science and zombies - a solution

[xPANCAKEx]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8206280.stm

well - not so much a solution... just "Kill them all. QUICKLY"

[TRM]

It's good to see that they have a sense of fun.

And I concur. Hit them fast and hard, it's the only way to go.

[_Zoot_]

Ok, now that the scientific community has grasped the anti zombie plan (kill them all, fast), it is time to get them thinking about other situations, like the robot revolution.

[Eldan]

For that, I suggest darkening the sky, to shut out the sun, and using time travel.

[Emperor Ing]

A professor has a punctuation mark in his name? thats AWESOME!! :smallbiggrin: [/offtopic]

And I dunno what you think, but common sense says we should take out the zombie plague hard and fast, we dont need university professors to tell us that.

[Eldan]

However, common sense does not always give correct answers. The application of scientific rigor is important.

Also, I totally did the same thing with a few friends as soon as we were shown population dynamic models of diseases: set lethality to a low value (few zombies are killed, none die from the zombie disease), set recovery to 0 (zombies aren't cured) and so on. Fun exercise, really.

[Emperor Ing]

If the chance for a cure is possible, that would be the only exception to that common sense rule I can think of at the moment. Basically, wether or not they're killable slow-moving zombies, or unkillable-short-of-vaporization Fast zombies, you gotta kill 'em fast and hard. If a zombie's running at you and you have a loaded M16 in your hands, do you 1, ponder on what will happen after you kill it and/or run, or 2, shoot it and then run?

[Pyrian]

To give the living a fighting chance, the researchers chose "classic" slow-moving zombies as our opponents rather than the nimble, intelligent creatures portrayed in some recent films.Great. We're all toast. :smalltongue:

[Flame of Anor]

Great. We're all toast. :smalltongue:

Hmm, have they tried a mixture, like you get in Half-Life 2? Slow, fast, toxic, and OMG GRENADE RUN zombies make for delicious undead variety!

[Coidzor]

Even if a chance at a cure was possible, it just doesn't seem feasible to put up with the risk of infection in using capture as a technique.

Far better to just see about making an inoculation anyway, which basically would mean it's not the virus but the fact that their mouths are so horrible (other than if they got to actually flesh-rending killing quarters) and filled with bacteria that would be unfun in a wound. Vaccination is sort of a matter of course, but the only viable first step would be to make sure it doesn't get to war levels or if it does that humans damn well better win.

Since even a newly turned zombie wouldn't exactly be in great condition if they were reverted anyway.

And it's cheaper to use a bullet to the brainstem than more advanced and convoluted methods anyway. Developing an AoE weapon other than white phosphorous which would be a slow solution and not even a sure one though... That would be useful...

[xPANCAKEx]

i suppose the plus side of fast zombies is they will die quickly - no beating heart means no blood circulation, means even if they "eat" you they won't gain the nutrition

they'll burn themselves out in a matter of days or weeks

but then they are zombies

screw it... KILL THEM ALL

[pendell]

Daily Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/6049924/Zombies-would-most-likely-wipe-out-humanity-if-they-really-existed-claim-scientists.html)



The scientific paper, which is published in a book “Infectious Diseases Modelling Research Progress”, looks at an attack by the undead creatures, who infect the living with a bite.

In their study, titled When Zombies Attack!, the researchers picked “classic” slow-moving zombies such as those in Dawn of the Dead as models and divided humanity into three: the living, zombies and the “removed” – zombies who had been killed by decapitation.

They concluded there was no point trying to cure those infected or live with them - the best thing was to destroy them as quickly as possible.

“A zombie outbreak is likely to lead to the collapse of civilisation, unless it is dealt with quickly,” they write in the book


...

what I want to know is how the heck they convinced someone to pay GRANT MONEY for essentially running a zombie game. I am in awe.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Telonius]

Maybe the Canadians know something the rest of us don't...?

[Krankheit]

Now if the zombies are fast zombies, will their study still apply or does it mean we are doomed no matter how fast we react?

