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Doc Roc
2009-08-24, 04:32 PM
Spellguard Rings let you make the person wearing the other part of the set immune to a spell you cast.

Assuming full magic\psi transparency, what happens if you manifest Forced Dream, make your friend immune, time-hop forward, and then roll the universe back?

Notes:

The immunity is executed as part of the manifesting, as per paying the cost, so it's not rolled back.
There are a variety of similar effects if psi\magic transparency isn't complete, but for now, let's examine forced dream.
Forced Dream is found in Magic of Eberron.
Spellguard Rings are from Complete Mage.

arguskos
2009-08-24, 04:45 PM
Uh... um... uh... paradox! The universe implodes! :smalleek:

Also, more seriously, I have no idea.

Tiki Snakes
2009-08-24, 04:51 PM
Spellguard Rings let you make the person wearing the other part of the set immune to a spell you cast.

Assuming full magic\psi transparency, what happens if you manifest Forced Dream, make your friend immune, time-hop forward, and then roll the universe back?

Notes:

The immunity is executed as part of the manifesting, as per paying the cost, so it's not rolled back.
There are a variety of similar effects if psi\magic transparency isn't complete, but for now, let's examine forced dream.
Forced Dream is found in Magic of Eberron.
Spellguard Rings are from Complete Mage.


"Listen: Billy Pilgrim has come unstuck in time."

PId6
2009-08-24, 04:52 PM
"Listen: Billy Pilgrim has come unstuck in time."
So it goes.

chiasaur11
2009-08-24, 05:00 PM
Ahem.

Snake. You can't do that. You changed the future. You created a time paradox.

Frerezar
2009-08-24, 05:05 PM
What book is Forced Dream from?

Myou
2009-08-24, 05:09 PM
"You can't mess with the Space-Time Continuum like that. Roll initiative."

RTGoodman
2009-08-24, 05:13 PM
What book is Forced Dream from?

Magic of Eberron, as it says in the first post.

arguskos
2009-08-24, 05:30 PM
"You can't mess with the Space-Time Continuum like that. Roll initiative."
I'd just skip the initiative altogether.

"Quaruts appear and drag your character into the dark nothingness of oblivion. Roll a new character."

Myou
2009-08-24, 05:49 PM
I'd just skip the initiative altogether.

"Quaruts appear and drag your character into the dark nothingness of oblivion. Roll a new character."

"The Quaruts drag him off too. Here, I statted out an NPC you can play, he has five levels in Commoner."

RTGoodman
2009-08-24, 05:53 PM
"The Quaruts drag him off too. Here, I statted out an NPC you can play, he has five levels in Commoner."

"Hey, with the Educated feat, I can get enough ranks in Knowledge (The Planes) to know about this demon lord..."

Myou
2009-08-24, 05:54 PM
"Hey, with the Educated feat, I can get enough ranks in Knowledge (The Planes) to know about this demon lord..."

"The Quaruts dragged him off too. Something about temporal omniscience and kobolds."

Doc Roc
2009-08-24, 07:35 PM
So:

Does your friend become

Unstuck in time?
temporally annihilated?
duplicated?
the way he left you, marooned for all eternity in the center of a dead planet?

Olo Demonsbane
2009-08-24, 07:51 PM
Could you describe exactly what Time Hop has to do with it? Im kind of confused by that...

Doc Roc
2009-08-24, 07:54 PM
It's a stand-in to put some time "between" the beginning of your turn and the end of it, while maintaining your time line so that you can roll things back with forced dream. You don't really need it, but it makes the example more illustrative.

arguskos
2009-08-24, 07:59 PM
"Hey, with the Educated feat, I can get enough ranks in Knowledge (The Planes) to know about this demon lord..."
"Oh ****, here come the Quaruts again. Gods, can you STOP breaking the universe?!"

Anyways, on topic, I'd say that your friend is fine, but is brainblown from having experienced another universe that wasn't real.

Doc Roc
2009-08-24, 08:03 PM
Anyways, on topic, I'd say that your friend is fine, but is brainblown from having experienced another universe that wasn't real.

Explain a little? :: curious look ::

arguskos
2009-08-24, 08:08 PM
Explain a little? :: curious look ::
Isn't that what Forced Dream does? Shunt you someone into an alternative universe, and when it ends, you snap back to this reality? Considering that you are probably protected by the spell, your buddy has no such protection, and gets shafted by the snapback effect.

