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draca
2009-08-20, 01:54 PM
I have a rather novice role-player friend, who has a tendency to make characters that annoy the piss out of everyone. She makes a lot of novice mistakes. A lot of her problems are from nerves, and being over-aware of her noobishness, and that restricts her from feeling comfortable in a character, which keeps her from enjoying herself, or doing anything in a logical or believable manner. She can be very passive aggressive if she feels too frustrated and overwhelmed, and I want to try to get her to a character where she won’t feel too restricted, or left behind, or overwhelmed. I have a strong feeling that the more characters she plays, the more she’ll find her stride, be able to get in to the game, and get along in character with everyone. I want her to have maximal fun, and everyone else too, so I think helping her get over the noob hump is best for everyone.

She’s about to make a new character for a 3.5 ed. game. I’m trying to think of what character type would give her the most freedom and let her feel like she can play the character she wants. She wasn’t totally satisfied with her last D&D character (an NG elf bard) and I don’t know if it’s the character or the short lived game that was the problem. I know bards have a stereotype around them, as do all classes really.

I tried asking her what kind of character she wants to do. I tried working backwards and saying, "describe who you want to play, and I’ll tell you how to make that in to a class/alignment/race etc." (that’s how I usually work). However, she doesn’t really have a strong idea of that either. I just can’t figure what way to steer her to give her a character she feels comfortable in.

She’s interested in playing a bard again, because of its versatility, but she admits she doesn’t really know the other classes, so she might be making a limited choice.

Are there some good questions I should ask her to figure out what she wants, so that I can make some good recommendations to her? Does anyone know some good advice for me, or to give to her?

Epinephrine
2009-08-20, 02:02 PM
Avoid anything that requires choosing from a huge list of options each round.

Avoid classes that require prerequisites (such as martial adepts), as it can be tough for new players.

I'd stick with classes with well defined powers, and short lists of them. As a caster, I'd go with Warlock, Dragon Shaman, or similar classes - no need to pick new spells carefully to cover all your bases. For melee types, I'd avoid characters with too many options.

We have a fairly new player in my campaign, and she's finding her favoured soul/warlock/eldritch theurge a bit overwhelming, as she has so many options in any round.

erikun
2009-08-20, 02:10 PM
Cleric is always a solid option, as she can just re-choose her spells each day. Look through the various domains and pick two that seem to fit her character. (Travel and Trickery? Idonno.) Just make sure she doesn't feel restricted into healing the party all the time.

Favored Soul is similar to the Cleric, but she can't change her spells afterwards. If you're choosing them for her, though, it may be less of a problem.

Factotum has a lot of options available, from all skills to fun with illusions/enchantment. I don't think you can re-choose easily, though, so be sure to choose skills and spells that she'll like using.

Druid has a bunch of options, from strong pets to strong attack spells to strong buff spells to summoning strong monsters to turning into a bear and ripping someone's head off. You may want to change the spontaneous Summon Monster into a spontaneous Cure Wounds, though, so she doesn't feel like she needs to memorize healing all the time. Like the Cleric, she may feel like she's restricted into being the healer, though. Also, Druid may be too many options.

Mr. Mud
2009-08-20, 02:19 PM
My Two Cents: Ask her, what her idea of a 4 player party is. Have her give Race and Class(es) for each. and maybe a small build concept? (ie, Batman). If she's having trouble there, have her skim over the appropriate handbooks until she feels more comfortable with the class/race in question. Then, build a high level character for each party member she thought up... Maybe if that campaign your about to start in is going to be level 3? Build her a level 10 Character. Explain what you're doing, what options you have at various stages, where different character could go, et cetera. Give her a variety of end products to choose from, them go back to the base class, and explain a bit more about it. She wants to take it in a slightly different direction that the original character, let her. If she literally wants the exact same character you built, well, roll it up. As long as she's learning, then you're doing something right :smallbiggrin:. Good luck.

