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View Full Version : Facepalms and a GM's Lament 2



blackouttwo
2009-08-13, 04:53 PM
Because I couldn't find the other thread after about two weeks. :smallsmile:

OK, so, for those of you not familiar with my situation, it's this: My group consists of four players, one of which is more interested in video games or TV than in our D&D campaign, two more are always arguing or killing each-other's characters, or stealing from each-other, and the last guy is always getting torqued off because the aforementioned two-guys-that-argue do their thing all the time, thus slowing down the game. Respectively, they are(to you guys; I am not using their real names here)Andrew, Chris, Tyler, and Dylan.

I've spoken to Andrew and Tyler so far, and put some of the advice that the denizens of this fine forum have recommended(Note: Some), and have yet to get in touch with Chris yet. Dylan has not been heard from in two weeks, and missed the last session, and I will be speaking with Chris at the game in two days. Andrew is currently on a bit of a vacation, and out-of-state at the moment, so he will not be present.

Now, in short, Tyler wants a bit more roleplaying, and less fighting, and I am more than happy to oblige. Andrew wants a session to go by where Chris and Tyler aren't busy trying to kill each-other- Apparently, he goes to play video games and whatnot until it's his turn to roll because they do that. So, according to Dylan(Who's been saying this for a while) and Andrew, all the problems the group's been facing stem from Tyler and Chris' inability to stop fighting.

So, ideas on how I can get these two to quit it for more than five minutes? Because my next session is in two days.

The Glyphstone
2009-08-13, 04:59 PM
Have a talk with them. Explain that if they don't cut the bull-turds, they're not going to be able to play anymore...not because you're kicking them out, but since the group is just very likely to implode on itself due to their antics and the other two players sick of having to deal with it. If they keep it up, you're forced to pick between Tyler+Chris and Andrew+Dylan, and rather than do that, you'll just stop DMing entirely.

Or, start playing hardball IC with a series of overpowered enemies who show up, kill Tyler and Chris's characters specifically, then leave. Enough cryptic warnings about teamwork and enough dead characters, and maybe they'll get irritated enough to put aside their issues long enough to 'team up' against YOU, so to speak. Let them kill a few of the random dudes after that, then stop, and see if they've gotten into the habit of cooperating.

Kylarra
2009-08-13, 05:05 PM
yay forum search (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120186)

Your previous thread for reference. :smalltongue:

blackouttwo
2009-08-13, 05:07 PM
Many thanks. :smalltongue:

Glyphstone, that last bit is devious, and I shall consider it.

Umael
2009-08-13, 05:29 PM
Tread careful with this next bit of advice:

The trouble is with Chris and Taylor. The solution boils down to four:

1) Get them to pull their heads out of their respective you-know-whats. Continue playing with both of them.
2) Kick them out. They are both extremely-impolite-term-not-used-on-these-forums.
3) Tell Chris to take-a-long-walk-off-a-short-dock. Favor Taylor because he is worth favoring.
4) Remove Tyler. Allow Chris to stick around.

Now... how viable are the latter two options.

Random832
2009-08-13, 05:34 PM
Also - don't be afraid to pull up and say "Uh, dudes, what in the hells are you doing?" e.g. for the city destruction incident you mentioned in the other thread.

Or even simple stuff like telling them "Um, why don't you search again - or take twenty?" Overpowered trap aside; doesn't change that from their point of view it looks like a flat dead end - nowhere to go from there, so what do they do now?

The thing is, it's a vicious cycle otherwise - Tyler wants more roleplaying, but if he expects to be bored, he might not give it a chance (as with the city thing)

Another_Poet
2009-08-13, 05:52 PM
After the polite talking-to is over, institute a policy that PC-vs-PC conflict (whether theft or attacks) will result in a 20% XP penalty to all involved PCs.

Make sure they know about this penalty beforehand.

Alejandro
2009-08-13, 06:25 PM
Wait until the two (stupid) players are having their PCs fight again, wait until (preferably) both of them are greatly weakened, and then have your campaign's villains (I assume there are some) launch an attack on them at that moment.

After all, if I was the bad guy, and the good guys were stupid enough to actually try to hurt each other, I would wait until a few of them were mangled, and then mercilessly kill them.

blackouttwo
2009-08-13, 07:20 PM
Alejandro, brilliant. Another_Poet, same for you. Both excellent pieces of advice. I shall do both.

Oh, and one thing that's actually slipped my mind, and might or might not be important: The thing with Tyler is that he's the group's host. He kind of can't be kicked out, at all...which might explain his typical attitude. As far as group relations go, Tyler's immune to anything we muster up to deal with his antics, and this might explain Chris' problem with him.

Thrawn183
2009-08-13, 07:37 PM
I favor a method of extemely low intensity controlled violence.