Or, have I gotten confused with all the fun alternate reality tricks Forced Dream somehow creates?

Doc Roc
2009-08-24, 08:15 PM
Not sure how directly I'm allowed to quote it, but what it does is that it allows you to restart your turn, rolling everything back to the state it was in at the beginning of the turn in which you activate it.

We manifest forced dream.
End turn
Start turn
Time hop
---------
come out of time hop
Discharge forced dream, rolling everything back to the way it was at the start of our turn, which just happens to include some intervening turns that we ourselves skipped.


Our friend, however, lived through them. However, he's "protected" from the rollback of the universe. He doesn't get reset when we restore the universe's state to that of our turn's beginning.

9mm
2009-08-24, 08:18 PM
So:

Does your friend become

Unstuck in time?
temporally annihilated?
duplicated?
the way he left you, marooned for all eternity in the center of a dead planet?


Your friend becomes Scarlet Flandre, and she's pissed. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHmzO2RI1fs&feature=related)

Doc Roc
2009-08-24, 08:23 PM
Considering that I was going to use it to tuck away Neo-Terminators from inside the far realm, then temporal regress the entire universe, leaving "sleeper cells" outside space and time with no point of temporal origin, I think that's an accurate assessment of the situation.

Signmaker
2009-08-24, 08:43 PM
Considering that I was going to use it to tuck away Neo-Terminators from inside the far realm, then temporal regress the entire universe, leaving "sleeper cells" outside space and time with no point of temporal origin, I think that's an accurate assessment of the situation.

That's quite the jail cell you're trying to pull.

Fax Celestis
2009-08-24, 08:44 PM
Same Trick, Different Mechanics: use Spell Stowaway!

shadow_archmagi
2009-08-24, 08:48 PM
So, basically

"We teleport into the future and then look around and then turn back time except our friend doesn't go back with us which means he's trapped in an alternate future"

?

Doc Roc
2009-08-24, 08:55 PM
So, basically

"We teleport into the future and then look around and then turn back time except our friend doesn't go back with us which means he's trapped in an alternate future"

It's hard to say. Either he gets trapped in an alternative future, or.... the other options I mentioned.

Signmaker
2009-08-24, 08:57 PM
It's hard to say. Either he gets trapped in an alternative future, or.... the other options I mentioned.

And if he hunts down AU you to try and port him back? :smallconfused:

Doc Roc
2009-08-24, 09:01 PM
"Then he deserves a chance at revenge."

olentu
2009-08-24, 09:02 PM
Ok well it has been a bit since I looked at the power but I am pressed for time so I am going on memory of the wording. So if I remember the power correctly then when the power is activated then it sets everything to the condition it was in at the start of the turn including position, uses of abilities, HP, and so forth. So from what I remember there does not seem to be any time travel the universe is just set to the same specific state that it was at the start of the turn. So the person immune is just not set to the same state he was at during the start of the turn and while this might cause problems if the planet moves or he is standing in someones square there does not seem to be anything more then that from what I remember the power saying.

AgentPaper
2009-08-24, 09:13 PM
Obviously, the player who was left wherever does an IRON HEAR SUUUUURGE!!! and the players leave for an hour for the DM to figure out what the heck happens and how to explain it.

arguskos
2009-08-24, 11:31 PM
Ah, in that case Tide, I'd probably say the poor fellow is trapped in an alternate universe that never happened. However, it's not a prison, since the universe he's in has everything this one does. It ALSO has him in it, which ours doesn't. Basically, you're making new time streams for criminals to be evil in, which, admittedly, is pretty frikkin' sweet. :smallbiggrin:

Doc Roc
2009-08-24, 11:34 PM
Okay, I'm going to see if I can't get my nick changed, and maybe someone will scribble me up an avatar of The Doctor.

chiasaur11
2009-08-24, 11:42 PM
Obviously, the player who was left wherever does an IRON HEAR SUUUUURGE!!! and the players leave for an hour for the DM to figure out what the heck happens and how to explain it.

Explosions.

Time itself explodes. And then the explosions explode.

And then Sam Vimes is stuck in the past while a couple of monks try to sort the whole mess out.

Eldariel
2009-08-25, 08:16 AM
Explosions.

Time itself explodes. And then the explosions explode.

And then Sam Vimes is stuck in the past while a couple of monks try to sort the whole mess out.