[Joran]

Now if the zombies are fast zombies, will their study still apply or does it mean we are doomed no matter how fast we react?

Our only hope against the fast zombie apocalypse is to create the robot apocalypse to counteract it.

[Shas aia Toriia]

But either way, humanity is still destroyed.

[thubby]

isn't there already a thread for this?

[Worira]

Oh, that zany Professor Smith?.

[Joran]

Yes, there's already a thread for this.


But either way, humanity is still destroyed.

I disagree. All we need to do is make sure the robots are solar powered! Then when they beat the zombies back, we just block out the sun and our victory is assured! This plan is absolutely foolproof!

http://machall.com/view.php?date=2003-05-12

[mikeejimbo]

It's good to see that they have a sense of fun.

What do you mean sense of fun? Zombies are a serious problem!

[GoC]

I'm unimpressed. I doubt they modeled a real zombie attack, just plugged in some weird values into their models for fun on a boring day. Take it with a grain of salt.
Zombies are actually rather pathetic if their only transmission mechanism is biting. Even zombies that are basically very very agressive, adrenaline pumped humans that are not aggressive to their own kind (absolute worste case scenario) would only be a major problem until we duplicate their "don't attack me!" pheremones. However, make a zombie disease with aerial transmission and a week long incubation time and humanity will be pushed to the brink of extinction.:smallcool:

[JonestheSpy]

Man, it really is amazing how the Zombie Apocolypse meme has become so widespread and mainstream.

A friend of mine and I were discussing this just a couple of days ago. We came to the conclusion that it has its roots in a deep-seated desire in modern for society for a much simpler, no moral quandries kind of life - the kind of thing only a complete breakdown of modern civilization could achieve.

No bills, no rent, no commuting to stupid job: just basic survival, with absolute black and white morality - kill or be killed, with extreme violence being a necessity instead of socially unacceptable.

[zillion ninjas]

However, common sense does not always give correct answers. The application of scientific rigor is important.

Common sense is that which tells us the world is flat. - Stuart Chase

I've heard that the modern zombie meme is a reaction to the mindless consumerism and conformity in Western culture since the 1950's. Can't remember where I read that.

[Joran]

Common sense is that which tells us the world is flat. - Stuart Chase

I've heard that the modern zombie meme is a reaction to the mindless consumerism and conformity in Western culture since the 1950's. Can't remember where I read that.

Well, Dawn of the Dead, one of the first modern zombie movies takes place in a Mall, so it's a natural conclusion.

Simon Pegg thinks zombies:

"As monsters from the id, zombies win out over vampires and werewolves when it comes to the title of Most Potent Metaphorical Monster. Where their pointy-toothed cousins are all about sex and bestial savagery, the zombie trumps all by personifying our deepest fear: death. Zombies are our destiny writ large. Slow and steady in their approach, weak, clumsy, often absurd, the zombie relentlessly closes in, unstoppable, intractable."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/nov/04/television-simon-pegg-dead-set


A friend of mine and I were discussing this just a couple of days ago. We came to the conclusion that it has its roots in a deep-seated desire in modern for society for a much simpler, no moral quandries kind of life - the kind of thing only a complete breakdown of modern civilization could achieve.

For the popularity of the meme, I think it's because they're the only monsters or threats that a normal, everyday slub has a chance against. There's no super powers needed, no special rare material, but instead a regular person can kill and hold out against a regular zombie. We don't need to be another person or escape too far outside of reality to envision being the hero in this sort of fantasy.

[JonestheSpy]

For the popularity of the meme, I think it's because they're the only monsters or threats that a normal, everyday slub has a chance against. There's no super powers needed, no special rare material, but instead a regular person can kill and hold out against a regular zombie. We don't need to be another person or escape too far outside of reality to envision being the hero in this sort of fantasy.

