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View Full Version : (4E) Dilettante Retraining and Psion At-Wills



Dyllan
2009-08-15, 06:04 PM
Alright, the Half-Elf Dilettante ability says you can choose an at-will power. When this was printed, all At-Wills were level 1. However, with the Psion class, we have At-Wills spread out at many levels.

I know you can never learn a power of a level higher than your character's level, but is there any reason my Half-Elf bard couldn't retrain his Dilettante ability to some high level Psion at-will? Sure, he wouldn't have any power points to use on it, but I imagine a level 23 at-will Psion ability (to use a random example) is likely better than the level 1 At-Will he has now.

skywalker
2009-08-15, 06:06 PM
Alright, the Half-Elf Dilettante ability says you can choose an at-will power. When this was printed, all At-Wills were level 1. However, with the Psion class, we have At-Wills spread out at many levels.

I know you can never learn a power of a level higher than your character's level, but is there any reason my Half-Elf bard couldn't retrain his Dilettante ability to some high level Psion at-will? Sure, he wouldn't have any power points to use on it, but I imagine a level 23 at-will Psion ability (to use a random example) is likely better than the level 1 At-Will he has now.

I'm pretty sure there was an errata that specifies a level 1 at-will power for Dilettante. Not positive, tho.

Mando Knight
2009-08-15, 06:16 PM
I'm pretty sure there was an errata that specifies a level 1 at-will power for Dilettante. Not positive, tho.

I believe the original text for the Dilettante racial feature stated "Level 1 At-Will Power." The errata specified "Level 1 At-Will Attack Power."

Gralamin
2009-08-15, 06:17 PM
I believe the original text for the Dilettante racial feature stated "Level 1 At-Will Power." The errata specified "Level 1 At-Will Attack Power."

Close but wrong.


Dilettante [Revision]
Player’s Handbook, page 42
Replace “an at-will power” with “a 1st-level at-will attack power.”

Alteran
2009-08-15, 06:19 PM
You can replace a power with another power of the same type (at-will attack power, encounter attack power, daily attack power, or utility power), of the same level or lower, and from the same class - a 5th-level attack power for another 5th-level attack power, for example, or a 22nd-level utility power for a different 22nd-level utility power.
You can't replace a power that's a class feature (such as a cleric's healing word or a warlock's eldritch blast or a power gained from a paragon path or epic destiny.

It's clear that you can retrain your dilettante power, although it seems you are required to select a power from the same class. Since you aren't selecting the power through a class, a DM might waive this requirement. The Half-Elf entry doesn't specify that your power needs to be a 1st-level at-will power, but it was written long before non-1st-level at-will powers existed. I believe Wizards has decided that the power must be a 1st-level at-will power, even though they may not have said as much. For example, a Human psion can take a bonus 1st-level at-will power, but it cannot be retrained to a higher level power. The Human entry also does not specify that the extra at-will power must be 1st-level. In addition, the bonus power cannot be augmented. We know this is true because it is how psions work in the Character Builder, and I believe Wizards released a statement that said as much. We could find out definitively by choosing a psion power as a dilettante in the Character Builder (assuming the CB deals with it correctly).

I may do that later, and if I do I'll tell you what happens. I predict it will work the same way as the Human bonus at-will power.

Edit: Ninja'd and errata'd. Ouch. At least it seems I was right.

Tiki Snakes
2009-08-15, 06:21 PM
Also, you aren't going to get the most out of them without power points anyway, and dilettente doesn't afaik give you any.

Having skimmed very breifly, I suspect they do not, un-augmented, get that much better that quickly at all. (They do perhaps offer some slightly better basic options for effect, but didn't seem to scale damage at all without being augmented? Not a problem for the psion, of course.)

psion attack at lvl 27, with no augments, offers a close blast 3 that targets creatures(rather than enemies), intelligence vs reflex, 1d8 + int, and slows what you hit (until the end of your next turn). Pretty good, admittedly.

Thunderwave is close blast 3, targets creatures, int vs fort, 1d6 + int and pushes what you hit backwards a few squares depending on your wis.


Even if it isn't errata'd, I can't see it breaking the game. :)

Kylarra
2009-08-15, 06:25 PM
The Human entry also does not specify that the extra at-will power must be 1st-level. .
Just to clarify, this has also been errata'd.


Bonus At-Will Power [Revision]
Player’s Handbook, page 46
Replace “at-will power” with “1st-level at-will attack power.”

Haven
2009-08-15, 06:38 PM
The Half-Elf entry doesn't specify that your power needs to be a 1st-level at-will power, but it was written long before non-1st-level at-will powers existed.

Eh? The rogue at-will utility Chameleon, among others, is in the PHB.

AstralFire
2009-08-15, 06:51 PM
Yeah, well, all your faces have been errata'd into level 1 at-faces.

Dyllan
2009-08-15, 07:38 PM
Oh my gosh, it's AstralFire! *grin*

Thanks for the clarification everyone. :-)

And Haven, I was aware of those type of abilities, but they are Utility powers that can be used at-will... not At-Will powers. At least, that's how the semantics worked in my head to make me think they weren't legal choices. Obviously, the errata makes the whole thing moot.

Glimbur
2009-08-15, 07:39 PM
Yeah, well, all your faces have been errata'd into level 1 at-faces.

Don't make me errata you.