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Kokaka
2009-08-24, 02:27 PM
Hi all.

So, me and my friends are about to start a DnD campaign using the gestalt rules, and I'm stuck when it comes to build a character.
I got a pretty good concept with a background story of a natural weapon fighter, using fangs and claws to defeat the enemy, being vicious in combat but has a scholar like demeanor.
First of all I must say that DnD is not my "main" rpg so I only know the basics of character creation and game mecanics.

Anyhow, the gm has not been telling us our starter level but it is usually lvl1, lvl5 or lvl10 using the gestalt rules, and we are not alowed to use psionics.
So my plan is to play a natural weapon fighter, it would be coolest to be some sort of were creature where weretiger (:smallconfused:) is my top priority, or some sort of deamon thing or even a vampire.
Tough I don't know if these races or templates are good at all and if this is just waste of lvl's I would have no problem playing something that can shapechange into something coolish.
I would also gladly like to cast spells if possible but it's not a criteria, since unarmed fighting is the first priority.

My rolls 15, 12, 18, 17, 16, 10 are the best I have ever rolled so I'm in need of a char who can justify this awesomenes.

So, if anyone have some tips on how to make this char or even bother to make a compleate char I would be very greatful.

Mongoose87
2009-08-24, 02:37 PM
Gold Dragon//Sorcerer.

/Thread

Sinfire Titan
2009-08-24, 02:48 PM
Totemist//Warblade

Totemist//Swordsage

PsiWar//Warblade

Glimbur
2009-08-24, 03:01 PM
I was going to suggest Totemist from Magic of Incarnum also, but since that has been covered, Kobold (with the web enhancement to get claw/claw/bite) Warblade//Rogue

Frog Dragon
2009-08-24, 03:04 PM
This is not the most optimized route, but.
Barbarian//Druid. You should probably take the PHBII variant and use magic fang on those claws. Focus your feats on flurries (not the sucky monk ability) of claw/bite attacks. Improved Natural Attack and other such feats would be great. The classes are great for conveying "ahh these herbs should make a fine potion of... what? enemies? HULK SMASH!!" Also. Shifters. That is all.

Kokaka
2009-08-24, 03:12 PM
Ok, thanks all for the tips, but since my knowlage of DnD is very basic, it would be great if you guys could give me some advices on feats, abilities and the like since I'm quite lost outside players handbook :smallfrown:.
Oh, and the biggest bonus of all would be to play some tiger thing, mmm weretiger fluff.

Sinfire Titan
2009-08-24, 03:16 PM
Ok, thanks all for the tips, but since my knowlage of DnD is very basic, it would be great if you guys could give me some advices on feats, abilities and the like since I'm quite lost outside players handbook :smallfrown:.

This is the Incarnum Handbook if you go Totemist//Anything (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=551.0).


Arguably, everything in Magic of Incarnum works best in Gestalt games.

ColdSepp
2009-08-24, 03:23 PM
Totemist. Use it. Natural attacks are best with it.

PinkysBrain
2009-08-24, 04:19 PM
Natural weapon damage without some magical way to upgrade the base damage is pretty sad ... so yeah, totemist or psionic (with Claws of the Beast).

Lycanthropes are pretty poor in gestalt games ... the LA is a problem for normal characters, double so for gestalt characters. Would your DM allow you to half the LA? (Since it's gestalt it seems fair to me.) Also you don't get the pounce special attack in hybrid form.

Mongoose87
2009-08-24, 04:20 PM
Natural weapon damage without some magical way to upgrade the base damage is pretty sad ... so yeah, totemist or psionic (with Claws of the Beast).

Lycanthropes are pretty poor in gestalt games ... the LA is a problem for normal characters, double so for gestalt characters. Would your DM allow you to half the LA? (Since it's gestalt it seems fair to me.)

LA doesn't only apply to one side of the Gestalt?

PinkysBrain
2009-08-24, 04:23 PM
This is not the most optimized route, but.
Barbarian//Druid. You should probably take the PHBII variant and use magic fang on those claws.
How do you suggest doing that? Either no spellcasting or no claws. Shapeshift druid does pitiful damage with his natural attacks anyway ...

