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View Full Version : [3.5] Creating Alebeard Ironforge



Mushroom Ninja
2009-08-24, 10:33 AM
Meet Alebeard
He likes ale. He has a beard. He forges iron into weapons and armor. He hates sissy elves. He bashes things with traditional dwarven weapons. He talks in a ridiculous pseudo-scottish accent. He is the world's most stereotypical dwarf.

But, what are Alebeard's stats? Classes? That's where we come in. We must create a build for the most stereotypical dwarf in the world.

Rules:
Alebeard Ironforge is a dwarf. Therefore he hates sissy elves and all that they stand for. Thus he will not do something a sissy elf would.

Things Sissy Elves Would Do (Commentary by Alebeard):

Cast spells
- Spells are for sissises. Real dwarfs kill things with weapons. Which they forge. Out of Iron.
Have ranks in Sissy skills
- Dwarves don't use Tumble! They dodging hits is for elven cowards! Diplomacy?!?! Dwarfs use AXE not diplomacy!
Use sissy kung-fu
- Tiger Claw? Setting Sun? Desert Wind? Shadow Hand?!? Those are for elves! Dwarfs use the real stuff like Iron Heart and Stone Dragon.
Take Dwarven Defender.
- A class based around increasing defense? Sounds like the sort of thing an elf who's afraid to get hit would take! It's probably a trap anyway.

Things a real dwarf would do:

Use Dwarven weapons
Engage in Melee combat
Kill enemies in one blow
Forge Iron!


So now we have our challange. We must create a 20-level build for Alebeard Ironforge in such a way that will make him proud. He must be powerful, but truly dwarfish. No sissy elf stuff allowed!

woodenbandman
2009-08-24, 11:34 AM
Well, since we're using Dwarfy weapons, such as the urgrosh and the warpike and the waraxe, we'll need to take a level of Exotic weapon master, maybe 3. After all, a real dwarf learns the hell out of his weapon.

A real dwarf also doesn't waste feats on stuff he could get for free. So rather than waiting until 8th level to get that 3rd level stance, Alebeard ironforge takes 2 levels of Fighter. And none of those sissy "oh, I have a bonus feat." Alebeard Ironforge takes Dungeoncrasher and Improved Bull Rush, so he can crush those sissy elves against the side of a wall. And who avoids traps, when you can just ANNIHILATE THEM WITH YOUR AXE?

So your real dwarf ends up at the end with some 9th level maneuvers (the ones that matter, anyway) and 2x strength to damage on your dwarven weapons.

Something like Warblade3/Dungeoncrasher2/Warblade+2/Exotic Weapon Master3/Warblade +10.

arguskos
2009-08-24, 11:36 AM
Well, since we're using Dwarfy weapons, such as the urgrosh and the warpike and the waraxe, we'll need to take a level of Exotic weapon master, maybe 3. After all, a real dwarf learns the hell out of his weapon.

A real dwarf also doesn't waste feats on stuff he could get for free. So rather than waiting until 8th level to get that 3rd level stance, Alebeard ironforge takes 2 levels of Fighter. And none of those sissy "oh, I have a bonus feat." Alebeard Ironforge takes Dungeoncrasher and Improved Bull Rush, so he can crush those sissy elves against the side of a wall. And who avoids traps, when you can just ANNIHILATE THEM WITH YOUR AXE?

So your real dwarf ends up at the end with some 9th level maneuvers (the ones that matter, anyway) and 2x strength to damage on your dwarven weapons.

Something like Warblade3/Dungeoncrasher2/Warblade+2/Exotic Weapon Master3/Warblade +10.
But, can he FORGE IRON?! That's the most Dorfish thing ever, and I see no indication he can do so, which makes me sad inside. He better take full ranks in Craft (iron forging) and carry around a Portable Forge (real item somewhere).

Eldariel
2009-08-24, 01:04 PM
All the classes have Craft in class. That's about as far as you can take it without spellcasting (eww) or pseudo-casting like Artificer et al. You could go Battlesmith, but that's about Warhammers, not the Dwarven weapons like Axes. Besides, it sucks anyways.

