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Otogi
2009-08-24, 07:17 PM
I've been reading some RPG reviews about a couple of Post-Apocalyptic games and the ones that have a serious tone (all of them, actually) seem to be praised because it takes A New Dark tone of the GenreTM. I'm fine with games with serious tones, there's nothing wrong with a game that has a gritty mood.

The thing I don't get is what they're comparing it to. All I can think of is Gamma World, and 1/3rd of the editions are already pretty serious (Whoo, way to go White Wolf...). There's Metamorphosis Alpha, but that was more of a science fantasy game than a true PA game. You can count parts of PARANOIA, but people probably didn't play it that way for more than 2 sessions. And these go all the way back to the 80's. All the recent, light hearted post-apocalypse games I can think of are either revisions of the above or tributes to them. Meanwhile, the rest of the genre is pretty much painted black, so much so that it actually makes me a little depressed.

Can anybody tell me where these guys are getting the silly, ultrafun PA games that these guys are talking about?

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-08-24, 08:30 PM
Bliss Stage. Not really lighthearted, but I don't think of it as gritty so much as drama-infected.

thegurullamen
2009-08-24, 09:03 PM
The only humorous post-apoc RPGs I know of are Fallout and Fallout 2. They're computer games rather than pen and paper, but they fill the niche like none other I could possibly imagine.

hotel_papa
2009-08-24, 10:23 PM
Actually, I'm in the middle of a long home-brewing process trying to make a game based off of Fallout 3. I've made it accurate so far, now I'm just trying to lighten up the math so it can also be... y'know, fun?

Honestly, though, as a game master, a setting is going to be as dark and serious as you make it. D20 modern could become post-apoc with little conversion.

Good luck to you, though. My players tend to enjoy deconstructing the premises of my games. The moment I give the slightest hint of THIS R SERIOUS GAYME, they go bat****.

erikun
2009-08-24, 10:28 PM
They're probably comparing them to RPGs in general. After all, I can compare All Flesh Must Be Eaten to Exalted on the basis of realism/grit/encouraged humor, even though Exalted isn't Post-Apocalyptic.

Also, perhaps the reason that Post-Apocalyptic isn't usually funny is because it's Post-Apocalyptic? The point of the genre is survival and impossible odds, after all. :smalltongue: It's like a Victorian/Steampunk setting that's full of dystopia and hopelessness - it doesn't really fit the setting in question.

That said, Warhammer 40k and its GRIMDARK setting take Post-Apocalyptism to the extreme for humor's sake, although I'm not sure if it comes through with their RPG (Dark Heresy). Shadowrun has a long-running tongue-in-cheek history, although that's not necessarily shown in the static rules, either.

I'm actually not quite sure what you want with a "silly" RPG. Isn't it the campaign that's normally the silly part? Not everything can be X-Crawl (http://www.goodman-games.com/xcrawl.html), after all.

9mm
2009-08-24, 10:35 PM
Actually, I'm in the middle of a long home-brewing process trying to make a game based off of Fallout 3. I've made it accurate so far, now I'm just trying to lighten up the math so it can also be... y'know, fun?

good luck, Fallout was originally based off Gurps, but the licencing fell through so they tweaked it a little to come op with S.P.E.C.A.L.

Skorj
2009-08-24, 10:53 PM
Can anybody tell me where these guys are getting the silly, ultrafun PA games that these guys are talking about?

Many fun-to-play-at-convention games are somewhat PA, from Paranoia to:


The world has been invaded by an unholy union between commie martians and other crazies. The sisters of Our Lady of Harley-Davidson are equal to the challenge

Nuclear War isn't an RPG, but it's still a fun pre, during, and post apocalyptic game. Though somehow that one isn't as fun with you youngsters who didn't grow up Fearing the Bomb. :smallamused:

What I don't get is this endless fascination with "dark, gritty games". We've been through "games aren't just for kids". We've been through "kids especially like dark, gritty games because they aren't just for kids". We've been through "dark, gritty games made especially for kids who don't want to think they'r eplaying kids games". We've been through the lampooning of all of that, too. Been there, done that, hung a lamshade on it. It's worn out. </rant>

Tyndmyr
2009-08-24, 11:10 PM
Paranoia is not a serious game by any means. Sure, it could theoretically be played that way, but the game itself is intended to encourage erratic and random behavior, intra party conflict, and has all sorts of odd and random stuff. Any campaign is going to invariably become quite silly, usually in short order.

