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RagnaroksChosen
2009-08-18, 09:22 PM
So a friend of mine is joining a game i run. He wanted to play a strait up fighter. Hes a bit old school (aka he loves 1st and 2nd ed).
He asked me to make a build for him. The setting is a sea fairing style game.
So i thought of a power attacking/ crit based build.

currently the group isn't terribly optimised (currently level 6)
got a half fay wisper gnome beguiler
a wisper gnome rogue shadow dancer
half orc cleric(war god)
swashbuckler dread pirate(human)

Im not sure if the feat selection is good
Im giving him a +1 keen flaming burst falcion

1. weapon focus(falcion)
1h. power attack
1b. cleave
2b. improved init
3. jack of all trades
4b. weapon specialization(falcion)
6. Frightful presence DC(13)
6b. improved toughness

i think imroved toughness can droped but i don;t know what to give him.

any ideas?

Elfin
2009-08-18, 09:23 PM
There are many, many problems with this build, foremost of which is that as you get higher in level, you face an increasingly large number of crit-immune foes.
Oh, and seriously, don't waste your time with Weapon Focus or Specialization, Improved Toughness, or Frightful Presence.
Instead, pick up Improved Bull Rush + Shock Trooper and Leap Attack.
Improved Init is also a waste, but not nearly as much as the others.
And instead of Cleave, just pick up a level of Warblade to get Steel Wind.
Of course, if you're using ToB, there's no reason not to just go full warblade or crusader.

Also: don't waste your money on Flaming Burst. Instead, get holy...it's a pretty safe bet that most of the foes you fight will be evil.

Sorry for attacking your build; below is some pretty good advice on going crit-based.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-08-18, 09:30 PM
Crit-based is tough. Rogues have enough probelems with it, why would you add those issues to the already weak Fighter?

That said, snag a Scimitar made of Kaorti Resin(Wizards website), get the threat range doubled(Keen, Scabbard of Keen Edges, or Imp Crit), get it made Aptitude(ToB), and grab the Lightning Maces feat(CWar). Threaten on a 15-20x4, and each of those threats grants an extra attack. TWF is better with this, but PA works, too.

ericgrau
2009-08-18, 09:39 PM
Dunno about frightful presence but otherwise the feat list is good. People just underestimate the value of a +1 to hit. +2 to damage without any penalties, especially to-hit penalties, is also quite good (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87339). But those in heavy minmax games might have ways to get extreme damage while working around the penalties so then a penalty-free +2 won't seem like as much. Improved toughness is almost like +2 con, which is a bit OP imo. Well, at least for casters, and any smart caster knows con is his second stat. Even for a fighter it's not too shabby. Jack of all trades has no real combat use so I suspect he has some other reason for taking it (I mean, it's too obvious that it's useless).

Fighters have so many feats that I'd just pick up improved critical. Regardless I wouldn't pick up the keen enchantment since it's weaker than other damage enchantments. Other options are a friendly caster with a keen edge spell or a scabbard of keen edges. But the scabbard is only better than the keen weapon enchantment at mid to high levels.

Unfortunately the burst enchantments tend to be weaker on average than the straight-up damage enchantments. The only way to be avoid being sub-par is to find other ways to add more crits. The only other way I know of is Coup De Graces. In that case you may want to consider a scythe instead of a falchion (though a falchion might still be enough), or just skip the burst enchantments. Or he can just be sub-par and enjoy the excitement when he does crit.

Even balors & wyrms aren't crit immune and the weakest of zombies are, so I'm sure he'll find some fun at all levels.

Elfin
2009-08-18, 09:43 PM
Improved Toughness is nowhere near overpowered; it's terribly underpowered. Why should a caster choose 4 extra hitpoints over a metamagic feat or even Spell Focus? It's not like they're ever going to take damage anyway.

As for a fighter, there still is no reason to choose a handful of extra hp instead of something that's much more useful, like Leap Attack or Shock Trooper.

ericgrau
2009-08-18, 10:07 PM
Probably because at level 4 (when he only gets 4 HP) he can't use much metamagic anyway. It all depends whether or not your PCs die and how high their con is already. If you play standard stats with a 14 average con, and risk of death is decent, then staying in the fight 15%-20% longer means quite a lot. If the DM gives out max HP each level or you have 18's in 2+ stats, maybe it's not as much but it's still something.

If you think something is useless the best way to deal with it is to nix it so nobody takes it. Boosting it won't change things - it'll still be useless if the old version was useless - and you may find out the hard way if you're wrong when someone takes the boosted version. Or, worse, you may not realize why the player is doing so well from 5 different boosted things that only make a game breaking difference together.