I'd say this iconic Dwarf needs Deepwarden level 2. Dwarf blocks hits with his chest, not dodging.

woodenbandman
2009-08-24, 01:08 PM
There's always Ironforged Soulmaster. The class that uses the SOULS OF YOUR ANCESTORS to FORGE IRON to make it STRONG AS ADAMANTINE. That's right, adamantine, not wussy elf mithral.

Hadrian_Emrys
2009-08-24, 01:09 PM
+1 to somehow getting two in Deepwarden in there.

The Glyphstone
2009-08-24, 01:21 PM
...Nothing in Stoneblessed prevents a dwarf from taking it. Can we get more Dorfy than spending three levels to obtain a CLASS FEATURE that makes him count as a Dwarf? He's two Dorfs for the price of one!

arguskos
2009-08-24, 01:26 PM
...Nothing in Stoneblessed prevents a dwarf from taking it. Can we get more Dorfy than spending three levels to obtain a CLASS FEATURE that makes him count as a Dwarf? He's two Dorfs for the price of one!
This is the most Dorfy thing to have ever Dorfed. I approve!

Also, +2 Deepwarden and Ironforged Soulmaster. :smallbiggrin:

Eldariel
2009-08-24, 01:43 PM
If we're going for Dorfness, he'll be a friggin' Paragon, duh!

Myshlaevsky
2009-08-24, 01:50 PM
Needs to be able to take Phobia: Carp as a flaw.

Kylarra
2009-08-24, 01:52 PM
If we're going for Dorfness, he'll be a friggin' Paragon, duh!Yeah 3 levels of Dorf Paragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/racialParagonClasses.htm#dwarfParagon)

The Glyphstone
2009-08-24, 01:56 PM
Anyone object to making him Gestalt? We're running out of levels here without going Epic.

tonberrian
2009-08-24, 01:59 PM
Needs to be able to take Phobia: Carp as a flaw.

I don't know. I think fear is for elven sissies, not paragons of all that is Dorfy like Alebeard.

He needs a Belt of Dwarvenkind, and levels in Battlesmith. After all, Battlesmith lets you FORGE IRON and HIT THINGS with TRADITIONAL DORFY WEAPONS that you FORGED out of IRON!

The Glyphstone
2009-08-24, 02:00 PM
I don't know. I think fear is for elven sissies, not paragons of all that is Dorfy like Alebeard.

He needs a Belt of Dwarvenkind, and levels in Battlesmith. After all, Battlesmith lets you FORGE IRON and HIT THINGS with TRADITIONAL DORFY WEAPONS that you FORGED out of IRON!

and of course, IN A CAVE.


However, no self-respecting dorf would resort to making things out of A BOX OF SCRAPS, would they?

BRC
2009-08-24, 02:18 PM
and of course, IN A CAVE.


However, no self-respecting dorf would resort to making things out of A BOX OF SCRAPS, would they?
Actually they would, but first they would forge said scraps themselves, using nothing but two rocks. They would also forge an axe to cut down some trees, preferably they would do this in front of some pansy elves. They would use the wood from the trees to make the box, then they would forge the scraps, put them in the box.

Glimbur
2009-08-24, 02:28 PM
There's always Ironforged Soulmaster. The class that uses the SOULS OF YOUR ANCESTORS to FORGE IRON to make it STRONG AS ADAMANTINE. That's right, adamantine, not wussy elf mithral.

Incarnate 4/Fighter 1/Iron Soul Forgemaster 10/ ?. More Incarnate?

This is a dwarf who can forge magic arms and armor without being a spellcaster. Focus on soulmelds that are extra dwarfy like Adamant Pauldrons, Incarnate Weapon, Strongheart Vest, and Vitality Belt. He will play a lot like an Incarnate. He could make his own magic warhammer out of iron or whatever, or be Good and make it out of soulstuff. The only trouble will be the killing things in one blow.

sofawall
2009-08-24, 07:09 PM
I seem to recall Fistbeard Beardfist as being pretty dwarfy.

Mushroom Ninja
2009-08-24, 07:14 PM
Anyone object to making him Gestalt? We're running out of levels here without going Epic.

I'm certainly not against it. Nor am I against seeing Alebeard go epic. Whatever maximizes his Dorf Powar.

