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Jair Barik
2009-08-14, 04:56 AM
Skum are Aboleth slaves but what exactly are they and where do they come from? It seems as if they are created but the specifics of this are a bit vague in the monster manual and though alluded to in LoM are still very vague.

IMO it seems as though the most likely explanations are
-Skum are crossbreeds between Aboleths and Humanoids
-Skum are humanoids transformed by Aboleth slime
-Skum are Humanoids bred with Skum (origin?)
-Skum are a seperate race that can interbreed with all other humanoids to produce more Skum

it doesn't matter that they are the natural slaves of the Aboleths but I'm really curious as to if anyone has the answer to this question in any splat books or articles or anything

kamikasei
2009-08-14, 05:05 AM
-Skum are humanoids transformed by Aboleth slime

I had always thought this was explicitly stated to be so, but can't find a reference now that I look. Maybe it's in Lords of Madness.

Jair Barik
2009-08-14, 05:08 AM
I have checked in both and can't find it
MM refers to the slime causing a transformation but doesn't explicitly state that this actually leads to the formation of Skum (no crunch that says so under th Aboleth). LoM actually implies this to not be the case as though it also refers to slime causing "a transformation" it also refers to Aboleths as using humanoid females as "incubators" for new skum.

BobVosh
2009-08-14, 05:08 AM
They are from Mos Eisley.


Mos Eisley spaceport: You will never find a more wretched hive of scumSkum and villainy

*P.s. I have no clue*

arguskos
2009-08-14, 05:11 AM
The MM seems fairly explicit to me: "Skum are misbegotten creatures created by Aboleths... derived from human stock...." I did a bit of snipping, but really? What more do you want to know? Their shoe size? :smallwink:

The phrase "derived from human stock" heavily implies breeding programs by Aboleths on humans.

From Lords of Madness: "The closest analogy in human society is the collection and breeding of warhorses." So, from this we can further deduce that aboleths breed humans together after having altered them somehow to create skum. Ta-da, question answered.

Jair Barik
2009-08-14, 05:13 AM
They are from Mos Eisley.



*P.s. I have no clue*

http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/1617.html

hehe

But seriously this does bug me a bit. It seems logical that the slime should transform people to skum but that seems flawed by WotC logic and books. All other cases of such things (undead such as ghouls, vampires, shadows etc.) that turn people to other creatures state so clearly as an attacks effect and you'd also expect Skum to be a template if this were the case due to the variety of creatures that could be effected

edit. thx arguskos that does look to answer the question pretty well. which page of LoM is that?

arguskos
2009-08-14, 05:16 AM
Pg 31. Right column, top of the page.

It's basically what I see as an acceptable level of detail. I don't need to know more about how to make skum, of all things. :smallwink:

kamikasei
2009-08-14, 05:20 AM
It's basically what I see as an acceptable level of detail. I don't need to know more about how to make skum, of all things.

"By foul craft Saruman has crossed orcs with goblin men. He's breeding an army in the caverns of Isengard..."

"How exactly? Do you have detailed descriptions? Diagrams? Hold nothing back!"

Jair Barik
2009-08-14, 05:21 AM
Yeah. I was just curious about how stupid it seemed. I assumed it must have been considered to be "too adult" to be outright printed but then elsewhere theres things equally bad if not worse (where baby mindflayers come from and creatures such as the Forsaken shell in LM spring to mind)

Myshlaevsky
2009-08-14, 05:21 AM
"By foul craft Saruman has crossed orcs with goblin men. He's breeding an army in the caverns of Isengard..."

"How exactly? Do you have detailed descriptions? Diagrams? Hold nothing back!"

"I'm uh, I'm... starting to think maybe you weren't the right hobbit for this quest, Frodo.

Jair Barik
2009-08-14, 05:23 AM
Hmmm perhaps the Simpsons holds the answer to this! maybe the Aboleths use methods similar to those of Homers attempt to breed the cat and dog together or Barts attempt to breed a Lizard with a hamster

Salt_Crow
2009-08-14, 05:27 AM
I always regarded them as something akin to the Deep Ones in the Cthulhu Mythos. I remember seeing somewhere that Kuo-toas fit the description better, but I beg to differ. At least the Innsmouth folks if not the original Deep Ones themselves would be more Skum than Kuo-toa IMO.

