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Froogleyboy
2009-08-14, 05:59 PM
Okay I am in middle school and want to start a rpg game amongst my peers, the problem is that everyone I know is jocks (my school is a "Football players = good, Smart people = bad) I've tried my friendly local gaming store but no one there wants me involved in there games (I'm only now getting into the "In crowd within it) because I'm young I'm not taken seriously there. So, How would I go about this?

Origomar
2009-08-14, 06:27 PM
First things first, there are no jocks in middle school.


and bump

Froogleyboy
2009-08-14, 06:29 PM
. . . yeah . . . there are a lot (and in my school, middle school and high school are the same. I just used that term for those unaware)

Roboghostpirate
2009-08-14, 06:54 PM
Just because they're jocks doesn't mean they won't be interested, you might be able to find a couple willing to play depending on the type of games you like. They might not be into roleplaying, but they might be willing to try it if it mostly involves kicking in doors and killing things.

If that doesn't work you could always try a PbP game. I'm sure you can find a game in this forum's PBP section.

Froogleyboy
2009-08-14, 06:55 PM
True but the jocks at my school are jerks.They all insult me and one burned my 2E books

blazinghand
2009-08-14, 07:03 PM
Wow. Someone burning your 2E books is amazingly bad. As a youth, I didn't bring my D&D books / Gameboy / Trading cards and what have you to school for fear that something like that might happen.

The easiest thing would be to play in a campaign on the message boards, and keep an eye open for people around school who may be interested. Not all jocks are going to be mean, and even if you can't find anyone who already plays D&D, you may be able to talk some of your friends who play RPG video and computer games into giving it a try.

Sanguine
2009-08-14, 07:06 PM
Wow. Someone burning your 2E books is amazingly bad. As a youth, I didn't bring my D&D books / Gameboy / Trading cards and what have you to school for fear that something like that might happen.

The easiest thing would be to play in a campaign on the message boards, and keep an eye open for people around school who may be interested. Not all jocks are going to be mean, and even if you can't find anyone who already plays D&D, you may be able to talk some of your friends who play RPG video and computer games into giving it a try.


This.G.I. Joe

Myatar_Panwar
2009-08-14, 07:54 PM
Try visiting your gaming store more often. Joke with the locals or whatever, prove you can be mature despite your age.

Though playing with your school peers is definitely preferable if you can manage it.

Skorj
2009-08-14, 08:09 PM
Try visiting your gaming store more often. Joke with the locals or whatever, prove you can be mature despite your age.

Though playing with your school peers is definitely preferable if you can manage it.

I have found that maturity of gamers is not strongly correlated with age. Gaming is full of tall children, and mature youngsters. You might be better off looking for a group that matche your maturity level than your age.

valadil
2009-08-14, 08:47 PM
Wow. Those sounds like some serious jocks you got going on there.

When I got to middle school I was a nerd and knew nothing of gaming. Each day I sat at a different lunch table only to be told I wasn't welcome back there afterward. One day I sat where people were playing RPGs and trading Magic cards. I never left :-)

I didn't mean to sound so tragic about it. The point I wanted to make is that you should find other people interested in gaming. Maybe they won't be so overt as to play Magic at lunch, but you should be able to find someone reading a copy of The Hobbit between classes or doodling swords and axes in their notebook. Befriend those people and game with them.

I've seen some prejudice against younger kids at game stores too. My advice there is to become a regular. You want to go in and the people at the store will see Froogleyboy instead of some random kid. Achieve this and you'll be welcome in their games.

Froogleyboy
2009-08-14, 08:52 PM
I've been playing there for two years now. I go every Friday from 5 till 10 and people are just now remembering my name

Elfin
2009-08-14, 09:11 PM
It's a start.

Scarlet Tropix
2009-08-14, 09:17 PM
If you actually know groups that think you're too young, ask them how you can prove that you actually know the game and you're serious about playing. If it's actually your age that's the problem, try overcoming their disinclination and proving that you're the real deal.

And if that doesn't work there's always online groups.

sofawall
2009-08-14, 09:29 PM
Man, I love when people assume I must not know a game as complex as D&D just from my age... It's not as bad now, but 2 years ago (yes, I'm young enough for 2 years to be significant) people assumed I wasn't mentally able to learn the game.