What sort of things should he do with his feats? I'm always fond of the Leap-attack-Combat-brute-Shocktrooper combo, but there may be an even more Dorfish way to kill stuff.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-08-24, 07:20 PM
I seem to recall Fistbeard Beardfist as being pretty dwarfy.

Me too. Running everything off of Con and whatnot.

The current build I'm thinking of is Strongarm Ranger 3 with the Trap Expert ACF / Thug Fighter 4 / Deepwarden 2 / Fist of the Forest 3 / Deepwarden 5/Dwarf Paragon 3

With the feats:

Poison Healer: heals 5 + Con mod every time you save against a poison. According to the Arms and Equipment Guide, alcohol is a poison with a scaling DC based on how many drinks you have within an hour. Requires Great Fortitude, which is also a perequisite for Drunken Master.

Steadfast Determination: uses Con mod in place of Wis mod for will saves. Also, a natural one on a fort save no longer is an automatic failure. Great feat, and the preprequisite is Endurance, which you get from being a Ranger.

The prestige class Deepwarden gives good fort and will saves, d12 HD, 6 + Int mod skill points per level, the Track feat at level one, and Con to AC as a untyped bonus at level 2.

Fist of the Forest gives Con to AC in place of your Dex mod at level one, good unarmed damage, and some miscellanious abilities later on.

Dwarf Paragon caps off the build to capture the essence of Dwarfness, much in the same way that the cap of a soda bottle captures the delicious carbonation of the beverage within. (Those more concerned with power should use levels of Deepwarden in place of Dwarf Paragon though.)

Fans of the old build may find it here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6404306&postcount=47). It involves Drunken Master, which allows you to increase Con or Str when drinking alcohol for even more fun.

Mushroom Ninja
2009-08-24, 07:24 PM
I seem to recall Fistbeard Beardfist as being pretty dwarfy.

While Fistbeard is very dwarfy, I wouldn't say he's exactly stereotypical since he beats sissy elves to death with his fists and beard rather than an axe/urgosh/hammer/etc.

His ale-powered face-beating, however, is basically as dorfish as one could possibly get.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-08-24, 07:36 PM
While Fistbeard is very dwarfy, I wouldn't say he's exactly stereotypical since he beats sissy elves to death with his fists and beard rather than an axe/urgosh/hammer/etc.

His ale-powered face-beating, however, is basically as dorfish as one could possibly get.

Read the post above. Zing!

Mushroom Ninja
2009-08-24, 07:37 PM
Read the post above. Zing!

Yikes! My post got Edit-invalidated! I have been most thouroughly zingged.

woodenbandman
2009-08-24, 08:32 PM
I posit that jumping is not Dorfy. Taking even a single rank of jump is unacceptable. And take levels of that ToB dwarf class, to make you more connected to stone and mountains.

How about like Warblade 15/that class5//incarnate5/Ironforged Soulmaster9/Exotic Weapon Master1/Incarnate +5.

Mushroom Ninja
2009-08-24, 08:40 PM
I posit that jumping is not Dorfy. Taking even a single rank of jump is unacceptable.

Yeah, I was wondering about that. In the end (much as I hate to say goodbye to leap attack) I've got to agree with you. Jumping is too evasive. Too elfy. I suppose the real dorf way to charge into combat involves more bullrush.

Elfin
2009-08-24, 08:45 PM
Anyone object to making him Gestalt? We're running out of levels here without going Epic.

Bah! Only sissy elves would need the best of two classes! A real dorfy dorf just goes epic!

How about making him a Warblade 10/Deepstone Sentinel 5/Dungeoncrasher 4/ Lion Totem Barbarian 1?
Simple and to the point.

Kylarra
2009-08-24, 08:57 PM
Bah! Only sissy elves would need the best of two classes! A real dorfy dorf just goes epic!

How about making him a Warblade 10/Deepstone Sentinel 5/Dungeoncrasher 4/ Lion Totem Barbarian 1?
Simple and to the point.

I posit that a build without Dorfen Paragon is not Dorfy enough.

The Witch-King
2009-08-24, 09:20 PM
I can't believe no one's said it yet.

I posit that the most dwarfish thing imaginable would be for Alebeard Ironforge to be able to drink beer, brew beer and kill people--ALL AT THE SAME TIME.

sofawall
2009-08-24, 09:36 PM
You forgot forging things out of iron.

