What gender is Vaarsuvius in YOUR opinion?

[Goosefarble]

The title is fairly self-explanitory of what the thread's about, but yes.

Vaarsuvius. Gender-ambiguous elf. But what gender do you class him/her as? Obviously, there's no way of telling, and never will be, but when you're reading the comic, how do you read out V's lines?

I naturally assume s/he is female, and refer to V as "she" if I'm talking about the comic, but my friend says he. What's your opinion, children?

PS. Do excuse me if this thread is a duplicate or whatever. I'm new around here and am not quite sure of my way around. :smalleek:

[Weiser_Cain]

Male - the ego, getting along with a woman.

[The Rose Dragon]

He.

Because if you don't know anything about the sex of someone, the English language assumes he's a he.

[Goosefarble]

Well, that makes sense.

[Cire II]

I think s/he is female, because in strip three s/he and Haley are haveing a discussion about shoes.Not something men and women generaly talk about.

[Jackel]

Male.

Mostly because the first indication of V's gender was when Roy addressed him as V-man, and I remember hearing something about the running gag being picked up later on. So at least I have some reason to believe that was how V was originally intended.

Coincidentally, I just noticed how that occurred on the same strip the gender change belt was found. That has to mean... something.

[Goosefarble]

I think it's worth serious consideration.

[Liwen]

Female

Because V is awesome, and girls are awesome

[Sanguine]

Male. I have always considered him male and never viewed his gender as androgynous.

[Elfin]

I, too, have always viewed V as male.
As for the shoes in Comic 3, I always assume V is being sarcastic when s/he says "a most grave conundrum you faced".

[Goosefarble]

Mm. I've often thought "that's a very male thing to say/do", but then I've done that with female stuff as well. I think what finally clinched it for me was the Black Dragon threatened V's children. No man would flip out that much. ¬_¬

[Sanguine]

Mm. I've often thought "that's a very male thing to say/do", but then I've done that with female stuff as well. I think what finally clinched it for me was the Black Dragon threatened V's children. No man would flip out that much. ¬_¬

That is sexist and entirely wrong. I as a man would flip out that much.

[Ormur]

Female, I don't know why, Maybe just because of the hairstyle. It's not that s/he's very feminine but her/his behaviour has never seemed to rule out her/him being female. Women can also be verbose, ambitious, anal retentive perfectionists.

[Liwen]

You get immobilize by a 60 foot tall evil dragon that suddenly claims he's about to kill your own children. We'll see how much YOU flip :smallwink:

[liq]

I think an effeminate male elf who gets mistaken for a women is more credible than a butch female elf who gets mistaken for a man.

Also, Rich calls the character a "he" in the forums. Or did, back in the day.

[Jackel]

Mm. I've often thought "that's a very male thing to say/do", but then I've done that with female stuff as well. I think what finally clinched it for me was the Black Dragon threatened V's children. No man would flip out that much. ¬_¬

If you ignore Frank Castle, Noah Bennet, or pretty much any family man ever depicted in media. Frank even went berserk because some villain decided to mess with his family's remains.

Add the whole "torment their souls" thing and ... yeah.

Even Darth Vader turned on the Emperor for his son.

[Alysar]

Female

Because Haley shouldn't be the only girl in the Order.

[Goosefarble]

I know I know I know, I kid. If my children were being threatened by a dragon I'm pretty sure I'd be angry.

Just, for the love of god, don't hurt me or nothin'. O_O

[Alysar]

I think an effeminate male elf who gets mistaken for a women is more credible than a butch female elf who gets mistaken for a man.


Yes, but we know how much Rich likes to butcher cliches.

[Puns de León]

I’m not even sure as what gender Rich originally viewed V. Other characters refer to V as ‘he’ long before there’s any hint of conscious gender ambiguity in the comic. At that time, I always thought V acted more like a male. However, s/he’s presented as Haley’s best friend, and would provide much-needed support to the female portion of the party. A 5:1 male-female ratio would be a little lopsided; perfectly even distribution is kind of square and unrealistic, and tends to create corny male vs. female rivalries, while a 4:2 setting is pretty good. Speaking from an Elan point of view, I would therefore expect V to be female. Of course, the more represented gender is usually the author’s.

The fact that V rooms (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0123.html) and socializes principally with Haley throws me a little, but it's easily chalked up to their being each other's closest friend up to that point and V not showing anything but staunch elven professionalism. However, the behaviour can be chalked up to elven indifference and derisiveness towards human matters as well.
It could also be coincidence, and if V had met Harold instead of Haley in the bar that fateful night, their relations and the plot of the webcomic in direct correspondence to just the two of them would probably be much the same (though, with a name like Harold, it likely would be a bit duller). Focusing solely on V's behaviour, I'm inclined to say that s/he is male, as her/his abrasiveness, and general insensitivity are generally male characteristics, plus s/he’s proud and egocentric to a fault. Additionally, with the help of some exterior knowledge we know that his/her evil opposite, Zz'dtri, is male. BUT, to really get into it, this might counterbalance Durkon and Hilgya’s divergence on gender; all the other evil opposites are of the same gender as the OOTSers. :smalltongue:

So, in summary, I have come to no conclusion. :smalltongue:
V seems male when you get down to it, but I can’t shake the fact that he could be female, which I guess is the intention.

By the way, V's comment on Haley's Boots of Speed could easily have been a male speaking. V doesn't seem interested either way.

[Starscream]

She, for no very good reason.

I love cartoons, so when I read comics I tend to imagine them as animated in my head. As such, I also give the characters voices.

For V I tried to come up with something that was too high to be definitely male, too low to be definitely female.

What I came up with sounded a little bit like Raven from Teen Titans, or Mandy from Billy and Mandy. Since those are both female characters, I ended up thinking of V as female as well.

No real evidence from the comic to back that up, but nothing that really contradicts it either.

[Goosefarble]

She, for no very good reason.

I love cartoons, so when I read comics I tend to imagine them as animated in my head. As such, I also give the characters voices.

For V I tried to come up with something that was too high to be definitely male, too low to be definitely female.

What I came up with sounded a little bit like Raven from Teen Titans, or Mandy from Billy and Mandy. Since those are both female characters, I ended up thinking of V as female as well.

No real evidence from the comic to back that up, but nothing that really contradicts it either.

Yeah, I'd say the same. I had a fairly sort of plain voice for him/her when speaking normally, but when s/he got angry I just imagined the voice to be more feminine. But, you know, I'm weird like that.

[Puns de León]

Quote:

Originally Posted by liq
I think an effeminate male elf who gets mistaken for a women is more credible than a butch female elf who gets mistaken for a man.

Yes, but we know how much Rich likes to butcher cliches.

:smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin: Yes!



Also, superficially speaking, purple is just an effeminate colour. I think looking at evidence, we can conclude that V is a male, but subconsciously s/he seems like a female.

[paddyfool]

Hermaphrodite. (Kidding! "Male" was very much my starting assumption, in point of fact).

[fwiffo]

Oh, goody... Another V gender thread. There can never be enough of those, right? Right?!

As traditionally depicted by just about everyone since Tolkein, and particularly in D&D, elves are slender, graceful, generally beautiful, and relatively frail. In other words, by human standards, they are effeminate as a race. So, when human sees an elf and is not sure which gender the elf is, that elf is male.

Dwarves suffer from opposite problem. :smalltongue:

[Hitorijun]

Male.

It does make the party a little tipped to the male side 4-1. But his actions and the way people talk to him make me believe that it is a he rather then make it a more or less even 3-2 split.

[Haven]

Female

Because Haley shouldn't be the only girl in the Order.

Well, there's also Roy, who, even before and after the Belt of Gender Changing incident, has boobies.

[AshDesert]

I've always imagined V as a guy for no real reason. I didn't even think there was such an argument until it was brought up in the comics. There's "evidence" for both sides, if you want to call it that, but I go by the classic fantasy Elf rule of "Flat=Male" if you catch my drift:smallwink:.

[Gift Jeraff]

The only thing that makes me think female is the whole "rooming only with Haley" thing. But other than that, V is a man in my book.

[Cire II]

I also think Kyrie looks more male than female.Of course since V's children are adopted she could also be male.If only Belkar Knew more about the lizard reproductive system.:smallannoyed:

[Turkish Delight]

I'm not arguing either way, because the comic specifically goes out of it's way to shoot down any attempts to figure it out to the point where it's entirely possible even the Giant hasn't answered the question for himself, but I've always thought of V as male. In fact, it was only when the comic began to specifically point out that V was ambiguously gendered that I even gave the matter much thought. Until then, V was always a 'he' for me.

[waterpenguin43]

I used to think V was female, then I saw Kyrie and thought Kyrie to be female, and since V just doesn't feel like a girl after the whole dragon thing, male.

[Sgeo]

Female. Because of the hair *ducks*.

[Hawkeye]

I think female, purely because of the reason that I thought it was female before reading countless threads discussing the gender.