I then proceeded to make a god wizard at a table where everyone thought Barbarians were pretty hot stuff. I got that character banned, but I got gamer-cred in the process :D

Froogleyboy
2009-08-15, 12:44 AM
My principal agreed to let me put up fliers. What should they say?

Scarlet Tropix
2009-08-15, 02:55 AM
Ooh, fliers.

I've been thinking about trying that myself.

As to what it should say, I'd just be simple and say something like "DM looking for players for Dungeons and Dragons campaign. Ideally line out where you stand on hack n' slash vs roleplay and how to contact you for further information. And if you fear jock retaliation, don't list your name, just number.

oxinabox
2009-08-15, 03:09 AM
I don't know what middle school is, (in Australia, we hav eprimairy school, and highscholl (which is lower high school, then senior highschool, but it's one place)

If it corresponds to year 8-10, i guess.

I suggest not running at school
Run it after school, with your friends.

Most friends will give a group activity a try, no matter how bad it sounds, cos their friends

If it's like nearly old enoguh to go to university, then take up with the universitiy gaming club at the uni you plan to go to.
In Australia at least it's perfectly allowed (if not common,)

oxinabox
2009-08-15, 03:20 AM
Ooh, fliers.

And if you fear jock retaliation, don't list your name, just number.

DOn't list your number.
don't even list your email.
Create a New Email at hotmail or gmail or whatever just for this

Lord Loss
2009-08-15, 07:01 AM
Ask your friends.. Here's how my D&D Group started:

First Month after I got my rulebooks: No one likes D&D....

Me: Hey,Jackson I found this game called Dungeon and Dragons it's a rol-

Jackson: You know DND!!! OMG!!! NICE! Let's go make a dungeon!

***
A little while later:

Me: Chatting about new dungeon with Jackson...

Fred: Tu connais D et D?! (French for you know D&D)

Me: Ouais... (French for yeah...)

Fred: NICE!

And that's how my group started... more people came, left, came, left, got kicked out...

Middle school = Grade 7-11 where I am.

The Dark Fiddler
2009-08-15, 07:11 AM
I was in pretty much the same position as you. The only thing that got me playing was the fact that my friends were interested. I did talk about it often, but not that many people cared for it after I explained what it was, other than my friends.

Basically, see if any of your friends would be interested. If not, ask around I guess.

As for the jocks insulting and burning books; surely that's against your school's rules? If somebody burnt my books, I'd make sure they got suspended, at the very least (if it happened at school). I'd probably try to get the law on them as well, but I've been told I try to use the law too much.

oxinabox
2009-08-15, 07:51 AM
If some one burnt my books i'ld be on to the police.
Books worth ~$AU50 (and older ones are irreplaceable)
so 2 books PHP and DMG $AU100.

If Someone stole you $100 watch,
and you know who it was, wouldn't you tell the police?
Shops report shoplifting of $30 or less, why shouldn't individuals.

Heck when my little brother was in Priamiry school he was reprted to the cops for swearing at a teacher.
Breaking the has no place in a school.


Sorry for the Off topic

Jalor
2009-08-15, 09:44 AM
In America, middle school is either 6th-8th grade or 7th-9th grade.


As for the jocks insulting and burning books; surely that's against your school's rules? If somebody burnt my books, I'd make sure they got suspended, at the very least (if it happened at school). I'd probably try to get the law on them as well, but I've been told I try to use the law too much.

Unfortunately, this is not a viable solution in most American schools. Rules are almost never enforced in middle and high schools unless physical fighting happens in plain sight during school hours. Even then, a star player on a sports team is above the law. Middle school is just about as lawless as the Wild West, and even more hostile because everyone wants to prove to their friends how badass they are.

No teacher is going to waste their time listening to your problems unless their job is on the line. The administrators would brush you off, and the cops would just laugh. Relying on the authorities is never a solution unless you end up with some kind of bodily injury that they could get sued over.