At that point, you honestly need Teferi & al. in their Planeswalker incarnations. Otherwise see Dominaria post-Karona disaster for what happens (basically, time periods intermingle, places fall outside the time stream, etc).

Kaiyanwang
2009-08-25, 08:43 AM
"You can't mess with the Space-Time Continuum like that. Roll initiative."

Similar. I'd say

"2d6 advanced to maximum HD parragon phanes suddenly appear"

kamikasei
2009-08-25, 08:54 AM
So presumably he'd remain in the alternate non-future you unmade with Forced Dream. And that, didn't we establish elsewhere, is a real place accessible through the Plane of Dreams? So the manifestation of the power turns it from a temporal paradox to a parallel universe problem with no time offset headaches.

The real question is, while he must not be carried "back" from the dream like the rest of the universe, does the past-now-real universe the dreamer awakens into contain its own copy of the friend? Is this a ridiculous way to duplicate people? Will one of them end up with a goatee?

Yes, I am actually aware that transporter-duplicate Kirk and Mirror Universe Spock are not the same kind of thing and that duplicate!Kirk didn't get a goatee, nor was he strictly speaking evil.

Nerdanel
2009-08-25, 09:10 AM
I think I would just rule that the friend's wounds don't vanish and his expended spells stay expended and so on, and that he suddenly reappears wherever he was in the future that never happened as the timestreams are shunted together.

If the friend has picked up an item, either one of the duplicates will vanish as the timestream forces itself back into consistency. It just wouldn't do to duplicate major artifacts (or even gold pieces) in this manner.

FinalJustice
2009-08-25, 09:48 AM
The sheer geniality among playgrounders always manage to surprise me. Every poster above me in this thread should be awarded two internets and a side salad of his/her preference. The OP for the amusing finding, the others for making this thread hilarious. Congrats, guys. ;)

FMArthur
2009-08-25, 10:01 AM
You may expect a visit from certain individuals who do not take such transgressions in good humor. (http://d20npcs.wikia.com/wiki/Ouroboros,_Great-Great-Great_Wyrm_Cometary_Dragon)

Killer Angel
2009-08-25, 10:20 AM
You may expect a visit from certain individuals who do not take such transgressions in good humor. (http://d20npcs.wikia.com/wiki/Ouroboros,_Great-Great-Great_Wyrm_Cometary_Dragon)

In the meantime, rocks fall...

Cieyrin
2009-08-25, 10:25 AM
"The Quaruts dragged him off too. Something about temporal omniscience and kobolds."

"Here, your new character is a commoner with the average array. You can multiclass out when you've reached 30th level."

Doc Roc
2009-08-25, 10:28 AM
I've had people tell me I couldn't even play commoners. :|

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-08-25, 10:30 AM
I've had people tell me I couldn't even play commoners. :|

Chicken Infested. Most broken flaw ever.

FMArthur
2009-08-25, 10:58 AM
Right, Chicken Infested. I keep forgetting that it's a flaw and not an epic feat.

Doc Roc
2009-08-25, 10:59 AM
And this is why I never bring up Dragon, EVER.

lesser_minion
2009-08-25, 11:02 AM
OK, first question: Can you be immune to Forced Dream? If the power doesn't allow resistance then you can't be immune to it.

Second question: what exactly is so special about Chicken Infested and where is it?

Yora
2009-08-25, 11:03 AM
Well, it's called Forced Dream and is cast on yourself.

So nothing happens. Because "it was all just a dream".

You cast the spell on yourself and experience a dream within a fraction of a second. At the same time you friend is standing next to you and can't be the target of another forced dream spell.



I believe the intention of the spell is to run a short simulation to see "what would happen if I ...?" It's a telepathy power after all, which is only mind affecting.

FMArthur
2009-08-25, 11:13 AM
OK, first question: Can you be immune to Forced Dream? If the power doesn't allow resistance then you can't be immune to it.

Second question: what exactly is so special about Chicken Infested and where is it?

Chicken Infested is a commoner-only flaw from Dragon Magazine. Any time you pull something out of a sack or pouch or any other container, there is a 50% chance that you pull out a live chicken instead. So imagine pulling things out of a spell component pouch, which is a free action, repeatedly until you have flooded the area with chickens during the course of your turn.

Grey Knight
2009-08-25, 11:24 AM
You could get a "Langoliers"-style plot arc out of this, with the spell stunt merely as the plot hook.

