So, my PCs want Gunblades...

[Scarlet Tropix]

So my campaign went well this weekend, for those of you who know what I'm talking about. My PC's have all adapted splendily to non-core. However, at the end of the session, something came up that I wasn't prepared for. One of my players wants to either craft a Gunblade or have one crafted for him.

Being that we play renaissance games, I don't particularly mind, but I have no idea how to stat it or what it costs. I specifically remember rules for Gunblades in 2E, and I wouldn't mind trying to use those, but I was wondering if anyone knew of anything in 3E sourcebooks that pertain to those weapons. (or something similar.)

[Faulty]

It would definitely require an Exotic Weapon Proficiency. I'd give the blade 1d6 slashing, x2 crit and 1d8 or 1d10 ranged, x3 crit. How exactly would he hold the gun to aim it? Would the blade start half way up, or would it be a pistol and thus a light blade?

[Gorgondantess]

If you're striving for realism, give 'em -2 to attacks with both modes. It's a completely impractical weapon- it just wouldn't work.

[Scarlet Tropix]

I think they're looking for the big bladed kind that are mechanically inefficent, but I'll work with what I can get. On that note, any guesses on cost?

EDIT:
There is an efficent version, it's called a bayonet.

[Kylarra]

Roll to break your wrist every time you fire! :smallamused:


Anyway, you'll probably want something along the lines of

D6 damage, 19-20 x4 crit if there is a cartridge inserted (max 6)
1D6 19-20 x2 damage if all cartridges have been expended.

Reloading is a move action

I dunno.

[Eldariel]

Wait, does he want a Gun+Sword combination or one of those Final Fantasy 8 "Gunblades"? Either way, exotic weapons - mechanics vary depending on which type of "Gunblade" he wants. But the world has magic - humor him; maybe magic has been used to actually make it work as two weapons in one.

[Scarlet Tropix]

Definitely Final Fantasy. His dream at this point is to impale a guy and then fire off every shot in the chamber into the body.

[kamikasei]

Honestly? I'd just treat it as simultaneously a <melee weapon> and a <ranged weapon> - probably something like a bastard sword // repeating crossbow with a single exotic proficiency required to enable both modes. For essentially all rule purposes treat it as two separate weapons, and make it an immediate action to switch modes.

[Scarlet Tropix]

Honestly? I'd just treat it as simultaneously a <melee weapon> and a <ranged weapon> - probably something like a bastard sword // repeating crossbow with a single exotic proficiency required to enable both modes. For essentially all rule purposes treat it as two separate weapons, and make it an immediate action to switch modes.

This makes sense with some of the stats from earlier. You guys are helpful as always.

...Are there really no standard 3E rules for Gunblades though? They were in 2E, so I guess I'm a little disappointed.

[Magugag]

I think what the PC is looking for is an opportunity to slash and fire a round at the same time. Ranged weapon + melee weapon isn't exactly what they have in mind.

Edit: Sorry about that, clicked enter too soon.

Anyways, I'd say give the character a sword with a damage boost on every hit as long as it's loaded, expending one round with each attack. Reloading could be a move (or even full-round, if you want to be careful about power) action.

[Eldariel]

Definitely Final Fantasy. His dream at this point is to impale a guy and then fire off every shot in the chamber into the body.

Then it should be purely melee weapon that has charges that can be expended to deal extra damage, possibly with high crit range or triggers on criticals or such. In the game, the trick is timing it right, but as that isn't really a relevant option in D&D, you'll have to find some other trigger.

Maybe give him a Dex-check or Reflex-save to time the firing correctly when using them; right timing could generate a relevant bunch of extra damage, while otherwise the bullet is wasted.

[Starscream]

I'd rule that it's an exotic weapon with low damage but a high crit modifier for the vibrating caused by the explosive charge. These charges would have to be replaced, and would probably be kind of expensive. They might need skills in craft (alchemy) to make their own.

Then I'd hit them over the head with a Monster Manual for liking Final Fantasy VIII.

[Scarlet Tropix]

Then it should be purely melee weapon...

...Dex-check or Reflex-save to time the firing correctly when using them; right timing could generate a relevant bunch of extra damage, while otherwise the bullet is wasted.