I think that's actually a really good point. I still think that the apocolyptic aspect of it ties into the reasons I mentioned earlier, with an extra addition that a plague of zombies is a very guilt-free end of the world scenario. Nuclear War, environmental collapse - that sort of things has the "We should have done more to stop this" aspect hanging over it, but zombies? Not MY fault, now hand me a beer and another box of shotgun shells.

[T.G. Oskar]

Now if the zombies are fast zombies, will their study still apply or does it mean we are doomed no matter how fast we react?

Oh, we're doomed. Quite doomed. I mean, that's a paradox right there, multiplying...if we're not screwed, I dunno what might happen.

Though...perhaps they would be unable to exist?

[Jalor]

The irony of it all is that geeks on the Internet could have told them that. Or, you know, they could read World War Z.

[T.G. Oskar]

The irony of it all is that geeks on the Internet could have told them that. Or, you know, they could read World War Z.

Remember, it's not official nowadays until a study has been made regarding the fact. It can be blatant folk knowledge, but until it has passed the scrutiny of the scientific community, it's not "official".

[Moff Chumley]

Also: Mythbusters. Mythbusters had to of had their say.

[Haruki-kun]

*Really old zombie walks in*

"I've had it with you youngsters and your Resident Evil and your Left 4 Dead and your I am Legend! You know, back in my day, Zombies were respectable living dead creatures who craved the flesh of the living! None of this "Zombie Virus Infection Apocalypse" crap!"

*Walks out*

*Reg Shoe walks in*

"I prefer the term 'Living Impaired'. Thank you."

*Walks out*

@V: You can't hide your memes from me, young'un! :smalltongue:

[Murska]

Hmm. So, we have a fast zombie apocalypse. Then we start the robot apocalypse to counter it(be sure to avoid Grey Goo syndrome). We go into hiding and then attempt to cause an infinite deadlock.

Of course, the problem is that robots can create more robots while zombies are limited by the lack of human resources. Thus, I propose that only a part of us, let's say GitP, goes hiding underground, masterminding the three-way grinding war so that none of the sides gain the ultimate advantage.

Then, once they've been fighting for a millenia and ground everything to dust, they'll run out of resources and gradually waste each other to nothing.

Then we terraform Mars and move there.
????
Profit.

[Hell Puppi]

What if they make robot zombies, like the Borg?

[fetfet]

Maybe the Canadians know something the rest of us don't...?

Yes...

We do.

:smallamused:

[Haruki-kun]

Yes...

We do.

:smallamused:

Indeed. They've got this bacon thing... :smallwink:

[FoE]

ATTENTION DUELISTS! The CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation) already did a story about this issue. (http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2009/08/18/zombie-attack-infection-model-research.html?ref=rss&loomia_si=t0:a16:g25:r1:c0:b27238694) In the article, it mentions the researchers assumed zombies could re-animate even after being beheaded.

I call zombie bull**** on this hokum.


Maybe the Canadians know something the rest of us don't...?

Of course we do. Umbrella Corporation is the single largest employer in Canada.

[Hell Puppi]

Well general zombie lore is that you have to destroy the brain.

So technically a zombie without a head could 'live', it'd just be a bitey head.

[orchitect]

Then we terraform Mars and move there.
????
Profit.

Of course if we could terraform mars why not just leave Earth to the living impaired and move there in the first place?

My vote: gather together and hold hands, sing songs, ect., and summon the God Emperor. He'll know what to do.

[Haruki-kun]

Well general zombie lore is that you have to destroy the brain.

So technically a zombie without a head could 'live', it'd just be a bitey head.

Yeah, only there'd be no respiratory system to supply the brain cells with the oxygen they need, not to mention a digestive system to obtain energy.

Come on, guys. If we're gonna be geeky, let's be nerdy as well.

[SDF]

Yeah, only there'd be no respiratory system to supply the brain cells with the oxygen they need, not to mention a digestive system to obtain energy.

Come on, guys. If we're gonna be geeky, let's be nerdy as well.