JeenLeen
2009-08-14, 09:18 AM
It is said that owlbears were created, not by breeding per se, but by magical manipulation of the original races.

I could see Skum as being created through aboleth magic combined with breeding programs. Essentially, a wizard did it.

Leewei
2009-08-14, 09:55 AM
It is said that owlbears were created, not by breeding per se, but by magical manipulation of the original races.

Ah, the magic of malted liquor!

Kris Strife
2009-08-14, 10:04 AM
Ah, the magic of malted liquor!

Beer! Beer! Beer!

Back on topic: they're newt people based on the MM picture. :smalltongue:

CockroachTeaParty
2009-08-14, 10:20 AM
Actually, the story is considerably darker than that.

If you read the mini-adventure in Lords of Madness, 'The God Under the Lake,' it is mentioned that Zlorthishen (the aboleth) keeps a breeding chamber within his lair. There, unlucky female denizens of a nearby town are used as incubators for new skum. The birthing process is "nearly always fatal."

The question becomes how are these poor humans impregnated? Do other skum breed with them? I personally think that the aboleths themselves do the impregnating.

Under the entry for the aboleth reproductive system, it is mentioned that aboleths possess both male and female reproductive organs. They fertilize their eggs by producing a stream of fluid. Perhaps they implant aboleth eggs in humans, or cover their tentacles with their spunk and get... uh... Japanese.

Regardless of what actually happens, it's truly a horrible fate. I think it's left up to the DM's imagination, but whatever happens, apparently it's alien, horrible, and fatal.

Jair Barik
2009-08-14, 10:27 AM
There, unlucky female denizens of a nearby town are used as incubators for new skum. The birthing process is "nearly always fatal."

Thats something I alluded too earlier but was unsure on how much quotation is considered "infringement of copyright."

That is the part that really seemed to screw over the slime theory along with the Skum's description of being "derived from human stock."

Current theory then is either... Aboleth crossbreeds with humanoids or Aboleth slimes humanoids which are then bred with other slimed humanoids or with other SKum to produce more Skum

kamikasei
2009-08-14, 10:34 AM
I would definitely say the slime idea is a better theory than the crossbreeding angle. It maintains Skum as entirely distinct from aboleths rather than lesser cousins or indeed related in any way except as resources. I just see that as more appropriate (issues of which is the more disgusting or horrifying option being entirely beside the point). It's also more in keeping with the comments about horse breeding.

It also serves to set aboleths and illithid apart, as illithid, a race that reproduces via parasitism, sometimes create specialized slaves by implanting larvae in unsuitable hosts. Seems like better worldbuilding if aboleths keep themselves entirely pure and their servitors are lesser races who they've warped.

Jair Barik
2009-08-14, 10:41 AM
It also serves to set aboleths and illithid apart, as illithid, a race that reproduces via parasitism, sometimes create specialized slaves by implanting larvae in unsuitable hosts. Seems like better worldbuilding if aboleths keep themselves entirely pure and their servitors are lesser races who they've warped.

very good point, especially as Aboleths look down upon the God's to some extent. It also explains the whole "all Skum are the same no matter what the stock is" thing to some extent.
I assume by specialised Illithid slaves your referring to Urophion's?

kamikasei
2009-08-14, 10:46 AM
I assume by specialised Illithid slaves your referring to Urophion's?

Yes, though I couldn't remember the name (those are the half-illithid ropers, right?)

I think there are supposed to be others along those lines, although it may just have been a statement in the half-illithid template's entry saying that they were sometimes experiments in creating specialized servitors (or even superior hosts), rather than being a real fixture of illithid society.

Jair Barik
2009-08-14, 11:30 AM
Yep their the ropers.

I don't have access to either of the psionics books but Illithid wise LoM has Urophions (Illithid half breeds), the 3 illithidae (illithid pets/wildlife), Elder brain (Illithid leader) and 3 variations upon regular Mind flayers (vamp, lich and Ulitharid)

Unfortunately the book lacks anything stat wise on Skum and aboleths in general (having only the Shaboath, a couple of low detail Aboleth variants, and the Aboleth Savant class) so it offers very little information on the origins of Skum. is there anything regarding Aboleths and Skum in EP or CP?

Yora
2009-08-14, 01:35 PM
Well it's D&D different books, especially from different editions, are often not too consistent.