What are your opinions on this "Miss Universe" pageant?

[Pika...]

I bring this up because a side of my family, from a certain region of South America, won't stop jumping in joy at the moment.


Anyway, what are your thoughts about this contest?


In my case I can't really watch it, because I feel these women aren't really "real". If you know what I mean. They walk around dressed and acting like princesses, talking about how they want to save starving children across the world, etc, then a few days later you see pictures surface of them drinking and making out with other chicks at frat parties. Basically, they are just like any other women of our current age, and the image which they are trying to put out makes me think they are acting as if they were women of 60-100ish years ago (which I feel is a bad thing, since I don't want/like my women to by quiet submissive pet things).


Also, I can not help but think that the judging is rigged, or statistically unbalanced, since this one country always ends up winning against all statistical odds. Even wikipedia does not mention how the judging works.

Anyone else here put thought into this, or am I just weird?

[Moff Chumley]

Um, I think I speak for most of our fair forum when I say my opinion of beauty pageants of any sort rhyme with fullmitt.

[RabbitHoleLost]

In my case I can really watch it, because I feel these women aren't really "real". If you know what I mean. They walk around dressed and acting like princesses, talking about how they want to save starving children across the world, etc, then a few days later you see pictures surface of them drinking and making out with other chicks at frat parties. Basically, they are just like any other women of our current date,


then a few days later you see pictures surface of them drinking and making out with other chicks at frat parties.

Basically, they are just like any other women of our current date

:smallannoyed:


I personally find it very rare that they're secretly the drinking promiscuous women you claim them (and apparantly all women) to be.
Of course, there are negatives of pageants, in that it often gives women an "ideal" they think they need to, but are often incapable, of achieving.

At the same time, I find that they often offer young and teenaged girls an alternative and more positive role model, compared to Britney Spears and Lindsay Lohan and whatnot.
Especially because of the talent portion.

But these are just my opinions on the matter.

[Pika...]

:smallannoyed:
I personally find it very rare that they're secretly the drinking promiscuous women you claim them (and apparantly all women) to be.

My apologies to you, and all who mistook this! That is not what I meant at all.

I was trying to use the numerous cases when the above had happened to show that these are everyday women, who do everyday things. I did not mean to say that ALL everyday women did these specific things or where like this.

[Tirian]

:smallannoyed:


I personally find it very rare that they're secretly the drinking promiscuous women you claim them (and apparantly all women) to be.
Of course, there are negatives of pageants, in that it often gives women an "ideal" they think they need to, but are often incapable, of achieving.

At the same time, I find that they often offer young and teenaged girls an alternative and more positive role model, compared to Britney Spears and Lindsay Lohan and whatnot.
Especially because of the talent portion.

I suspect you're confusing the Miss America and Miss USA pageants. The latter, which is the one that gets the airtime these days and is the lead-in to the Miss Universe pageant, does not have a talent portion (except for the "speaking off the top of your head" talent which so many of the winning contestants fail badly) and in fact has a pretty bad track record recently of weeding out the sorts of behavior that you wouldn't want your daughter to emulate. It's just another entry point to the glamorous world of second-tier model/actress/reality show contestant.

By contrast, I think that the Miss America pageant does a much better job of elevating female student-athletes who are involved with charity work and happen to be pretty on top of all that. Alas, that doesn't sell television ad time in this day and age, but I'm sure I'd far rather have dinner with a Miss America contestant than anyone that Donald Trump thinks is exemplary.

I don't know what to think of Miss Universe, except that I'm not sure why we would expect there to be a uniform global standard for beauty or feminine poise, and I'm a little bit shocked at the process that turned out the winner. But as long as it's what she wants to do, I'm cool with it.

[Trog]

I am of the opinion that the rest of the universe is sorely underrepresented in the pageant. Maybe enrollment will increase once our TV signals travel a bit further into space. [/obviousjoke]

[LurkerInPlayground]

It's a pangeant. Like the Olympics.

They're gregarious social rituals full of pomp.
What else is there to say?

[Coidzor]

Um, I think I speak for most of our fair forum when I say my opinion of beauty pageants of any sort rhyme with fullmitt.

I dunno. I think most of us are more ignorant than vomitting at their mention.

Anway, I'm mostly ignorant, but from what I have seen, there seems to be some kind of formula they follow to find or make aesthetically attractive women who I have no ability to find sexually attractive.

It was quite perplexing as to how they did that when I realized this as a teenager.

[LurkerInPlayground]

I'll draw the comparisons out even further.

Are the Olympics really fair? Or is it just a contest to see which country can breed a very specific kind of human better than the others?

My view on beauty pageants are similar. The difference is in how well they can be a "refined woman."