Somebody didn't see the Dawn of the Dead remake credits.

[orchitect]

Yeah, only there'd be no respiratory system to supply the brain cells with the oxygen they need, not to mention a digestive system to obtain energy.

Come on, guys. If we're gonna be geeky, let's be nerdy as well.

Marvel did it once. They never explained how, but The Wasp was a "bitey-head" for a while. Then again, she's a superhero so who knows how the virus would affect their physiology.

There was a Necromunda (Warhammer 40k gang warfare) book where a guy juiced up with somekind of steroid or something and the zombie virus turned him into a veritable Hulk.

[FoE]

Yeah, only there'd be no respiratory system to supply the brain cells with the oxygen they need, not to mention a digestive system to obtain energy.

Fictional zombies can survive underwater. They don't need oxygen.

[BizzaroStormy]

One thing they aren't figuring in is the geek/nerd population that knows how to handle a zombie apocalypse.

[Flame of Anor]

Wait wait wait, there's a thread for this already. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121972)

O MIGHTY ROLAND WE CALL ON YOU TO GRANT US THE FAVOR OF A THREAD MERGE

[Rutskarn]

A free tip for all of you bleeders: a mattress is the best anti-zombie door barricade money can buy. Think about it.

[FoE]

One thing they aren't figuring in is the geek/nerd population that knows how to handle a zombie apocalypse.

Watch out, zombies: a bunch of out-of-shape (and typically overweight) nerds with little to no combat experience or survival training are going to take you down! Fear our extensive knowledge of tabletop games and leet computer skills! :smallamused:

[Pyrian]

Fictional zombies...As yet the only kind. :smallconfused:

[Hell Puppi]

Watch out, zombies: a bunch of out-of-shape (and typically overweight) nerds with little to no combat experience or survival training are going to take you down! Fear our extensive knowledge of tabletop games and leet computer skills! :smallamused:

"Don't worry Ma'am! I'm from the internet! We talk about this a lot!"

[Rutskarn]

Yeah, let's be honest with ourselves. As good as some of our grasp of the theory may be, a lot of us will fail and fail hard putting it into practice.

I have no illusions about my chances come zombocalypse.

[billtodamax]

I have the most fantastic illusions about zombapocalypses. Most of them involve fried chicken and a flamethrower, despite the fact that flamethrowers are next to useless against your typical zombie horde.

[Haruki-kun]

Watch out, zombies: a bunch of out-of-shape (and typically overweight) nerds with little to no combat experience or survival training are going to take you down! Fear our extensive knowledge of tabletop games and leet computer skills! :smallamused:

Excuse me, but I'm in fairly good shape and have previous combat training.

*scoffs*

*acts high and mighty*

*beats up*

Demons.... :smallamused:

[Cyrano]

Excuse me, but I'm in fairly good shape and have previous combat training.

*scoffs*

*acts high and mighty*

*beats up*

Demons.... :smallamused:

Why'd you add "demons"? Was it just so someone could go, "NO, Haruki-kun, YOU ARE THE DEMONS" or am I just reading it all wrong? Sorry.

P.S. Yes, you're the demons.

[Haruki-kun]

Why'd you add "demons"? Was it just so someone could go, "NO, Haruki-kun, YOU ARE THE DEMONS" or am I just reading it all wrong? Sorry.

P.S. Yes, you're the demons.

*points* (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120707)

And the fact that FoE is a demon and I'm an Angel, too.

[Eldritch Knight]

Maybe the Canadians know something the rest of us don't...?

Maybe we do, Maybe we don't. The question is, what is the world willing to pay? Muh-ha-ha-ha!

[Dallas-Dakota]

Ofcourse Zombies can't swim, or jump far.
...
I do suppose they could pile themselves high enough to walk over the really small water bodies....

That's why the smart people of the Netherlands will be safe.

[Hell Puppi]

Ofcourse Zombies can't swim, or jump far.
...
I do suppose they could pile themselves high enough to walk over the really small water bodies....