Glimbur
2009-08-24, 10:19 PM
I can't believe no one's said it yet.

I posit that the most dwarfish thing imaginable would be for Alebeard Ironforge to be able to drink beer, brew beer and kill people--ALL AT THE SAME TIME.

Alright, let's focus on cramming our enemies into casks so that they can ferment. Barbarian so we can Rage to up our grapple into... I hate to say Reaping Mauler but I'm far too lazy to work up a full build now.

Hadrian_Emrys
2009-08-24, 10:46 PM
Fistbeard is the paragon of all things beard related, not of all things Dorf. A paragon of all things Dorf must be able to drink like a fish, craft all things Dorfy (such as all metal objects [even Mithral, as the crafting and appreciating the objects are not the same as actually using them] such as tankards, weapons, and armor), beat things to death with a hammer and/or axe (though a weapon that is both hammer AND axe is ideal), and generally endure all the things that sissy elfs avoid.

In order to accomplish this, certain options stand out as those that must be included (there are other options that fit into this catagory, I just wanted to get the listing started):

Classes:
Deepwarden 2 (the only good Dorf is a Dorf that can stand their ground)

Craft Skills:
Alchemy (ale and less important things)
Armorsmithing (Dorfs wear HEAVY armor)
Weaponsmithing (Dorfs hit things with weapons)


I'd also like to see the use of:

Domains:
Artifice (+4 competence bonus on craft checks and Conjuration-Creation spells are cast at +1 caster level)
Cavern (the bonus to notice unusual stone work is bumped to +4)
Competition (+1 to all opposed checks)
Craft (Conjuration-Creation spells are cast at +1 caster level, gain Feat: Skill Focus (craft of your choice)
Creation (Conjuration-Creation spells are cast at +1 caster level)
Dream (immunity to fear effects)
Feast (immunity to ingested poisons and diseases)
Metal (gain the feats: Martial Weapon Proficiency or Exotic Weapon Proficiency and Weapon Focus with your choice of hammer)
Pact (Appraise, Intimidate, and Sense Motives are class skills)
Passion (Rage for cleric level number of rounds per day as an SLA)
Pestilence (Immune to all diseases, though still able to carry)
Feats: Craft Wonderous Item

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-08-24, 11:10 PM
Fistbeard is the paragon of all things beard related, not of all things Dorf.
I shall refute thee thus.


A paragon of all things Dorf must be able to drink like a fish
Drunken Master.


craft all things Dorfy (such as all metal objects [even Mithral, as the crafting and appreciating the objects are not the same as actually using them] such as tankards, weapons, and armor) So put a few points into Craft and call it a day.


beat things to death with a hammer and/or axe (though a weapon that is both hammer AND axe is ideal)
He uses an Urgrosh, the Dwarviest of all weapons.


and generally endure all the things that sissy elfs avoid.
Doesn't he?

Hadrian_Emrys
2009-08-24, 11:24 PM
Drinking: Fistbeard's booze fueled training as a Drunken Master is, indeed, worthy of the Dorf master race.

Crafting: Fistbeard not only has 5 ranks in Jump, but 18 in Tumble. In his single-minded desire to master the mighty beard, he has fallen to the elf side. No amount of ability to forge arms and armor can undo that taint.

Axes and Hammers: Fistbeard uses but his body and beard. While the former may be moderately Dorfish, unless he were to reshape his beard into some sort of axehammer, he still fails to live up to a true Dorf Paragon standard.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-08-24, 11:30 PM
Drinking: Fistbeard's booze fueled training as a Drunken Master is, indeed, worthy of the Dorf master race.

Crafting: Fistbeard not only has 5 ranks in Jump, but 18 in Tumble. In his single-minded desire to master the mighty beard, he has fallen to the elf side. No amount of ability to forge arms and armor can undo that taint.

Axes and Hammers: Fistbeard uses but his body and beard. While the former may be moderately Dorfish, unless he were to reshape his beard into some sort of axehammer, he still fails to live up to a true Dorf Paragon standard.

1. His beard, after the Morphing Enchantment, can be made into an axehammer.

1. The variant I outlined above does not use tumble and uses an Ugrosh in addition to his beard.

Frosty
2009-08-25, 01:25 AM
This thread is too hilarious and must not die! We also need an ELF version of this thread.