Also, Sorcerers can be fun and creative, but not over whelming. Sort of the same idea of a cleric, but they're more versatile (which she apparently likes)?

Umael
2009-08-20, 02:37 PM
You could make a mini-game out of it.

Before she picks, do a role-play of her "choosing her destiny". Describe her walking down a hall of light, aware that her destiny is before her and unless she selects, she is featureless. At the end of the hall opens up into a room with seven doors. Each door depicts one of the seven main races. Describe in great detail the races as if seen from the perspective of a near-omniscient being that made an artististic interpretation of the race.

For example, the door that represents halflings is a simple wooden door with an image of a halfling exploring a mountain carved into it and the smell of good home cooking lingering.

When she picks one, her form changes into that of the race she selected.

Then describe how past the next door is another room, this time with doors that depict the various classes.

It might not get her to pick the best combination, but it should her in the actual character building process and hopefully get her to pick something that will interest her.

Hope this helps...

draca
2009-08-20, 03:12 PM
Good advice so far from all! Keep ‘em coming.

Here are a few more details. The party so far is all level 3, a dark elf wizard, a human paladin, a half-elf druid, a gnome bard, and a half-orc barbarian. We are managing to muddle along for healing, without anyone having to specialize in it yet. So, I think pretty much any class she wants to play is fine and would fit right in.

I think she does like the versatility. She likes having spells, and now that you mention it, likes the spontaneous casting (with a restricted spell list that means not too many options to overwhelm, and few enough powers to really know what each one does).

I may have had a mini breakthrough. She said she wanted a half-dragon. We all said, “No way, too complicated,” and she wouldn’t meet the level adjustment. We’ve been trying to keep it to the base books, but it may be a good thing to allow her to take a draconic template (with an elf base race). That opens other possibilities like taking the draconic heritage feat to allow for spell-like abilities even if she doesn’t play a caster. It’s a short list of spontaneous powers. It could work. I was worried that it could complicate things, but probably only in a good way, and the rest of the party are a bunch of freaks anyway. Ultimately, if it’ll help her be more excited and more at ease with her character, then I’m all for it.

Umael
2009-08-20, 03:17 PM
How about a half-dragon commoner? Or do an apprentice (0th-level) character half-dragon? Isn't there a monster-level progression for the half-dragon somewhere?

RagnaroksChosen
2009-08-20, 03:25 PM
Good advice so far from all! Keep ‘em coming.

Here are a few more details. The party so far is all level 3, a dark elf wizard, a human paladin, a half-elf druid, a gnome bard, and a half-orc barbarian. We are managing to muddle along for healing, without anyone having to specialize in it yet. So, I think pretty much any class she wants to play is fine and would fit right in.

I think she does like the versatility. She likes having spells, and now that you mention it, likes the spontaneous casting (with a restricted spell list that means not too many options to overwhelm, and few enough powers to really know what each one does).

I may have had a mini breakthrough. She said she wanted a half-dragon. We all said, “No way, too complicated,” and she wouldn’t meet the level adjustment. We’ve been trying to keep it to the base books, but it may be a good thing to allow her to take a draconic template (with an elf base race). That opens other possibilities like taking the draconic heritage feat to allow for spell-like abilities even if she doesn’t play a caster. It’s a short list of spontaneous powers. It could work. I was worried that it could complicate things, but probably only in a good way, and the rest of the party are a bunch of freaks anyway. Ultimately, if it’ll help her be more excited and more at ease with her character, then I’m all for it.
I had a player like that.. draconic elf dragon shaman and im sure she will be happy.

Altima
2009-08-20, 03:35 PM
Well, she can be a dragonborn. Or you could homebrew your own little thing (seriously, a drow wizard? Ouch, level 1 all over again--at level 3!). Yuan-ti are a good start, as they're the same LA as drow with the same attribute bonuses, including spell resistance and no con penalty.

You could also introduce her to the dragon disciple PrC.

