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dragonfan6490
2009-08-19, 11:55 PM
Hello Playgrounders,

So I have a friend/player/fellow DM in my current D&D group. He didn't make it to my game tonite, which I was only running b/c he cancelled his game. So I'm talking to my players, you know, just shooting the breeze after the session ended, when one of them tells me that this player has been complaining about my game.

Huh? He's told me that he's been having fun and loving what I'm doing.

This seems to not be the case. They tell me that he feels like I'm not doing enough with his character, that I'm not giving him enough development hooks. I just look at them with a blank stare on my face, saying that I've given him more character development hooks than anyone else in the party, to which they agree. They also tell me that he has a problem with the amount of railroading I do, which I do railroad some, but I'd say its like a 6/10 on the scale.

The thing is, he railroads more in his game than in mine, and he just scraped his campaign alltogether, which annoys me also. In his game, it was more passive/aggressive railroading as well, my story has a rather linear plot, which takes them from point a to b to c, but if they happen to get off the rails to explore the scenery, I let them and bs my way through the session.

So, after this long, drawn out story, my question to ye, oh wise playgrounders, is what should I do? He's a good friend of mine, but this really bothers me that he doesn't come to me with this problem so that we can work it out.

mikej
2009-08-20, 12:03 AM
Just ask him. Ask him to be honest soo you can improved upon the game.

DM's should at some times ask thier players what they like, dislike, opinions and what they desire to do in game.

Tiki Snakes
2009-08-20, 12:09 AM
Penny Arcade has the answer. You know it makes sense. (http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2009/20090819.jpg)

Seriously though? He probably isn't comfortable bitching about how things are going to your face on account of being your friend in the first place. I'm sure if you sit him down and talk it over, civil like, you'll get to the bottom of this.

{Scrubbed}

Kylarra
2009-08-20, 12:11 AM
Well, one thing to do is to just get general feedback after a session (that he's in). "Hey guys, what do you think of the campaign so far, what sort of things do you want to see in further sessions, etc." That way it's not really directly confrontational, but he has a chance to air his grievances without him being forced to broach the subject in the first place. If that doesn't work and you still hear about him talking behind your back about the campaign, talk to him personally about it.

Seffbasilisk
2009-08-20, 01:48 AM
As previously suggested, I'll...what? Third? Fourth? Saying that you should confront him about it. Find a way to get him to tell you the truth, especially why he's been ducking you. Try mentioning that you can't improve upon the game unless you know of it's errors, and you'd like to make the game player-friendly and whatnot.

If he continues to just be passive-aggressive, then yes, I'd say:

Stop.

Hammertime.

Glass Mouse
2009-08-20, 02:00 AM
I like Kylarra's suggestion the best. It's less confrontational that way, the other players are there to start talking and laying the "groundwork" if he has a hard time complaining to you. And if he starts going off on a tangent or being unreasonable, the other players are there to support you (for instance, when it comes to those plot hooks).

If he doesn't speak up then, well... I'd be tempted to say, in that case, he doesn't feel strongly enough about this that you should bother changing your DMing.

Mastikator
2009-08-20, 02:22 AM
No offense, but it's also possible that he was simply trash talking you behind your back. Had he had real greivances he might have talked directly to you about them, instead of to a friend behind your back.
I really feel like I should stress that his character's character development is really his responsability, not yours, you just lay the framework of the world for him, in which his character can develop in, and explore.

ericgrau
2009-08-20, 04:50 AM
It's his loss if he won't be open about his complaints. But sit down and talk to him about it for his sake. If he listens great. If he's still stubborn then there's probably not much you can do. Be prepared to shamelessly expose him in case he's just bad-mouthing you behind your back. You wouldn't be doing him any favors to let that continue, even if his screwed up mindset tells him otherwise. In general just try to handle the situation as directly as you can to do what's best for everyone, fixing only what you can and not worrying about what you can't fix.

valadil
2009-08-20, 08:32 AM
Complain about his game to his face. Then it will be okay for him to complain back at you.

comicshorse
2009-08-20, 10:21 AM
Complain about his game to his face. Then it will be okay for him to complain back at you.

Or he'll feel he can't complain becuase now it will look like he's just trying to get back at you fro criticizing his game

Kylarra
2009-08-20, 10:23 AM
Complain about his game to his face. Then it will be okay for him to complain back at you.Yeah... no. The better idea is to avoid putting him on the defensive, because that makes people less amenable to reason.

Umael
2009-08-20, 10:55 AM
I'm hungry for feedback whenever I run a game. I must admit that part of it is because I'm trying to hear some words of praise, but for the most part I am trying to cater to the players. That's why one of the things I always ask at the end of a session is:

"Well, did you guys like it? Anything you didn't like? Anything you want to see more of?"