Also, these debates should go here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4918

[TerrickTerran]

From the first time I saw her, I thought V was female.

[AdamG]

Male, though he might not always look like it.

[Trai]

I automatically thought male when I first started reading the comic. I showed my friend #123 and she thought V was female because of the hair. As much as I think the Order's not gender-balanced, I kind of like the idea of Haley being the only girl, for some reason. I think it makes her more badass.

Although, I was kind of hesitant to think of V as male once Kyrie was introduced. I thought it would be cool to have the stereotype inverted: Kyrie, if a man, would be doing the feminine profession of baking; V, if a woman, would be doing the more masculine adventuring and wizardry...

The rooming only with Haley made me go back and forth between male and female for a while, too. But in my head it always comes back to male.

[Arakune]

Serious, with only a little bit of comedy. :smallbiggrin:

Male, since that was the giant first take. Until the giant officialy change his mind I will stick (oh boy...) with it.

[Querzis]

Male. Or, at the very least, it seems very obvious to me that V was originally meant to be a male.

[Watcher]

I think V is male, since Zz'dtri looks exactly like him/her and Zz'dtri is male. Body shape can't really help in any other way since both V and Inkyrius have the squared "Male" shape, but there was an obviously female elf (or half-elf, which makes it nonworking).

And for V rooming with Haley and not with anyone else, that could be explained by V not trusting them (Belkar), not appreciating their presence or "nonelfly grace" (Durkon), and unhappy atmosphere (Roy). V has enough excuse to room only with Haley whether V's male or female.

This is just my view, anyway.

[waterpenguin43]

And for V rooming with Haley and not with anyone else, that could be explained by V not trusting them (Belkar), not appreciating their presence or "nonelfly grace" (Durkon), and unhappy atmosphere (Roy). V has enough excuse to room only with Haley whether V's male or female.


What about Elan? Stupidity, maybe.

[Somniloquist]

So am I the only one who doesn't bother to assign V a gender? I don't think of he or she, they're just... V. It doesn't seem like something Vaarsuvius would consider important.

[Watcher]

What about Elan? Stupidity, maybe.

Oh, yeah, thanks. Any arrogant elf would hate to be around Elan's stupidity, and that makes V want to be with the only tolerable (in its mind) party member.

[Querzis]

And for V rooming with Haley and not with anyone else, that could be explained by V not trusting them (Belkar), not appreciating their presence or "nonelfly grace" (Durkon), and unhappy atmosphere (Roy). V has enough excuse to room only with Haley whether V's male or female.

I saw it the other way. Haley is the one who said: «V you're with me» after all. Haley is only rooming with V because V is the only one she can trust since hes married, hes not interested in humans and hes her best friend. And judging from their reaction with the gemstones, she was right not to trust any of the other guys.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0123.html

Edit: you know, reading this comic again, there is another reason why I just cant see V as a female. Maybe I was just never around enough girls before to hear it but I just cant see a girl, no matter how polite and formal, call her best friend «Miss Starshine» while I can most definitly see a guy doing that.

[InuSaga]

I've always thought of V as male. I was really surprised--since I never read the forums before--when he was referred to in-comic as "she." I know he's officially androgynous and that the truth will never be revealed, but I still consider him to be a dude. I have many reasons for this.

1. Very early on, Roy referred to him as V-Man.
2. I never thought too much of the "rooming only with Haley" thing because V is by far the least sexually intimidating member of the group, including Durkon. It seemed natural to me that Haley and V would sleep in the same room with no sort of tension. Finding out V was in fact married just confirmed this in my head.
3. V is very logical, despite "flipping out" when his children were threatened. That's not flipping out, though. I have kids. If I had the power, I would have done all of that and much, much more to protect them. But getting back to the logical thing, men tend to be more logical whereas women tend to be more emotional.
4. If V was female, Haley wouldn't like him. Sorry, but it's true. Haley is at least a little catty if not outright hostile to almost every single female character she encounters. The only exception I can find is the one with the old woman who wanted the Order to save her husband from ogres.
5. Finally, and this is the biggest reason . . . V doesn't have boobs. All females in this series have boobs.

"But, InuSaga," you say, "V's mate doesn't have boobs either."

I know. And his kids are adopted. See what I'm saying? Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I still think V is male.

[Trai]

I saw it the other way. Haley is the one who said: «V you're with me» after all.

Later on, though, V says, "I only room with Miss Starshine," so who knows who initiated the rooming thing. Maybe Haley's the one who pesters V least about the adrogyny thing. And as for V always calling her Miss Starshine, maybe it's just a formality. Seems like something an elf would do, at least for women. Courtesy, I suppose.


"But, InuSaga," you say, "V's mate doesn't have boobs either."

I know. And his kids are adopted. See what I'm saying? Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I still think V is male.

Oooh... that's an intriguing theory... not to be stereotypical, but perhaps that's the reason Haley can room with V and talk about shoes... :smallwink:

[Puns de León]

Edit: you know, reading this comic again, there is another reason why I just cant see V as a female. Maybe I was just never around enough girls before to hear it but I just cant see a girl, no matter how polite and formal, call her best friend «Miss Starshine» while I can most definitly see a guy doing that.

V also calls Roy "Sir Greenhilt", though, so it seems like a sign of respect. Besides, Haley and V aren't BFFs. I think it would be hard for V to develop an extremely strong relationship with someone who is not an elf, and in any case, elves are usually by nature a little more emotionaly distant than humans. I can't really see a guy calling a girl "Miss" if she's his best friend.



5. Finally, and this is the biggest reason . . . V doesn't have boobs. All females in this series have boobs.

"But, InuSaga," you say, "V's mate doesn't have boobs either."


A case can be made for V overcoming this particular hurdle since s/he wears a robe, which conceals any tell-tale signs. Note we also don't know if V has a rectangular or round body shape. Interestingly enough, we do know Kyrie's.

[The Extinguisher]

V is two gnomes in an elf costume. One is male, the other is female.

[Watcher]

Note we also don't know if V has a rectangular or round body shape. Interestingly enough, we do know Kyrie's.

Here. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0186.html)
(Wordage for word count)

[squidbreath]

Hmm, I'm female and I'm flat...so I'll stick to my initial impression and say female lol >cos of the hair.

Or maybe S/he somehow got a curse put on him/her that changes his/her gender every once in a while, hence his/her indifference to Roy getting gender-flipped :mitd: [& I'm beginning to suspect that all high elves are like that.]

[Puns de León]

Here. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0186.html)
(Wordage for word count)

Uh, what about it? We don't see the lower half.

[Watcher]

V's body, when partially hidden by the dragon, is obviously rectangular. You can't argue that V is curvy in that comic. V puts on the robe and hair thing, nothing else, though females are likely to put something else on...

For the hair, many of the elves have long hair, no matter what gender they are. You really can't judge someone's gender by their hairstyle, especially not V's new one, which is even more ambiguous.

[Kish]

In my opinion, Vaarsuvius doesn't currently have a gender, not in the same sense that the creature in the darkness is something specific. Though every time I read an argument like, "men tend to be more logical whereas women tend to be more emotional," I want to say Vaarsuvius is female out of sheer annoyance.

[Puns de León]

Oh yeah... I thought that women were also straight-edged before it came down to the nether regions.

Though some are: Elan's mom (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0050.html) has a straight back, and Sabine (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0043.html) is almost straight.

[NorseItalian]

I've always seen him as a she. That's why he (being a she) stays in Hayley's room at the Inn, and etc.

[Sanguine]

I've always seen him as a she. That's why he (being a she) stays in Hayley's room at the Inn, and etc.

I loved this. :smallbiggrin:

[Expeditious]

Since the very first strip, I've thought V to be a male. Androgynous? I don't frankly see it. He has male head and body shape, and female spellcasters (Samantha, Lirian, Tsukiko, Celia, Jenny) always seem to wear dresses which reveal their gender. But then again, this is just MY opinion and not the cosmic truth.

[factotum]

I'm with Expeditious on that. While stick figure art doesn't give us a lot to go on, I saw V as male from the first strip onwards, and was actually pretty surprised when I came on the forums and discovered he was supposed to have an ambiguous gender.

[xelliea]

Female.

I don't know why, it is just what I think her gender is.

[OITS]

It was around #0350 when I looked up wikipedia about the Order. I was more than suprised, when I read, that there actually were discussions about her gender. She always made a female impression to me.

Most people's problem will be the same as Belkars. Elven girls are the most common reason for people playing computer games (just to look at them while running), but feeling lust for V can turn into something not really straight. So it's the safer bet to call him a he and don't think too much about hot elves.^^

So everybody who sees her as a male is homophobic.(!!!!1!!!!11!!!)

Or not. Who knows?

[Mastikator]

Male, most character's who's primary trait is its gender are male.

[Goosefarble]

Yeee my thread is popular.

Good discussions, children. Keep it up etc.

[Meg]

Female. Mostly because I am female, and very similar to V in temperament, personality, etc. As a related note, I perceive Kyrie as male. Those kids, on the other hand... I'm just not sure what to make of them.