Leap attack and shock trooper are indeed ways to get tons of damage that make any less cheesy feats (i.e., any core feat at all) pointless, while negating any major penalties. If the DM allows those two feats. Those are exactly the feats I was hinting at before. Wraithstrike is another common trick.

RagnaroksChosen
2009-08-18, 10:24 PM
Elvenblade: well i don't throw alot of crit immune things at them any way... He doesn't want TOB to Anime for him he wants something simple... I did offer TOB. Also holy is ok... my other players are trying to stay away from aligment stuff. though i don't see why the burst ones aren't nice even on a non crit there doing the extra d6.. and in this game not every thing is evil. Last game they killed a paladin.

Sstoopidtallkid: interesting idea.. im not a huge fan of the different materials stuff... Ill have to look at it.. forgot he mentioned he wanted a big sword.

Elvenblade again: Ya i kinda agree ran out of feats i thought he would like? shocktrooper is a bit much i was debating about leap attack though i may include it.


Also they don't have a standard caster... i did list what the other players are so Keen edge spell and wraith strike are out...

If i realy wanted to make him optimised to a T, i would have made him a chain fighter. The guy is more of a roleplayer i threw jack of all trades in there to give him something to do with the others...

I was thinking about giving him the warblade ability to refocus your feats...

Keld Denar
2009-08-18, 10:28 PM
Actually, because of the screwed up nature of crit multiplication, a great enchantment for a weapon is Collision. Its a +2 equiv that gives +5 damage. +5 STATIC damage. That means its multiplied on a crit, unlike Holy (2d6, average 7) which isn't. It also works on everything and isn't subject to any reduction other than DR (which, by the time you can afford a +3 minimum weapon, your base damage should MORE than cover).

Its in the MIC.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-08-18, 10:29 PM
One thing: Crit builds generally have effects that activate on each crit or on each hit, so they generally TWF. THF instead isn't impossible, but it's less effective. THF works best with things to make one hit count, primarily PA and multipliers for PA. You can crit-build for THF, or Power Attack for TWF, but you'll have less synergy.

Also, ToB != Anime.

RagnaroksChosen
2009-08-18, 10:34 PM
One thing: Crit builds generally have effects that activate on each crit or on each hit, so they generally TWF. THF instead isn't impossible, but it's less effective. THF works best with things to make one hit count, primarily PA and multipliers for PA. You can crit-build for THF, or Power Attack for TWF, but you'll have less synergy.

Also, ToB != Anime.

I agree with you to a degree but in our circle of players it is.. nothing wrong with it trust me but we have a ton of players that grew up in the 2nd edition/1st edition era and have irkings tword TOB/4th ed... I have to agree that some of the manuvers have a wuxia feel.. (im looking at you tiger claw). and to me wuxia in pen and paper is anime... but thats my opinion. can't back it up nothing to prove just a fealing.

Is there any thing that a fighter can get that can trigger on a crit besides the static modifiers.

Keld Denar:
This collision i will have to look at.
Side note: i love your cuthullu-esc ice cream.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-08-18, 10:38 PM
Is there any thing that a fighter can get that can trigger on a crit besides the static modifiers.PA is multiplied(as if it needed more multipliers), and works well since you can PA just enough that every attack that hits is a crit. But then you're investing in both Crit and PA, which is hard to afford. Also, a 1-level Rogue dip nets 1d6 SA(which isn't much and isn't multiplied), but opens up the Craven feat, which adds your character level to damage and does multiply.

Also, are there any houserules in effect that may matter?(auto-confirm crits is a common one)

Demons_eye
2009-08-18, 10:39 PM
I think the MiC has a lot of critical related enchantments.

RagnaroksChosen
2009-08-18, 10:39 PM
PA is multiplied(as if it needed more multipliers), and works well since you can PA just enough that every attack that hits is a crit. But then you're investing in both Crit and PA, which is hard to afford.

Also, are there any houserules in effect that may matter?(auto-confirm crits is a common one)

No auto but you crit 3 times on a monster and it dies.

My rogue in the game did that a couple of times.

Korivan
2009-08-18, 10:50 PM
Don't listen to crit bashers, heres a few things for you. For about a 1,500 you can make a masterwork scyth with the lamanated steel (+1 multiplier, +1 damage, +5 hardness, costs 900), serrated (+1 threat range, 300). With this you'll have a scyth that has 2d4+1, 19-20 x5. Grab weapon master from the book Sword and Fist for another X1 and threat range by 2 that will stack with improved crit or keen.

