New user unable to register

[Grey Knight]

I invited a friend to join the boards, as we were talking about setting up a play-by-post game and there is a thriving section dedicated to them here. However, after several attempts, she was unable to get past the human-verification step (i.e., the CAPTCHA and the OOTS Character questions). I tried to register the account for her, but I keep failing in the same way even after several attempts. Not sure if we both just need glasses; it seems like CAPTCHAs are getting very difficult to read even for humans these days (I definitely got the OOTS question right, I even spelt "Vaarsuvius" correctly :smallwink:).

Assuming that the verifier is working properly, could I PM the account details to an administrator to setup?

[Quincunx]

Maybe you're expiring a hidden timer connected to the image, if you are both taking too long to decode it and to answer the other question?

[Grey Knight]

Don't think I took overly long, but I just went and gave it another try to make sure. Took less than a minute to fill out the whole form, still nothing doing.

I noticed, actually, that the error message says I failed the "NoSpam verification question", which seems to be the title on the section with the OOTS cast member. Which is curious, because I'm definitely getting those right, I'd assumed it was the CAPTCHA that was the holdup. I tried answering Haley's picture both with and without her surname, and also got asked for Vaarsuvius' (who has no such dilemma), but no success.

[PhoeKun]

Have you tried not capitalizing the names of the OotS characters? If I'm not mistaken, that turned out to be the issue with another account I watched getting set up.

edit: to clarify, it was capitalizing the first letter of the name as appropriate for proper nouns that was the issue, when the filter is looking for an all lower-case answer.

[Stormthorn]

it seems like CAPTCHAs are getting very difficult to read even for humans these days

I second that. Why cant we have the type that has an image of a guy wearing a name tag along with an imput asking for the mans name? Or one that asks a math question?

[Mando Knight]

I second that. Why cant we have the type that has an image of a guy wearing a name tag along with an imput asking for the mans name? Or one that asks a math question?

Because of image recognition software. The idea of the nearly unreadable CAPTCHAs is to foil such software, which is less advanced than human pattern recognition.

[Stormthorn]

Because of image recognition software. The idea of the nearly unreadable CAPTCHAs is to foil such software, which is less advanced than human pattern recognition.

Hmm. I heard once that computers have trouble reading text in an image. (something about why spam emails often have text thats actualy images)

[Mando Knight]

Hmm. I heard once that computers have trouble reading text in an image. (something about why spam emails often have text thats actualy images)

They used to. Any dedicated spammer can easily invest in modern image recognition software... Microsoft OneNote actually works pretty well, and comes in Microsoft Office, a rather mainstream program suite.

[NerfTW]

Hmm. I heard once that computers have trouble reading text in an image. (something about why spam emails often have text thats actualy images)

Moore's law. Computer power doubles every 18 months. What you read last month might not even be true anymore, especially in a field such as face/image/word recognition. In fact, reading letters is simple. Especially when you know there's letters in the image.

[Yarram]

Omg... It's the biggest trek ever to get a friend signed up. We spent like 10 minutes experimenting before he could log on for the first time.

[Grey Knight]

She made it in! Victory is ours.

:thog: thog smash puny captcha!

[Delwugor]

I had the same problem when I registered here... but I'm a stubborn dwarf and not easily deterred from bothering people here. :smallsmile:

[The Neoclassic]

She made it in! Victory is ours.

:thog: thog smash puny captcha!

Congrats! What worked? Was it the captcha thing or (not) capitalizing the character's name?

[Limerence]

What actually did it..

I got the character name right.

What actually did it was when I typed in the letters in all lower case on the second image verification question.

I told my friend Honey about it and she said to just type it all in lower case. And it worked!

EDIT: I made a slight mistake in grammar.

[The_Skrypter]

What actually did it..

I got the character name right.

What actually did it was when I typed in the letters in all lower case on the second image verification question.

I told my friend Honey about it and she said to just type it all in lower case. And it worked!

EDIT: I made a slight mistake in grammar.

Here's an official "Welcome" statement from someone who doesn't say much here.

[Yarram]

Maybe some more specific instructions could be put on the registration screen? Saying which case the text is 'sposed to be, and whether or not both names are required to be inputted to get past the NoSpam. That confused us for a while.