Elfin
2009-08-25, 01:28 AM
What would the stereotypical elf be called?

arguskos
2009-08-25, 01:33 AM
What would the stereotypical elf be called?
Mialee. :eek: It's everything that Alebeard Ironforge is not.

Connington
2009-08-25, 01:40 AM
Elf wouldn't work, because that race lacks the pop culture stability of the Dwarf. You'd be torn between the people who wanted the elf to be woodsy, the people who wanted a woodsy-hippy, the ones who preferred ultra magic elves, or emo elves, or racist elves, or ambiguously gendered elves.

Besides, to the best of my knowledge, there is no spell, feat, or prestige class that makes your ears longer and pointier.

Elfin
2009-08-25, 01:41 AM
Mialee. :eek: It's everything that Alebeard Ironforge is not.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mailee_color.jpg
Argh! Noooo! It burns!!!!!!!
*sobs and shakes violently*

arguskos
2009-08-25, 01:46 AM
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mailee_color.jpg
Argh! Noooo! It burns!!!!!!!
*sobs and shakes violently*
"You're playing with dangerous forces here."
"We know what we're doing."
*everyone dies*

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-08-25, 02:01 AM
Besides, to the best of my knowledge, there is no spell, feat, or prestige class that makes your ears longer and pointier.

Ruathar :smallsmile:

sofawall
2009-08-25, 02:13 AM
This thread is joining a great history of legendary Elf vs. Dwarf threads!

I would like to some, but 1) they're in Gleemax, and 2) they were linked in someone's sig, so it would take too much work to find them.

Elfin
2009-08-25, 02:15 AM
Wait, if we're turning this into an elf vs dwarf thread-
I'd choose Alebeard Ironforge over Mialee any day, but elves vs dwarves in general? Dwarves don't stand a chance.
Of course, you can probably tell as much just from my name.

sofawall
2009-08-25, 02:26 AM
Well, there were mentions of an Elf thread to go with this one. It seemed somewhat Elf vs. Dwarf.

Also, Elves? Pff, no way. What can they do? Mechanically, they are inferiour. Fluff-wise, no two designers could decide what they were, so 1/5 are awesome at everything, 1/5 are just good mages, 1/5 are treehuggers, 1/5 are sailors and 1/5 are savages.

The Glyphstone
2009-08-25, 02:30 AM
More like 99.99% are grey elf wizards, and the remaining .01% are split between the nine hundred bazillion subraces of elves.

Elfin
2009-08-25, 02:35 AM
What do elves do?
Who was it who went toe-to-toe with a god?
An elf, as it happens.

Zen Master
2009-08-25, 03:15 AM
My own uber dwarf isn't so much a build as a number of greetings (which is to be taken literally - this is what he says to strangers when he meets them, depending on race).

Human: 'Pfeh ... Humans. Oh, you just think yer soo clever, don't ya? Well aye've got summat for ye ta figure oot. 'Tis a riddle ... I call it 'da riddle of pain.' I'ma carve into yer face - with me axe!'

Elf: 'Oh aye ... elves. Well it must be [weekday] then. Call yeselves an elder race, but all ye's got to show fer it is hugging trees, and dainty li'le swords and bows, singin and dancin and gods of stone and thunder be damned daffodils and daisies. Oo - lemme guess: I just bet ye gave yer flimsy little weapons names too - like bloody dolls. I bet tha scimiter ye have is 'song o da forest' and yer bow is 'whisperin wind', eh? Well I just gave a name to me axe aswell - just now. I call it 'I'ma create a bloody geyser of blood where yer head used ta be!'

Duergar: 'Ah ... duergar. Well I s'pose we oughta just get da formalities sorted, so's we can get doon ta business. *charge* (at which point fistfights ensue - in my view, dwarves don't kill each other, but will gladly pummel each other to pulp ... then trade for forgegoods and news).

There are more of these, but I suppose this is enough to get the point across :)

sofawall
2009-08-25, 03:28 AM
What do elves do?
Who was it who went toe-to-toe with all gods?
An elfkobold, as it happens.

Fixed it for you.