I haven't played enough post-apocalyptic RPGs to indict the entire genre as guilty of this, but there does seem to be a trend there, at least among the games people typically play. D&D is the iconic fantasy RPG, and it's (mostly) a serious system. The same is true of most other fantasy RPGs. Sure, they have humor in them, but that's mostly brought out by the players, not designed as a core part of the system.

Personally, I'd enjoy a solid, serious, PA game.

Otogi
2009-08-25, 12:41 AM
They're probably comparing them to RPGs in general. After all, I can compare All Flesh Must Be Eaten to Exalted on the basis of realism/grit/encouraged humor, even though Exalted isn't Post-Apocalyptic.

Maybe, but I've seen several reviewers compare just post-apoc, and it still doesn't make any sense.


Also, perhaps the reason that Post-Apocalyptic isn't usually funny is because it's Post-Apocalyptic? The point of the genre is survival and impossible odds, after all. :smalltongue: It's like a Victorian/Steampunk setting that's full of dystopia and hopelessness - it doesn't really fit the setting in question.


Don't we try to survive life everyday, against impossible odds? We still find humor in that, don't we? (1000's of observational comedians are waiting for you to say no :smalltongue:)


I'm actually not quite sure what you want with a "silly" RPG. Isn't it the campaign that's normally the silly part? Not everything can be X-Crawl (http://www.goodman-games.com/xcrawl.html), after all.

Let me tell you about a game called the World of Darkness...


Paranoia is not a serious game by any means. Sure, it could theoretically be played that way, but the game itself is intended to encourage erratic and random behavior, intra party conflict, and has all sorts of odd and random stuff. Any campaign is going to invariably become quite silly, usually in short order.

Actually, I meant being played as a post-apocalyptic game. Describing Paranoia seriously just doesn't seem that natural.


I haven't played enough post-apocalyptic RPGs to indict the entire genre as guilty of this, but there does seem to be a trend there, at least among the games people typically play. D&D is the iconic fantasy RPG, and it's (mostly) a serious system. The same is true of most other fantasy RPGs. Sure, they have humor in them, but that's mostly brought out by the players, not designed as a core part of the system.

Personally, I'd enjoy a solid, serious, PA game.

Which is fine; every wants to be a little dramatic sometimes. But that just makes the reviews even more strange because they explicitly say that PA games have been way to silly, even though the ones that are have really died out in the mainstream a long time ago (Fallout 3 excluded, of course).

Heck, I can name enough silly PA games with less than 2 hands, but I serious PA games go into a few dozens; and this doesn't even counting post-apocalyptic settings; we'd be here all day if we tried to name them all!

Frosty
2009-08-25, 01:18 AM
Seriously. Fallout is part silly, part serious. And ALL fun. Play it. Love it. There is a table-top version of Fallout (fan-made). It is almost the same as the computer rules, since the computer game rules work well for tabletop anyways (except for bursts).

Ashtar
2009-08-25, 03:18 AM
They are probably still talking about the slew of post-apo RPGs floating around at the end of the 80's who were mostly Max Max / Tank Girl / Road Warrior inspired. Mosty small print runs and relatively little success.

Case in point: French RPG Bitume.

Kurald Galain
2009-08-25, 04:27 AM
good luck, Fallout was originally based off Gurps, but the licencing fell through so they tweaked it a little to come op with S.P.E.C.A.L.

I've heard that before, but the Fallout system doesn't seem to reflect that at all. Can you give me a source please?

lesser_minion
2009-08-25, 04:46 AM
I've heard that before, but the Fallout system doesn't seem to reflect that at all. Can you give me a source please?

The thing about it originally being based on GURPS is mentioned on Wikipedia (and to my knowledge that page is still reliable).

SPECIAL is not, however, in any way based on GURPS - the SPECIAL system came about when SJG decided that they would prefer not to be associated with such a violent game.