I wouldn't even regard such a view as cynicism. That's just the sort of world we live in.

Some people really like football too and feel some sort of contrived loyalty to the local team.

I'm not really into that sort of thing but I can't really manufacture any rage over it either. People have long since made the world an absurd place.

[THAC0]

I'll draw the comparisons out even further.

Are the Olympics really fair? Or is it just a contest to see which country can breed a very specific kind of human better than the others?


How do you define "fair"? Even if it is just a contest to breed a specific kind of human being, if everyone is trying to breed the same kind of human being, that would still be fair wouldn't it? Whereas if the USA and China were trying to breed the "right" human being, and convinced Australia that they needed to try to breed the "wrong" kind, that would be unfair?

[LurkerInPlayground]

How do you define "fair"? Even if it is just a contest to breed a specific kind of human being, if everyone is trying to breed the same kind of human being, that would still be fair wouldn't it? Whereas if the USA and China were trying to breed the "right" human being, and convinced Australia that they needed to try to breed the "wrong" kind, that would be unfair?
It's my response to the OP honestly.

The notion that the Olympics is a "fair contest" is quickly shattered when people hop themselves on steroids and when China just culturally mass produces underaged gymnasts and pushes them through on home turf.

Then the Miss Beauty pageants probably has some unfair standard of beauty or somesuch noise.

My point is that it really isn't the right question to ask. The only questions that need be asked are:
"Is this a breeding contest?"
"Are people unrelated to the contest making an obnoxious ritual of basking in reflected glory?"

[Pika...]

How do you define "fair"? Even if it is just a contest to breed a specific kind of human being, if everyone is trying to breed the same kind of human being, that would still be fair wouldn't it? Whereas if the USA and China were trying to breed the "right" human being, and convinced Australia that they needed to try to breed the "wrong" kind, that would be unfair?

Well, look into past controversies over "custom" and "special" sports equipment. Usually Olympic events are won within split-seconds, today whoever has the better equipment gets seconds shaved off their time.

Hence why in the original games way back everyone played naked (and women were not usually allowed to watch).

[Rutskarn]

Also keep in mind that whatever genetic gifts they might possess, Olympic athletes work, man. They don't just get up one morning and decide to go enroll in the Olympics--you know, get some exercise in to make up for all the ice cream they'd had last week.

I'm sure beauty contestants have to diet and stuff, but I can hardly see it being as extreme as, say, what Phelps went through.

[Mystic Muse]

I was disappointed there were only humans there. come on! there have GOT to be hot aliens somewhere.

in all seriousness I don't give a crap about pageants. I just came in here to write this joke.

[Yarram]

I think it's a bunch of shallow people pretending to be deep and talented, covered by gloss.

[Jamin]

I am of the opinion that the rest of the universe is sorely underrepresented in the pageant. Maybe enrollment will increase once our TV signals travel a bit further into space. [/obviousjoke]

You are a funny man er trog thing

[Berserk Monk]

It needs to become more literal. We need contestants from other planets, solar systems, and galaxies. Get some ewoks and Lovecraftian horrors in bikinis.

[Rutskarn]

You are a funny man er trog thing

That's not a bad nickname. Man 'o Trogthing.

[Trog]

I think it's a bunch of shallow people pretending to be deep and talented, covered by gloss.
In all seriousness now, the pageants ask deep, difficult questions that the contestants are forced to answer in a short period of time in front of a huge audience. I think nearly anyone put up there could come off as "pretending to be deep" as well as uninformed. I think the real point of those questions are to test the poise and charisma of the contestant, not to mine their answers for intellectually relevant solutions to societies complex ills. If they truly want a test of intellect there surely are better (but no doubt boring to watch) ways to do so.

As to talent, again, most people put on the spot would come off looking bad in a talent competition. Can you play an instrument? Great. You will be compared to every musician that ever lived and be found lacking. Can you juggle? Great. There's dozens that can do it better. Etc.

Are they shallow? I guess I don't know. I think it depends on why they are in the pageant in the first place and I imagine that that reason varies from person to person. Certainly I can think of both shallow and non-shallow motivations for doing so so I won't judge them. Do I think the pageants themselves are shallow? Yeah. I think they can be.

Gloss? Oh yeah. Lots of gloss. *Gets out the floor waxer and buffs everyone in the chat to Mr. Sparkle level shine* :smallbiggrin:

EDIT:

That's not a bad nickname. Man 'o Trogthing.
Make love, not Trogthing! :smalltongue:

[Coidzor]

I'm sure beauty contestants have to diet and stuff, but I can hardly see it being as extreme as, say, what Phelps went through.

