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Nero24200
2009-08-24, 02:56 PM
Hello all.

I was looking for a little advice. I'm a long-term 3.5 player and trying to introduce a new player to the game. The player herself is completely new to D'n'D (and even roleplaying) so when she asked to learn, I figured it might be best to go with 4th Edition, since it seems really easy. However, this assumption is made based on paper, I've virtually no practise with it.

She's thinking of an elven rogue. At first glance, alot of the stuff seems very team focused, so to give her a bit of an edge I was planning on a DMPC (possibly starting and remaining a level below her) and was thinking warlord (for the team boosting benifits).

To those with alot of 4th Edition experience, is there any major pitfalls I should watch out for?

Kylarra
2009-08-24, 03:01 PM
Are you doing a 1 on 1 game or what here? I'm a bit confused.

Sinfire Titan
2009-08-24, 03:02 PM
4E was built around combats that assume a 5 man band. It's going to be very up-hill if you use the CRs as presented in the MM, especially with the more broken encounters (like Needlefang Drakes or any kind of Elite or Solo). She's going to need much more than a lower level NPC ally to help her out. Ask her to get a few friends together who show interest in learning, or avoid combat encounters that aren't hand-made NPC Villains.

And never, ever use Skill Challenges, especially pre-errata.

FoE
2009-08-24, 03:04 PM
4E is very team-focused, but it's possible to play with groups that are smaller than four. Two-man parties work best with a Striker and a Leader, so you're smart to play a Warlord (or a Cleric, or a Bard) if she's playing a rogue.


And never, ever use Skill Challenges, especially pre-errata.

I get the pre-errata part —*OP, you should look on WotC's website for the errata on skill challenges, as the system presented in the original DMG is wonky —*but I don't get the whole "don't use skill challenges" advice. They're not well-suited to small parties, but I can see some situations where they'd be valuable.

Nero24200
2009-08-24, 03:06 PM
Sorry, yes it will be a one PC game. Saddly, since I honestly don't know anyone else interested in 4th Edition RL (Only know one gamming group and well...let's just say their side on the "Edition Wars" was clear) so getting a large group might not be an viable option.

I figured I should avoid "Elite" and "Solo" encounters, but would tonning down regualr monsters make for an easier fight? Nammly by tonning down hit points, maybe shave some AC and saves etc and damage?

FoE
2009-08-24, 03:12 PM
Solos are probably a bad idea, though I don't see why you can't use the occassional Elite. Elites are really just "two monsters for the price of one." Solos, on the other hand, are meant to take on large parties because they have multiple attacks and tons of HP.

The most important thing is to the keep to the experience budget outlined in the DMG and never use creatures that are four levels higher than the PC or three levels below.

As for HP, 4E monsters tend to be a bit more resilient, so you might also consider shaving monsters' HP by one quarter until you feel more confident about the player's abilities.

Kylarra
2009-08-24, 03:14 PM
You'll be basically DMing on the fly. The typical monster CRs won't be applicable because you'll have less than half the expected group. The DMPC should be at the same level as her, and probably a cleric or bard would be better than a warlord in this instance, since a warlord's special abilities trigger off when people use action points, so he shines better in larger parties. Cleric is nice healing, and if you want to keep all the action on her, you can play a debuff type "pacifist" cleric. Bard is a more rogue-ish leader, so you can do rogue-y things together and take advantage of decent stealth scores et al.

Sinfire Titan
2009-08-24, 03:19 PM
4E is very team-focused, but it's possible to play with groups that are smaller than four. Two-man parties work best with a Striker and a Leader, so you're smart to play a Warlord (or a Cleric, or a Bard) if she's playing a rogue.



I get the pre-errata part —*OP, you should look on WotC's website for the errata on skill challenges, as the system presented in the original DMG is wonky —*but I don't get the whole "don't use skill challenges" advice. They're not well-suited to small parties, but I can see some situations where they'd be valuable.

The Gamer Den has a thread discussing why Skill Challenges, even post-errata, don't work the way they should. It takes a party of 5 just to get an 80% chance of succeeding a simple (read: low DC, low number of rolls) Skill Challenge. The higher the DC and more skill checks you need to make for a single challenge, the odds drop rapidly. A pair of characters who are limited by class stand next-to-no chance of passing a skill challenge.

Nero24200
2009-08-24, 03:27 PM
Would simply shaving off hit points suffice? Or, due to the low number of characters, should I lower things like damage and ability scores to make the monsters weaker a little more overall?

I'll take a closer look at the cleric, though bard isn't really an option since I don't have the rules. I only own the PHB, DMG and MM, none of the additional books.

(Oh, and thank you to everyone for the advice so far, sounds like some really good pointers.)

FoE
2009-08-24, 03:32 PM
No, if you're using level-appropriate encounters, you don't really need to take down AC and damage. That's really why you don't use monsters that are a lot higher than the character's level; they are nigh impossible to hit. But level appropriate monsters should be OK.

And don't be stingy with loot! 4E didn't solve the "characters decked out in magic items" problem; magic items are still very important to character progression. I don't know what your feelings on this subject, but if you don't like it, then you have to suck it up.

(The DMG also has advice for adjusting the treasure packages for party size.)


The Gamer Den has a thread discussing why Skill Challenges, even post-errata, don't work the way they should. It takes a party of 5 just to get an 80% chance of succeeding a simple (read: low DC, low number of rolls) Skill Challenge. The higher the DC and more skill checks you need to make for a single challenge, the odds drop rapidly. A pair of characters who are limited by class stand next-to-no chance of passing a skill challenge.

I'll agree with you that skill challenges would be extremely difficult to run with a one-man or two-man party. But that's as far as I'll concede the point.

Overall, OP, you should find DMing 4E to be a little easier than 3.5E. At least putting together adventures is quicker.