PDA

View Full Version : Unintended consequences? (3.5)



Harperfan7
2009-08-14, 03:39 AM
A high level arcane sorcerer or wizard can shapechange into a troll for...

+12 Str, +4 Dex, +12 Con
+5 Nat armor
Regeneration 5
Scent

...up to over 3 hours pre-epic. They can also planeshift to the positive energy plane to heal and (I think) gain a ton of temporary hp, which (I think) is up to twice your normal hp before exploding. Which, if I'm right about that, is several hundred, +regen 5.

What the hell?

Surely wizards knew about this kind of stuff.

daggaz
2009-08-14, 03:41 AM
Just... hit the search button up top, and type in "broken." That should just about cover it.

arguskos
2009-08-14, 03:42 AM
...eh? So what? It's just another reason sor/wiz spells tend towards busted. *shrug* The evidence is that WotC had no idea what they were doing when they made 3.5, for reasons such as you indicated.

PId6
2009-08-14, 03:42 AM
Yeah, wizards can also Shapechange into Dire Turtles all day with Foresight up while Astral Projecting from their own private demiplane. So no, I don't think WotC thought much about the full consequences of their spells.

Oh, and if you really want fun with trolls, Shapechange into one, then make yourself immune to Fire, Acid, and nonlethal damage. Add in a Death Ward and wahoo! I'm unkillable!

SparkMandriller
2009-08-14, 03:44 AM
Yeah, but a real roleplayer wouldn't cast spells like that. Real roleplayers just stick with magic missile. In every slot they have.

arguskos
2009-08-14, 03:46 AM
Yeah, but a real roleplayer wouldn't cast spells like that. Real roleplayers just stick with magic missile. In every slot they have.
That's because MM is obv OP, I mean, just look at it! It always hits. ALWAYS!! What were they thinking, you know? It's just SOOO overpowered for it's level. Totally needs a nerf.






/sarcasmsostrongithurttotype

mikej
2009-08-14, 03:49 AM
Yeah, but a real roleplayer wouldn't cast spells like that. Real roleplayers just stick with magic missile. In every slot they have.

Polymorph/Shapechange is very role-play riche :smallwink:

Fitz
2009-08-14, 09:11 AM
magic missile must be broken, its a lvl 1 game breaker ;-)!

Random832
2009-08-14, 10:32 AM
90d4+180? (http://boards1.wizards.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-873868) Of course Magic Missile is broken.

Moriato
2009-08-14, 11:11 AM
Oh, and if you really want fun with trolls, Shapechange into one, then make yourself immune to Fire, Acid, and nonlethal damage. Add in a Death Ward and wahoo! I'm unkillable!

How about a nercopolitan troll! Regeneration means that all damage dealt to him (except fire, acid, etc) is subdual damage, and undead are immune to subdual damage. Also immune to everything death ward would make them immune to and thensome. Just add fire and acid immunity and.... well then you only have to worry about a really nasty disintigrate, I guess.

Korivan
2009-08-14, 11:16 AM
Remember though, MM has been around and a level 1 spell since the start of DnD, long before metamagic and bonus spells, and all that other stuff. It wasn't broken before, they simply left things like MM, Time Stop, ShapeChange, Polymorph alone and forgot they gave casters 6.7 tons of new toys to enhance all of these things and more.

NEO|Phyte
2009-08-14, 11:21 AM
How about a nercopolitan troll! Regeneration means that all damage dealt to him (except fire, acid, etc) is subdual damage, and undead are immune to subdual damage. Also immune to everything death ward would make them immune to and thensome. Just add fire and acid immunity and.... well then you only have to worry about a really nasty disintigrate, I guess.

Need a Con score to have regeneration.

Tengu_temp
2009-08-14, 11:46 AM
Surely wizards knew about this kind of stuff.

You're giving them too much credit.

Moriato
2009-08-14, 02:05 PM
Need a Con score to have regeneration.

Stupid regeneration loopsholes. Anyne know a way to get immunity to subdual damage without losing your con score?