It all really depends. If she's feeling the noob pressure, you *might* want to limit her options. LA races aren't real fun to play because they lag so far behind the party if the party itself is not LA heavy.

How about an Arcane Trickster? She can get spells, and the party seems to be lacking a trapfinder skillmonkey.

A sorcerer is also a good choice mainly because it's limited in its spells. She can become intimately familiar with a few spells (make sure you take the time to help her pick her spells) and because she's stuck with them, she can learn how to make the most out of them. She can put her head into the game.

Seffbasilisk
2009-08-20, 03:35 PM
I believe the book is Dragon Magic, where there are things like Silverbrow humans and such. One of those might fit the dragon theme for her...then why not just go straight sorcerer and help her choose her spells?


All the recent data aside, I would have recommended Warlock, because it's Spell Like Abilities are at will, lets her figure out attack rolls and whatnot, and while she has the option of holding the main spotlight, most often she'll just be a solid backup.

PId6
2009-08-20, 03:54 PM
I would say, Sorcerer with some Draconic Heritage feats, or Dragonfire Adept for the warlock-ness with a dragon feel to it. Both have a very limited list of spells/SLAs so they're easy to know, and both are pretty fun to play.

Project_Mayhem
2009-08-20, 03:57 PM
Nothing to add other than that I read noob as moob. Hilarity ensued.

Mr. Mud
2009-08-20, 03:57 PM
Nothing to add other than that I read noob as moob. Hilarity ensued.

How might one go about mentoring a man boob :smallconfused:?

Lord Loss
2009-08-20, 04:01 PM
If you have acces to PHB2, the duskblade seems to fit the bill. it has a nice mix of spells and GROCK SMASH STUPID HUMMMAN!!!!!. It is very versatile, so if your player decides they rather spellcasting, or decides they rather swords, they can multiclass into a spellcasting prestige class, Fighter, or combat prestige class.

Project_Mayhem
2009-08-20, 04:01 PM
How might one go about mentoring a man boob ?

Well, I carefully developed mine by strenuously resting one peck after another, and with hardcore Ben and Jerry's cookie dough ice cream reps.

Mr. Mud
2009-08-20, 04:03 PM
Well, I carefully developed mine by strenuously resting one peck after another, and with hardcore Ben and Jerry's cookie dough ice cream reps.

Aha! Tetious, yet effectively. Might I suggest a "Vote for Pedro" shirt, to maximize gains?

Project_Mayhem
2009-08-20, 04:03 PM
Might I suggest a "Vote for Pedro" shirt, to maximize gains?

You speak the truth

Calmar
2009-08-20, 04:48 PM
What about this (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030912a&pf=true)?
If she starts as half dragon 1/ bard 2 she should do quite fine. In case you don't want a PC with all half dragon abilities and if she doesn't mind, 1 level could even suffice.
+2 Int definitely adds to the character's versatility. :smallsmile:

Doc Roc
2009-08-20, 05:08 PM
I'm going to cut against the grain here:
No Full Casters.


Cleric is a wretched option for new players.
Sorcerer is better.
A highly optimized bard, or a Dragonfire Inspiration bard is an excellent option.

Warlock can be........ rough. Building a good warlock is very difficult, and can leave you in a position where you'll have to hold her hand through all of character creation.

My recommendation is that you sit down and help her make an Ardent, if she wants to play a caster. They're fun, elegant, powerful, and relatively simple.

If she wants to play a jack of all trades, you're totally screwed. That means a full-caster in actual practice, and you really don't want to force her into that situation.

Ideally, you want to offer her a class with no real bad options. This, fundamentally, is probably either the factotum or the wildshape ranger. The ardent can serve here, really well, if you grok psionics and can talk her through them. In short, You want something with a small set of varied and strong tactical options, and a good deal of utility outside of combat.


Also: Try giving her the Mercantile Background feat, which insures her a niche in the group as the go-to-girl for hunting down that just-so-hard-to-find item and actually buying it at a reasonable price.