What chalice?

[Katana_Geldar]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0631.html
It is safe to assume his "supervisor" is one of those fiends, right?

I think this might be a small mention for someone far bigger than we'll get much later

EDIT: No, they aren't his superivisors.

[NerfTW]

I think the chalice is just another reference to the simultaneous Frudu and the Ming quest going on around them.

[Turkish Delight]

I think the chalice is just another reference to the simultaneous Frudu and the Ming quest going on around them.

A Chalice and a Ming vase aren't the same thing at all.

[King of Nowhere]

I supposed it was just a random quest for a random powerful object.

[derfenrirwolv]

Its chekovs... drinking vessel

I'm sure it will be seen again.

And i don't think the ifcc is quarrs boss. When they appear, quarr says "Wait, who are you guys? you're not my regular supervisors"

[Herald Alberich]

I'm kinda hoping it's this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0093.html) - and now it's buried in Dorukan's dungeon.

I suppose it's a possible Chekhov's gun, but I don't think it'll come up again. It's probably just a joke reference to a standard MacGuffin cliche.

[Puns de León]

A Chalice and a Ming vase aren't the same thing at all.

They're close enough to warrant an off-hand comparison from an imp who is only interested in it because his boss "won't shut up about" it. A reference to Frudu would be a better joke than the throwaway MacGuffin cliché reference I too assumed.

If this plotline is actually taken anywhere, it could be the Holy Grail.

[Brauley]

They're close enough to warrant an off-hand comparison from an imp who is only interested in it because his boss "won't shut up about" it. A reference to Frudu would be a better joke than the throwaway MacGuffin cliché reference I too assumed.

If this plotline is actually taken anywhere, it could be the Holy Grail.

Or the opposite of the Holy Grail. Because they said DARK Chalice

[Turkish Delight]

They're close enough to warrant an off-hand comparison from an imp who is only interested in it because his boss "won't shut up about" it. A reference to Frudu would be a better joke than the throwaway MacGuffin cliché reference I too assumed.

If this plotline is actually taken anywhere, it could be the Holy Grail.

Oy. Even if we were to accept the idea that a vase and a cup are kind of interchangeable in someone's mind, which still strikes me as dubious even as you yourself are doing it, the reference still makes no sense even as a joke. What, was the Imp going to play the role of Dollum? Go leaping into the depths of Mount Shroom? I don't think the Lord of the Mings...errr, Rings...had any impish flying devils involved, unless the Imp is a really, really lame excuse for a Nazgul. And only comes into the story at the very, very end.

Nah. I think the Frudo and the Ming story was just a one-off joke which wasn't meant to have any further references attached to it.

[Puns de León]

@Brauley: Right, didn't see that. Never mind then. That's too important an artifact and would actually necessitate a real plot anyway.



Oy. Even if we were to accept the idea that a vase and a cup are kind of interchangeable in someone's mind, which still strikes me as dubious even as you yourself are doing it, the reference still makes no sense even as a joke. What, was the Imp going to play the role of Dollum? Go leaping into the depths of Mount Shroom? I don't think the Lord of the Mings...errr, Rings...had any impish flying devils involved, unless the Imp is a really, really lame excuse for a Nazgul. And only comes into the story at the very, very end.

Nah. I think the Frudo and the Ming story was just a one-off joke which wasn't meant to have any further references attached to it.

I don't think it would be too hard to imagine someone calling a vase a chalice, not because he/she mixed it up, but because he/she were speaking derisively or were indifferent to the details. I also don't think Rich intended this to reference his Frudu/Ming running joke, as it would be a really obscure one (kudos to NerfTW), but IF this is such a reference, it's brilliant. :smallbiggrin:
This wouldn't have been taken anywhere with Qarr or his supervisors, it would just have been a one-time joke and an addition to the casually ongoing Ming story, so there's no need for a Mount Shroom or anything else, with certainly no more than a panel dedicated to it. Having said that, there could be another Frudu/Ming joke down the road. Along with Teevo's mention of it, the're two more references to it in bonus material, so this could potentially run side by side with OOTS until the very end, something like one reference for every book, or for every two books.