[Drestlin]

In my opinion, Vaarsuvius doesn't currently have a gender, not in the same sense that the creature in the darkness is something specific. Though every time I read an argument like, "men tend to be more logical whereas women tend to be more emotional," I want to say Vaarsuvius is female out of sheer annoyance.

that's because you are emotional. :smallbiggrin:

Always seen him as a he, without doubt, and can't understand why there's so many that think he's a she. :P

[UnChosenOne]

I think that V is male. It just feels right to think that s/he is a male.

[Flyingfox]

I think V is a girl. Why? Because people like to be politically correct and it would not be PC to have only one girl in a group. (Although I'm a bit biased, because I'm female.)

[NorseItalian]

I think this is best summed up by a quote from Mrs. Doubtfire:
"He's a she! She's a he! He's a she-she"

[Nerdanel]

Male. I think V is a gay man, as is Inkyrius. I think Haley allows V to room with her because she knows that.

From the start I thought V was an effeminate male elf (i.e. a normal male elf, gay or straight) and only later found out there was disagreement on that.

[T-O-E]

Male. I can't really imagine him being female.

[Gift Jeraff]

Actually, here's my theory for now: Vaarsuvius and Inkyrius are both male. However, only the latter is into guys; Vaarsuvius sees Inkyrius as an attractive female and they both love each other in a romantic/non-sexual way, too.

[Murdim]

Yeee my thread is popular.

Good discussions, children. Keep it up etc.I think it's the title. Most topics about V's gender have argumentative claims, beginning with Yet Another (And Usually Already Suggested) Unquestionable Proof That Vaarsuvius Is Male/Female from the original poster, continuing with a senseless debate where people use said other "unquestionable proofs" to claim their opinion is the right one, and ending with a topic lock. Why yours is clearly about personal feelings, without asking for justifications.

Anyway, i've always imagined Suvie and Kyrie as both male. I don't think that would make them gays, however ; in the OotS World, elves seems so oblivious to gender questions that it would be actually surprising if they have sexual orientations the same way humans have.

[Sanguine]

Anyway, i've always imagined Suvie and Kyrie as both male. I don't think that would make them gays, however ; in the OotS World, elves seems so oblivious to gender questions that it would be actually surprising if they have sexual orientations the same way humans have.

Question? Does that make all elves bi or all elves asexual and if it is the latter how do they reproduce?

[Murdim]

Question? Does that make all elves bi or all elves asexual and if it is the latter how do they reproduce?I would say that makes most elves elf-sexual, and they reproduce when two elves who happen to have functional, complementary reproductive organs have a sexual intercourse with each other. But if you absolutely want to classify them that way, well, let's just say they're OMG BISEXUALS :smallsigh:

[Sanguine]

I would say that makes most elves elf-sexual, and they reproduce when two elves who happen to have functional, complementary reproductive organs have a sexual intercourse with each other. But if you absolutely want to classify them that way, well, let's just say they're OMG BISEXUALS :smallsigh:

Sorry just wanted to be sure because your post could go either way in my mind.

[Purple_cloack]

I think V is Female. When I started reading, My opinion was clear:Female. Yes, I have thought that MAYBE, but not.

[LXH]

V is a sociology experiment to get people to share their views on gender and gender roles. See ^ ad infinitum.

[Goosefarble]

I think this is best summed up by a quote from Mrs. Doubtfire:
"He's a she! She's a he! He's a she-she"

XD. I would have to agree with you there. And as for:


I think it's the title. Most topics about V's gender have argumentative claims, beginning with Yet Another (And Usually Already Suggested) Unquestionable Proof That Vaarsuvius Is Male/Female from the original poster, continuing with a senseless debate where people use said other "unquestionable proofs" to claim their opinion is the right one, and ending with a topic lock. Why yours is clearly about personal feelings, without asking for justifications.

Anyway, i've always imagined Suvie and Kyrie as both male. I don't think that would make them gays, however ; in the OotS World, elves seems so oblivious to gender questions that it would be actually surprising if they have sexual orientations the same way humans have.

Yeah, when I made the thread I was a little wary that people would just bitchslap me down and that it had been conclusively proven that V had a gender and we'd already all figured it out, but I'm glad so many different people have opinions going both ways (no pun intended). Obviously, V's gender is ambiguous, there's no getting around that, and I'm not even sure if Rich Burlew knows himself which it is, but it's nice that we can discuss it light-heartedly.

[Captain Alien]

I think s/he is female, because in strip three s/he and Haley are haveing a discussion about shoes.Not something men and women generaly talk about.

In fact, the one who is talking about shoes is Haley. V does not seem to care at all.

Oh, and girls like to talk about their shoes to anyone. I know a girl that talks about her shoes even if you don't ask her.

[Pronounceable]

I had an elf wizard player exactly like early V (arrogant, verbose, power obsessed...). So V's male far as I care.

[Bedinsis]

Vaarsuvius gender is...
...unimportant. Though I can imagine V both as male and female, so I prefer to think of V as female, for the sake of gender balance.

[Ravens_cry]

I would say Vaarsuvius is a homosexual guy in a relationship with his partner and has two adopted children.
That's how I perceive it any way.

[Cire II]

In fact, the one who is talking about shoes is Haley. V does not seem to care at all.

Thats true ,also Haley seemed glad that Celia Knew what she was talking about.
Still haven't changed my opinion of V though.

[Vemynal]

Transgendered

[Ravens_cry]

Transgendered
That seems to be the way this fancomic (http://www.giantitp.com/Images/GuestWeek2005/oots9901.gif) takes it as well.

[JonestheSpy]

In my opinion, Vaarsuvius doesn't currently have a gender, not in the same sense that the creature in the darkness is something specific.

My thoughts, although I must admit to an unconscious leaning toward V being male. Can't say why exactly, just my general gut feeling.

[casper]

Female.

Like many (maybe, most of) readers, I just concidered her gender since the first strip and had no doubts of it, far before I even hear abot V's gender discussions.

Still, besides this feeling, some characters, who probably know her gender, considered her as female. I'm not talking about Haley, who can really just think V is female, but don't know it.
But, first, Belkar. We remember, that he added V to his "Lust" list, which probably doesn't include males. In my theory, Belkar pretends not to know V's gender just to make fan of hir attempts to hide it. But with his scent or something he probably can somehow help him know the truth. And when he was drunk, he couldn't hide it, that lead to the ki... uh, the "event".

But the main witnesses in this case are fiends from IFCC. They was waching V for some time with a monitor having see invisibility feature, and the probably just know such details about a person, on which depends the success of some golobal plans. The fackt, that Lee "set right" Nero just prooves, that tey didn't want to share such an exclusive information, and Nero accidently let out a secret.


Still, I realise, that V and elves in common wouldn't actually have gender at least until Rich stop having fun of such discussions.

[Weimann]

Female. A red dress-like clothing and (until recently) long, purple hair. It's enough for my mind to classify as female.

[Serpentine]

I always think she's female, for these reasons:
1. I'd like more females in the party, and
2. she shared a room with Haley.
On the other hand...
Male. I think V is a gay man, as is Inkyrius. I think Haley allows V to room with her because she knows that.I quite like this idea.
That seems to be the way this fancomic (http://www.giantitp.com/Images/GuestWeek2005/oots9901.gif) takes it as well.Transexuals have bits of beholder-traumatising horror? :confused:

[Scarlet Knight]

Process of elimination: :vaarsuvius: is male.

As every fantasy artist knows, female elves are always obviously female. Beautiful, delicate, "hawt".

The hero sees her from across a wooded glade in the moonlight, and his heart is lost.

Male elves are simply effeminate, but never wear the flimsy, strategically cut gowns female elves sport in those moonlit strolls.

Imagine if you couldn't tell male from female elves.

"Hold my darling! My soul is lost without y...eew! You're a dude!" :smallyuk:

[Flyingfox]

Guys, you have to remember The other Oots members don't know V's gender! Maybe Haley but that's it.

[Meg]

Funny, everyone seems to think Kyrie is male, though I think he's supposed to be ambiguous as well. I guess my real reasoning for thinking V is female is that there's something alarming about the concept of five men traveling with one attractive woman, who most of them have admitted being attracted to. I mean... Ick.

[Optimystik]

I think V is male, and Kyrie too. There is no conclusive evidence either way, but it would be nice to have a gay main character in a fantasy work for once.


Transexuals have bits of beholder-traumatising horror? :confused:

Depends on how well the operation went...

[Starscream]

Oh, I know that Kyrie is ambiguous as well. I just don't think I would have been able to tell he/she was ambiguous unless I was expecting it.

Had Inky debuted as just some background character, I would have immediately thought "male elf" due to the body shape, which unlike V's is not hidden by a robe. But I've been expecting V's mate to be another "It's Pat" for a while, and sure enough it's quite hard to be sure.