So all together, 2d4+1, 15-20, x6. There is also a spell from Icewind Dale 2 (3rd edition) that you could try to houserule in thats called executioners eyes (+4 to attack and crit range). Try to get a version that only affects one person instead of the whole party(9th level), put it permanent on a magic item with limited uses a day and you can have a 50/50 crit chance.

Also, invest in some weapon aug crystals from the Magic Item Compendium. You can switch them around as a free action and you can get one for infernal creatures, contstructs, and undead. Also, grab some weapon enchantments that focus on crits, thundering is nice as its sonic damage.

I had a gestalt Duskblade/Fighter-Weapon Master (only the first 7 levels)build with this that exceeded 300 damage in one hit. But even with out spell storing, channeling, bloodstone, you should see some ridicusly high damage output.

Power attack and leap attack are good ones too. Improved initiative is never bad, along with not neglecting your DEX, and a belt of battle, you shouldn't have any trouble striking first. Maybe you won't be the "almighty" wizard but you should still be a valued member of the team.

Keld Denar
2009-08-18, 10:59 PM
Yea, MIC has an enhancement that drains a level on a crit, give temp hp on a crit, slows on a crit, and a handful of other effects. The level draining one in particular is nice if you can crit on say, a 15+.

PinkysBrain
2009-08-18, 11:17 PM
Laminated steel seems from Mongoose D20, what is serrated from? As long as I was using very few books I'd probably allow relatively cheap ways of extending crit range, but with too many books it gets a bit out of control ... 6-20 crit range is a bit too much.

Korivan
2009-08-18, 11:35 PM
Lamenated and serrated both come from AEG-Source-Mercenaries.

PId6
2009-08-18, 11:37 PM
Ill have to look at it.. forgot he mentioned he wanted a big sword.
Wait, he said he didn't want anime? :smallconfused:

lvl 1 sharnian
2009-08-18, 11:53 PM
Add Disciple of Dispater when you can if you can get past the fact that he's evil, at 4th it'll have x2 crit multiplier with metal weapons, which stacks with Improved Critical but not Keen, so 12-20, 8th level gives you x3 crit multiplier so 9-20, and I suppose with weapon master, I guess it's 1d6 8-20/x4 and extra attack on each threat with Lightning Maces and Aptitude Scimitars

Sir Homeslice
2009-08-19, 12:06 AM
Wait, he said he didn't want anime? :smallconfused:

From time immemorial, Man has gazed upon his weapons and wondered "What if I made this really big?"

oxinabox
2009-08-19, 12:08 AM
Take power Critical + 4 to confirm.
and take some Warlbade lvls. add you Int to confirm (as an insight bonus)
and also give the ability to swap imporved Critical round between diffent weapons.

I just finish playing this build i twas awesome (til i decided i wanted to see if that poinson really was poison...)

Also Look at the exotic weapon elven corkblade 18-20 crit range.
it's in RoWild

Draz74
2009-08-19, 12:17 AM
Collision. [snip] Its in the MIC.

And also in the Psionic section of the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/weapons.htm#collision).

Jair Barik
2009-08-19, 01:07 AM
IMO theres two ways to do crits, either take something that will outright kill when it crits (the scythe) or take something that will let you get lots of attacks with a higher chance of critting. I have always like dual weilding kukris with two weapon fighting. If its crits your after the penalty barely matters as chances are you'll be hitting on a crit anyway

Doc Roc
2009-08-19, 02:07 AM
Read. This. (http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/rants/keenimprovedcritstacking.html) No really. Read it. It's SKR talking about the grim failure of 3.5 to implement a mathematically viable way to pursue critical hits without relying on stacking of threat range expansion. In short the "I haz a 4x Crit" approach is just noise, statistically speaking.

Now, I think he leaves a LOT of things out. But unfortunately, most of what he leaves out are actually factors that make it considerably worse to be a crit-monger.

There are a couple of left-over classes that buff crit threat though, so you're in luck. One is Psychic weapon master, available on WotC's site, the other is Disciple of Dispater, found in Book of Vile Deeds. Both are lovely PrCs in their own right, with a solid if not exceptional amount to recommend them.

RagnaroksChosen
2009-08-19, 08:20 AM
Wait, he said he didn't want anime? :smallconfused:


I said big sword not Giant sword.

oxinabox: Ya i looked at a court blade its only about 1 point more dmg on average then a falcion. i was thinking about giving him the warblade extras as just fighter abilities but wasn't sure.