On topic, I'd recommend looking for a group in that gaming store. I was only 13 when I first played M:TG with my current group, and I joined a D&D game of theirs a year later. At first nobody took me seriously, but I just had to earn their respect. I'm still in high school and the only one under 18 in the group, but it doesn't matter. Everyone in the store knows me, and I'm more well received than many older gamers.. It probably helps that many of the adults there are immature and annoying, so I end up looking Wise Beyond My Years when I'm probably not.

As long as you don't act needy, hyperactive, whiny, or overly dramatic, you should be fine.

Scarlet Tropix
2009-08-15, 09:52 AM
In America, middle school is either 6th-8th grade or 7th-9th grade.



Unfortunately, this is not a viable solution in most American schools. Rules are almost never enforced in middle and high schools unless physical fighting happens in plain sight during school hours. Even then, a star player on a sports team is above the law. Middle school is just about as lawless as the Wild West, and even more hostile because everyone wants to prove to their friends how badass they are.

No teacher is going to waste their time listening to your problems unless their job is on the line. The administrators would brush you off, and the cops would just laugh. Relying on the authorities is never a solution unless you end up with some kind of bodily injury that they could get sued over.


How unfortunate is it that this is so often the way things are? I wouldn't lay a blanket statement on things like that though, because there are schools with staff that will help if things get ugly. It really depends on where you are and how well you and your parents get on with the staff around there. The Principal can't be that bad if he/she is going to let you put up fliers for the game.

I stick by the original plan with the fliers, and what oxinabox said makes a good deal of sense.

Froogleyboy
2009-08-15, 10:06 AM
Jalor is right on the money. Thats how it is in my school

evil-frosty
2009-08-15, 10:25 AM
Going into the rules not enforced at schools in America. I go to a Benedictine school and the rules are enforced somewhat. The favoritism is still there. Jock that can dunk vs. the nerd in the corner? Teachers will pick the jock most likely but there are some better teachers who wont automatically believe the jock over the nerd. So it isnt as bad besides that the only problem i have is all the rich snobs who i want to deck as i am sorta the hick to them which i find funny at times.


Back on subject, the fliers are a good idea but make a special email account like oxinabox said. Also look for nicer people who might be willing to give it a try. But dont try to force something on them or your favorite play style as they might prefer something else. You can teach them using your favorite play style but always be open to their suggestions.

Side note i was 5 years old when i learned to play DnD 2nd ed. It was great, I became literate and could do basic math faster then anyone else in my class. Of course when i played with my dad it was more of my dwarf smashing some gobbo which is what i called goblins. Very little role-playing.

Captain Alien
2009-08-15, 10:25 AM
Why did you have to use the word "jocks"? I didn't know what it meant, so I searched on Google Images. And SafeSearch was not on :smallannoyed:

My suggestion is this: If there are smart people and jerks in your school, try to talk to those smart guys. The less popular, I guess (This works like that in American Films, does it not?). Then you show them D&D, and they will like it because they are smart. And smart people like D&D.

I had no problem to achieve what you are now looking for, but my situation was different. When I was at school, my class had always had less boys than girls, and every each boy played football. Except me, of course, because I hate football. Anyway, those boys also played videogames. And one of them was one of the most intelligent guys I have ever known. So it was not really a problem. I told them about roleplaying and they were interested. So I made my first roleplaying campaign when I was 11, and it lasted less than a year. It was not even D&D at all.

But you don't seem to have that kind of classmates, so you will have to do something more clever than what I had to do.

evil-frosty
2009-08-15, 10:27 AM
Alien i am sorry you had to search that, my imagination is telling me it would be bad. Next time i suggest asking instead of searching as you dont know what will come up.

Elderac
2009-08-15, 10:31 AM
On another tangent, perhaps you can help start a "Game Club" as an after school activity (and advertise that on your flyers).

You may have to find a sympathetic teacher as a club sponsor to "supervise" if it is an after school activity. Not to stereotype, but the most likely candidates would be the younger male teachers who teach stuff like math and science, but who do not do double duty as a sports coach. It is possible that they play or have played RPG's.