PinkysBrain
2009-08-24, 04:26 PM
LA doesn't only apply to one side of the Gestalt?
Generally no, but it differs by DM.

ColdSepp
2009-08-24, 04:29 PM
Generally no, but it differs by DM.

Huh, I thought it was just the opposite.

Mongoose87
2009-08-24, 04:29 PM
Generally no, but it differs by DM.

That's kinda broken.

PinkysBrain
2009-08-24, 04:39 PM
Not very weretigery.

Sinfire Titan
2009-08-24, 04:48 PM
Not very weretigery.

Shifter Totemist 20//Warblade 20 focusing on Tiger Claw strikes and using soulmelds that grant claws and bites (like Girallon Arms). More Tiger than you'll ever need to be.

woodenbandman
2009-08-24, 04:49 PM
Totemist//Monk/Black Blood Cultist.

You can add your unarmed strike into your full attack routine, and as your unarmed damage step increases, your grapple check damage also increases. Black blood cultist is from... somewhere and it allows you to eventually add your natural weapon damage, all of them, to your grapple damage on a successful grapple check. Combined with Totemists's soulmelds, some of which can grant you a constrict attack, and Monk allowing you to flurry your grapples, this pretty much stacks up to a win all around.

Thrawn183
2009-08-24, 04:56 PM
What about feral? I guess Psychic warrior could also use the claws. Though i'm not sure you're able to use those in conjunction with any other natural attacks *facepalm*

archerpwr
2009-08-24, 11:31 PM
Wizard//Anything.

Polymorph+Buffs. You'll get more natural attacks with better bonuses and damage that way. Granted, polymorph is practically cheating, but just persisting draconic polymorph at level nine (you are an incantatrix, right?) will get you amazing natural attack routines all day long.

Alternatively, psychic warriors using the claws of the beast and bite of the wolf powers are pretty playable. Takes a little finesse in build, but in actual play they're less of a headache shifting around numbers than your average totemist build.

UserClone
2009-08-25, 12:21 AM
I am currently running a Feral Half-Minotaur Human (LA+3, due to houseruling) Barbarian3/Fighter1//Totemist7 to great effect. Girallon Arms, Woo! Let's talk about five natural weapons on a pounce!!

Person_Man
2009-08-25, 09:20 AM
I am also a huge fan of the Totemist. But if you can't buy/borrow Magic of Incarnum, my suggestion is Psychic Warrior 20//Swordsage 20.

Take the psionic powers Claws of the Beast, Claws of the Vampire, and Expansion. Take the feats Improved Natural Attack, Karmic Strike, and Robilar's Gambit. You're now a classic King of Smack build, with ToB manuevers and stances.

UserClone
2009-08-25, 11:34 AM
You can't take Improved Natural Attack unless you have your own natural attack. Which the power only temporarily grants you. How are you qualifying, by having the power active just at the moment you are leveling?:smallconfused:

quick_comment
2009-08-25, 11:40 AM
Kobold (with web enhancement) Totemist 20//Tauric Fleshraker 6/Warblade 14

Kobold gets you 2 claw attacks. Tauric fleshraker gets you 2 more, fast movement, leaping pounce, poison and other goodies. Warblade 14 gets you 9th level maneuvers.

Sophismata
2009-08-25, 02:32 PM
You can't take Improved Natural Attack unless you have your own natural attack. Which the power only temporarily grants you. How are you qualifying, by having the power active just at the moment you are leveling?:smallconfused:

Take a level of Monk, or Unarmed Swordsage, then. That should work :D.


A monk’s unarmed strike is treated both as a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.

Faleldir
2009-08-25, 04:40 PM
You can't take Improved Natural Attack unless you have your own natural attack. Which the power only temporarily grants you. How are you qualifying, by having the power active just at the moment you are leveling?
Of course! You usually gain XP after an encounter, and the power lasts several hours. That's like saying a Warlock can't take Flyby Attack.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-08-25, 05:22 PM
You can't take Improved Natural Attack unless you have your own natural attack. Which the power only temporarily grants you. How are you qualifying, by having the power active just at the moment you are leveling?:smallconfused:If you have the natural attack for 12+ hours a day(not unreasonable), then you have claws more often than you don't, which seems a fair way to qualify for the feat.