I don't take that as evidence that V is female though. Their kids are adopted, so I have no problem with the possibility that V is a homosexual male. I just think she's female because that's the first impression I got, and because of the whole "theoretical voice" thing I mentioned before.

[Goosefarble]

Yes, I realise that both V and Kyrie are ambiguous, though a lot of people have said that they thought Kyrie was female and based their "V is male" opinion on that, but to me Kyrie looks more male than V does. Dunno why, maybe because the idea of a baker having a wife that is immensely powerful and slightly sadistic makes me laugh. I dunno, it doesn't really matter. But it's nice to see so many different ideas. It's odd, however, that nobody's brought up the fact that the name Vaarsuvius is a masculine male. It ends with "us", which, in Latin, is always masculine (Claudius, Julius, Marcus, etc) and in order for a name to be feminine the "us" is replaced by "ia" (Claudia, Julia, Marcia). But then I guess if V was called Vaarsuvia there'd be no discussion. I think. Doesn't really matter, anyway. I doubt Burlew even thought this deeply into it >_<

[Kish]

It's odd, however, that nobody's brought up the fact that the name Vaarsuvius is a masculine male.
People have, in fact, quite often brought up that "fact." Other people have, as often, pointed out that the character Vaarsuvius is an elf, not a Roman, and the name Vaarsuvius is not Latin. The last time someone insisted Vaarsuvius was a Latin name and therefore male, someone else pointed out that the double-a is distinctly not Latin.

[Elfin]

I think it's the title. Most topics about V's gender have argumentative claims, beginning with Yet Another (And Usually Already Suggested) Unquestionable Proof That Vaarsuvius Is Male/Female from the original poster, continuing with a senseless debate where people use said other "unquestionable proofs" to claim their opinion is the right one, and ending with a topic lock. Why yours is clearly about personal feelings, without asking for justifications.


I completely agree.

[Gift Jeraff]

Inkyrius looks like a female to me, but I am of the "it would be funny if it was a male, as it would invert the stereoptypical gender roles" line of thinking, but I also think Vaarsuvius is a male, ergo...

[veti]

She. For reasons I've been into before and I'm not going to rehash here.


Also, Rich calls the character a "he" in the forums. Or did, back in the day.

Link or it didn't happen. :smalltongue:

[Puns de León]

Process of elimination: :vaarsuvius: is male.
As every fantasy artist knows, female elves are always obviously female. Beautiful, delicate, "hawt".
The hero sees her from across a wooded glade in the moonlight, and his heart is lost.
Male elves are simply effeminate, but never wear the flimsy, strategically cut gowns female elves sport in those moonlit strolls.
Imagine if you couldn't tell male from female elves.
"Hold my darling! My soul is lost without y...eew! You're a dude!" :smallyuk:

Has anyone brought up Legolas yet? Here's some reinforcement (http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=645).



I think V is male, and Kyrie too. There is no conclusive evidence either way, but it would be nice to have a gay main character in a fantasy work for once.


Dumbledore? Though you wouldn't have been able to tell in the story, Rowling just threw it in afterwards for PC. Or to defy PC.



People have, in fact, quite often brought up that "fact." Other people have, as often, pointed out that the character Vaarsuvius is an elf, not a Roman, and the name Vaarsuvius is not Latin. The last time someone insisted Vaarsuvius was a Latin name and therefore male, someone else pointed out that the double-a is distinctly not Latin.

I think a better argument against this is that Vaarsuvius is a take on (Mt.) Vesuvius, so the fact that the name is masculine appears to be a coincidence.

[Scarlet Tropix]

I think V and Kyrie are both female.
Feels more correct to me for some reason.

[Tira-chan]

My personal opinion is that V is female, mostly because I'm a girl, and V is the character I relate to the most. However, my inner yaoi fangirl disagrees, especially after the introduction of Kyrie, though I do like the idea of traditional gender role reversal.

And just a pet peeve: For all the people using the "ends in -us so male" argument, I would also like to remind them of Venus, whose name ends in us, and is most definately both Latin and female. I'm not saying it's evidence, I'm just saying...

[Sanguine]

And just a pet peeve: For all the people using the "ends in -us so male" argument, I would also like to remind them of Venus, whose name ends in us, and is most definately both Latin and female. I'm not saying it's evidence, I'm just saying...

Isn't Venus greek? :smallconfused:

[Axl_Rose]

imo, Distinctly Male.

[LordZarth]

Isn't Venus greek? :smallconfused:

No. That's Aphrodite.

[archon_huskie]

Female.

I believe that Power Rangers is to blame for my view. I grew up watching the show and it shaped my view of adventure groups. For many seasons Power Rangers existed as a five member group which got a sixth member midseason. The gender breakdown? Four male, two female.

Thus with four clearly male characters and one clearly female character. Thus I see the ambigous V as a female.

Oddly though, I see Susvie's mate Inky as clearly male, because I keep imagining him with a goatee. And yes I am aware that he does not have facial hair.

Weird huh?

[Sanguine]

No. That's Aphrodite.

Huh, I thought Venus was the mother of one of the Titans I guess I remembered wrong.

[Brogen]

Venus and Aphrodite were the same god. The Romans called her Venus, the Greeks called her Aphrodite.

Also, I've always thought of V as female.

[factotum]

Funny, everyone seems to think Kyrie is male

I think Kyrie is female, actually--probably just due to the pigtail (which I suppose causes problems now V has one too :smallsmile:).

[Elfin]

Huh, I thought Venus was the mother of one of the Titans I guess I remembered wrong.

The Titans all had the same parents: Gaia and Ouranos (Mother Earth and Father Sky).
The titans Kronos and Rhea gave birth to six of the twelve Olympian gods- Hades, Poseidon, Hera, Demeter, Hestia, and Zeus.

[Xondoure]

Female.
Gender balance.
The guys liked it when she talked about her "gem stones"
Always came across as feminine

[Dienekes]

V has always been Female to me.

And Evenblade is right, though he's using the Greek name for the Roman gods (Venus is Roman for Aphrodite). Though in a way she is more Titan than god. Since Saturn (Cronos) cut off his fathers penis Uranus (Ouranos) and threw it into the see. Then at some ambiguous time possible after Jupiter (Zeus) overthrew Saturn [though I think it depends on which version of the myths you're reading] Venus (Aphrodite) appears out of the foam left from the remaining sperm in Saturn's severed member.

Since she came from Uranus' ilk instead of Saturn she could be seen as a Titan, though she had her place with the Greek/Roman pantheon of gods.

[almightyk]

right from the start i have been reading V as a dude. i didnt occur to me that V could be female until it was mentioned. i tried reading as a female but it doesnt seem to work for me. but the thing that confuses me is i saw V's partner as a male as well. not saying they are gay, i just look at the partner and see a male. although the lines read fine as female

[Serebii]

I really never cared what Rich intended them to be, I've just always viewed V as female and Inky as male.

[Mystic Muse]

V as female and Inky as a male. Either one of the two is infertile or they found adoption easier. my mind probably won't change until Rich actually comes and tells us what they are and I don't think he's had his fun yet.

I hope one day he starts getting on the forums more often.

[almightyk]

Female.
Gender balance.
The guys liked it when she talked about her "gem stones"
Always came across as feminine

well when you mention that, you have to remember that the others dont know that V is male or female
so when hearing that conversation they just assumed V was female

[Mugen Nightgale]

Female and I'll be annoyed if Rich says she is male. I never really cared for the ambiguous elven thing. I read her as a female because I feel that it fits better in the history and in her personality.

[Maximum Zersk]

I personally think Vaarsuvius is a shklee and should be referred to as shkler or shklim. Thus making shkler similar to another creature that is purple.

Also, how Aphrodite was born makes me go :smalleek:. Course, all dieties in greek mythology are messed up. For example, in some stories, Gaia gave birth to Ouranos and then married him. Then had the Titan children. No wonder the the Titans and Olympians act like they do...

[Puns de León]

Also, how Aphrodite was born makes me go :smalleek:. Course, all dieties in greek mythology are messed up. For example, in some stories, Gaia gave birth to Ouranos and then married him. Then had the Titan children. No wonder the the Titans and Olympians act like they do...

Kind of like Adam created Eve and proceeded to give birth to the rest of humanity with her help? Gaia was the All-Mother. When you've only got one part and you need a second, some stuff is going to have to happen.

[Optimystik]

I personally think Vaarsuvius is a shklee and should be referred to as shkler or shklim. Thus making shkler similar to another creature that is purple.

We could do that, or we could speak English.

[Maximum Zersk]

We could do that, or we could speak English.

Yes, but who does on the internet?

Okay, Puns de Leon, how about this then: Zeus throwing Haphaestus of Olympus, the Olympians mating every human they friggin' see, Athena sprouting out of Zeus's head. That's all I can think of right now.

Oh, and Adam didn't create Eve, God did, out of Adam's rib. Doesn't sound like much difference, but it is.

[Mauve Shirt]

V is male to me. Roy called him "V-man" and I've never been able to think differently.