Grommen
2009-08-25, 11:29 AM
It would be the end of the world as we know it.
But I feel fine. :smallbiggrin:

Your gonna need new characters though as it is really boring to play with ones self. Kinda like Myst only without the pretty graphics.

CockroachTeaParty
2009-08-25, 12:31 PM
This is why I love 3rd edition!

Myou
2009-08-25, 12:34 PM
"Here, your new character is a commoner with the average array. You can multiclass out when you've reached 30th level."

"I even gave you a flaw so that you can get a free feat - Quadriplegic!"

lesser_minion
2009-08-25, 02:17 PM
Chicken Infested is a commoner-only flaw from Dragon Magazine. Any time you pull something out of a sack or pouch or any other container, there is a 50% chance that you pull out a live chicken instead. So imagine pulling things out of a spell component pouch, which is a free action, repeatedly until you have flooded the area with chickens during the course of your turn.

Isn't it only a free action if you draw something from a spell component pouch as part of casting a spell (i.e. it shouldn't actually be listed as an action at all)? I'm sure a DM would be justified to treat merely retrieving an item from a spell component pouch as normal.

Oh, and just to complete the derail, I'm very certain that Pazuzu's description does NOT say that he grants Wishes. It says that he will, under certain circumstances, help out his victim and will use his wish SLA if this is the most convenient way to do so. It takes a very liberal interpretation of the rules to successfully get a Candle of Invocation out of the guy.

I'm referring to the Dragon magazine version, however, so it might have changed for the Fiend Folio.

blazinghand
2009-08-25, 03:45 PM
Alternatively, you could have them preemptively attacked by a chronerut (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4145921&postcount=6).

The Random NPC
2009-08-26, 12:00 AM
I would take it one of two ways. First as a strange way of teleporting, ie. manifest forced dream, friend walks where ever he wants, and then when time is rolled back, he "appears" at his new location. Second, that there is nothing to be immune to as it only effects one creature, is called forced dream, and is mind-affecting at that.

Doc Roc
2009-08-26, 12:05 AM
The issue is the precise wording of spellguard ring suggests that it makes you immune to the effects of spells cast by the primary wearer. This is.... really vague.

Zaq
2009-08-26, 12:14 AM
You're going to have to explain this to me again, perhaps more simply. As I read it...


Activation: A spellcaster activates the power of spellguard
rings as a free action in conjunction with casting a spell. They
function up to three times per day.
Effect: In order for them to function, both spellguard ring
must be worn—the gold ring by a spellcaster, the bronze one
by anyone else. When the rings are activated, the wearer of
the bronze ring becomes immune to any spell cast by the
wearer of the gold ring, as long as that spell is cast within
1 round. (Emphasis added)

It doesn't say "immune to any negative effects of the spell cast." It says immune. That means it doesn't happen. You manifest Forced Dream on your friend with the ring active, and nothing happens. You burn some power points and go on your merry way.

So how exactly are you getting your friend affected-by-but-immune-to Forced Dream? Seems to me like it's one or the other, and as I read it you can't apply the spellguard rings after the fact. You have to activate the immunity as you're manifesting, right? That's what the bold part of that quote means.

Either there's a step I'm missing, or this is impossible for reasons other than just the time duo of PhDs. Get it? Time pair o' docs. I'd apologize, but I'm not sorry.

Sintanan
2009-08-26, 12:50 AM
But, if you force reality as we know it to become a dream via this spell... Does that mean you effectively create a multiverse inside a plane (The realm of dreams)?

And, as for your friend... you force reality to become a dream, but he can't be turned into a dream..

Therefore you rewind this new reality to before anything happened... so there's two of him??


---------------
Basically... IMHO, if you pull this stunt the DM should take a few moments to think of any possible plot hooks before he rules what happens.

The plot hooks at this point:
1) There's a new dreamstate in the Realm of Dreams.
1a) This dreamstate mimics reality perfectly, save for your friend's absence, and this goes into a butterfly effect.
1b) This dreamstate vanishes, and leaves a lone dreamstate version of your friend floating in the realm of dreams. This dreamstate friend could become a twisted version of an Inspired or Quori.
1c) There's a new demiplane of the multiverse, with the only link to this demiplane's existance being a single person (your friend).
2) You've undone time-space, even if only for a moment. You'll have a/many chronerut(s) after your backside.
3) You get counterspelled by something/someone and your Spellguard rings break.
4) Your spell fizzles, for it cannot legally affect all targets appropriately. Draw a card.
5) See rod of wonders for ideas.
6) See deck of many things for ideas.
7) See warp touch (?) disease from the Book of Vile Darkness for ideas.
8) See one of the many alternate reality concepts found in media.