Sometimes it is obvious and they will tell me. Other times they pause and mention something, and I accommodate as best I can. Want more combat? Okay, let me see about making sure there is combat in the next session and that it is a little more intense than this session. Feel there is too many clues, not enough connection to the plot? Don't worry, it will all make sense, meanwhile I will see about making the connection more obvious.

If there is a player whom you think is not happy with the game, take a moment to talk to him outside of game and just ask right out. "Look, you're a friend, and a good one at that, and last Wednesday some of the other guys said that you said this... I was concerned... So is it true? Are you unhappy? Is there something I can do?"

Just keep things in perspective. If you have given his PC more plot hooks than anyone else, maybe he's just being fussy about it. Or maybe he thinks that you haven't let him explore any one of the twelve plot hooks you've given his PC, while he feels like someone else has gotten a lot further on both of the plot hooks her PC has.

valadil
2009-08-20, 11:17 AM
Yeah... no. The better idea is to avoid putting him on the defensive, because that makes people less amenable to reason.

It depends on how you go about complaining. Showing up with a litany of grievances to air is probably wrong. But you should be able to give/get accurate feedback, especially if this is another GM you've known for a while.

Kylarra
2009-08-20, 11:25 AM
It depends on how you go about complaining. Showing up with a litany of grievances to air is probably wrong. But you should be able to give/get accurate feedback, especially if this is another GM you've known for a while.Complaining by definition is pretty much negative. So there's a slight difference between "complaining about his game to his face" and "giving feedback on his campaign in a discussion about mutual enjoyment of games hoping to lead into him revealing his issues with your campaign".

The former I have issues with, the latter, still touch and go, but a lot higher chance for civility.

thegurullamen
2009-08-20, 01:07 PM
Or he'll feel he can't complain becuase now it will look like he's just trying to get back at you fro criticizing his game

This is where maturity needs to enter the scene. Passive-aggressive complaints, backstabbing, all that dramatic BS belongs in high school and maybe one or two backwards colleges. That's it.

Sounds like what's needed is a nice, long, very awkward conversation about everyone's approach to the game and to friendships in general. It's bound to be painful as will the following steps (because I truly believe PA behavior is something that should be scrubbed from the Earth with the Bleach of the Gods) but the end result, harmonious gaming with friends who respect you enough to confront you when they're uncomfortable, is well worth it.

Keshay
2009-08-20, 01:26 PM
For the record, this is not passive-aggressive bahavior. The disgruntled player is simply not being honest with you. By expressing thier displeasure to the others, they have acknowleged the greviance openly. A passive-agressive appraoch would have been to sabotage a gaming session (subtly or otherwise) through whatever means available.

From your description of the situation, it would seem that you have someone on your hands who wants to be "the star" of the campaign, or at least the center of attention. They most certainly got this sort of attention when they ran games as DM, but for whatever reason they are no longer able or willing to put that effort into runing the sessions. So now you have a player who wants to get the spotlight.

Did the other players tell you how they reacted to Mr. Disgruntled claims of neglect and railroading? They have as much vested to shoot down his claims as anyone else. If he already gets the most plot hooks, then certainly some of the other players may feel a bit neglected. (Though they may not be as high-maintenence as your diva.) Have them sort it out amongst themselves should complaints arise in your absence again.

And most of all, make sure he knows that if her really, really wants to be the center of attention... DM. It really the only surefire way.

dragonfan6490
2009-08-20, 11:19 PM
For the record, this is not passive-aggressive bahavior. The disgruntled player is simply not being honest with you. By expressing thier displeasure to the others, they have acknowleged the greviance openly. A passive-agressive appraoch would have been to sabotage a gaming session (subtly or otherwise) through whatever means available.

From your description of the situation, it would seem that you have someone on your hands who wants to be "the star" of the campaign, or at least the center of attention. They most certainly got this sort of attention when they ran games as DM, but for whatever reason they are no longer able or willing to put that effort into runing the sessions. So now you have a player who wants to get the spotlight.

Did the other players tell you how they reacted to Mr. Disgruntled claims of neglect and railroading? They have as much vested to shoot down his claims as anyone else. If he already gets the most plot hooks, then certainly some of the other players may feel a bit neglected. (Though they may not be as high-maintenence as your diva.) Have them sort it out amongst themselves should complaints arise in your absence again.

And most of all, make sure he knows that if her really, really wants to be the center of attention... DM. It really the only surefire way.

His thing is apparently that he's not taking the hooks, other players observations, not mine. And they don't feel particularly neglected, they are enjoying the game. He also apparently doesn't have enough self-confidence to DM.

Thanks for all the advice, keep it coming! This is good stuff.