Cheesegear
2009-08-25, 05:01 AM
That said, Warhammer 40k and its GRIMDARK setting take Post-Apocalyptism to the extreme for humor's sake, although I'm not sure if it comes through with their RPG (Dark Heresy).

WH40K is meant to be humerous? Aside from Ciaphas Cain, the 40K-verse is dead-serious (although, the fact that it's so serious may derive some humour, but that's certainly not it's aim :smallwink:). Heavy Emphasis on the dead part.

Dark Heresy is very, very Dark. The default assumption is that you're dead. But the GM just hasn't got around to it yet (much like CoC or Paranoia). It's a very GM-orientated game. If the GM hasn't got his act together, the game will fall apart. Much like Shadowrun or CoC.

Back on track;
D20 Modern/Future can be as post-apocalyptic as you want it to be. It's up to the GM what Progress Level what s/he wants, and why that progress level is around.

Iron Kingdoms, in a certain light, fits with PA. Especially when you start drawing parallels to the Dark Tower novels by Steven King.

Technically speaking; Eberron is Post-Apocalyptic as well.

Saph
2009-08-25, 05:38 AM
WH40K is meant to be humerous? Aside from Ciaphas Cain, the 40K-verse is dead-serious (although, the fact that it's so serious may derive some humour, but that's certainly not it's aim :smallwink:). Heavy Emphasis on the dead part.

It's more evident in Warhammer Fantasy than Warhammer 40K, but there's a definite tongue-in-cheek element to it. The Orks are pretty much pure comedy, and a lot of the Inquisitorial/Imperium stuff is deliberately made as over-the-top as possible. Not to mention Chaos.

For instance, one of the quotes I remember from the Khorne section of the Chaos Codex was:


KILL! MAIM! BURN! KILL! MAIM! BURN! KILL! MAIM! BURN! KILL! MAIM! BURN! KILL! MAIM! BURN! KILL! MAIM! BURN! KILL! MAIM! BURN! KILL! MAIM! BURN! KILL! MAIM! BURN! KILL! MAIM! BURN! KILL! MAIM! BURN! KILL! MAIM! BURN! KILL! MAIM! BURN! KILL! MAIM! BURN! KILL! MAIM! BURN! KILL! MAIM! BURN! KILL! MAIM! BURN! KILL! MAIM! BURN! KILL! MAIM! BURN! KILL! MAIM! BURN! KILL! MAIM! BURN!

Well, maybe you have to be familiar with British humour to find it funny. :smalltongue:

Deadmeat.GW
2009-08-25, 05:44 AM
40K ...serious...?

Mwuahaha!

Just read through the insane amount of puns that run through the whole game, from the start.

For Pete sake, they fire RADIOACTIVE WATERpistols :).

(of course the last bit may have been because they had no clue what the scientific name they used and according to the canon out of which bolter rounds are made)

Orks...
Go-Fasta-Red?

Just read through the primer for the Imperial Guard for a bit.

It is soo over the top that you know it is sarcasm.

Innocence Proves Nothing?
Just read through the Inquisition quotes for marvelous puns :).

Cheesegear
2009-08-25, 06:01 AM
The Orks are pretty much pure comedy

Well, that I'll grant you. But, even so, pure comedy is a bit of a stretch. A very small fraction of the Orks is funny (their technology, or non-technology) and that's about it.
And I will also grant you that WHFB/RP has some humour in it.


A lot of the Inquisitorial/Imperium stuff is deliberately made as over-the-top as possible.

Really? I don't see it? The Imperium brass are nutjobs, sure. But so is the galaxy they live in. "Here's a Line (Heresy/Mutation/etc). Cross it and die." seems like a legit command, given how bad things can get. I see them as being over-the-top because they have to be.


Not to mention Chaos.

Chaos is humerous? :smallconfused:


Kharn

As far as I know, he's a nutjob, and that's perfectly in character for him and hardly funny at all.

...Again, humour is not the intention of GRIMDARK. I can see how it can be funny, but, by no means is it meant to be. I'm sure if you ask the staff they'll tell you the same. Because I have.