Mushroom Ninja
2009-08-25, 07:20 AM
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mailee_color.jpg


MAN ALL BATTLE STATIONS! A GIANT FROG-FACED SISSY ELF IS UPON US!

Now that I've got that out of my system:

The more I look at fistbeard, the more dorfy he seems. Though it is true he has both jump and tumble, he can turn his beard INTO A FREAKIN' AXE!

Perhaps we are doing wrong in trying to find the one perfect build for Alebeard. Perhaps there are multiple sufficiently dorfy builds?

shadow_archmagi
2009-08-25, 07:33 AM
Alebeard Ironforge, like all dwarves, has no fear of carp. In fact, he'll attack them at every opportunity. This is why they are such powerful adversaries. Because when you can't swim and have six layers of leather, trying to tackle the fish is a bad idea.

Cieyrin
2009-08-25, 11:45 AM
Needs to be able to take Phobia: Carp as a flaw.

Needs Phobia: Trees, too. Which makes Fist of the Forest kinda weird for a dwarf, really. We'll ignore the name and fluff for being more dorfish.

Flickerdart
2009-08-25, 11:54 AM
Needs Phobia: Trees, too. Which makes Fist of the Forest kinda weird for a dwarf, really. We'll ignore the name and fluff for being more dorfish.
He is the Fist of the Forest because he fells trees with his bare hands, and then uses them as fuel for his forge.

bosssmiley
2009-08-25, 12:18 PM
You want the most dwarven dwarf ever? Play B/X D&D, home of the Dwarf class.
Your character's entire persona is that he is an angry knee-hacking beer-soaked beard on legs.

Eldariel
2009-08-25, 12:29 PM
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mailee_color.jpg
Argh! Noooo! It burns!!!!!!!
*sobs and shakes violently*

That's not an elf! That's a space station! ...or a battle toad (http://www.freshmanandy.org/eyegasm/orig/battletoad.jpg)

chiasaur11
2009-08-25, 12:33 PM
Fixed it for you.

Toe to toe isn't accurate, as that implies the gods were the Kobold's equal.

woodenbandman
2009-08-25, 01:18 PM
I think I wanna give this one to either fistbeard beardfist or the one that uses Ironsoul Forgemaster.

Another_Poet
2009-08-25, 01:33 PM
I am disappointed in all of you...

...you haven't given Alebeard Ironforge a BURROW SPEED yet!

Because real dorfs don't use a SHOVEL to dig. THEY DIG THROUGH ROCK AND STONE WITH THEIR BARE TEETH. Faster than a racing snail!

A level in one of the Totem Barbarian variants would probably do it, unless someone knows of a feat somewhere.

ap

Random832
2009-08-25, 01:39 PM
I am disappointed in all of you...

...you haven't given Alebeard Ironforge a BURROW SPEED yet!

Because real dorfs don't use a SHOVEL to dig. THEY DIG THROUGH ROCK AND STONE WITH THEIR BARE TEETH. Faster than a racing snail!


You are incorrect.

Dorfs use a copper pick to dig.

Using this copper pick, they have a base burrow speed of five feet per two rounds, increased by five feet per two rounds per rank in Profession (Miner)

It's all right there in the description of the "dorfish mining pick" weapon.

(however, they can engrave art in stone walls with their beards)

sofawall
2009-08-25, 06:19 PM
Because real dorfs don't use a SHOVEL to dig. THEY DIG THROUGH ROCK AND STONE WITH THEIR BARE TEETH. Faster than a racing snail!


Do I sense a Fowl influence?

Mushroom Ninja
2009-08-25, 06:22 PM
Do I sense a Fowl influence?

Mulch may be a dwarf, but he is no DORF. Sneaking into peoples' houses and stealing?!?! Sissy elf stuff!

quick_comment
2009-08-25, 06:22 PM
Does meldshaping count as spellcasting?

Because I think incarnate/ironsoul forgemaster is pretty dwarven. Toss in a level or two of warblade.

Mushroom Ninja
2009-08-25, 06:26 PM
Does meldshaping count as spellcasting?

Because I think incarnate/ironsoul forgemaster is pretty dwarven. Toss in a level or two of warblade.

I would tend to think meldshaping isn't the sort of thing sissy elves would do. After all it requires CON, doesn't it?