Korivan: the weapon master thing is a good idea i don't mind 3.0 stuff. but the third party stuff i don't allow..

Telonius
2009-08-19, 09:19 AM
If the character is a total goody two-shoes, Resounding Blow ->Quell the Profane (both from Book of Exalted Deeds) can give some good bonuses. Possibility of cowering and d4+1 STR damage when you confirm a crit.

Cieyrin
2009-08-19, 11:07 AM
I said big sword not Giant sword.

oxinabox: Ya i looked at a court blade its only about 1 point more dmg on average then a falcion. i was thinking about giving him the warblade extras as just fighter abilities but wasn't sure.

Korivan: the weapon master thing is a good idea i don't mind 3.0 stuff. but the third party stuff i don't allow..

Big Sword, you say? High Crit, you say? Could I recommend you a Great Falchion, 1d12 18-20/x2? It's a feat to be proficient, as it's exotic, but put aptitude or whatever the enhancement is to make you proficient w/ what you're wielding. The Great Falchion is from Sandstorm, btb.

Also, I question the wisdom of having him go with standard PA multipliers that are based on charge in a high seas campaign, at least early on. Shock Trooper and Leap Attack are dependent on you having open space and ships aren't overflowing with such, so it might not be so wise a tactic to invest in such. When you hit higher levels when you can fly regularly with the right investments (probably a bit higher, given the lack of wizard in the party in question), sure, charge builds become viable again but it's probably more efficient to build toward something that works in close quarters and not dependent on movement and space that are possibly not available.

Them's my 2 coppers. Take as you will.

Eldariel
2009-08-19, 11:42 AM
Now, I think he leaves a LOT of things out. But unfortunately, most of what he leaves out are actually factors that make it considerably worse to be a crit-monger.

His rant kind of baffles me though. He fails to mention the simple factor that Str-bonuses are multiplied on criticals. I'm not saying it makes criticals broken or anything, but it does balance things out quite a bit. He's arguing that because Falchion deals less damage than Greatsword, there's a problem, even though base damage comparison obviously favors the lower crit range weapon.

If we give them both some Str-bonuses and Power Attack and Improved Critical, the Falchion comes out even already vs. average AC of the appropriate level. If we give them Keen, Falchion comes out ahead. And his whole Rapier-argument stems from the fact that he was using a 1-handed weapon.


This is not to say he's wrong though. Just that the particular rant really...doesn't feel like it's written considering all factors.

ericgrau
2009-08-19, 11:51 AM
At higher levels the falchion outpaces the greatsword in average damage thanks to its crits. I'd like to do the math for the 11th time, but I'd also like someone else to give it a shot this time before they make any claims.

BenTheJester
2009-08-19, 12:38 PM
I've always wanted to try a Thri-Kreen with MWF tree, 4 scimitars each with a different "on a crit" special ability, and of course, 8 levels of Disciple of Dispater. This gives a crit on a 9-20. This gives us a 0.000671% chance NOT to crit(with 16 BAB).

tonberrian
2009-08-19, 01:30 PM
For a crit-based build, Staggering Critical (Drow of the Underdark) is great - any confirmed crit will slow an enemy, as the spell, for one turn.

elliott20
2009-08-19, 09:09 PM
IMHO, the problem with a crit based fighter is that you have really very little control over it and it's reliability. as in, if you NEED that slow or that crit to come out, you really don't have any method of forcing it when you need it.

and unless there is some power out there that allows you to do just that, I just don't see a crit based character to be that reliable.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-08-19, 10:21 PM
IMHO, the problem with a crit based fighter is that you have really very little control over it and it's reliability. as in, if you NEED that slow or that crit to come out, you really don't have any method of forcing it when you need it.

and unless there is some power out there that allows you to do just that, I just don't see a crit based character to be that reliable.But you can make it more reliable. There are various ways of boosting crit range, some of which stack, meaning that you can crit on all attacks that land if you put a bit of effort into it. I've seen 8-20x4 crit range, and while I think that's a bit beyond normaal, it is reasonable to snag 12-20 or similar and Power Attack(or Stone Power or Combat Expertise), at which point critting should happen each time you hit.

elliott20
2009-08-19, 10:32 PM
I suppose if that level of optimization becomes standard for all crit-based fighter than yeah I agree.

in which case, the next step would be to expand upon the kind of things you can do off of that crit. maybe add debuffs, buffs, etc?