As for "Innocence Proves Nothing", I don't understand how that's funny. Since it's a quote that comes from the real-world, essentially meaning "Stop wasting time." ...I can't find any puns.

The Novels (aside from Ciaphas Cain) and Dark Heresy are decidedly not funny. Not even the Orks. Maybe that's why I'm not seeing the humour, because I base the setting on the novels.

charl
2009-08-25, 06:03 AM
The Swedish RPG Mutant perhaps? Post-apocalyptic Scandinavia with anthropomorphic animals.

Tengu_temp
2009-08-25, 06:21 AM
It's more evident in Warhammer Fantasy than Warhammer 40K, but there's a definite tongue-in-cheek element to it. The Orks are pretty much pure comedy, and a lot of the Inquisitorial/Imperium stuff is deliberately made as over-the-top as possible. Not to mention Chaos.


That is correct. Warhammer 40.000 is not pure laugh out loud comedy, but everything in it is so overblown that it's impossible to take seriously. It's a World of Ham (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WorldOfHam).


Seriously. Fallout is part silly, part serious. And ALL fun. Play it. Love it. There is a table-top version of Fallout (fan-made). It is almost the same as the computer rules, since the computer game rules work well for tabletop anyways (except for bursts).

I checked out the tabletop Fallout, and wasn't impressed. The rules are slow and clunky, and the way damage/protection scales between weak and strong weapons/armor makes it more fitting for a video game rather than a pencil and paper RPG. Fallout is awesome, but it should stay a video game - if you want to run a game in this setting, it's better to use another ruleset.

Cheesegear
2009-08-25, 06:58 AM
That is correct. Warhammer 40.000 is not pure laugh out loud comedy, but everything in it is so overblown that it's impossible to take seriously. It's a World of Ham (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WorldOfHam).

Aww...And here I am taking it seriously for what it is. Maybe because I like Worlds of Ham. :smallconfused:

Everyone (in this thread) telling me that 40K isn't serious business...When it clearly is. :smallwink:

RagnaroksChosen
2009-08-25, 07:01 AM
for all you fallout fans:

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_Pen_and_Paper_d20

Hunter Noventa
2009-08-25, 08:27 AM
RIFTS is technically a post-apocalyptic setting. On the few occasions we've played it we were never able to take it seriously. I mean, once I had clone ninjas steal my cyborg body. The tabloids didn't believe me.

Also, I once turned into Megaman X. While the enemies were building the Sister Ray from FF7.

I'm really not sure if you can take RIFTS seriously.

LibraryOgre
2009-08-25, 08:47 AM
RIFTS is technically a post-apocalyptic setting. On the few occasions we've played it we were never able to take it seriously. I mean, once I had clone ninjas steal my cyborg body. The tabloids didn't believe me.

Rifts is more post-post-apocalyptic... the world ended 300 years ago, and things are getting better, now.



I'm really not sure if you can take RIFTS seriously.

It plays well serious. I kinda want to try playing Paranoia seriously, though.

Dixieboy
2009-08-25, 09:12 AM
Seriously. Fallout is part silly, part serious. And ALL fun. Play it. Love it. There is a table-top version of Fallout (fan-made). It is almost the same as the computer rules, since the computer game rules work well for tabletop anyways (except for bursts).

It's pretty horrible translation of the game really:
hitting with a gun is either impossible, or too easy. (Where in the PC games if you had a good position and a decent gun skill you could probably hit an enemy 50% of the time even from the beginning, now, it's simply not possible)

Crit fails should not be based on individual die rolls when you are rolling 50. (Crit fails did not exist in fallout anyway)

The balance is pretty bad(
Kamikaze went from "Sucks" to "BEST TRAIT EVAR", and there is NO reason you wouldn't play super mutant, ghoul or deathclaw)

HP, resistance, AP and so on is NOT done the same way as in the game.

And so on.

Killer Angel
2009-08-25, 09:23 AM
RIFTS is technically a post-apocalyptic setting. On the few occasions we've played it we were never able to take it seriously.