Doc Roc
2009-08-26, 01:11 AM
You're going to have to explain this to me again, perhaps more simply. As I read it...

(Emphasis added)

It doesn't say "immune to any negative effects of the spell cast." It says immune. That means it doesn't happen. You manifest Forced Dream on your friend with the ring active, and nothing happens. You burn some power points and go on your merry way.

So how exactly are you getting your friend affected-by-but-immune-to Forced Dream? Seems to me like it's one or the other, and as I read it you can't apply the spellguard rings after the fact. You have to activate the immunity as you're manifesting, right? That's what the bold part of that quote means.

Either there's a step I'm missing, or this is impossible for reasons other than just the time duo of PhDs. Get it? Time pair o' docs. I'd apologize, but I'm not sorry.


Forced dream isn't manifested on your friend. It's a personal power that happens to change the state of the entire universe. Your friend is theoretically immune to this change.

What now?

Alleine
2009-08-26, 01:12 AM
I'd rule that he would be shoved forward in time to a world that will never catch up to him/he will have a really hard time slowing down to. The only creatures he would ever meet would be creatures that exist outside of time or other time travelers who hopefully can send him back to when he came from.

It would have to turn into a quest though. Because it would be an awesome quest with some sweet temporal-related benefits after he gets back. You, however, would get in trouble with Quaruts.

Doc Roc
2009-08-26, 01:30 AM
Quaruts are delicious.

Zaq
2009-08-26, 02:26 AM
Forced dream isn't manifested on your friend. It's a personal power that happens to change the state of the entire universe. Your friend is theoretically immune to this change.

What now?

Immunity doesn't work that way. That's like casting Wall of Stone with the Spellguard Rings on, then claiming that since your friend is immune to that spell, he can walk through the wall.

lesser_minion
2009-08-26, 04:32 AM
You cannot be immune to any spell that doesn't allow spell resistance, because for a spell not to allow SR, one of two things must apply:

You are not actually exposed to the supernatural element of the spell, only its mundane consequences The spell was cast by you and is designed to only affect you (self-only spells automatically cut through your resistances and immunities)


However the mechanics work, my impression is that Forced Dream only affects you - you play out the next few events in your head, and if you don't like them, you go back and try things again. The only effect the spell has on anyone else is the mundane consequence of the spell's effect on you.

There is the theoretical exception of a 'super-spell' that punches through all SR, but such a thing should not exist, so I'm ignoring it.

Doc Roc
2009-08-26, 10:21 AM
Actually there are a couple of your super spells running around out there. But...

The issue is that it doesn't grant spell immunity as per the typed ability, nor does it use that description. It literally just offers up immunity to a spell you cast, allowing you to specify the spell. Specific trumps general, and as you can specify any spell or (assuming transparency) power....

Zaq
2009-08-26, 11:05 AM
Here's perhaps a more concrete example. Your argument, as I see it (please correct me if I am mistaken):

-You manifest Forced Dream on yourself.
-Your friend is immune to this casting of Forced Dream (on you, mind) via Spellguard Rings.
-Therefore, when you "roll back" Forced Dream, your friend is not affected, even though that's mostly an effect of how you interact with the world rather than the spell acting upon your friend.

Would you, by the same logic, claim that if you cast Bull's Strength on yourself and make your friend immune to it via the Spellguard Rings, then when you smack your friend, he takes damage according to your normal strength and not your enhanced strength, since he's immune to your increased strength? Because that's pretty much what I'm seeing you saying here. Forced Dream, like Bull's Strength, just changes how you interact with the world, not actually affecting your friend in any way that accepts immunity.

Doc Roc
2009-08-26, 11:12 AM
I wouldn't argue that, actually. Forced dream doesn't just change the way you interact with the world, it changes the state of the world. Would you find temporal regression to be a more solid example?

Grey Knight
2009-08-26, 11:24 AM
I don't have the book myself. I would like to check the description to see whether it really is affecting the entire universe, as opposed to being a "dummy run" of the future within your own mind. This seems to be the key point.

Of course, I am assuming that the description actually does specify which of these is the case. We have all read D&D sourcebooks before of course, so I am sure nobody will be surprised if it is vague and unclear. :smallwink:

lesser_minion
2009-08-26, 11:25 AM
The thing is, the power at no point directly affects your friend , so there is no way for him to be immune to it.