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-08-19, 10:54 PM
I suppose if that level of optimization becomes standard for all crit-based fighter than yeah I agree.

in which case, the next step would be to expand upon the kind of things you can do off of that crit. maybe add debuffs, buffs, etc?12-20 isn't that optimized. That's a Keen Kukri or similar with one effect doubling it that stacks with Keen.

The general method of boosting crit effects is taking Lightning Maces(extra attack on a threat when wielding 2 maces) with Aptitude(weapons count as any other for the purposes of feats) weapons and Blood in the Water stance(add +1 to-hit and damage, stacking, for each crit). To start with. :smallamused:

elliott20
2009-08-19, 11:11 PM
I thought when it comes to criticals, stuff like keen only increases the range by 1 point or something instead of outright doubling it...

hmm... must study criticals more closely.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-08-19, 11:24 PM
I thought when it comes to criticals, stuff like keen only increases the range by 1 point or something instead of outright doubling it...

hmm... must study criticals more closely.No, Keen and Imp Crit double. They don't stack with much, but they do double. You generally have to hit EWM or a 3.0 class to get threat increased beyone 15-20, but EWM is so good that it's not a big hit.

olentu
2009-08-19, 11:34 PM
No, Keen and Imp Crit double. They don't stack with much, but they do double. You generally have to hit EWM or a 3.0 class to get threat increased beyone 15-20, but EWM is so good that it's not a big hit.

Does the 3.5 exotic weapons master class increase threat range. I have not looked at it for a time but I do not remember it doing so.

Edit: Also I believe that the revised psionic weapons master does have some way to increase crit range.

Berserk Monk
2009-08-19, 11:38 PM
So a friend of mine is joining a game i run. He wanted to play a strait up fighter. Hes a bit old school (aka he loves 1st and 2nd ed).
He asked me to make a build for him. The setting is a sea fairing style game.
So i thought of a power attacking/ crit based build.

currently the group isn't terribly optimised (currently level 6)
got a half fay wisper gnome beguiler
a wisper gnome rogue shadow dancer
half orc cleric(war god)
swashbuckler dread pirate(human)

Im not sure if the feat selection is good
Im giving him a +1 keen flaming burst falcion

1. weapon focus(falcion)
1h. power attack
1b. cleave
2b. improved init
3. jack of all trades
4b. weapon specialization(falcion)
6. Frightful presence DC(13)
6b. improved toughness

i think imroved toughness can droped but i don;t know what to give him.

any ideas?

Take improved crit for a goliath great hammer. Times 4 crit modifier and it deals 2d6 if you're medium size. 8d6 if you crit!

The Glyphstone
2009-08-20, 12:59 AM
Take your ToB book and club him over the head with it until he accepts that nothing in it requires any sort of Anime flavor?

Assuming that doesn't work, I think the best you can get is a Scimitar/Falchion/Kukri (17-20 crit range) with Improved Critical (14-20 crit range) and Psychic Weapon Master 7 (12-20 crit range). Make the weapon out of Kaorti Resin for a x4 crit mod, which Psychic Weapon Master can pump to x5 a few times per day. Disciple of Dispater can technically get it higher, but it's 3.0 material and has some (surprise, surprise) Vile flavor elements to it.

Oh, and if he starts to recoil in horror at the word 'Psionic' - you did say he was a 1st/2nd veteran - beat him unconscious with the aforementioned ToB book, tie him down to a chair, and don't let him up until he's read the 3.5 Expanded Psionics Handbook cover-to-cover and absorbed its fun and balance.:smallbiggrin:

RagnaroksChosen
2009-08-20, 07:10 AM
Take your ToB book and club him over the head with it until he accepts that nothing in it requires any sort of Anime flavor?

Assuming that doesn't work, I think the best you can get is a Scimitar/Falchion/Kukri (17-20 crit range) with Improved Critical (14-20 crit range) and Psychic Weapon Master 7 (12-20 crit range). Make the weapon out of Kaorti Resin for a x4 crit mod, which Psychic Weapon Master can pump to x5 a few times per day. Disciple of Dispater can technically get it higher, but it's 3.0 material and has some (surprise, surprise) Vile flavor elements to it.

Oh, and if he starts to recoil in horror at the word 'Psionic' - you did say he was a 1st/2nd veteran - beat him unconscious with the aforementioned ToB book, tie him down to a chair, and don't let him up until he's read the 3.5 Expanded Psionics Handbook cover-to-cover and absorbed its fun and balance.:smallbiggrin:

Well sir first I think it has anime flavor. It has an eastern feel to it. which i think is anime fealing but regardless...