[Fawkes]

Well, clearly, you must not be human. The system is working.

:smalltongue:

[Thanael]

No kidding. It took me like 20 tries to register.

[PhoenixRivers]

I wonder if image recognition software is able to check inverted images.

Hmm.

[Eserchie]

I wonder if image recognition software is able to check inverted images.

Hmm.
yes. it is.
However, it took my frontal cortex eighteen attempts to realize that automatic name recognition circuits in my brain were capitalizing the character names... and that the app was rejecting it for this reason. Statistically it would take a properly configured spambot only 6 on average. does this mean I'm a third as intelligent as a spambot?

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

It means that a spam-bot will not try the same combination twice, while a human will, convinced that what they wrote is the wrong answer, and that somehow they miss-typed it.

"Huh, it didn't work. I must have forgotten to capitalize it." vs "ERROR NEXT POSSIBILITY W/O CAPS

[Rawhide]

Thanks for the troubleshooting guys and please accept our apologies for the inconvenience. It is supposed to be case insensitive. i.e. You should be able to type ELAN, Elan, ElAn, elan, etc. Obviously, it is not and this wil need to be fixed. Also, you can do first or first and last name.

[Fostire]

Moore's law. Computer power doubles every 18 months. What you read last month might not even be true anymore, especially in a field such as face/image/word recognition. In fact, reading letters is simple. Especially when you know there's letters in the image.
Isn't Moore's law every 2 years?

Also:

Well, clearly, you must not be human. The system is working.

:smalltongue:
http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/suspicion.png

:smalltongue:

[Douglas]

Thanks for the troubleshooting guys and please accept our apologies for the inconvenience. It is supposed to be case insensitive. i.e. You should be able to type ELAN, Elan, ElAn, elan, etc. Obviously, it is not and this wil need to be fixed. Also, you can do first or first and last name.
This makes me wonder if it's something silly like checking for toLower("elan") == userEnteredString where it's supposed to be checking for "elan" == toLower(userEnteredString).

[Eserchie]

This makes me wonder if it's something silly like checking for toLower("elan") == userEnteredString where it's supposed to be checking for "elan" == toLower(userEnteredString).

Though hopefully with some basic filtering.
...hmmm.. maybe I should have just tried that first.(jks)

[Kobold-Bard]

I have a friend who just signed up to the site, and was having real difficulty reading the Image Verification image.

Would having an audio option be possible? She's managed to sign up now, but I've seen them on other sites and for future new users it could be helpeful.

Just a thought.

[Rawhide]

There is a temporary note asking people to enter the names in lowercase. If I got V, I would personally try again later :smalltongue:.

Audio is unfortunately not an option at this stage or for a very long time.

[xanaphia]

Slightly off topic, but as someone said earlier, image recognition gets better and better. What will happen when image recognition software is good enough to fool those Captchas?

[Rawhide]

Then we change it a bit.

The current method relies not on fooling image recognition software, but on being different to other sites out there. In order to register bots on this site, you have to specifically overcome the settings on this site only. That is a lot of effort for just one site. If one does decide to target here, we change it a little bit and it all falls down again, making it not worth their while.

[NerfTW]

Slightly off topic, but as someone said earlier, image recognition gets better and better. What will happen when image recognition software is good enough to fool those Captchas?

The same thing that happens in any other security area. You make something better. You can already defeat this and just about any captcha with the right program. The trick is that you make it HARDER for the common bot. Security is never a seal, just a roadblock.

It's the same rationale for locking your doors. Sure, the lock can be picked (easily by anyone who takes the time to train), or the window can be smashed, but the fact that the stumbling block is there deters the casual "Oh look, a purse on the street!" thief.

Security is always a game of staying ahead of the other guy. Most of the time, it's reactionary, waiting for someone to find a loophole first, then plugging it.

[Stormthorn]

Isn't Moore's law every 2 years?

Also:

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/suspicion.png

:smalltongue:

That somehow feels tragic.
An AI that advanced deserves a second chance.


I prefer the human verifications that ask questions or make simple demands. I recently say one that said "Type 1 as a word using letters" and i was all like "one"