[Watcher]

I just thought I'd add: nobody can really use the "because her/his hair is that style", because Zz'dtri had the exact same hairstyle, not including color. The elves have crazy hair colors, so the "their hair is purple/green/silver/<insert obscure color> so they MUST be male/female" can't really work, either.

[Puns de León]

It's approximately the same. Not like Adam would have objected.

Yeah, mythology is perverse. The Ancient Greeks have especially squicky stuff in there because it's more detailed and realistic than the Christian explanation for creation. Athena's birth is symbolic of her mental prowess. Hephaestus got to craft the first wheelchair as a result of his accident (though I believe it was Hera that threw him off). Zeus was a notorious womanizer, half the mythos has to do with his exploits.

[archon_huskie]

Kind of like God created Eve from Adam and proceeded to give birth to the rest of humanity with her help? Gaia was the All-Mother. When you've only got one part and you need a second, some stuff is going to have to happen.

That's only in the second story of creation in Genesis. In the first story, God creates man and woman in the image of the heavenly beings.

[Coidzor]

Shemale. Magically Augmented Futanari. That sort of thing.

Originally female, now a male. All thanks to magic. Have yet to decide whether organs were switched wholesale or just added on.

[Goosefarble]

An interesting prospect, really.

[Shott]

Unless ever directly stated, V will always be a male to me. I never even considered otherwise until I got to the in-comic jokes about V's gender.

[almightyk]

same for me shott

[HealthKit]

I don't really care.
While V was first insinuated to be male, Rich has since gone out of his way to make a running gag out of the gender ambiguity, thus inspiring countless threads on the subject. I'd say the debate's pretty pointless at this point...

Again, I don't really care. :smalltongue:

[Optimystik]

I don't really care.
While V was first insinuated to be male, Rich has since gone out of his way to make a running gag out of the gender ambiguity, thus inspiring countless threads on the subject. I'd say the debate's pretty pointless at this point...

Again, I don't really care. :smalltongue:

You cared enough to post in a gender thread :smalltongue:

As a sidenote, I wonder what V sounds like? Redcloak immediately said "she" when V busted in, but Xykon seemed less certain ("Mr.-or-Mrs. Spock.") so I don't think his voice is completely feminine.

And while we're on the subject, shouldn't Jirix or Tsukiko have gotten a good look under his robe? :smallwink:

[mizzim]

To me, V is female. I've always seen kyrie as male, based on his body shape.

[ColonelFuster]

Because all of the characters are gaming archetypes, V is an elf male that everyone thinks looks like a female. Were V female, there would be significantly less clothes involved in the outfit worn.

[Zanaril]

Oddly though, I see Susvie's mate Inky as clearly male, because I keep imagining him with a goatee. And yes I am aware that he does not have facial hair.

Weird huh?
I'm not the only one. Thank the gods!

[Shining Sadist]

I believe that V was originally intended to be male, but slightly effeminate, mostly because of the V-Man comment.

However I view Vaarsuvius as her. It isn't really analytical, just the way I thought of it. It does seem to me to be backed up by the fact that she is more comfortable rooming with Haley than the men.

[Smiff]

I've always thought of V as female, still do. As far as indisputable proofs, I have none, but if you recall, following the "event," all the individuals that were listed on Belkar's 'lust' chart (Hermione Granger, Haley Starshine, and Mrs. Butterworth)* are female, and if V isn't female, why would she worry about being on Belkars 'lust' chart? Have to admit though, I can't imagine V as male, and her husband is totally a husband.


*p.335 War and XP's

[Draquenoire]

Its never really crossed my mind that V is anything but a dude. I just don't get that vibe that Vaarsuvius is female.

[Kish]

I've always thought of V as female, still do. As far as indisputable proofs, I have none, but if you recall, following the "event," all the individuals that were listed on Belkar's 'lust' chart (Hermione Granger, Haley Starshine, and Mrs. Butterworth)* are female

...Belkar, of course, does not know which sex Vaarsuvius is...


, and if V isn't female, why would she worry about being on Belkars 'lust' chart?
You're saying you wouldn't be bothered by a psychopathic member of the same sex lusting after you? (Regardless of which sex you're attracted to, that's none of my business, and we don't, after all, know whether Vaarsuvius is attracted to men, women, or both.)

[Optimystik]

If V isn't female, why would she worry about being on Belkars 'lust' chart?

Because any organism with two brain cells to rub together would?

(Notice how I neatly removed Jenny from consideration. I'm so clever :smalltongue:)

[warmachine]

Vaarsuvuis's gender is not at all clear. What must be remembered is that gender and sexuality are a continuous spectrum and effeminate men and masculine women do overlap on this spectrum. And that's just heteosexuals. Homosexuals and bisexuals blur any distinction like a two year old's finger painting. In this case, there are plenty of examples of masculine behaviour as well as effeminate. Nonetheless, on balance I'm going with particularly ambitious female. Purple hair, gold headband and sharing a room with Haley outweighs abandonment of children and single-minded focus.

[Coidzor]

An interesting prospect, really.

Why limit yourself to the sex binary when you have magic involved anyway?

I mean, we all know V's gender. V's gender is "Ambiguous," "Androgynous" Etc, etc. Word of God and the running gag in the comic keep it that way. Sure, there's room for evidence, but the fact that it is debatable leads right back to the whole ambiguity issue.

V's sex is unknown, and with an obsession with magic such as V possesses, it does not seem too implausible that magic was at play at some critical juncture or fashion in the development of V's body and psyche.

As we do not know V's sex, I prefer to think of V as something beyond male and female.

[Assassin89]

I think Vaarsuvius could be female.

It could result in a joke in with V is hit in a certain area, and reacts in pain while stating that such trauma does not differentiate gender.

[Greggor]

Strange :smallconfused:

I always saw Vaarsuvius as male and Kyrie as female, since each of their introductions.

The -us ending on V's name is probably what triggered my first impression. Also, Kyrie looks like a female to me. And she's a baker. I don't want to get stereotypical/sexist/etc, but it seems to fit better in my mind.

[Elfin]

As we do not know V's sex, I prefer to think of V as something beyond male and female.

Sort of a Left Hand of Darkness deal, then?

[shadow_archmagi]

Sort of a Left Hand of Darkness deal, then?

<3 that book.

[Spiky]

V is written like a stereotypical male character, most of the time. And the other Order members react to V as if V is male, most of the time.

But V is androgynous. Just like Pat. Our opinions do not matter.

[Lycan 01]

Honestly, I see V as a chick. Dunno why, I just do. It feels weird to think of him as a guy... Like it just doesn't fit.

Oh well. I may be in the minority from what a quick skim of this thread has shown me, but unless the writer directly says that V is a dude, the purple-haired elf will always be a chick in my opinion.


Especially when V went evil. The hair flowing in the wind and fangs just looked more... "lady-evil" than "guy-evil" to me, for some reason. :smallconfused:

[Kallisti]

He.

Because if you don't know anything about the sex of someone, the English language assumes he's a he.

I second the motion.

[Dixieboy]

Yes, but we know how much Rich likes to butcher cliches.

We also know how much he likes to play the completely straight :smalltongue:


Male, because I say so. :smallbiggrin:

[Eleshar]

Well, as my mothertongue is highly inflectionate (7 cases, 3 genders,...) and the only words ending -us are latin masculine borrowings (there are some original words like "Rus" and "hus" that are feminine... but they are also obsolete and not used anymore), Vaarsuvius could not be female for me because my brain would have no way of declining the name. I did not know of the gender ambiguity until I read about it here on the forum.

So in short: male

[Xyk]

In latin, the name ending "-us" is masculine. Vaarsuvius is male.

[Dark Faun]

Vaarsuvius isn't latin, it's elven. :smallwink:

[Kish]

In latin, the name ending "-us" is masculine. Vaarsuvius is male.
In Latin, the form "aa" does not exist. Vaarsuvius is an illusion!

...or, you know, doesn't have a Latin name.

[Pelor]

Hermaphridite?

Aside from that I just assume he.

[Almaseti]

I always thought of Vaarsuvius as male because of the -ius ending to the name, which indicates masculinity. I know it isn't actually latin, and it seems like all elf names end like that in Oots, but that's still the impression I can't shake.

[srbrunoaf]

I never really cared... I liked the fun of the ambiguity...
But I personally think that V "looks" female... If V's a she or a transsexual, V'd still be hot...
On the other hand, if V took a more Pompeyous way, of clearly liking females, V looks like it would be a great buddy to talk about "See that hottie? I'd do her!"...

P.S.: I like calling it V for I feel it's more feminine, not that Vaarsuvius is too maleish in my opinion... But "Suvie" is still V's best nickname evah!

[Mordokai]

When I first started reading the comic, I was sure V is a he. Since joining the boards, I'm not so sure anymore.

For the simplicity sake, I refer to V as male.

[Phoenix Xul]

Male-Here's why.