Scimitars/falchions/kukris are 18-20 not 17-20...

Actually he likes psionics he just doesn't want to play a psionic character.


Can we stop with the TOB please.

tonberrian
2009-08-20, 07:47 AM
If you really want to be nice to the crit build, let him use Bladed Gauntlets (Sword and Fist, iirc). They're a little broken (17-20/x2), but since there's no ToB, there's no Aptitude/Lighting Mace (or Aptitude/Roundhouse Kick) cheese going on.

The character needs some way of consistently getting full attacks, though, so a level of Barbarian (swapping Fast Movement for Pounce (variant from Comp. Champ.)) and/or encouraging the player to pick up Anklets of Translocation (MIC) would not be amiss.

RagnaroksChosen
2009-08-20, 07:49 AM
If you really want to be nice to the crit build, let him use Bladed Gauntlets (Sword and Fist, iirc). They're a little broken (17-20/x2), but since there's no ToB, there's no Aptitude/Lighting Mace (or Aptitude/Roundhouse Kick) cheese going on.

The character needs some way of consistently getting full attacks, though, so a level of Barbarian (swapping Fast Movement for Pounce (variant from Comp. Champ.)) and/or encouraging the player to pick up Anklets of Translocation (MIC) would not be amiss.

Duely noted. Do you think allowsing just him to have the lighting maces reworked for another item? he mentioned he wanted to use a cutlass which is a 19-20 crit even with keen or improved crit that would only bring it to a 17-20 crit range... do you think giving him a lighting mace effect would be to broken?


Also is there any way to get lighting maces to work with light maces?

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-08-20, 08:03 AM
Duely noted. Do you think allowsing just him to have the lighting maces reworked for another item? he mentioned he wanted to use a cutlass which is a 19-20 crit even with keen or improved crit that would only bring it to a 17-20 crit range... do you think giving him a lighting mace effect would be to broken?


Also is there any way to get lighting maces to work with light maces?

Lightning Maces already works with (and only with) light maces--it's a [weapon style] feat, not an item, from Complete Warrior. If you put the aptitude enchantment on a weapon (which, yes, is from ToB), you can count them as light maces for the purposes of weapon-specific things...like Lightning Maces. So if you give him a +1 aptitude cutlass and he takes Lightning Maces, he can get that effect in a rules-legal way.

RagnaroksChosen
2009-08-20, 08:07 AM
Lightning Maces already works with (and only with) light maces--it's a [weapon style] feat, not an item, from Complete Warrior. If you put the aptitude enchantment on a weapon (which, yes, is from ToB), you can count them as light maces for the purposes of weapon-specific things...like Lightning Maces. So if you give him a +1 aptitude cutlass and he takes Lightning Maces, he can get that effect in a rules-legal way.

True true.

I wasn't sure if there was an item out there that counted as a light mace. Or if there was a way to make that feat work with out aptitude.

tonberrian
2009-08-20, 08:15 AM
And a Lightning Mace-type effect isn't spectacularly broken on a 17-20 crit range, either. If his attack bonus is high, he's looking at around 1 or 2 extra attacks on a full attack, assuming he's got all the TWF feats. You just want to be careful if the crit range drops to 11-20 or lower - at that point, he can start getting more than double his normal amount of attacks.

elliott20
2009-08-20, 08:30 AM
Well sir first I think it has anime flavor. It has an eastern feel to it. which i think is anime fealing but regardless...

As someone of Asian descent and Chinese cultural upbringing, the notion of all eastern cultural references being equated to anime is a very uncomfortable comparison, to say the least.

if your game is not even optimized, then you really shouldn't need more than the combos that have already been mentioned in this thread. besides, I'm sure there is more he would like to do with it than just being a crit machine.

9mm
2009-08-20, 10:09 AM
Non-Tob melee help requires more than just the current build, but where you want to be in 6 levels later; what is the end game supposed to look like for the build? Personaly, i'd go Unearthed Arcana's generic warrior (it's a fighter, with choose your own skill list, saves, and can trade feats for class abilitys) and do something like this to abuse the aptitude enhancement:


1.Twf, wf: light mace
2. combat reflexs
3. Lighting mace
4 Power Attack
6 bull rush, Cleave
8 Wf: greatclub
9. Three montains
10 improved crit
12 flavor for taste, stunning crit


Now you have a guy who eventually can gain extra attacks on crit threats, possibly nausate on two hits, and can slow on 1 crit. But without knowing where you want to end up, it's hard to give advice; stats would be nice too.