I like your idea, but I fear that not being able to shoot from a distance may deter him somewhat.

EDIT:
Not sure he likes FF8. He only settled on Gunblades when I vetoed Sephiroth's moon-cutting sword.

[kamikasei]

Then it should be purely melee weapon that has charges that can be expended to deal extra damage, possibly with high crit range or triggers on criticals or such. In the game, the trick is timing it right, but as that isn't really a relevant option in D&D, you'll have to find some other trigger.

Yeah, that should work. I admit I've not played an FF with these weapons, I didn't realize you're supposed to be shooting the people you're stabbing all at once.

(Trying so hard not to make a "yo dawg..." joke here...)

[Eldariel]

I like your idea, but I fear that not being able to shoot from a distance may deter him somewhat.

EDIT:
Not sure he likes FF8. He only settled on Gunblades when I vetoed Sephiroth's sword.

*Shrug* Make the bullets have a dual purpose of being ranged weapons or being able to augment melee hits as described above then. But I'd ask him what exactly he wants first before working out the mechanics - much less work when he does half for you and all that's left is balancing :smallsmile:

[Magugag]

Then I'd hit them over the head with a Monster Manual for liking Final Fantasy VIII.

Hey, flavor-wise at least, the game was decent! Come on man. Gun swords! GUN SWORDS!

Anyways, on to the point I wanted to make. If the character wants to exclusively wield a gunblade later on in the game, you could even provide the character with the option of enchanted rounds (for sufficiently raised crafting and buying prices, of course) in much the same way that a ranged weapon can have enchanted ammunition.

[Kylarra]

Then I'd hit them over the head with a Monster Manual for liking Final Fantasy VIII.
Aww, but I liked FFVIII...:smalltongue:

[Scarlet Tropix]

*Shrug* Make the bullets have a dual purpose of being ranged weapons or being able to augment melee hits as described above then. But I'd ask him what exactly he wants first before working out the mechanics - much less work when he does half for you and all that's left is balancing :smallsmile:

I think I can roll with what I've got here. I'm honestly just relieved the player's not trying to emulate Voldo again.

[Magugag]

Oh, and yet another point. If you go the route of having it be a melee weapon that deals extra damage when loaded (I like the previous idea of a reflex check to fire the weapon on a hit, though) then you could also use it as a ranged weapon that merely deals that extra damage on a successful hit at a distance. That way, it's not necessarily fabulous, but your player won't be deterred by having no ranged option.

[kamikasei]

I think I can roll with what I've got here. I'm honestly just relieved the player's not trying to emulate Voldo again.

I hope you mean "dual katars and odd acrobatics" and not... anything else about that character.

[Scarlet Tropix]

I hope you mean "dual katars and odd acrobatics" and not... anything else about that character.

I wish.

I think being able to add the ranged damage in melee with a successful reflex save/dexterity check makes sense.

Moving on, what about hardness/HP and so on? I think it would be easier to break than most other (sensibly designed) weapons, unless we're assuming it's magical.

[Magugag]

Maintenance of a gunblade would probably be a pain in the ass, and as unlike a sword it can be rendered non-functional (gun-wise) by damage, I would definitely make it more delicate than your average sword. At the very least, I'd consider disabling the damage boost after a certain amount of damage to the weapon is sustained.

[Optimystik]

This makes sense with some of the stats from earlier. You guys are helpful as always.

...Are there really no standard 3E rules for Gunblades though? They were in 2E, so I guess I'm a little disappointed.

If you post/link to the 2E stats, it shouldn't be too hard for our number crunchers to convert them to 3.x based on similar conversions.

[Kylarra]

I wish.

I think being able to add the ranged damage in melee with a successful reflex save/dexterity check makes sense.

Moving on, what about hardness/HP and so on? I think it would be easier to break than most other (sensibly designed) weapons, unless we're assuming it's magical.I'd just start out by assuming it has to be magical. Something completely implausible mechanically by modern tech, shouldn't be steampunked up in "pseudo-medieval" times*.