1. Before the running gag developed, he seemed to be treated by the other characters as male.
2. The original Linear Guild alter was presumably male (blatant (Intentional) ripoff of a male character)
3. Rich tends to interact with tropes as much as possible. The Smart Guy, which V obviously is, is about 60% male. Thus, it's not considered a major subversion to make it a female, but it is more normal for it to be a male. Rich would have no reason to subvert the typical gender when no one would notice.

3 is obviously weaker, but I still consider V to be a male. It's just easier to assume a gender.

Also, most Elven languages are based off of Celtic--not latin. :smallyuk:

[Elfin]

Actually, Quenya is a kind of Finnish-Latin fusion.

[Zanaril]

In Latin, the form "aa" does not exist. Vaarsuvius is an illusion!
By that logic, so is Aarindarius! Coincidence? I think not. :smallcool:

[Killer Angel]

When I first started reading the comic, I was sure V is a he. Since joining the boards, I'm not so sure anymore.

For the simplicity sake, I refer to V as male.

Me too, for this same reason.
I wonder if someone is counting the preferences... is winning the male version, or the female?

[TheBibliophile]

Same here. I had no idea his gender was in doubt before going onto TV Tropes. Vaarsuvius is male! And I'll duel all who doubt me.

[Ave]

Male. Or rather, elven male...

[Faramir]

I always thought of him as male, primarily because I used to run a wizard who had a similarly overly verbose style of speech. It was lots of fun.

Ever since the Judy Garland strip I've been leaning towards gay male.

But in posting I alternate male/female pronouns.

[WhereamI?]

I would say female, Throughout the comic when someone is talking about V and s/he isn't present, they refer to him/er as she, and I have never seen someone refer to him/er as a He in that situation, Given Roy calling him V-man in comic 9 is a counter-example of that. Haley in my opinion wouldn't trust V if s/he were a man, and they wouldn't share a room all the time that way either (unless they were doing something naughty). On a last note, No matter how many times Roy imagines coup de graceing Belkar in his sleep, it always seems to me that those of a female gender are the most annoyed with Belkar and no one is bothered more by Belkar than Vaarsuvius.
If you managed to read through all this long winded explanation, you get a cookie.
__________________________________________________ _______________
:vaarsuvius: "I found the argument far to brief for my tastes."

[Malkar Grumbo]

I always thought Vaarsuvius was female IMHO, The reason being that V just strikes me as having more of a female vibe then a male one. Of course unless Rich decides to tell us which gender V is, we can only guess.

[srbrunoaf]

Hey, just looking at oldies, and saw V naked in 186, V has no boobies...
Damn, even Roy has boobies!

But I'd still hit V!!

[Kish]

But I'd still hit V!!
Only if your attack roll exceeded...*ducks*

[Optimystik]

Only if your attack roll exceeded...*ducks*

Ba-dum-kish

[Malkar Grumbo]

Only if your attack roll exceeded...*ducks*

I don't think most people have the attack roll to handle that. *bow chicka bow wow*

[Deliverance]

To answer the original question, in my opinion the gender of Vaarsuvius is none of my business. :smallsmile:

[Erts]

I think that originally Vaarsuvius was male (Rich said so,) but is now androgynous in his mind.
I seriously doubt that Rich is secretly sprinkling OOTS with hints to help us guess the gender.

And, I'm guessing that V's gender will never be revealed. That would defeat the point of all previous plotlines and jokes that have come from it.

[Kish]

I think that originally Vaarsuvius was male (Rich said so,)
Why won't this meme die?

Rich never said what gender Vaarsuvius was originally.

[Railith]

I'm pretty sure that V is a girl.

[Gandariel]

i say she's a WOMAN

reason one: she dresses like a woman.
reason two: when the Order goes to a tavern or else, V is always in room with Haley. so, she's a woman.

(she also says: I only room with Ms Starshine)

[SadisticFishing]

Purposefully ambiguous. Teehee, I ruin fun!

[Cleverdan22]

I tend to think that V is a male. Just kind of a feeling I have. I'm definitely open to the fact that we will never find out, though.

[theMycon]

I believe V is a woman.

The "Soul Splice" arc was kicked off by her admitting she hadn't thought something throught and needed help. It ended significantly better than usual, though.

Also, ladies- this is why men are taught to never ask for directions. Your average stranger would rather get you killed than admit (s)he doesn't know how to get to the train station. More than one person helping means more than one person doing their best to make sure they seem the most helpful & intelligent, whatever the cost to you.

[Gelondil]

Male... Varsuvius is a thoroughly male name, and 'his' behavior seems male to me. I don't put much stock into how masculine or feminine the character is drawn.



Why won't this meme die?

Rich never said what gender Vaarsuvius was originally.

A - Because it's fun to speculate...
B - Because this is the OOTS forum, so this will always be a relevant subject.
C - Just because Rich never said what V's gender is doesn't mean V doesn't have a gender. Thus, it's an important question that will come up every time someone mention's V's gender in the story.
D - Because it's fun to speculate...

[Zanaril]

V is V. I tend to lean towards her being female, but sometimes end up thinking of him as male anyway.

I seem to have a mental image of a male V and a female V, and my brain swaps them around when I'm not looking. I usually don't notice.

[Kish]

A - Because it's fun to speculate...
B - Because this is the OOTS forum, so this will always be a relevant subject.
C - Just because Rich never said what V's gender is doesn't mean V doesn't have a gender. Thus, it's an important question that will come up every time someone mention's V's gender in the story.
D - Because it's fun to speculate...
Ahem. None of that has anything to do with the "Rich said Vaarsuvius was originally male" meme which I quoted in the post you responded to.

[Optimystik]

A - Because it's fun to speculate...
B - Because this is the OOTS forum, so this will always be a relevant subject.
C - Just because Rich never said what V's gender is doesn't mean V doesn't have a gender. Thus, it's an important question that will come up every time someone mention's V's gender in the story.
D - Because it's fun to speculate...

Kish was responding to the overly repeated claim that "Rich said what V's gender was and then changed it to make a joke!" She wasn't trying to actually stop the discussion.

I'm not sure to what degree it's an "important question" either. V certainly doesn't think it is. :smallconfused:

[Dixieboy]

V is V. I tend to lean towards her being female, but sometimes end up thinking of him as male anyway.

I seem to have a mental image of a male V and a female V, and my brain swaps them around when I'm not looking. I usually don't notice.

You know, I have a vivid imagination, and the whole "My brain swaps it around when I'm not looking" implies that you do in fact, look at your brain.
Mental images of doom!

[UltimatheChosen]

I always thought V was female. I didn't even realize there was controversy about it until I read the FAQ.

[unknownmercury]

Never doubted V being a girl. And the other members of OOTS think so too. When V and Haley are in their room at the inn, and they're talking about Haley's crystal ball things, she says "I'm surprised you don't have a pair." None of the guys act surprised to hear Haley say this. :smallbiggrin:

[GreatWyrmGold]

Female. For a variety of reasons.

Or, if we're allowed to be un-serious, n/a.

[Forbiddenwar]

Female. For a variety of reasons.

Or, if we're allowed to be un-serious, n/a.

I say female too.

She isn't a box, like other males and some elves.

"V-man" doesn't mean male, any more than "V-dog" means dog.

No member of the order seemed to raise an eyebrow at the thought of V and Haley always sleeping in the same room. Or having a pair of orbs. Not even Belkar.

Like others, I always thought V was Female and didn't realize it was an issue until joining the forum, a few months ago. (didn't understand the bathroom or lizard joke until afterwards)

If she is male, she must be very effeminate. If she is female, she must be masculine. Which, of course, is okay. Gender is a spectrum, being a social construct, not an either/or. And I think we can all agree that V is in the middle of that spectrum. So gender isn't the question. V's sex is.

[lio45]

Also, Rich calls the character a "he" in the forums. Or did, back in the day.

Link or it didn't happen. :smalltongue:

I second that. Link please!

[Shale]

Male. Unless she's not.

[The Blackbird]

I'm rather neutral on this topic but I'm leaning towards female.

Just because I said evil V was hot once.

If I'm wrong you can't really blame me, it's an easy mistake to make. (http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=645):smalltongue:

[lio45]

People have, in fact, quite often brought up that "fact." Other people have, as often, pointed out that the character Vaarsuvius is an elf, not a Roman, and the name Vaarsuvius is not Latin. The last time someone insisted Vaarsuvius was a Latin name and therefore male, someone else pointed out that the double-a is distinctly not Latin.

I might have to dig up that thread to see how it ended, just out of sheer curiosity. I was away for a while and let it fell down the list of threads...

On topic, I've never had any doubts that he was male until the comic started showing signs that he was supposed to be ambiguously-gendered.

Now that it's officially established that V's gender is supposed to be unclear, it's pretty pointless to argue. Although there are visible signs he was initially intended to be male, he's been "undefined" for 500+ strips now. It's meant to be impossible to tell now. No use discussing his current gender...

