Non-overpowered classes 3.5

[Sharkman1231]

Okay, what non-core classes would be in no way overpowered? Also I mean their powers/abilities compare to barbarian and pallys, not codzilla or wizards. This is because all my other party members are the following classes:

Melee fighter (greatsword)
Ranged fighter
Barbarian
Pally (charging, human)

Now because we lack magic, I'm almost always the caster in the party (druid or cleric) to provide healing and buffs and damaging spells.
Every other party member sucks at casters except for the pally's Player, and he plays pally's all the time.
My DM calls a lot of variant classes over-powered because they are really good to all the melee classes.
Thanks!

[AstralFire]

Overpowered is relative.

Anyway.

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1002.0

Anything in Tiers 4 and 5 is what you want.

[Draz74]

Some caster classes that might fit in well with this party include:


Warlock (no Hellfire Warlock PrC)
Shadowcaster
Warmage
Wilder
Dragon Shaman

[FMArthur]

With this many people focused on basic attacks, I think a bard is in order.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Warlock is on par with those classes, assuming you avoid Glaivelock Hellfire Cheese. It's decent arcane backup with the ability for blasting in several different flavors. Dragonfire Adept is another one, similar in concept, but better at battlefield control.

For healing... well... let's see.

Dragon Shaman can give everyone Fast Healing, but only up to half their total hit points.

You *CAN* go Cleric, just don't go CoDZilla. In fact, with all those melee classes, I'd suggest using the spontaneous (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/spontaneousDivineCasters.htm) variant, grab the Healing domain, and have fun. Pick up things like Shield of Faith, Barkskin (plant domain), Greater Magic Weapon, Magic Vestments... then pick up Chain Spell and Divine Metamagic: Chain Spell. Chain your buffs to your party. You don't become a minor diety, the whole party does

Bard is another good one that might do well in this party. They get heals, they get buffs like Haste, debuffs like Slow... they're not awesome at everything, but they are good at filling gaps.

Sorcerer is good, if you go with Party Support/Battlefield Control. Pick up GMW, Haste, Heroism... then get War Weaver to buff the whole party up. Grab a Metamagic Rod of Chain Spell for GMW. Also pick up the feat that gives you access to one domain, for Magic vestments.

[Draz74]

Dragonfire Adept is another one, similar in concept, but better at battlefield control.

I love the Dragonfire Adept, but I think it could be a bit overpowered in this party. But I guess some basic un-optimization, such as merely neglecting the Entangling Exhalation feat, could prevent that rather neatly.

[Eldariel]

Any ToB-class, really. They aren't more powerful than Barbarians, even if they are more versatile. Other than that, there's always Factotum, Binder & Incarnum, nicely at about the same level.

That does make going caster a bit harder though without artificially limiting yourself...which is what I'd do. Though Beguiler could be a nice alternative. Frankly, when needing to cover such a huge spectrum of magic though, I'd just go Cleric or Wizard for the largest list of options and manually tone down my spell selection.

[PId6]

Any ToB-class, really. They aren't more powerful than Barbarians, even if they are more versatile.
I'm going to disagree here. Optimized ToB isn't more powerful than optimized barbarian, but non-optimized ToB is far better than non-optimized non-ToB melee of any kind. A barbarian that doesn't know how to Power Attack properly is probably quite bad, while a warblade can still do 100 damage in one hit at least.

[Eldariel]

I'm going to disagree here. Optimized ToB isn't more powerful than optimized barbarian, but non-optimized ToB is far better than non-optimized non-ToB melee of any kind. A barbarian that doesn't know how to Power Attack properly is probably quite bad, while a warblade can still do 100 damage in one hit at least.

Ah, but the party seems to be relatively decent within their classes; charger paladin (they can really lay down the hurt), Greatsword wielding Fighter (there's hope) and a Barbarian (probably the best core class) along with an archer Ranger (meh). That's what I derived this off.

[PId6]

Ah, but the party seems to be relatively decent within their classes; charger paladin (they can really lay down the hurt), Greatsword wielding Fighter (there's hope) and a Barbarian (probably the best core class) along with an archer Ranger (meh). That's what I derived this off.
That's true. I'd still go with a bard though, since there's enough melee around. You get healing, skills, buffs, and UMD, not to mention Inspire Courage which would work very nicely in such a melee-oriented group. Plus, unless you really optimize spellcasting, they shouldn't be too powerful or outshine anyone, without having to purposefully gimp yourself much. Isn't this exactly what bard was made for?

[Epinephrine]

I'll secondthird? Bard, as well as the list of options provided by Draz74.

UMD will provide a lot of flexibility, which is a plus for the Bard, and Inspire Courage really takes off with that much melee. A Bard looks pretty much perfect for the job.

Worth noting that the bard may well add more damage to the party than any other character, but it won't seem like it. He'll be allowing many more attacks to hit, and adding to those that do, not to mention using spells like Haste, Tactical Precision, etc. if he wants to crank the melee effectiveness through the roof. Make sure to pick up Battle Hymn to give all those meleers a second Will save, they'll need all the help they can get ;)

[quick_comment]

Ninjas are fun to play, and not overpowered.

[sofawall]

Just don't go Dragonfire. People might get a heart attack when they see you do 16d6(average 56) extra on every attack..

[Epinephrine]

Just don't go Dragonfire. People might get a heart attack when they see you do 16d6(average 56) extra on every attack..

I'd go further than this, and say don't cheese the Inspire Courage at all. Even something as simple as using Inspirational Boost and having Song of the Heart provides some really solid bonuses. That's about all you need to make some good friends. They'll never want you to stop singing.

[Person_Man]

I'm of the opinion that the baseline for 3.5 should be the ToB, Complete Psionics (minus Wilder), Magic of Incarnum (minus Soulborn), and PHBII (minus Dragon Shaman) and Dungeonscape. That gives us the Warblade, Crusader, Swordsage, Psion, Psychic Warrior, Incarnate, Totemist, Knight, Duskblade, Beguiler, and Factotum. The real abuse in 3.5 comes from casters with huge spell lists, and the real crud comes from melee, skill monkey, and hybrid classes with non-scaling abilities and dead levels.

[deuxhero]

^I would add the rogue to that list personally.

Also, any idea what tier The Mind's Eye's Psychic Rogue (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723a) would be?

[erikun]

Also, any idea what tier The Mind's Eye's Psychic Rogue would be?
Probably tier 3, like the Psychic Warrior.

Also, why no Wilder? Especially when you're leaving in the Psion/Erudite and Ardent.

[Sinfire Titan]

Probably tier 3, like the Psychic Warrior.

Also, why no Wilder? Especially when you're leaving in the Psion/Erudite and Ardent.

I agree. You take out one Tier 2, but leave a pair of others and a Tier 1 behind to wreak havoc.