RIFTS had a great settings, supported by an awful set rules (at least, the first edition... Palladium, I think).
That said, it is serious, but decisely not grimdark, so maybe it's one of the games that can explain a little the OP's doubts.

hotel_papa
2009-08-25, 12:30 PM
good luck, Fallout was originally based off Gurps, but the licencing fell through so they tweaked it a little to come op with S.P.E.C.A.L.

Actually, the system I had come up with was based on S.P.E.C.I.A.L. I was trying to be as true to the game mechanics as possible, turning it into a turn-based combat system that utilized a mechanic similar to V.A.T.S. for determining actions per round.

I'm just having a hard time streamlining the math that you take for granted because the game does it for you.

Frosty
2009-08-25, 12:33 PM
It's pretty horrible translation of the game really:
hitting with a gun is either impossible, or too easy. (Where in the PC games if you had a good position and a decent gun skill you could probably hit an enemy 50% of the time even from the beginning, now, it's simply not possible)

Crit fails should not be based on individual die rolls when you are rolling 50. (Crit fails did not exist in fallout anyway)

The balance is pretty bad(
Kamikaze went from "Sucks" to "BEST TRAIT EVAR", and there is NO reason you wouldn't play super mutant, ghoul or deathclaw)

HP, resistance, AP and so on is NOT done the same way as in the game.

And so on.

Then you have NO idea what you're talking about since you read the wrong book. I've read and played the Fallout pen and paper quite a bit. At level 1 yeah you kinda suck with a gun, but make it your tag skill, and by level 3 you'll hit most things without a targeted shot. The critical failure rules, weapon condition rules, and addiction rules need to be fixed. for burst weapons I rule that you only roll crit-fail for the FIRST bullet you shoot. And there sure were crit fails in Fallout2. Did you MISS the Jinxed trait?

Almost EVERYTHING is done exactly the same as Fallout2 if you are using Fallout PnP 2.0. the new 3.0 version does things differently.

9mm
2009-08-25, 01:42 PM
Actually, the system I had come up with was based on S.P.E.C.I.A.L. I was trying to be as true to the game mechanics as possible, turning it into a turn-based combat system that utilized a mechanic similar to V.A.T.S. for determining actions per round.

I'm just having a hard time streamlining the math that you take for granted because the game does it for you.

then remember that V.A.T.S. is an real-time overlay to S.P.E.C.I.A.L (which is turn based) and there for may not quite work.

Tyndmyr
2009-08-25, 01:53 PM
WH40K is meant to be humerous? Aside from Ciaphas Cain, the 40K-verse is dead-serious (although, the fact that it's so serious may derive some humour, but that's certainly not it's aim :smallwink:).

You are talking about the system that includes notes like "To decrease your chances of being heard, recite the litany of stealth" in it's rulebooks, right?

Hunter Noventa
2009-08-25, 02:19 PM
RIFTS had a great settings, supported by an awful set rules (at least, the first edition... Palladium, I think).
That said, it is serious, but decisely not grimdark, so maybe it's one of the games that can explain a little the OP's doubts.

Yes the Palladium rules are a big wallbanger. We played Macross using those rules and it was decided that if we ever did it again, specialized software would be required.

And Rifts Earth might be serious, but we just couldn't seem to take it that way.

lesser_minion
2009-08-25, 02:26 PM
You are talking about the system that includes notes like "To decrease your chances of being heard, recite the litany of stealth" in it's rulebooks, right?

That's an absolutely valid technique! Even :elan: knows that!

Both Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 are a mix of serious 'the world is dooooomed' material with light-hearted elements. The real idea, as far as I understand it, is that the light-hearted material balances out the otherwise rather bleak and hopeless nature of both settings.

LibraryOgre
2009-08-25, 02:30 PM
Never understood people's problems with the Palladium rules.

Combat is d20+bonuses v. d20+bonuses. High roll wins, defender wins ties. Saves are d20, roll high. Damage is usually XD6. Skills are d%, roll under.

Leewei
2009-08-25, 02:32 PM
The Swedish RPG Mutant perhaps? Post-apocalyptic Scandinavia with anthropomorphic animals.

<ahem>

Yorn desh born, der ritt de gitt der gue,
Orn desh, dee born desh, de umn Narf! Narf! Narf!