You may have to start out with traditional board games (although it is possible the school already has a chess club). Once the group is established, you might try board games that are less traditional and have a fantasy flair to them. Then ease on into CCG's, and gradually work your way up to RPG's. Reading through this thread, I saw several folks that found DnD players through MTG games. Perhaps once the group has gained membership and legitimacy, you could rebrand it as a RPG club or DnD club, although leaving it as a generic gaming club does have the advantage of bringing new people in who might not otherwise be exposed to your hobby.

I don't know how many years you have left in middle school, but if you have more than this current year left, you could build a foundation that would last for years to come. With any luck, the foundation you build will carry on after you move on to high school. Then, perhaps you could mine that resource later (as long as you remember where you came from and don't suddenly think it isn't cool to associate with middle schoolers) and find new gamers as others move on.

In any case, it would help the hobby and others who find themselves in your position. There may more out there than you imagine, especially if you attend a larger school.

Also consider simultaneously posting a flyer at the local gaming store. After all, if there are other players at your school, there is a fair chance they get their gaming supplies at the same place. Say something like, "Student at XYZ Middle School seeks others for DnD game." Leave an e-mail address as a contact, perhaps one created for that purpose as someone suggested.

If you put up a flyer there, make it neat looking. I recommend using a computer and printer to create it. A well produced flyer adds legitimacy and seems more serious than something that is quickly scrawled on a crumpled piece of paper. Proper spelling and punctuation help as well.

Your chances of finding others will likely increase if you are willing to be the GM. (Not having to be perfect as a GM is another whole topic.) If you are willing to do so, make it clear on the announcement that you are a GM looking for players.

This is kind of a long post, but I hope there are some ideas in here that will help you. My school days are in the past and I didn't have the opportunity to play RPG's with my school friends. I think that you will find among those you find to game with some lifeling friends.

Jalor
2009-08-15, 11:07 AM
How unfortunate is it that this is so often the way things are? I wouldn't lay a blanket statement on things like that though, because there are schools with staff that will help if things get ugly.
I've been to seven or eight different schools, and I've never found one with more than one or two teachers who were willing to go out of their way to help me. Many of the teachers were nice enough people who weren't willing to stick their neck out for some kid they didn't know.


It really depends on where you are and how well you and your parents get on with the staff around there.
Translation: How rich and influential your parents are, and how much ass you kiss.


The Principal can't be that bad if he/she is going to let you put up fliers for the game.
Answering "yes" to a question is one thing. Actually disciplining athletes and risking the ire of their coaches, teammates, and doting parents? Another thing entirely.

Seriously, middle school sucks. Just about nobody is mature enough to be worth talking to, and the Adults Are Useless (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AdultsAreUseless). Your best bet is to join a group at the gaming store. Don't start a club. It's okay in high school, but middle school is where people say and do the things they regret for the rest of their lives (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TeensAreMonsters). People will seek out your meetings and heckle you en masse.

Odds are they'll rip up your character sheets or break your miniatures too. I'll never forget the short-lived Warhammer club someone tried to start at my former middle school.

Scarlet Tropix
2009-08-15, 11:14 AM
I would like to point out that I never kissed ass. My father is a prosecutor, they kiss my ass. ^ ^

That doesn't render your point invalid, but again, while public schools might be horrifying cesspools of humanity, private/charter schools often have RIGIDLY enforced codes of conduct and will often punish anyone for any reason.

He never mentioned which he goes to.

Froogleyboy
2009-08-15, 11:23 AM
I go to public school

What should the headline say?

Scarlet Tropix
2009-08-15, 11:43 AM
That is a good question that I actually cannot think of a proper answer to.

Quincunx
2009-08-15, 12:28 PM
If you do the double-pronged flyers, the ones at the game store should ask for advice and support from high schoolers. It'll be kids talking to slightly older kids, easier to relate, harder for suspicious people to view it as access to middle schoolers.

Either you can focus the flyers with "D&D!" and run on the strengths (and weaknesses) of its reputation, saving the rest of the space for cool descriptions of what kind of game you want to run, or you can focus on "Roleplaying Club!" and talk about 'people who want to step off the pixelated path of computer games and find their own way' without mentioning those three letters.


Why did you have to use the word "jocks"? I didn't know what it meant, so I searched on Google Images. And SafeSearch was not on :smallannoyed:. . .