[NerfTW]

Frudu and the Ming aren't a one off joke. It's been brought up several times.

And it can't be the Holy Grail, unless it's that in name only, seeing as how the grail is rather distinctly intertwined with a very specific real world religion and event that doesn't exist in the stick-verse.

[Jackel]

And it can't be the Holy Grail, unless it's that in name only, seeing as how the grail is rather distinctly intertwined with a very specific real world religion and event that doesn't exist in the stick-verse.

Unless he wants to parody Monty Python later on :smalltongue:

[Achilles]

I'm just chalking it up as a MacGuffin.

[Gift Jeraff]

I thought it was a reference to Frudu, too. But here's an alternative crazy theory:
The crown that Xykon stole when he killed Fyron is actually a broken chalice. What? Qarr said it was an evil chalice, and Xykon's crown did register as evil. Might even contain some evil soul or something. :smallcool:

[Sanguine]

I thought it was a reference to Frudu, too. But here's an alternative crazy theory:
The crown that Xykon stole when he killed Fyron is actually a broken chalice. What? Qarr said it was an evil chalice, and Xykon's crown did register as evil. Might even contain some evil soul or something. :smallcool:

Except he crown wasn't evil until Xykon got a hold of it.

[Conuly]

Except he crown wasn't evil until Xykon got a hold of it.

We don't know that. Durkon's explanation as to why people registered as evil when holding the crown was that the crown had picked up enough ambient evilness when being worn by Xykon to contaminate everybody around it; however, that does not mean that Durkon's explanation was correct. It could have already been evil when Xykon took it - presumably without Fryon's knowledge.

[spargel]

We don't know that. Durkon's explanation as to why people registered as evil when holding the crown was that the crown had picked up enough ambient evilness when being worn by Xykon to contaminate everybody around it; however, that does not mean that Durkon's explanation was correct. It could have already been evil when Xykon took it - presumably without Fryon's knowledge.

The idea that a crown can be evil doesn't make any sense anyways, unless the crown is sentient, or if there's an evil soul trapped inside or something.

[Bibliomancer]

The idea that a crown can be evil doesn't make any sense anyways, unless the crown is sentient, or if there's an evil soul trapped inside or something.

Something can also register as evil is it has an enchantment like Unholy. Perhaps the crown is a +5 Unholy Crown of Headbutting?

[spargel]

Something can also register as evil is it has an enchantment like Unholy. Perhaps the crown is a +5 Unholy Crown of Headbutting?

Didn't Xykon say it was just a normal crown?

[Cire II]

Didn't Xykon say it was just a normal crown?

Yeah in 434.It just looks cool.

[Tass]

And you trust Xykons word on it :P

[Thanatosia]

I have a real hard time imagining any reason for Xykon to lie in that case. He does not strike me as the type to lie just to lie, his random arbitrary acts of evilness tend to manifest in other ways.

[Kish]

Like when he told Tsukiko he had found Dorukan's headband in his Wheaties?

[Cire II]

Like when he told Tsukiko he had found Durokan's headband in his Wheaties?

He probably didn't trust her much at that point.She wouldn't have been there more than a few hours.

[Puns de León]

So why would he trust Roy, the guy trying to foil his evil schemes and unmake him?

[Cire II]

Yeah I guess, and it would be funny if roy found out that he had some extremely powerfull artifact around his neck the whole time and let xycon take it so easily.


sorry if this makes no sense but its two in the morning here

[Gift Jeraff]

Didn't Xykon say it was just a normal crown?

I was thinking it would be a twist that not even Xykon would see coming.

[Cire II]

That would also be good.

[Turkish Delight]

This wouldn't have been taken anywhere with Qarr or his supervisors, it would just have been a one-time joke and an addition to the casually ongoing Ming story, so there's no need for a Mount Shroom or anything else, with certainly no more than a panel dedicated to it.

Yeah, I know, but my point is that there is nowhere in a Lord of the Rings knock-off for a character like Qarr. If Qarr were a stunted centuries-old Ming-junkie hobbit or something it might make sense to have him assigned orders to intervene in the Ming plotline, but he's a little imp demon. Those don't appear in LotR, so why would he be scheduled to make an appearance into a parody of such?

