View Full Version : Wu Jen Help

2009-08-17, 12:39 AM
In my D&D group, a friend of mine recently rolled up a Wu Jen, and has thus far been noting less than stellar results. She wants to be able to help out in battle, but her spells just don't seem to be connecting with the enemies. I've been noticing that most of her best spells (we're third level) require her to make an attack roll. Not just a touch attack roll, but a full attack roll, and she doesn't have the BAB or the strength modifier for that.

I understand that a lot of casters are late bloomers, but she's getting a little discouraged and I'd really like to get her some help. Can any of you guys give some tips and suggestions for this level and well on into her Wu Jen career so that she can really start to shine?

Thrice Dead Cat
2009-08-17, 01:11 AM
Casters are good from the ground up, to be honest. If she's having issues with damage and attack style spells, then she might be better off forcing the enemies to roll.

Summon Monster series might prove useful for damage, but it does require heavy investments to make the pay-off at later levels. Hold Person might also work, but it quickly looses steam. Cloud spells like obscuring mist will also aid in either keeping the casters safe or with messing up enemy attacks.

Unfortunately, the Wu Jen spell list is tiny. Spell Compendium has no hard and fast list, but gives poor suggestions on what to add to the Wu Jen. Complete Mage also added a few things here and there, like Torrent of Tears. Nice little Will save or suck.

Edit: Quick note, the Wu Jen might be better suited, at least at these levels, to drop buff spells like Bull's Strength or Magic Weapon. There just aren't too many SoL spells around.

2009-08-17, 07:59 AM
Can you give more information on her character?

Like what spell secret she picked and what element shes associating with. Also mabye the 2nd level spells she tends to use alot?

Some good non-elemental 2nd level wujen spells:
Hold person
kiss of the toad
Spider climb

Is she allowed to rework her character at all once we know more?

2009-08-17, 10:11 AM
Consider her character a blank slate, for now. She's a little new at D&D and I'm sure our DM would cut her the slack of letting us rework her character.

2009-08-17, 10:17 AM
What is her elemental mastery? I'm playing a modified Wu Jen where I'm the master of two elements, but can only cast from those lists (So no super awesome decapitating scarves :( )

There are a lot of generic 'nuke' spells for the Wu Jen, namely Fireball, Steam Breath, Cone of Cold, Ice Storm... you know, the basics. Those don't require attack rolls. Spend a feat to get proficient with Fire Wings (Or even better, convince the DM to get rid of that silly 'you aren't proficient with your own flaming arms' carp), and then go around grappling people and burn their face off.

Wu Jen are also exceptional buffers. Giant Size is probably the greatest combat buff out there to stick on your melee fighter.

Oh - Also by third level, you should have enough feats to grab a Sudden _____ metamagic, which can help. I'm not exactly sure what you'd stick on there though. Sudden Maximized Ice Blast is possible

If you're wondering about my Wu Jen's build, it's a bit... unconventional. Human Wu Jen at 7th with Improved Unarmed Strike, Blistering Spell (+2 damage per spell level, failed saves get a penalty to hit), Weapon Finesse, Sudden Maximize, and Improved Grapple. His spell secret is Still Fire Wings. I'm sure there are better builds out there (Much better, actually.)

2009-08-17, 10:30 AM
She's only third level, so she hasn't yet chosen her elemental mastery, but I think her inclination is to choose metal. Thank you for the advice!

2009-08-17, 10:47 AM
Well then
if thats the case then first and formost i would get rid of what ever spells she is using that are making her use normal attack rolls.

I would say that a wujen should prioritize stats as Int > dex > con >every thing else.

3rd level you get a spell secret and a free metamagic feat.

This is where in my opinion we need to specialise and be ready to choose elemental mastery when she gets to it.

It breaks down to doing 1 of 3 things.
Buffer, Battlefield control, blaster.

Simplist one is most likly the blaster type.

So ill start with that.

Element choice:
Fire or water

Metamagic feats to consider:
Empower(multiplies dmg by 1.5),
twin spell
If water
lord of uttercold(CArcane), as you have alot of cold spells.
If fire: I would choose sculpt spell, blistering spell, that one that moves people to the endge of the area of effect blast spell or something.

Notable spells
Cobra breath
Ice blast
Ice knife(one of my favorite low level spells)
Fire: At low level fire isn't the greatest blaster they get better with higher levels.
Magic missle(greatest low level dmg dealer)
Lighting blade.
Kiss of the toad

Battle field control:

Metamagic feats to consider:

Notable spells
obscuring mist.
Hold person,
Charm person
silent image
sleep though its going to start to become usless soon
fog cloud
minor image
wall of gloom

Lastly the buffer
metal, and earth(earth is the best IMO)

Metamagic to consider same as battle field control:

Spells to note:
bears endurance
bull str
Magic weapon
protection from arrows
Protection from
see invis
spider climb

I would highly recomend picking up a few of the summon spells along the way they mke excalent utility

(this only covers up to 3rd level nothing higher)

2009-08-17, 12:38 PM
Thank you! More excellent help. Ice knife in particular seems what she'd be looking for. Her level, and if it misses, it still might punish the enemies!

2009-08-17, 12:48 PM
I had to crack open the spell compendium and re-write the Wu Jen and the Shugenja’s spell lists to actually be elemental in nature. So I don’t have that problem.

2009-08-17, 01:02 PM
As a few others have mentioned, the Wu Jen is a very fun and flavorful class, but suffers from having a terribly limited spell list, due to having it's spells locked into a supplement book instead of a PHB base class. As such, it's seriously weaker than other casters like the druid or wizard. In my opinion, there are a couple good fixes for this:

Talk to your DM and see if he or she would be willing to allow the Wu Jen to gain something similar to the Beguiler's "Advanced Learning" class feature, which would let the Wu Jen to add a Conjuration (Creation), Evocation or Transmutation spell from the Wizard or (more appropriate, I think) Druid spell list.

Alternatively, you could see if it would be okay for the Wu Jen to research new spells from the Wizard or Druid class list at no extra cost or difficulty.

2009-08-17, 01:29 PM
I don't suppose anyone knows what supplements expand further on the Wu Jen spell list?

2009-08-17, 01:31 PM
I don't belive by raw any do...

Most gms will let you pull from the spell compendium as long as it is appropriate.

2009-08-17, 03:11 PM
Snake Darts are the best Wu Jen attack spell: Auto hit, 2 darts that deal 3d6 damage.
Each dart causes Fort save to lose con (like a real poison) and hits again in 1 minute.

So you deal 6d6 and 2 Fort saves now for Con loss and 2 later to 1 target.