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View Full Version : [3.5] Neutralizing Natural Armor



Shadowbane
2009-08-16, 10:32 AM
Does anyone have a method of neutralizing natural armor? Spells, weapon enhancement, material? Anything?

If you have something like this, please tell me.

PinkysBrain
2009-08-16, 10:35 AM
Well if you attack as a touch attack you ignore NA, so Wraith Strike works.

Keld Denar
2009-08-16, 10:35 AM
Delivering touch attacks generally works. Touch attacks bypass all material and natural armor. There are TONS of ways to get touch attacks. Wraith Strike, Emerald Razor strike, Deep Impact, Spot the Weakpoint trick, Master Thrower levels, Impaling weapon enhancement, Heartseeking Amulet, delivering a touch spell, and probably another dozen that I can't remember.

Shadowbane
2009-08-16, 10:37 AM
Oh, the impaling weapon enhancement is perfect, and the other ones are truly awesome for what I need.

Thank you!

Mastikator
2009-08-16, 10:51 AM
Brilliant Energy ignores natural armor, regular armor and shield.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-08-16, 10:53 AM
There's a spell in the SpC that weakens natural armor. Can't remember much else about it though.

kamikasei
2009-08-16, 10:57 AM
Brilliant Energy ignores natural armor, regular armor and shield.

Brilliant Energy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#brilliantEnergy) bypasses non-living matter, not natural armour.

Curmudgeon
2009-08-16, 11:55 AM
There's a spell in the SpC that weakens natural armor. Can't remember much else about it though.
Scale Weakening: RTA to reduce natural armor bonus by CL/3 (max 5 points of NA reduction).

FinalJustice
2009-08-16, 01:51 PM
IIRC, the version of Scale Weakening printed in Draconomicon is more potent than the SpC. It's worth checking.

Shadowbane
2009-08-16, 01:54 PM
Awesome, I actually own the Draconomicon. I'll check that now! Thank you!

Sinfire Titan
2009-08-16, 02:13 PM
The Impaling property functions 1/day and requires the weapon it is applied to to be a melee piercing weapon.

Spiryt
2009-08-16, 02:16 PM
{Scrubbed}Chink in the armor{Scrubbed - please don't link to copyright infringing sites}

Probably not very good from the optimisation point of view, but there it is.

Shadowbane
2009-08-16, 02:17 PM
Yep, I know that. What's good is that when I DM, and my DM both have a homebrew that swords can be either piercing or slashing, it's up to the player to decide at the time.

Curmudgeon
2009-08-16, 10:22 PM
IIRC, the version of Scale Weakening printed in Draconomicon is more potent than the SpC. It's worth checking.
Actually, it's not. WotC rules are that newer versions with the same name always replace older material. You don't get to pick and choose. That's the only thing keeping people from grabbing pre-errata material, after all. :smalltongue:

Sinfire Titan
2009-08-16, 10:27 PM
Actually, it's not. WotC rules are that newer versions with the same name always replace older material. You don't get to pick and choose. That's the only thing keeping people from grabbing pre-errata material, after all. :smalltongue:

You leave out a small clause: Unless Rule 0 overrides the Errata.

Curmudgeon
2009-08-16, 10:43 PM
You leave out a small clause: Unless Rule 0 overrides the Errata.
You just provided an example of the Oberoni Fallacy (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=941301).

Fizban
2009-08-17, 12:51 AM
Keld Danar got a lot of the good ones, though I also like Find the Gap (Pal/Rng 3). Wraithstrike or Find the Gap in a Wand Chamber will let you tear through stuff with power attack easily.

You could also use a spell like Flame Blade, Scimitar of Sand, Flame Dagger, Blade of Pain and Fear, Moon Blade, Decastave, Claws of Darkness, Fire Whips, or Shadow Weapon. These all create weapons (or claws, or arm whip things) that let you attack against touch AC. Though they don't apply strength to damage rolls, Power Attack is a feat, which means you can still PA for tons of damage. Flame Blade and Scimitar of Sand are explicitly wielded as scimitars so you can use both hands for 2:1, and Decastave wields like a quarterstaff so you have to use two hands weather you like it or not!

Myrmex
2009-08-17, 06:04 AM
You just provided an example of the Oberoni Fallacy (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=941301).

Doesn't the Oberoni Prinicple only apply to discussions of mechanical balance?

Curmudgeon
2009-08-17, 06:56 AM
Doesn't the Oberoni Prinicple only apply to discussions of mechanical balance?
No. Oberoni's original statement was fairly general:
There is an inconsistency/loophole/mechanics issue with Rule X. In this case, Rule X is WotC's errata rule: these offical updates replace current and previous rules. The incorrect answer to such an argument (the Fallacy) was:
There is no inconsistency/loophole/mechanics issue with Rule X, because you can always Rule 0 the inconsistency/loophole/mechanics issue. Errata is Latin for "corrections". Saying that you can pick and choose from errata because of rule 0 is an example of the Oberoni Fallacy: it's arguing that there are no problems (items needing correction) using older material because you can always choose which corrections to apply. :confused:

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-08-17, 04:38 PM
You can also dip a level in Warlock for Eldritch Glaive or a level in Pyrokeneticist for Flame Lash, both of which are at-will touch-attacks.

Myrmex
2009-08-20, 01:40 AM
Saying that you can pick and choose from errata because of rule 0 is an example of the Oberoni Fallacy:

Actually, you CAN pick and choose from errata. You can pick and choose from anything. The Oberoni "Fallacy" applies only to a specific argument regarding problems in printed rules. Choosing what rules you want to play by, or mentioning the possibility of doing so, is not a fallacy. It may very well be the case that the OPs game doesn't mess around with WotC's "corrections"; in which case, your "Fallacy" is totally irrelevant.

Seffbasilisk
2009-08-20, 01:44 AM
As previously mentioned, touch attacks are the easiest ways to do this. If you're a spellcaster, I recommend stocking up on the Orb line of spells.

Curmudgeon
2009-08-20, 06:38 AM
Actually, you CAN pick and choose from errata. No, that's the Fallacy. If you can choose your errata (corrections), they're not corrections; instead, they're merely options.

You can pick and choose from anything. Oh, really? Choose not to have been born. I dare you. :smallbiggrin:

Myrmex
2009-08-20, 09:44 PM
No, that's the Fallacy. If you can choose your errata (corrections), they're not corrections; instead, they're merely options.

No, it's not the "Fallacy". It's not even an argument. It's the major premise of the argument that the Oberoni Principle rebuts.

Btw, everything in every gaming book, for the purposes of play, are merely options.


Oh, really? Choose not to have been born. I dare you. :smallbiggrin:

Don't be pedantic.

erikun
2009-08-20, 10:02 PM
Since I've been pimping psionics in other threads:

Deep Impact (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#deepImpact) for meleers, Fell Shot (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#fellShot) for archers, and Unavoidable Strike (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#unavoidableStrike) for unarmed/polymorphed attackers. All three allow normal attacks to be treated as touch attacks, and can be used by any psionic character, and character from a psionic class, or anyone with the Wild Talent (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#wildTalent) feat.