Basically, I think if it was a joke, it was so vague and questionable as to be a failed one. A vase and a cup don't immediately link together in most people's minds, I would wager heavily, so without this kind of squabbling the reference would have been lost completely to most everyone. At the same time, there is no obvious place for an imp in a Lord of the Rings parody storyline, so the implication that Qarr would be instructed to involve himself in such a plotline would also fall flat.

The alternative, then, is likely one of two things:

1) The chalice thing was just a random meaningless MacGuffin which means nothing, relates to nothing and will not be brought up again.

2) The chalice thing was foreshadowing for something related to the main plotline.

But a link to the Ming plotline? Nah. Not unless it was done very, very badly by Rich, because the whole thing makes no sense in that context.

[Conuly]

Didn't Xykon say it was just a normal crown?

Okay, assuming we can trust Xykon as far as we can throw him, that *still* doesn't mean it's a normal crown. It just means that *he* thinks it is a normal crown. He's long since shown that he isn't the brightest crayon in the comic when it comes to knowledge of even his *own* abilities - I wouldn't at all put it past him to be carrying around a magical item and not realize what he had.

I think it's more likely, honestly, that it's just an ordinary crown imbued with evil-causing germs (or whatever), but I don't think we can take Xykon's word on the subject just because he happened to say it.

[Cire II]

Xycon would know if his crown was a powerful magic chalice shard and would put some resources to find rest,right?

[Conuly]

Xycon would know if his crown was a powerful magic chalice shard and would put some resources to find rest,right?

Yeah, you'd think so, but you'd also think he'd know that his pet monster-in-the-dark was a powerful magic user slowly being turned to the light side, and he seems so far unaware of it.

And that's just the tip of the iceberg of things you think YOU would know if you were Xykon but that, in reality, he doesn't seem to have a clue about.

[Optimystik]

Concerning the Ming:

A Chalice and a Vase are two completely different things, and the Ming is just a running gag anyway.

Concerning the Crown:

Xykon is cunning, but not intelligent. It is quite possible that it has magical properties that escape him.

Even if it is completely mundane, however, spargel's argument is incorrect: mundane items can register as evil through the Taint rules in Heroes of Horror and the SRD. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/campaigns/taint.htm) Taint affects all items that are in the routine possession of evil outsiders and powerful undead (hint, hint), magical or not.

[Conuly]

A Chalice and a Vase are two completely different things, and the Ming is just a running gag anyway.

I don't know. My sister has this vase she makes lemonade in all the time. I mean, she *swears* it's just a pitcher, but it looks a heck of a lot like a vase to me! It's not that far from chalice to pitcher, is it? And if pitchers can be vases, well then....

[spargel]

Even if it is completely mundane, however, spargel's argument is incorrect: mundane items can register as evil through the Taint rules in Heroes of Horror and the SRD. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/campaigns/taint.htm) Taint affects all items that are in the routine possession of evil outsiders and powerful undead (hint, hint), magical or not.

So evil is now contagious. Shouldn't Miko's detect evil register Roy as good and the crown as evil then?

[Optimystik]

So evil is now contagious.

"Now?" This isn't a new concept for fantasy by any means. The Barrow-dens in LotR are a prime example of taint (hobbits weakened merely by being near), as is Mordor itself (water brackish and foul, dark and forbidding, etc.)


Shouldn't Miko's detect evil register Roy as good and the crown as evil then?

Well, Detect Evil doesn't register anything as "good," as the scanning strip shows: just "Evil" and "Not evil." A short scan with detect Evil only reveals the strongest aura in the sweep, however, and Xykon's crown was strong enough to mask Roy's own.

Could Miko have waited longer before attacking and narrowed the emanation's source down the crown itself? Perhaps, but she didn't; to quote Vaarsuvius, "I find it entirely in keeping with what I know of her."

[spargel]

Anyways, can't Xykon just use detect magic or identify on the crown?

[Optimystik]

Anyways, can't Xykon just use detect magic or identify on the crown?

Sure he could.