*Unless you like rolling up random "does it explode in their face every time they pull the trigger" percentile checks, in which case, carry on. :smallbiggrin:

[vartan]

Similar enough? From the Ravenloft Campaign Guide:

Rapier, Parthian: The Parthian, or "Parting Shot" Rapier, is usually seen as an aristocratic display piece. It is simply a Rapier with a pistol built into the hilt. The Parthian Rapier is poorly-balanced compared to a standard Rapier, and is an exotic weapon.
You can use the Weapon Finesse feat when attacking with the Rapier's blade. You suffer a -4 penalty to attack rolls made with the Pistol if you do not possess the Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Firearms) Feat.

Rapier, Parthian
400 gp 1d4/1d8 1d6/1d10 18-20x2/x3 ---/30 ft. 5 lb.

[Scarlet Tropix]

*Unless you like rolling up random "does it explode in their face every time they pull the trigger" percentile checks, in which case, carry on. :smallbiggrin:

Oh but I do.

Anyway, if we're making them magical, the price is going to go right up.

Thanks for the statistics, vartan. I really need to actually get the books for Ebberon, Faerun, Ravenloft, etc.

[Faleldir]

You can add a wand sheath to a sword for 100GP.

[Scarlet Tropix]

You can add a wand sheath to a sword for 100GP.

A sword-wand?!

There's a concept that embodies "awesomely ridiculous"

[Myshlaevsky]

A sword-wand?!

There's a concept that embodies "awesomely ridiculous"

Choose a wand of Cure Light Wounds and make it doubly ridiculous.

[Kylarra]

Oh but I do.
People like you are why I need to add caveats to everything I write! :smalltongue:


You can add a wand sheath to a sword for 100GP.Not so useful for a fighter-type though as they can't generally use wands effectively. Might as well refluff a Duskblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20060905a) in that case.

[Scarlet Tropix]

Choose a wand of Cure Light Wounds and make it doubly ridiculous.

That's nothing, in one campaign I played in, one PC had a pair of pistols that shot positive energy and healed people... While still doing pistol damage.

That was the same campaign where I encountered the Must drink the potion/No apply it directly to wounds debate. That was godawful...

[Skorj]

There were a surprising number of medieval gun/melee weapon combinations, but AFAIK none of them were swords. Wooden hafted weapons with a pistol barrel built into the end were around, though not at all common (I find "holy water sprinkler" a particularly amusing example, though just for the name).

For the "Yo Dawg" version, so you can shoot while you stab, remember that a good, skilled soldier who practiced regularly could reload a musket in 30 seconds under ideal conditions, and it wouldn't take long for the powder to become too damp to fire just from the humidity in the air.

If you stick with some sort of realism, this would add some fun without being overpowering at all. Add a d10 attack, usable once, but a roll to see whether it actually fires with a DC that goes up 1 per half-hour since the weapon was loaded. With 5-10 rounds to reload, you can safely allow this without it really mattering past low level.

For a non-realistic version, just attach a wand of magic missiles to the sword, have it "proc" on even-numbered attack rolls, and call it a day.

[Myshlaevsky]

There were a surprising number of medieval gun/melee weapon combinations, but AFAIK none of them were swords. Wooden hafted weapons with a pistol barrel built into the end were around, though not at all common (I find "holy water sprinkler" a particularly amusing example, though just for the name).

For the "Yo Dawg" version, so you can shoot while you stab, remember that a good, skilled soldier who practiced regularly could reload a musket in 30 seconds under ideal conditions, and it wouldn't take long for the powder to become too damp to fire just from the humidity in the air.

If you stick with some sort of realism, this would add some fun without being overpowering at all. Add a d10 attack, usable once, but a roll to see whether it actually fires with a DC that goes up 1 per half-hour since the weapon was loaded. With 5-10 rounds to reload, you can safely allow this without it really mattering past low level.

For a non-realistic version, just attach a wand of magic missiles to the sword, have it "proc" on even-numbered attack rolls, and call it a day.

Some were swords, at least. There was a type of claymore or broadsword that had a pistol fitted into the blade past the hilt.

[Scarlet Tropix]

...Is it wrong/am I a bad person for laughing hysterically at the "Yo Dawg" jokes?

Anyway, I've got my stats so I suppose I shall depart unless I see another post.