Saph
2009-08-25, 02:35 PM
Both Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 are a mix of serious 'the world is dooooomed' material with light-hearted elements. The real idea, as far as I understand it, is that the light-hearted material balances out the otherwise rather bleak and hopeless nature of both settings.

It's more that they take "the world is DOOOOMED" and turn it up to 11. The galaxy will be overrun by Orks! No, wait, it'll be overrun by Chaos! No, wait, it'll be overrun by Tyranids! No, wait, it'll be overrun by Necrons! No, wait, it'll be-!

After you get past a certain point it gets increasingly hard to take it seriously. The entire universe is set up solely to have every faction shooting the crap out of every other faction in a free-for-all which is never going to stop because they all hate each other and no side's allowed to destroy another.

shadow_archmagi
2009-08-25, 02:53 PM
It's not

"Well, it looks like this is the end. Thousands of enemies are converging on the last vestiges of mankind. Let's all just sort of hang around and see if we can manage to scrape together some kind of tiny thread of hope."

It's

"RWAAAAAAAAARGH I WILL TAKE A SHORT BREAK FROM GENOCIDE TO KILL YOUR DEMON WITH A CHAINSAW MINIGUN ROCKET LAUNCHER."

"PUNY MARINE! MAYBE YOU CAN DODGE MY FIRE BUT LITTLE DID YOU KNOW MY FIRE CAN SPIT FIRE!"

"WAAAUGH IZ GOOFY AN HAS CRONICK SPELLIN TRUBLEZ"


Warhammer 40k is meant to be so over the top it lands on the moon and lives with those two gentleman from Dresdan Codak.


http://dresdencodak.com/comics/2005-06-22-rupert_and_hubert.jpg

chiasaur11
2009-08-25, 03:02 PM
It's not

"Well, it looks like this is the end. Thousands of enemies are converging on the last vestiges of mankind. Let's all just sort of hang around and see if we can manage to scrape together some kind of tiny thread of hope."

It's

"RWAAAAAAAAARGH I WILL TAKE A SHORT BREAK FROM GENOCIDE TO KILL YOUR DEMON WITH A CHAINSAW MINIGUN ROCKET LAUNCHER."

"PUNY MARINE! MAYBE YOU CAN DODGE MY FIRE BUT LITTLE DID YOU KNOW MY FIRE CAN SPIT FIRE!"

"WAAAUGH IZ GOOFY AN HAS CRONICK SPELLIN TRUBLEZ"


Warhammer 40k is meant to be so over the top it lands on the moon and lives with those two gentleman from Dresdan Codak.


http://dresdencodak.com/comics/2005-06-22-rupert_and_hubert.jpg

Wouldn't that make it one of Hubert's WORSE ideas?

charl
2009-08-25, 03:31 PM
<ahem>

Yorn desh born, der ritt de gitt der gue,
Orn desh, dee born desh, de umn Narf! Narf! Narf!

Excuse me?

LibraryOgre
2009-08-25, 04:04 PM
Excuse me?

I think he said something about your mother. :smallwink:

Dixieboy
2009-08-25, 04:53 PM
Then you have NO idea what you're talking about since you read the wrong book. I've read and played the Fallout pen and paper quite a bit. At level 1 yeah you kinda suck with a gun, but make it your tag skill, and by level 3 you'll hit most things without a targeted shot. The critical failure rules, weapon condition rules, and addiction rules need to be fixed. for burst weapons I rule that you only roll crit-fail for the FIRST bullet you shoot. And there sure were crit fails in Fallout2. Did you MISS the Jinxed trait?

Almost EVERYTHING is done exactly the same as Fallout2 if you are using Fallout PnP 2.0. the new 3.0 version does things differently.
Crit fails did not exist in fallout 2 for anyone who did not have jinx, (even then I fail to remember it happening) i never encountered one in any of my 20 billion playthroughs, not a single one.
Atleast not one i noticed, not like the ones in the P&P game which will kill you, ruin your ammo/weapon/armor/skull or make something blow up. (You)

HP, AP, Resistances and other things DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY. (I tested it out by creating the same character in the p&P game, and in the videogame, the difference was huge.)