However, I just still can't help considering him male when reading the comic (his behavior being 100%-typically-male makes it hard not to). But if you asked me, I'd answer "undefined/impossible to tell".

[X2]

What gender is V? Isn't it obvious?

I'm lying of course. I dunno what's going on... But I'm leaning towards male.

[lio45]

I always thought V was female. I didn't even realize there was controversy about it until I read the FAQ.

A little question to everyone who has answered something like this ^

(It's a genuine question, I'm curious to hear your answer.)

What did you think back then of the fact that Roy (who is quite close to V) called him "V-Man" in the comic? If you've been following OotS, then surely you read that comic... did it not make you raise an eyebrow?

I don't think I've ever witnessed someone (guy or girl) calling any woman/girl anything that ends with "-Man" as a nickname... not only is that something that just NEVER happens, but even if it ever did, you can bet the female individual being addressed like that would not let it pass without the slightest reaction like V did.

[Watcher]

I dunno about all of you, but V seems very rectangular to me in this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0186.html) comic.

[Lizard Lord]

I always thought of V as male and was actually surprised when I found out his gender was even in question.

[Lamech]

She's clearly female. ... Err... you want a reason? She seems female? Thats all I got.

[Spiky]

"V-man" doesn't mean male, any more than "V-dog" means dog.

This post is not about V's gender.

However, I must point out that both "V-man" and "V-dog" mean male. Only. Period.

[Zed's Dead]

Vaarsuvius is, let's face it, a Latinate name. Great language for d&d character names, if you ask me.

If you look at the second declension, nouns ending in "us" are generally male. If the Giant really wanted to create a gender-neutral character, he would have ended V's name with "on" or "um."

Plus, V is definitely NOT SEXY. Haley, on the other hand...is what we call in Arkansas...smokin'.

It seems that if V were a girl, then there would perhaps be some temptation for "her" to learn an illusion spell which could give her curves or something.

Just a thought.

It's really the name "Vaarsuvius" which is just so dang masculine. Think Vesuvius. Eruption. Big male explosion. Seriously.

[Shale]

The problem with that line of thinking is that "Inkyrius" also has the masculine Latin form. It's possible that they're both male, but I'd be surprised.

[Kish]

Vaarsuvius is, let's face it, a Latinate name.

In my experience, whenever someone on the Internet says "let's face it," they're trying to slip by an assertion of something that is very much up for debate.

There's no double-a in Latin, and so of all the languages the name Vaarsuvius could be in, Latin is completely impossible. The volcano Vesuvius, which does have a Latin name, therefore was given, by humans, a male name but there is nothing inherently male about volcanoes, either. ("Big male explosion"? I don't even want to know.)

[Trobby]

She, and also straight.

I say this because Haley and V sleep together in the same room, and Haley is completely comfortable with the situation. (Also, the only one in the group who isn't surprised to learn V is married)

[Shale]

Although if Haley knew that V was a faithful married man, couldn't she still be comfortable sleeping in the same room as him?

[Nimrod's Son]

She, and also straight.

I say this because Haley and V sleep together in the same room, and Haley is completely comfortable with the situation. (Also, the only one in the group who isn't surprised to learn V is married)
Haley and V have been close friends for many years. I've slept in the same bed as several of my female friends far more times than I can remember. It means nothing.

[LuisDantas]

Male.

Besides being the likely original intent of the giant (going by the "V-Man" line), V's personality has a sort of pride and insecurity that fits better with males than with females.

[sam79]

Female. That's just how she's always looked to me.

[MickJay]

Sex: male. Gender: other. :smalltongue:

[warrl]

For V I tried to come up with something that was too high to be definitely male, too low to be definitely female.

Male: tenor. Female: alto.

When we were taking a voice class I could sing one note lower and two notes higher than my wife. When we sing while driving down the highway, we'll often trade off the male parts from one song to the next.

[Trobby]

Although if Haley knew that V was a faithful married man, couldn't she still be comfortable sleeping in the same room as him?

Okay, that could be the case. I still think V is probably female though.

This isn't going to stop me from using dual pronouns, mind you. But the question IS "What gender is Vaarsuvius in YOUR opinion?", so not withstanding Haley's comfort with sleeping with a married man/longtime friend, this is what I forsee.

[Zanaril]

Whichever fits best for whatever crack pairing fic I'm currently writing, of course!

However, I firmly think Inkyrius is male.

[readsaboutd&d]

Male, because look at the way his mate acted. Plus it would fit the typical "save the wife and kids" even though it would look really funny if it was the other way round:smallsmile:. But sadly this sort of thing always ends up not revealed/hermaphrodite/doesnthavegender/...:frown:

[Ridureyu]

Male, because V doesn't care about anybody else, and is at fault for the divorce.

[Grothka]

I'm gonna start by saying I've always seen V as a guy, and as for the whole sleeping arrangement thing... if V was a girl why would there even be a discussion about it?

[Forbiddenwar]

Male, because V doesn't care about anybody else, and is at fault for the divorce.

this seems a bit of a sexist remark. But then most of this thread makes assumptions of the genders to validate thier opinions, myself included.

[TehSheen]

Female.

The title of the comic in which it says "A Parent's Worst Nightmare" was changed from "A Mother's Worst Nightmare".

[Shale]

But was the mother in question V, or the dragon?

[MickJay]

But was the mother in question V, or the dragon?

The dragon, she's describing how she found her child dead.

[noncaloric]

A 5:1 male-female ratio would be a little lopsided; perfectly even distribution is kind of square and unrealistic, and tends to create corny male vs. female rivalries, while a 4:2 setting is pretty good.

In my D&D days, the party was doing well to recruit even one female member.

[CasESenSITItiVE]

i'm going to say female

because i just realized, that kyrie has no curves

i know v doesn't either, but that was always justified by her having baggy and unrevealing clothes. not only is k wearing an outfit instead of robes, if he were a girl, that shirt would be showing major cleavage

(mind, v could be gay, but i'm playing the odds)

[Selene]

For me, they're both male until/unless Rich tells us otherwise.

[Tundar]

I think V is male. I can't really pinpoint why, it's just my first impression and I stick to that.

[Tijne]

I shall explain my own opinion in a bad poem-like fashion.


V is obviously
female because everything that
she does is characterized by
the average stereotypical elf
woman

Finished

[Killer Angel]

Quoting from the main thread, 'cos it fits so well...


I think this is the best evidence so far that Vaarsuvius is male. Men are more likely to be oblivious when their mate is making an effort.

(regarding, clearly, this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0679.html)comic)

[RoninAngel]

My first reaction would be to say that there is none becuase Ritch has said mulitpal times that he wont ever reveal it, making the point moot. :smallsigh:

A less ****-like answer would be to say that I think she or he is a butch lesbian and that his or her mate is a female (less-butch-lesbian :smallbiggrin:).

[Irbis]

I always thought of V as female.

And the comic sort of supports that, too - V's reaction in Dragon bonus strips is most definitely female, and V's height and weight in the DCF under the D&D rules would be another indicator for female.

Plus, Haley talked to (and was understood by) Celia and V about the green lime boots, another strong sign.

[Nimrod's Son]

Plus, Haley talked to (and was understood by) Celia and V about the green lime boots, another strong sign.
For all we know, V was being sarcastic with the "grave conundrum" remark. On the other hand, gay men are stereotypically just as interested in fashion as women are. There is no such thing as a "strong sign" on this issue. Rich has been dropping hints constantly about the identity of the MitD, sure, but he's doing the exact opposite with V's gender. If he can throw in a novel way to muddy the water even further, he does.

[Undead Prince]

I vote male.


And am glad he preferred the company of his books to that of the inkurios creature.

[Carnivorous_Bea]

I've personally come around to the idea that elves have three sexes -- male, female, and neuter. I think both V and Inkyrius are neuters, hence the adoption of the children.

It would kind of make sense for an extreeeeeemely long-lived race to have a third sex that couldn't reproduce, but that could fill in for a lot of stuff -- like, say, adopting the orphaned kids of a male/female couple who were killed while adventuring or whatever, since elves evidently have a long childhood, also.

So it's possible that when Belkar looked under the lizard's tail, if he'd had more knowledge of reptilian reproductive anatomy he STILL wouldn't have seen anything that told him what gender V is! :smallbiggrin:

[Trobby]

I shall explain my own opinion in a bad poem-like fashion.


V is obviously
female because everything that
she does is characterized by
the average stereotypical elf
woman

Finished


Pardon me, but I believe you mean:

I am quite certain
Red robes-purple hair-wizard
V is a female

Alternatively,

An elf named Vaarsuvius's gender,
is quite the mind-boggling bender,
but it's my belief,
she shares it with the thief,
and this last line is just for the ender.

Thank you. Thank you. *bows*

[Another_Poet]

I always see "her" as female, and more so when I see her with her mate whom I view as male (and for some reason I presume they are hetero).