Possibilites include:
- Nerf guns to shoot them with when they start fighting.
- Ping pong balls to throw at them when they start fighting.
- Rubber dog toys to hit them with when they start fighting.
- Rolled up newspaper to hit them with when they start fighting.
- Fog horn. It's so loud it basically counts as violence.
- Whipping them with a towel (insert other cloth...textile)
- Squirt guns kept in the fridge so they're really, really really cold. If these fights are significant and you have time, you could just keep some ice water around to fill up the tank with.

Non-violent possibilities include:
- Standing up and turning off the lights.
- Walking outside and sitting on the front portch until they come and apologize.

These will all work best if sprung by surprise. Especially the fog horn and the ice water.

Triaxx
2009-08-13, 07:47 PM
Stop trying to be 'passive-aggressive' and as soon as the fighting starts, bang on the table as hard as you can manage. Once you've scared them with that, calmly explain that the in-fighting does not help anyone have any fun, and if it doesn't stop then the group is going to stop playing because no one wants to deal with the arguing.

In short, grow a pair and deal with it like a mature human being. If they won't be mature, it's your responsibility to not game with them.

Random832
2009-08-13, 07:48 PM
Oh, and one thing that's actually slipped my mind, and might or might not be important: The thing with Tyler is that he's the group's host.

Well - Tyler also says he wants more roleplaying and less fighting. I'd open with "then what was that when you killed every plot-important NPC in the entire city?"

But, yeah, that changes the dynamic a lot. You should talk to Chris privately first, not just at the session, if it's at all possible, and figure out what's going on with him.

Like I said before, it's possible they're too involved to realize what they're doing until the situation's deteriorated. At some point it's your responsibility to grind the game to a halt and shout "Hey! What do you think you're doing?"

I'd kill at least one of their characters, too. At this point it'd be too easy for either one of them to justify fighting as being their PC being mad at the other PC for the last incident. Make them roll new ones that don't know each other. Say, have them get attacked by a normally appropriate encounter when they're worn out from fighting each other. Maybe a colleague of that one dead wizard they killed. (maybe also bring back the wizard himself as a ghost - he'll have d12 hit dice instead of squishy D4s, a 50% miss chance, and can still cast a lot of his spells)

What are each of the four players' characters, and what was their role in their "rampage" through the city? It's easier to pull off if you can justify them being targeted over the other two.

blackouttwo
2009-08-16, 07:06 PM
Alright, well, news on the last session(and it's good news!).

I laid down the law with both of them- 'No more squabbling over loot, or slights that your characters have committed against each-other, no more fighting, and if you keep it up, I'll dock you XP, and have monsters single out your characters. Both of you.' Tyler(in a rare moment of brilliance) popped the idea of laying down a bunch of 'club bylaws' as he calls them. He explained them as basic rules everyone follows OOC and IC to help with roleplaying and gameplay in general. We spent a bit of the session outlining them, and then the rest of the session went by without a single fight or outburst between the two. Dylan was more than pleased as a result, and the whole group considers it the best session we've had in a while.

Just wait till Andrew gets back and hears this. :smallamused:

Another_Poet
2009-08-17, 12:04 AM
Alright, well, news on the last session(and it's good news!).

<awesome snipped>

Great! I hope it keeps up.

Also, a little bit of further advice... as much as it sounds like Tyler was very reasonable, it does worry me that since he's the host there is pressure to bow to his demands.

If I were you, I would work on gradually developing some other gaming venue besides just Tyler's place. It could be your house, a local coffee house, or ask your friendly local gaming store if they'd let you guys use a table once a week. If you're in college you can definitely get a room to use for a gaming group.

Wherever it might be, line somewhere else up. Maybe invite the group to try it out once or twice... "Hey guys, I found out we could use a classroom after hours! It has a whole chalkboard to put the maps on!" "Hey guys, let's run the game at my house this weekend... my parents are out of town and we can barbeque!" You get the idea.

You may never have to switch venues, if Tyler continues to be reasonable, but if you do have to switch... it's good to have options.

blackouttwo
2009-08-17, 09:50 AM
Great! I hope it keeps up.

Also, a little bit of further advice... as much as it sounds like Tyler was very reasonable, it does worry me that since he's the host there is pressure to bow to his demands.

If I were you, I would work on gradually developing some other gaming venue besides just Tyler's place. It could be your house, a local coffee house, or ask your friendly local gaming store if they'd let you guys use a table once a week. If you're in college you can definitely get a room to use for a gaming group.

Wherever it might be, line somewhere else up. Maybe invite the group to try it out once or twice... "Hey guys, I found out we could use a classroom after hours! It has a whole chalkboard to put the maps on!" "Hey guys, let's run the game at my house this weekend... my parents are out of town and we can barbeque!" You get the idea.

You may never have to switch venues, if Tyler continues to be reasonable, but if you do have to switch... it's good to have options.

Well, mostly we just go to his house because there's usually an abundance of soda and snacks, and his place is right in the middle of everyone else. IE. his house is the closest to everyone else's house. For the most part, to save time on the trip and money on gas and whatnot, everyone goes to Tyler's house. To be honest, it's for the best.