Now, what have we learned about doing a text-based search first? . . .:smallwink:

Captain Alien
2009-08-15, 04:58 PM
Well, if your school is big, saying "DM looks for players for a D&D campaign" should be enough, because many poeple will know about D&D, and those "jocks" (Damn word) won't know what it is.



...I will use the online dictionary next time.

Froogleyboy
2009-08-15, 05:21 PM
. . . what if its only a 1A school?

blazinghand
2009-08-15, 05:35 PM
I'm sorry, what is a 1A school?

Quincunx
2009-08-15, 05:35 PM
Then you define what a 1A school is for everyone not from your school district and/or state and why you think this will have an impact on flyer readership.

Froogleyboy
2009-08-15, 05:39 PM
He said if its a big school, a 1A school means only about 1000 people in the school (That is elementary, middle, and high school together)

blazinghand
2009-08-15, 05:46 PM
Even with a relatively small school, you only need a small number of people interested in playing to start a game, and they don't all have to be in your grade; maybe somebody a year ahead or behind you would be interested as well?

I think Elderac has a good idea. Play several board games in a club scenario, and see who there would be interested in an RPG. Also, there are likely other students who play other games that would be interested in a d20 game. Have you seen students playing MTG or talking about war games at school? These are possible players also.

oxinabox
2009-08-15, 11:20 PM
hmm yeah, Wargamers!
I remeber at scholl (only 3 or four years ago now)
People talked about Warhammer.
But no one had even heard of Dnd.

fetfet
2009-08-15, 11:59 PM
I went (and go) to a middle/high school just like this. I found the people who played videogames. I then asked them if they'd like to try something new. I now have (for the moment) friends, who game together.

The trick is to appeal to the things they already like. For example, when I found these kids, I told them all about the combat, and introduced the roleplaying after.

Captain Alien
2009-08-16, 06:06 AM
I went (and go) to a middle/high school just like this. I found the people who played videogames. I then asked them if they'd like to try something new. I now have (for the moment) friends, who game together.

The trick is to appeal to the things they already like. For example, when I found these kids, I told them all about the combat, and introduced the roleplaying after.

Exactly. They like WoW? Well, D&D system is better! They like smashing goblins? Well, in D&D there are many ways you can do it. Even if they prefer WoW system, they won't be able to refuse a game that allows you to do anything you can imagine. Videogames cannot beat that.

Some of them may not like it, but if you can stay with three of them, you can play anyway.

Haven
2009-08-16, 06:17 AM
They burned your books? That's, uh, pretty serious. You really should talk to a teacher, your family or even the police. But it sounds like the school is a rather hostile environment--instead of putting up flyers I'd recommend hanging out at the local games store instead, and maybe occasionally asking a friend or two if they'd like to come along sometime.

Froogleyboy
2009-08-16, 10:15 AM
I know several people who play WoW (and even Baldurs Gate) but they all say that tabletop is "Gay"

Jalor
2009-08-16, 10:24 AM
He said if its a big school, a 1A school means only about 1000 people in the school (That is elementary, middle, and high school together)
Egad, where the hell do you live? All the schools together are only 1000 kids? I've seen schools with more than 1000 freshmen.


I know several people who play WoW (and even Baldurs Gate) but they all say that tabletop is "Gay"
Middle schoolers are too closed-minded to try anything their friends wouldn't approve of, whether it's RPGs or homosexuality. *sigh* Kids these days...

Seriously, don't try to start a club. They will not stop until your spirit is broken and crushed. And your miniatures, if you use any. Find a group at the game store.

Eldan
2009-08-16, 10:58 AM
Actually, 1000 people seems like a normal number for a non-gymnasium school to me... elementary schools around here tend to have maybe two classes of every grade, so even when they lump several schools together, there are rarely more than a few hundred students.

Decoy Lockbox
2009-08-16, 03:22 PM
I started playing D&D when I was 12. We had a gaming club back in middle school, too. We weren't allowed to advertise it as a D&D club, due to the anti-D&D sentiment that was still around at the time. So we advertised it as a boardgaming club, and we had people playing Risk and Backgammon in the background while we went about our business of orc slaying and door kicking. It worked out pretty well, except for that one day where some random jerks came in and starting harassing the people playing Risk.