I'm not sure why that's my gender guess, but I like it because it reverses the stereotypical roles somewhat - the man is the stay-at-home dad and baker, the woman is the no-nonsense businesswoman.

ap

[Glass Mouse]

When I started reading, V was clearly male to me. As time passed, though, he eventually drifted into "genderless" zone.
After the AC war, however, V's seen more and more female in my head. Dunno why. Weird how that goes, hm?

Also, am I the only one having trouble with seeing V as gay? Not if elven society is gay (or, as someone suggested, bi-sexual) in itself, but if it's frowned upon or in any way deviating, I just don't see V caring enough to fight for hirs sexuality. In that case, s/he'd probably just end up asexual.

[Trobby]

You know, it occurs to me that this is a sign of very interesting character evolution for V, who started out as a magic-focused elf without much to define hir outside of purple hair, and not even a gender.

And now, we have an elf with an ex-mate, adopted children, a dark and disturbing past, a heart of virtue but not the wisdom to enact it (up to interpretation), and rapidly accumulating various gender-related roles.

All without showing any actual gender.

When and if it ever IS finally revealed, it will be as big a revelation as the MitD's true form, or Elan's real father...or the real origin of Miko...Or Haley's big secret...or secrets. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0471.html)

[Nimrod's Son]

Also, am I the only one having trouble with seeing V as gay? Not if elven society is gay (or, as someone suggested, bi-sexual) in itself, but if it's frowned upon or in any way deviating, I just don't see V caring enough to fight for hirs sexuality. In that case, s/he'd probably just end up asexual.
If it were "frowned upon or in any way deviating", then it's unlikely they'd have been allowed to adopt. It's pretty safe to say that if V and Kyrie are gay, then elven society is by and large okay with it.

[Scarlet Knight]

Well. thanks to # 679 we now know :vaarsuvius: is female. Males NEVER turn down sex....:smallredface:

[Zanaril]

Well. thanks to # 679 we now know :vaarsuvius: is female. Males NEVER turn down sex....:smallredface:


I think this is the best evidence so far that Vaarsuvius is male. Men are more likely to be oblivious when their mate is making an effort.

Don't you just love how people can twist the same thing around to suit their own purpose?

[Glass Mouse]

If it were "frowned upon or in any way deviating", then it's unlikely they'd have been allowed to adopt. It's pretty safe to say that if V and Kyrie are gay, then elven society is by and large okay with it.

Good point. I think real life examples contradict it slightly, but this is fantasy. Cultural traits (such as acceptance) tend to get exaggerated in fantasy cultures.

[DoctorJest]

The title is fairly self-explanitory of what the thread's about, but yes.

Vaarsuvius. Gender-ambiguous elf.


Right there, you have hit the nail on the head. V is of the Androgynous gender. V is of the Ambiguous sexual orientation. I thought the comic made that quite clear.

[DoctorJest]

He.

Because if you don't know anything about the sex of someone, the English language assumes he's a he.

Actually, no. "He" is both the male pronoun and the neuter pronoun in the English language. You can use "he" both to indicate someone who is male and someone who's gender is indeterminate (or who doesn't have one). It doesn't actually mean that the assumption is that they are male until proven otherwise.

It's also been a common practice (for hundreds of years) to use "they" as a gender neutral pronoun, although I am sure some Language Geeks will be happy to tell me that it's not acceptable.

In fact, long before the gender-neutral "he" was deemed sexist by modern society, "They" was used in educated speech and in all but the most formal writing. I say if it's good enough for Shakespeare, Swift, Shelley, Scott, and Dickens, then it's good enough for an internet message board.

[Martok]

I think V is male. I can't really pinpoint why, it's just my first impression and I stick to that.
That's how I've always felt myself -- that V is male, but I couldn't exactly say why. However, the following posts in this thread have helped specify my feelings on the matter:



Male.

Besides being the likely original intent of the giant (going by the "V-Man" line), V's personality has a sort of pride and insecurity that fits better with males than with females.
I can't really add more than this, so I'll simply nod my head and agree.



Quoting from the main thread, 'cos it fits so well...


I think this is the best evidence so far that Vaarsuvius is male. Men are more likely to be oblivious when their mate is making an effort.


(regarding, clearly, this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0679.html)comic)
All too true, I'm afraid. Of all the male gender stereotypes that exist, the whole "men are thick/oblivious" thing seems to be one of the ones that most holds a kernel of truth.



Well. thanks to # 679 we now know :vaarsuvius: is female. Males NEVER turn down sex....:smallredface:
....Except that they do, especially if they're easily/sufficiently distracted and/or obsessed with something -- and I think most of us would agree that Vaarsuvius certainly qualifies in this respect. So much of V's passions have so long been devoted to mental & magical pursuits, that it's not at all difficult imagining him blowing off a romantic evening with his wife for studying spells and whatnot.

[Gullara]

I'm sure someone has said this but if you look you will see that V's mate has the male body shape so "she" must be female.

[Shale]

But they're deliberately androgynous. You've never seen a masculine-looking woman before?

[DoctorJest]

I've personally come around to the idea that elves have three sexes -- male, female, and neuter. I think both V and Inkyrius are neuters, hence the adoption of the children.

Actually I think the joke is supposed to be that no one can really tell the difference between a male and female elf anyways. Which, for the most part, is largely true according to most fantasy art.

[DoctorJest]

....Except that they do, especially if they're easily/sufficiently distracted and/or obsessed with something -- and I think most of us would agree that Vaarsuvius certainly qualifies in this respect. So much of V's passions have so long been devoted to mental & magical pursuits, that it's not at all difficult imagining him blowing off a romantic evening with his wife for studying spells and whatnot.

"Baby I wanna tell you all my hopes and dreams and fears
But I'm watching television, could you get me another beer
There's wrestling and pro football on, I hope you understand
I must watch it all for I am a man
...
I missed our anniverary and the birth of our son
It was beyond my control, my team was on a playoff run
Oh baby, baby, baby, you mean everything to me
But could you move your butt, you're blocking the TV? "

From "A Man Has Needs" by The Arrogant Worms

[Zanaril]

Actually I think the joke is supposed to be that no one can really tell the difference between a male and female elf anyways. Which, for the most part, is largely true according to most fantasy art.

No, the females always have busts larger than their heads. If they don't they're male, no matter how scrawny and girly. :smalltongue:

[DoctorJest]

These threads always remind me of this:

Elan: I think she was a girl! You know, in stories, Oracles are always female.
Belkar: No, no, no. The Oracle was a man.
Vaarsuvius: I fail to see what difference it makes.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0333.html

[DoctorJest]

No, the females always have busts larger than their heads. If they don't they're male, no matter how scrawny and girly. :smalltongue:

That used to be true... 20 years ago.

You really haven't seen much official D&D art of elves over the past 9 years, have you? The girls are boyish and the boys are girly.

[Kish]

I'm sure someone has said this but if you look you will see that V's mate has the male body shape

Even if this was unambiguously true...

so "she" must be female.

...this would not be.

Minus one internet.

[Ceric]

I usually see V as male.

Mostly because I automatically assume male until proven otherwise. So I refer to V as "he" and "him" in posts. But I could see him going either way.

Btw, under the assumption that V is male, I also think of Inkyrius as female.

[CrimsonAngel]

The title is fairly self-explanitory of what the thread's about, but yes.

Vaarsuvius. Gender-ambiguous elf. But what gender do you class him/her as? Obviously, there's no way of telling, and never will be, but when you're reading the comic, how do you read out V's lines?

I naturally assume s/he is female, and refer to V as "she" if I'm talking about the comic, but my friend says he. What's your opinion, children?

PS. Do excuse me if this thread is a duplicate or whatever. I'm new around here and am not quite sure of my way around. :smalleek:

Why. Why would you make another thread for this? :smallsigh:

[Krenn]

my brain is weird.

I always use "he" to refer to V because that's english default.

by i actually THINK of V as EITHER MALE OR FEMALE, depending on the strip in question. and even when I'm currently thinking of V as female, I use He/Him to refer to ...'him'. So when the dragon was being schooled, I thought of V as male, but when belkar kissed him, i thought of him as female, etc, etc....

[Meed the Mystic]

Because all of the characters are gaming archetypes, V is an elf male that everyone thinks looks like a female. Were V female, there would be significantly less clothes involved in the outfit worn.

And this is why I believe V to be a female. I think that having a female protagonist who is wearing less revealing clothing, and doesn't even look very feminine, is a breath of fresh air. I also like to think of V as a female because the reversed gender roles in her family (her being an adventurer,and her husband being a cook) is nice change of pace from typical fantasy families that include adventurers.

Plus, a group of three guys and two girls is much more balanced then only one girl.

Not that my opinion on the matter means much anyway. I would prefer that V stay gender neutral for the entire run of the comic, and it appears that he/she will.

[SwordsageErrant]

I'm of the opinion that Varsuvius and their mate are asexual beings that reproduce via mitosis. Their marriage and supposed elven descent are just a ploy to fool the ignorant humans they associate with.