That's why the smart people of the Netherlands will be safe.

...might I suggest reading World War Z? :smallamused:

[Jack Squat]

Ofcourse Zombies can't swim, or jump far.
...
I do suppose they could pile themselves high enough to walk over the really small water bodies....

That's why the smart people of the Netherlands will be safe.

Even barring them communing via floating like corpses or walking underwater Curse of the Black Pearl style, am I mistaken, or is a good portion of the Netherlands still on mainland anyways?

Alternatively, we can go with Return of the Living Dead style zombies, in which they're capable of speech and rational thought...so even if they lack the skill to drive boats, they can always charter :smalltongue:

[Haruki-kun]

Even barring them communing via floating like corpses or walking underwater Curse of the Black Pearl style, am I mistaken, or is a good portion of the Netherlands still on mainland anyways?

Alternatively, we can go with Return of the Living Dead style zombies, in which they're capable of speech and rational thought...so even if they lack the skill to drive boats, they can always charter :smalltongue:

But if they're capable of speech and rational thought, what's so bad about becoming one?

[Pyrian]

But if they're capable of speech and rational thought, what's so bad about becoming one?The all-consuming longing to consume brains, for one.

[Jack Squat]

The all-consuming longing to consume brains, for one.

http://www.cynical-c.com/archives/bloggraphics/pork_brains.jpg

Just sayin...

I'd consider the rotting flesh to be a downside. According to RotLD, it's very painful to be a zombie.

[Haruki-kun]

http://www.cynical-c.com/archives/bloggraphics/pork_brains.jpg


Holy crap... why would anybody eat that? I feel sick just looking at it...

[FoE]

You wouldn't believe how many calories the average brain has! (http://antiheroescomic.com/comic/49)

[Eldan]

And that's just cholesterol. That thing doesn't even list carbohydrates or protein.

[Mattarias, King.]

:smallsigh: My solution is simple- Fire.

Yes, you heard me. I don't believe the "flaming zombies are worse for you" crap. That just means you didn't use enough fire. The solution to that? USE MORE FIRE! :smallfurious:

..Also, swords. Bullets won't do much, but cutting off their limbs and heads will.

Even better! Flaming swords! :smallcool:

..Or, y'know, point-blank annihilation. I like that too. Preferably with fire.

[FoE]

:smallsigh: My solution is simple- Fire.

Yes, you heard me. I don't believe the "flaming zombies are worse for you" crap. That just means you didn't use enough fire. The solution to that? USE MORE FIRE! :smallfurious:

Established wisdom for modern zombie hunters: The only thing worse than a horde of zombies is a horde of flaming zombies.
— The Zombie Survival Guide

[Eldan]

Use more fire. Melta weapons. or something akin to the blowtorch from Worms 2. Fusion Lasers. Thermite grenades (no idea if that's possible).

[T.G. Oskar]

Use more fire dakka.

Fixed. I'm not particularly keen with Ork lines of thought, but this one fits perfectly the zombie apocalypse solution. The more dakka, the better, though remember:

DERE IZ NOT ENUF DAKKA! (And for zombies, even less)

[Mattarias, King.]

Established wisdom for modern zombie hunters: The only thing worse than a horde of zombies is a horde of flaming zombies.
— The Zombie Survival Guide

Exactly. That means you failed at using enough fire and brought this upon yourself. :smallmad: For shame!

:smalltongue: Seriously. More fire.

I also prefer more choppy. Dakka is for when you're being not enough of a man (Er.. Ork) to shrug off something as simple as a silly lethal, necromantic disease.

[Yoren]

Just pop in 28 Weeks Later, take extensive notes and then make sure you do the opposite. Also chainmail.

Edit: Holy Mary Mother of Little Baby Jesus - those pork brains just might be the most disgusting food I've ever seen. On the bright side its only 150 calories a serving.

