View Full Version : Analyze This Monster 4th ed

HMS Invincible
2009-08-24, 06:38 AM
What do you guys think of this Monster? I thought the damage was a little low, so I gave it sneak attack. The tactics are listed, but you're suppose to play it as a snatch someone away, smack them, get them poisoned, and run away. Repeat until encounter is over. I can either play him alone or as part of an encounter with autosummoning minions of zombies.
Sorry for the unpolished look, but the monster maker can only do so much, and I'm lazy.

Mando Knight
2009-08-24, 07:09 AM
I see nothing.

Kurald Galain
2009-08-24, 07:24 AM
I think I just failed my spot check.

2009-08-24, 07:29 AM

Er... we would need to register to see that... also I think you'll need to host that off site for us to view it as an image. Try copy and paste on the text as a short cut.
Er no, it's worse than that "The selected attachment does not exist anymore."

HMS Invincible
2009-08-24, 07:40 AM
How about now?

2009-08-24, 07:59 AM
The various recharge attacks make little sense. Flyby attack is massively redundant.

It has a bit too much in the way of veto powers (invisibility, shift 20).

It isn't a leader.

It doesn't provide interesting "hunting" mechanics -- countering it consists of chasing it down.

It is large, which is strange for a lurker, especially at 4th level.

2009-08-24, 08:09 AM
what yakk said
plus it'll recharge flyby attack twice as often as drag and you need both to use either.
i'ts quite likely that after one use you'll never get to use it again.

plus what yakk said

Kurald Galain
2009-08-24, 08:17 AM
Tactics: do a flyby, drag the enemy as high as possible into mid-air, and release for massive falling damage. At least I assume that something called "flyby attack" means that the monster can fly, even though it doesn't have a fly speed.

Tactics 2: hide far away from the players. Go invis; the PCs cannot possibly have a way to detect that at low level. Now move until you're almost near them, then do flyby to get one character far, far away. Stay invis (the PC still doesn't know where you are exactly) and gank it until the rest of the party finally catches up. Then move away, go invis again, rinse and repeat.

Move 20 is way too much, as is "invisible until hit", and moreso since both recharge. Essentially, this is a puzzle monster: if the players don't figure out they should stick close together and ready attacks, they are doomed.

Oh yeah, why on earth is this named after the Greek god of the underworld? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hades

HMS Invincible
2009-08-24, 08:25 AM
Hmmm, I messed up on the diagram. The drag and flyby attack is suppose to be one attack on the same recharge and it isn't suppose to fly. I should refluff it as being dragged. I wanted it to drag it far enough away that the person who was ambushed has to fend for himself until the other PC's reached him.
I'll reduce the distanced dragged, and change invisibility to a stealth check.

Is chasing it down too boring? How would you address the concept of something hunting the PC's?

Mr. Mud
2009-08-24, 08:49 AM
How would you address the concept of something hunting the PC's?

With something like this. Problem is, having low level player characters doesn't give much access to bigger stalker baddies. Alternatively, you could have a toned down Fire Bat or something? Swooping in and attacking for a few round, the running off?

Kurald Galain
2009-08-24, 08:57 AM
Is chasing it down too boring? How would you address the concept of something hunting the PC's?

The problem isn't that it drags away a PC. The problem is that it (1) does so repeatedly, and (2) remains invisible while doing so.

I'd suggest making the invis a minor action that lasts for one turn. That prevents it from simply waiting invisibly until the drag recharges.

Mando Knight
2009-08-24, 10:21 AM
The problem isn't that it drags away a PC. The problem is that it (1) does so repeatedly, and (2) remains invisible while doing so.

It doesn't remain invisible. The invisibility discharges after it attacks. Actually, by RAW, it never becomes invisible. It's not a faerie dragon. :smalltongue: It will also never make the secondary attack with its claw unless it's named Dajani.

Other things:

Flyby attack: Makes no sense, and moves too far. It's faster than the creature's double move, and the thing can't fly at all otherwise.

Attack bonuses: +9 vs AC and +10 vs Fort? That doesn't seem right.

Role: It has nothing that makes it a Leader, and it operates like a Skirmisher (hit & run) rather than a Lurker (hit & hide), since its Flyby Attack recharges as fast as its Invisibility.

Recharging Powers: Too many. Make some of them encounter powers, others at-will. Drag could probably stand to be an at-will.

Drag in general: it has no range, even though it's marked as a ranged attack. Nor does it make sense as a ranged attack, since it grabs the target. Furthermore, other examples of "combo" powers (like Draconic Frenzy or Flyby Attack) use an at-will for the second power.

HMS Invincible
2009-08-24, 11:00 AM
Hmmm, hard to keep up with the comments.
Alright, so now I removed invisibility and gave it a recharge 5 fleeting ghost. I combined the drag and move into 1 attack, and separated the basic melee attack from it's poisoning attack. I should probably lessen the the ongoing damage.
Edit: Considering your remarks, changing the drag into an encounter power sounds good.
The environment is gonna be forested + night time.

Mando Knight
2009-08-24, 11:12 AM
Still seems to be more of a Skirmisher (moves while fighting) rather than a Lurker (hides to fight).

Also, some of its defenses are way off. AC should be 18, and Fortitude 17. I also don't know how you generated those abilities for a Lurker. Dexterity should be higher, Strength lower.

Kol Korran
2009-08-24, 11:25 AM
i see no reason for this critter to be an elite. what exactly does it gain from that except more hit points? it doesn't feel like an elite, and it's tactics don't warrant an elite. i'd suggest to drop the elite, and use the xp to place two regular draggers, who'll grab hold of tow different members ofthe party, and drag them into opposite directions! now the party faces a problem- which member are they going to save?

a few other things that i think might make this creature more interesting:
- in his fluff make it perhaps aking to ettercaps. might also give it one or two of their sigantue attacks, possibly changed (necrotic web or whatever, or give it a climb speed and high walls to climb and drag it's victims unto)

- find a way to justify fluff wise their dragging ability. true, it's not necessery, but it adds to the feel of the play. maybe it has multiple legs and hands, maybe it uses the aforementioned web, maybe it has velcro like hands like chokers (hey! it could be their undead version, instead of ettercaps)

- have it always fight alongside other allies (possibly ungrappable ones?), or in the vicinity of multiple traps (Ettercaps again)

Hope this helps.

HMS Invincible
2009-08-24, 01:13 PM
Alright, so the plan is 2 draggers + some combination of zombie rotters and zombies so that it equals 1000 xp which results in a lvl 4 encounter. This is against 4-6 lvl 1 PC's.

Wow, that took longer than I thought to fix. Stupid photobucket wouldn't update the image.

Mando Knight
2009-08-24, 03:33 PM
Wow, that took longer than I thought to fix. Stupid photobucket wouldn't update the image.

Photobucket, for some reason, hates it when you delete an image and then enter a new image with the same name.