Kokaka
2009-08-26, 02:59 AM
Thanks for all the tips everyone.

So, I have looked around on alot of different classes and will go either Totemist/Swordsage or Totemist/Warblade, and either human or shiftling.
If I go human I think I will take the, Sacred Vow and vow of poverty at my first level to try to cualify for the saint*.
If I go shifling I have absolutly no idea what to take for feats, so I need some help on that part.

So yeah, if anyone have som tips on some good feats for this build I would be extreamly happy.

*How do you become a saint? I´ve read somewhere that you need Vow of Poverty for it but I dont know what you need more

sofawall
2009-08-26, 03:20 AM
Saint is a template, I think you just need to be good.

Also, I strongly advise NOT taking Vow of Poverty. It's a trap, as Admiral Ackbar can attest.

Kokaka
2009-08-26, 03:51 AM
Saint is a template, I think you just need to be good.

Also, I strongly advise NOT taking Vow of Poverty. It's a trap, as Admiral Ackbar can attest.

A trap? I thought it was awesome. Could you explain why its a trap since at first glanse it just look ridiciolusly good.

Zincorium
2009-08-26, 09:02 AM
A trap? I thought it was awesome. Could you explain why its a trap since at first glanse it just look ridiciolusly good.

Magic items are just too good, as they can be used to specialize against opponents or generalize (Bane arrows, anyone?) without getting too expensive.

Good DMs don't just randomly steal/disenchant items.

Two feats at low levels ain't chump change. And the bonus exalted feats are sharply limited and rarely any good.

You lose all your abilities if you pick up a gold piece.

Clerics can't cast spells, per RAW, that require a focus.

At best, you'll be on par with everyone else.

Sinfire Titan
2009-08-26, 09:10 AM
A trap? I thought it was awesome. Could you explain why its a trap since at first glanse it just look ridiciolusly good.

Totemists, Druids, Incarnates, Clerics, Psions, and PsiWars can use VoP without it being a complete trap. Everyone else can do far better with the WBL, as all but 1 of VoP's abilities can be duplicated by magic items (that 1 being the +8/+6/+4/+2 to 4 ability scores, but only because of the +8).

There's also the lack of flight, the lack of special materials to overcome DR/Cold Iron or Silver or Adamantine (or whatever the Daelkyr are vulnerable to), the lack of good Exalted feats after a certain point (even Clerics and Druids have trouble picking Exalted feats), the lack of support for VoP at all, and the fact that your stats will always be behind when compared to someone using Tomes/Manuals of X+Belt of Magnificence or normal stat boosters.

UserClone
2009-08-26, 10:15 AM
I think you have to be sixth level to be a Saint - lemme look that up.

Yep. BoED, page 26, under Sainthood. All the requirements are spelled out, including the level requirement.

Kokaka
2009-08-26, 01:07 PM
I think you have to be sixth level to be a Saint - lemme look that up.

Yep. BoED, page 26, under Sainthood. All the requirements are spelled out, including the level requirement.

Oh, thanks. Well I don't think this char will become a saint the since I wont use Vow of Poverty and I will probably use my feats for other things. Objections?

As it stand now, I think I will go for a totemist/warblade OR a totemist/swordsage, whichever is better/more fun, and then get som fun PrC.

Since the Human with the Vow of Poverty is out the window, I will play as a shiftling and have been thinking of giving him the feral template.
Does anyone think that the template will be a good one for this char?

UserClone
2009-08-26, 01:26 PM
Well the Warblade nets you full BAB and a big ol' hit die, so I'd go with that.

Kokaka
2009-08-26, 02:21 PM
Well the Warblade nets you full BAB and a big ol' hit die, so I'd go with that.

Ok. I have been leening towards Warblade so Warblade it is.
Now the big question, should I take the feral template and if so, which one of the totemist/warblade should I trade of at Lvl1?

Then comes the feats. Since I've never done a character outside of the Core and Compleate books and even there my knowlage is limited. This is the first time I play something else than a caster and using both the ToB and MoI I would appreciate if someone could give me some pointers on feats.