[Eldan]

Fixed. I'm not particularly keen with Ork lines of thought, but this one fits perfectly the zombie apocalypse solution. The more dakka, the better, though remember:

DERE IZ NOT ENUF DAKKA! (And for zombies, even less)

Or:
"Rule 37. There is no "overkill". There is only "open fire" and "I need to reload."

Maybe also:
"Rule 34. If you’re leaving scorch marks, you need a bigger gun."

[Mattarias, King.]

Or:
"Rule 37. There is no "overkill". There is only "open fire" and "I need to reload."

Maybe also:
"Rule 34. If you’re leaving scorch marks, you need a bigger gun."

:smallamused: I LIKE how you think, friend. Overkill is the only kind of kill. And the only proof of your enemies left should be the smoking crater where they once stood.

Glory! Victory! Doom to the evil undead! Fiery DOOOOM! :smallfurious:

[Kcalehc]

Assuming the zombies need to eat to survive (i.e. they are at least obeying some biological rules), then it would not take too long for them to die out on their own anyway. With no ability to cultivate food, and with failed attempts at eating creating more zombies (which traditionally then become non-edible) you'd end up with Mr. Malthus being correct. Also assuming that zombies will not breed (or if they did that zombie babies are as equally inept as human ones at taking care of themselves, and zombie parents are even less inclined than human ones to look after their spawn) then a zombocalypse would last no longer than the average human lifespan.
Survivors would simply have to avoid being bitten, and to await starvation taking effect. As the number of available fresh humans went down and zombies went up, this may hapen sooner than you'd think.

Of course, if you've got magical zombies that don't need chemical energy to move, then you're in trouble. Otherwise, just lock your door and wait it out.

[GoC]

The irony of it all is that geeks on the Internet could have told them that. Or, you know, they could read World War Z.
:smallsigh:
We had a thread on how feasable a zombie apocalypse was a couple of years ago and discussed World War Z. The conclusion was that even fast, strong, semi-intelligent zombies were not a serious threat unless magic was involved.

This was mainly because it's fairly easily to become completely immune to zombies, zombies travel very slowly and any armored vehicle is a death sentence to a zombie.

[RandomNPC]

full body chainmail (that i can make) the longest sword you can comfortably swing for prolonged amounts of time, and a bike, with a good solid chain cover and a good solid kickstand. find a bike shop for a few extra tires and you're set.

think about it, your ride isn't going to get you into rough terrain thats hard to get out of, it will not tire before you, and it will not run out of fuel. However I would trade the sword for an axe in some situations, but the getting stuck in a zombie skull is a major issue. And i do sword combat practice weekly.

[Jack Squat]

full body chainmail (that i can make) the longest sword you can comfortably swing for prolonged amounts of time, and a bike, with a good solid chain cover and a good solid kickstand. find a bike shop for a few extra tires and you're set.

think about it, your ride isn't going to get you into rough terrain thats hard to get out of, it will not tire before you, and it will not run out of fuel. However I would trade the sword for an axe in some situations, but the getting stuck in a zombie skull is a major issue. And i do sword combat practice weekly.

Chainmail's really, really heavy. Leather motorcycle wear would make good bite protection, is much lighter, and is more breathable. If you can ride a bike well (not like not fall down but get around decently in wherever you plan on without tiring), then it's a good option.

Melee weapons are decent if up against a small group, but since most tend to get lodged in skulls, and you'll probably wear yourself out in short order, not the best thing to attack a mob of zombies with.

If I were to move around for whatever reason (food supplies low, shelter overrun, meeting up with larger group of survivors), I'd probably take my Jeep (top/doors off) if I had gas, otherwise my mountain bike, a shotgun and pouch of rounds, survival knife or machete, and wear denim clothing. Decent protection, but more importantly it's light and pretty breathable. Since my main plan is to avoid encounters with zombies whenever I'm out and exposed, I want to be able to retreat as fast as I can. You can't win a fight against a horde on your own, but a (semi)trained group can.