And the thing is, in Fallout 2, without small guns being a tagged skills, at level 1, i could hit radscorpions, like 2/5 times.
In the P&P game?
No way in hell!
My chance of crit failing is about half the one i have of hitting and i will most likely use an entire magazine to hit a goddamn super mutie standing 2 feet away.
Since distance does nothing past a certain point in the P&P game.

I used a Super mutie completely based around the concept that everything could be solved with "Moar dakka" in the three session i got to play this thing.
Statistically i would crit fail about every third round with my minigun, so i ended up beating stuff to a pulp with my fists because the risks of dying was larger when properly armed.


<ahem>

Yorn desh born, der ritt de gitt der gue,
Orn desh, dee born desh, de umn Narf! Narf! Narf!
Those jokes got stale within the first five minutes of the swedish chefs lifetime.

just saying.

Friv
2009-08-25, 05:10 PM
Fallout 1 and 2 definitely had critical misses, you were just lucky enough not to get them. Usually, they would result in people losing their entire ammo clips, although sometimes they would result in people hitting other people by mistake (with the "Oops! [[Jackass NPC]] hit you instead of your opponent" message).

I got killed by critical misses on the part of my party members several times.

Dixieboy
2009-08-25, 05:13 PM
Fallout 1 and 2 definitely had critical misses, you were just lucky enough not to get them. Usually, they would result in people losing their entire ammo clips, although sometimes they would result in people hitting other people by mistake (with the "Oops! [[Jackass NPC]] hit you instead of your opponent" message).

I got killed by critical misses on the part of my party members several times.

Were those crit fails?

Yea, i got alot of those.

However, nothing ever EXPLODED.
My weapon never JAMMED (Which cannot be repaired :smallbiggrin:=

Sure i accidently may have brought a teammate down to 2 HP
But it was fixable, the crits fail in this game will KILL YOU.
KILL YOUR TEAM.
And then kill everyone around you.

And it happens if you roll but ONE crit fail out of billions of dice.

Frosty
2009-08-25, 06:43 PM
Dixieboy, try playing a Luck 2 or 1 character and tell me how often you lose your turn or drop your weapon or lose your ammo or shoot your team or what not. Yes, it's not EXACTLY the same. Crit fails are a bit deadlier, but 99% of the mechanics are the SAME. The initial percentages at Chargen are IDENTICAL to those from Fallout 2. Go back and compared if you don't believe me, but please do your research before you say these things.

Also, you didn't HAVE a gun at level 1. You get past the Temple of Trials? You're already level 2. Fallout 2 essentially starts the actual game at level 2, so that's why level 1 characters feel weaker. Typically you don't have enough money for anything BUT a Pipe gun until level 3.

Oslecamo
2009-08-25, 07:18 PM
Aww...And here I am taking it seriously for what it is. Maybe because I like Worlds of Ham. :smallconfused:

Everyone (in this thread) telling me that 40K isn't serious business...When it clearly is. :smallwink:

How can you take seriously a seting where the elite troops run away with giant flags on their backs and giant glowing gloves(when there's plenty of powerfull ranged weaponry available), and they're fighting robot zombies?

Let me say that again.

ROBOT ZOMBIES!

Because the bugs, symbiotic engineering funguses geniuses, demons and flashlight wielding guys weren't enough.

Or powered armored nuns. That's definetely meant to be taken seriously.

Raum
2009-08-25, 07:31 PM
Can anybody tell me where these guys are getting the silly, ultrafun PA games that these guys are talking about?I'm not entirely certain what you mean by "silly" but, here are a couple humorous or cinematic post-apocalypse games worth looking into: Unisystem's All Flesh Must be Eaten
Savage World's The Day After Ragnarok, Deadlands: Reloaded, Low Life, or even Necessary Evil
9th Generation
Palladium's After the Bomb RPG and Dead Reign for that matter Rifts may qualify
GDW's Cadillacs and Dinosaurs
Mongoose's Macho Women with Guns
The Shadow of Yesterday
WEG's Tank GirlYou've already mentioned WoD and Gamma World...depending on definitions, Earthdawn and Nemesis may fall into the category you're looking for. I'm sure there are others available as well.