Eloel
2009-08-14, 02:06 PM
There's some feat or spell somewhere that lets you live below -10 HP. That basically let's you ignore non-lethal damage for a while.

hamishspence
2009-08-14, 02:10 PM
Warforged Juggernaut gains immunity to non-lethal damage at 1st level, without losing its Constitution.

skeeter_dan
2009-08-14, 03:27 PM
Unfortunately, you can't be both a Troll and a Warforged Juggernaut...

quick_comment
2009-08-14, 03:28 PM
Unfortunately, you can't be both a Troll and a Warforged Juggernaut...

You can shapechange into a troll though, and you get to keep your class abilities.

hamishspence
2009-08-14, 03:34 PM
Renegade Mastermaker PRC (Magic of Eberron) allows any humanoid to become a warforged for the purpose of taking PRCs- so you could begin as a human, take Renegade Mastermaker, then take Warforged Juggernaut.

Warforged Juggernaut shapeshifting into Troll seems like the closest optioin though.

Yzzyx
2009-08-14, 03:42 PM
Stupid regeneration loopsholes. Anyne know a way to get immunity to subdual damage without losing your con score?

The Pale Master prestige class gets it, I believe.

Sliver
2009-08-14, 03:46 PM
A high level arcane sorcerer or wizard can shapechange into a troll for...

+12 Str, +4 Dex, +12 Con
+5 Nat armor
Regeneration 5
Scent

...up to over 3 hours pre-epic. They can also planeshift to the positive energy plane to heal and (I think) gain a ton of temporary hp, which (I think) is up to twice your normal hp before exploding. Which, if I'm right about that, is several hundred, +regen 5.

What the hell?

Surely wizards knew about this kind of stuff.

Why you go around inventing stuff? Nothing you stated exists.. Wizards are blasters, end of story.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-08-14, 04:07 PM
Nonlethal immunity: Favor of the Martyr(Pal 4, SpC).

I smell artificer.

Eldariel
2009-08-14, 08:00 PM
Nonlethal immunity: Favor of the Martyr(Pal 4, SpC).

I smell artificer.

I smell an Archivist.

Skorj
2009-08-14, 08:15 PM
That's because MM is obv OP, I mean, just look at it! It always hits. ALWAYS!! What were they thinking, you know? It's just SOOO overpowered for it's level. Totally needs a nerf.

/sarcasmsostrongithurttotype

I'm laughing, because MM was about the best spell under level 5 in 1E. If I could have taken it in all my level 1-3, spells slots (maybe 1-4) it would have been a real consideration. MM, chromatic orb (once you got the "Stun no save" orb), and color spray were remarkably powerful in 1E.

But then, in 1E a blaster caster made sense.

Frosty
2009-08-14, 08:38 PM
What other spells or effects render you immune to non-lethal damage?

olentu
2009-08-14, 08:43 PM
What other spells or effects render you immune to non-lethal damage?

I think that veil of undeath makes one immune to nonlethal damage.

Dhavaer
2009-08-14, 09:08 PM
What other spells or effects render you immune to non-lethal damage?

There's a PrC called Bone Guard or something like that. I think it might be from Eberron.

olentu
2009-08-14, 09:24 PM
There's a PrC called Bone Guard or something like that. I think it might be from Eberron.

Are you thinking of the bone knight prestige class from the five nations book. And if you are no then the bone knight's Improved bonecraft armor does grant immunity to nonlethal damage.

Xenogears
2009-08-15, 04:05 AM
Need a Con score to have regeneration.

Tell that to WoTC: They seem to have forgotten about that rule...

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/abomination.htm#atropal

olentu
2009-08-15, 04:22 AM
Tell that to WoTC: They seem to have forgotten about that rule...

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/abomination.htm#atropal

I do not think it was a rule in 3.0.

hamishspence
2009-08-15, 04:43 AM
Back then, non-lethal was called subdual.

I think the key feature here is its an abomination- all of which are described as having regeneration.

Also, in MM and DMG 3.0, it doesn't say anything about it requiring a CON.

Handling Atropals in 3.5 may require houseruling- either it can be knocked unconscious with non-lethal damage, or, like other undead, its completely immune, requiring weapons that overcome its regeneration to damage it at all, or, replace regeneration with fast healing.