But seriously, f*ck middle school. Everything that Jalor said is 100% true for the Middle School I attended to. They don't care about the kids unless there is a legal liability or someone is about to bring in a gun and shoot up the place.

Umael
2009-08-16, 06:31 PM
Just a few thoughts.

1) Middle school was decades ago for me. It was about as bad back then as it is now, judging from the reactions I'm reading.
2) Ideally, you won't start a game in a middle school. You won't have to. That is because, ideally, in a perfect world, if everything was flawless, you would just have enough friends nearby to invite over and get a game going. Barring that, you could go to your local gaming store and join a game that is already going OR get people interested in your game.
3) If you must start a game in middle school, I recommend advertising it as a "Gaming Society", where people can play board games, card games, war games, role-playing games, and such. Try to get a teacher to sponsor it or otherwise be there as a deterrent against bullies showing up and harassing people who join.
4) I know that nothing I have said is actually new and unique, just tainted with age.

sofawall
2009-08-16, 07:05 PM
Heh, I found people who play D&D fairly easily, but I had three things going for me.

1) I'm big enough so most people don't want to pick on me physically.
2) I'm thick-skinned enough so people who harass me verbally don't really bother me.
3) I go to a high school with over 1500 people. (A lot for where I live)

All these thing together meant that if I carried, say, the Player's Handbook fairly prominently, people who already played D&D approached me.

I also was the one who introduced a few of my buddies to D&D, then they found out they had friends who had played, and the friends of friends played...

There's a fairly large network of D&D at my school :D

sebsmith
2009-08-16, 07:49 PM
If the Froogleyboy's stated location is right, he's in upstate rural white Alabama. I'm curious how he even found out about the game himself? But yeah, I'd keep trying to get into a gaming group at the local game store, the fact you have progressed as far as you have shows it does seem to work. You could also try an online game.

Good luck.

Jalor
2009-08-16, 08:07 PM
If the Froogleyboy's stated location is right, he's in upstate rural white Alabama.

It's a common misconception that that region of North America is part of the US. It is, in fact, one of the Infinite Layers of the Abyss. It is ruled by Yeenoghu, and there's a good chance the jocks in your school are actually shaved Gnolls. Do any of them have canine features, eat dog food, or have Monstrous Humanoid hit dice? If so, I recommend taking a level in a full-BAB class in order to survive the remainder of middle school.

You can't rely on a teacher to keep order in a gaming club. The Warhammer incident occurred within eight feet of a teacher who was too absorbed in a romance novel to do anything more than scold the offenders halfheartedly.

NorseItalian
2009-08-17, 12:28 AM
Make friends with the nerds.
Honestly, they don't bite.
The ones who will be willing to play ARE there, they're just hiding.
Try the Drama department

- From Someone who set up a D&D group in 9th grade by pestering his Drama club and Robotics club friends.

Gamgee
2009-08-17, 01:22 AM
Wow. Someone burning your 2E books is amazingly bad. As a youth, I didn't bring my D&D books / Gameboy / Trading cards and what have you to school for fear that something like that might happen.

The easiest thing would be to play in a campaign on the message boards, and keep an eye open for people around school who may be interested. Not all jocks are going to be mean, and even if you can't find anyone who already plays D&D, you may be able to talk some of your friends who play RPG video and computer games into giving it a try.

I did, but thankfully I had the strength to back myself up if they ****ed with me. Then again I come from a decent school and doing something like that is practically unheard of.

Also thankfully here we have a friendly gaming shop, and despite never going I am constantly being invited to just go there and sit down to play some games with the owners and any others. I have never taken them up on it, but offer always stands.
--------------

As to what you can do? There are several websites online that can help you find groups that want to meet up for playing rpg's. Asking friends is always a good thing, and not some random tard you think might be interested. By friends I mean someone who won't burn your book.

Although I doubt this will be an option, but I suggest just going back to the game shop and asking to join a game. Or ask if you can leave a notice up that says your looking for players to start up a game of whatever. Unless the business owner is a complete tard he won't refuse the chance to get more customers.