The premise behind the power, IIUC, is that you peer into the future that would result from you undertaking a particular action. If you don't like it, you take a different action. If you like it, things play out as you foretold. This is represented by you rolling back the turn.

How can your friend be immune to you magically playing out events in your head?

Hijax
2009-08-26, 11:32 AM
i agree that, logically, this shouldn't work with forced dream. however, only the fluff aspects of forced dream notes it to be a dream state. the rules aspect says, crystal clear, that i can rewind my turn. nothing else.

If you still find it not working, we use temporal regression. this time, we're, both rules-wise and fluff-wise, rewinding time. all of it. except our friend is immune to the thing, so he gets trapped one round ahead of the rest of reality.

Zaq
2009-08-26, 11:43 AM
I wouldn't argue that, actually. Forced dream doesn't just change the way you interact with the world, it changes the state of the world. Would you find temporal regression to be a more solid example?

And we're right back to our pal being immune to my Wall of Stone (which certainly changes the state of the word) and walking right through it. Unless you can explain to me how the two examples are different?

Usually I love your stuff, Tidesinger, but I just don't think you're standing on very solid ground this time.

Doc Roc
2009-08-26, 02:50 PM
::Gestures, grinning ::
I wouldn't have made it a question if I was sitting on solid ground, RAW. Spellguard rings are a serious problem item, which doesn't help matters at all. I personally agree and suspect that nothing happens, though the time regression power is a weird example RAI. Never really been happy with some aspects of the magic system in D&D 3.5

Kallisti
2009-08-26, 03:57 PM
I suppose the question here is: Does the power pull everything in the world back through time, in which case it is targeting/affecting everything in the world and the quaruts/chroneruts/phanes/angered DM come kill you, or does it "reset" the world?

In other words, are you casting Wall of Stone or Sarcophogus or Stone?

I can't really think of a way to phrase this clearly...

Foryn Gilnith
2009-08-26, 07:57 PM
Now that I can look at Magic of Eberron...
Ideas:
1) Congratulations, you get a free Time Hop. Wonderful. There are worse exploits.
2) As a Telepathy power, Forced Dream's rewind is more akin to precognition - pre-emptively avoiding a situation 1 round in advance, from an in-universe standpoint. There's nothing for your friend to be immune to.
3) Forced Dream isn't rewinding your friend, it's rewinding the Time Hop. The Time Hop isn't immune. To use a possibly outdated and quite unfitting Magic metaphor, suppose that Privileged Position (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=83720) represents the ring-granted immunity. Now, your friend (a creature) is enchanted by your Time Hop enchantment. You then cast Forced Dream. You can't target your friend, due to Privileged Position, but you don't have to - you're targeting your own Time Hop.

Hijax
2009-08-27, 10:54 AM
For the wall of stone argument: its instantaneous. the wall cease being magic when its created, the magic part never affects you.
however, while the time regression is instantaneous too, it still affects your mate. he, and everything else, gets rewind in time, except he cant be rewound, because he's immune.

Kami2awa
2009-08-27, 12:24 PM
The Hounds of Tindalos eat you.

Om nom nom.

Doc Roc
2009-08-27, 05:33 PM
Awwwww, eaten by my own hounds.

:: reaches over to his kobold's sheet, ticks the horrible death meter ::


ALL HAIL KING TORG!

Zaq
2009-08-27, 06:18 PM
Somehow I should have known that it would come down to King Torg.

ALL HAIL KING TORG!

Doc Roc
2009-08-27, 06:54 PM
It always does! All hail King Torg!

Cieyrin
2009-08-27, 11:56 PM
All hail King Torg! (no kobold death check for me today:smallbiggrin:)

lesser_minion
2009-08-28, 03:47 AM
A specific immunity to a spell is always going to be some variant on 'unbeatable spell resistance'. You can't be immune to a spell that doesn't allow spell resistance because there is a really good reason for you not be immune to it. You aren't immune to going back in time, you're immune to that specific spell. Even if not specified in the Magic Item description, your immunity to that specific spell is still essentially unbeatable spell resistance.

My impression is that Temporal Regression would not allow Power Resistance, because otherwise you would have to spend the next six millenia checking the SR and PR of every entity in your game world.

And because if you missed an SR roll, the con sequences would be dire for the entity concerned.