Heck, I can name enough silly PA games with less than 2 hands, but I serious PA games go into a few dozens; and this doesn't even counting post-apocalyptic settings; we'd be here all day if we tried to name them all!What exactly are you looking for for in a "silly PA game"? I'm still not certain how you're using 'silly'. In my experience, any game can become silly, it's simply up to the players to make it so.

Leewei
2009-08-25, 09:34 PM
Those jokes got stale within the first five minutes of the swedish chefs lifetime.

just saying.
And here I thought the Swedish Chef song as it might be sung by Pinky might be a bit too obscure. Glad to see someone got it, even if it was Waldorf. :smallbiggrin:

Otogi
2009-08-25, 09:52 PM
What exactly are you looking for for in a "silly PA game"? I'm still not certain how you're using 'silly'. In my experience, any game can become silly, it's simply up to the players to make it so.

Well, of course, and nothing stopped anybody from making Cartoon Action Hour in a deep, complex and tragic drama. Okay, there's one thing: the game's presented mood, writing, art work and setting - in other words, the fluff. You can make World of Darkness into a reverse Scooby-Doo/Monster Mash and make Cthuhlu Tech into a magical Megas XLR by using their mechanics alone, but the reason people normally don't is because of the fluff they read, see and sometimes hear. So when I talk about silly RPGs, I'm talking about ones that are presented in a sillly, sometimes over the top tone.

(Sorry if it sounded like I was talking down to you, I don't mean to belittle you - just explain).

bosssmiley
2009-08-26, 08:55 AM
Two pages into a thread about comedic post-apocalyptic RPGs and not one mention of Elvis: the Legendary Tours (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/forgottenfutures/others.htm) or Octane (http://www.memento-mori.com/octane/)? For shame Playgrounders!

Tiki Snakes
2009-08-26, 09:35 AM
Just to say that a Scooby-Do WoD campaign? Sold, sir. Sold.

chiasaur11
2009-08-26, 10:15 AM
Just to say that a Scooby-Do WoD campaign? Sold, sir. Sold.

"Now let's take off that mask."

"Well, I'll be darned! That 'Deep One abomination' was really old Mr. Ericson! He just wanted to scare kids away from the pirate gold!"

"And let's see who his partner was..."

"Oh. That was an actual deep one. Well."

"And eventually I will get away with it too, when the stars are right!"

LibraryOgre
2009-08-26, 10:29 AM
I cannot think of a single game that would be impossible to play silly.

Otogi
2009-08-26, 12:23 PM
Just to say that a Scooby-Do WoD campaign? Sold, sir. Sold.

Maybe we can work something out :smallwink:

Zincorium
2009-08-26, 02:47 PM
I cannot think of a single game that would be impossible to play silly.

FATAL. At least once the 'Anal Circumference' table loses it's humor.

Dixieboy
2009-08-26, 04:16 PM
Dixieboy, try playing a Luck 2 or 1 character and tell me how often you lose your turn or drop your weapon or lose your ammo or shoot your team or what not. Yes, it's not EXACTLY the same. Crit fails are a bit deadlier, but 99% of the mechanics are the SAME. The initial percentages at Chargen are IDENTICAL to those from Fallout 2. Go back and compared if you don't believe me, but please do your research before you say these things.

Also, you didn't HAVE a gun at level 1. You get past the Temple of Trials? You're already level 2. Fallout 2 essentially starts the actual game at level 2, so that's why level 1 characters feel weaker. Typically you don't have enough money for anything BUT a Pipe gun until level 3.Have you never given yourself a gun at the temple of trials?

And no, they don't do characters the same way.

AP points for one, are skyrocketed. (If nothing else then due to the kamikaze trait, which EVERYONe will take)

The system for rolling is not the same, here it depends ONLY on your skill.
Distance, size, lighting.
Nothing of that factors in. (Distance, to an extend does)

And resistances are doubled, sometimes tripled.
HP is completely whack. (Try making a character in fallout 2, then compare it to one made using the rules of the P&P game)

And i ALWAYs play low-luck.
I just like the idea of the unluckiest guy in the world saving it.