Except for when they get even more extreme and start killing themselves off for it. But that might just be an urban legend and they're actually kept from the usual stupidity by the rigors of it.

I'm-a probably say that they're probably subject to the usual stupidity of starvation though.

[thubby]

it's a fantasy, a picture of the world as we want it to be. beautiful people with power who genuinely care about the world.
it's all smoke and mirrors but on a dnd focused board the appeal shouldn't be that hard to see.

[OverdrivePrime]

I've actually never watched one of these goofy pageants, but I find the concept pretty silly and slightly insulting. These utterly unnatural and pigment-coated twigs are supposed to be what I find attractive? Granted, some of them have attractive features, but they're flimsy and shoddy approximations of real women.

Now, if these competitions included a decathlon and kickboxing, I might would definitely tune in.

[V'icternus]

Question: I'm too lazy to check, but don't we have a Miss World competition? And as all the participants are from our world, why do we need to hold a bigger contest with a bigger title just to raise the bar? What's next, Miss Third Dimension? (Sorry, no two-dimensional characters allowed. And frankly, I don't care how attractive your one-dimensional chratcer is, they're not getting in. Nobody wants to watch a dot move in no direction on stage.)

[_Zoot_]

I am of the opinion that the rest of the universe is sorely underrepresented in the pageant. Maybe enrollment will increase once our TV signals travel a bit further into space. [/obviousjoke]

I also share this opinion, if I were from some other area of the universe i would be most put out...

[Yarram]

As to talent, again, most people put on the spot would come off looking bad in a talent competition. Can you play an instrument? Great. You will be compared to every musician that ever lived and be found lacking. Can you juggle? Great. There's dozens that can do it better. Etc.

Thing is, they really aren't put on the spot, because they prepare their special act for months before they perform. (Some of these performances are good actually. I was over-exaggerating a little.)


Are they shallow? I guess I don't know. I think it depends on why they are in the pageant in the first place and I imagine that that reason varies from person to person. Certainly I can think of both shallow and non-shallow motivations for doing so so I won't judge them. Do I think the pageants themselves are shallow? Yeah. I think they can be.

I would go with yes. But that's judging by my limited experience with Pagents. From the limited listening to interviews with winners I've had... They are so doughy it makes me feel afraid for human-kind.:smallfrown:

What upsets me the most is that they objectify themselves without achieving anything... And the energy they use could be directed to so many better things...

[Trog]

Thing is, they really aren't put on the spot, because they prepare their special act for months before they perform. (Some of these performances are good actually. I was over-exaggerating a little.)
Whoops, you are correct and I knew that fact but I chose my words poorly. I shouldn't have put "on the spot" there but my statement of being compared with the greats who had your same talent and came before you still stands. A modest amount of talent is the norm I think. Though, obviously, good for you if you stand out somehow.

What upsets me the most is that they objectify themselves without achieving anything... And the energy they use could be directed to so many better things...
That depends. If they enter the pageant solely to win and winning is everything to them then yes that person (unless they won) would have achieved nothing, or close to it. But even if someone were in it for those reasons they have the opportunity to see that winning isn't everything and there are many more life lessons that can be taken away from the experience. I could see how it might be a source of pride for some to say they had been in a prominent pageant, especially once they have grown old and youthful beauty has faded.

I would argue as long as you walked away from the experience with something positive you have achieved something.

[Mr. Mud]

My Opinions... Heh.

Anyway, my friend saw the Whole Mrs. Universe procession (One from every country, and what not) in the Airport... He got a picture with my Philippines, as he is Filipino :smallbiggrin:.

[Yarram]

I really wonder... What could you possibly walk away with after showing off your body off to the word in the hopes that a bunch of seedy old men will decide that you are the perfect woman?

[OverdrivePrime]

I really wonder... What could you possibly walk away with after showing off your body off to the word in the hopes that a bunch of seedy old men will decide that you are the perfect woman?

A lucrative career in the objectification industry? There's some serious (and seriously dirty) money in that.

[Ditto]

Networking. Serious networking, if nothing else. You meet some pretty neat people with similar interests, and *they* know other people who can make things happen if you really do have this great idea on solving world hunger...

It's not as 'real' as it used to be (for whatever value of 'real' you accept pageants to ever have been), but the girls are gorgeous and have some demonstrable talent, even if it doesn't shine through on the Q&A. Miss South Carolina looked like such a mook last year, yes, but not all of our pageant contestants can be beautiful, talented, eloquent AND intelligent. Any combination of those is still pretty desirable and admirable.

[Kcalehc]

Well they're only shallow by other peoples standards. Any desire to appear better to a certain group could be considered shallow by another group that does not understand it. An olympic athlete could be said to be as shallow, they enter a competition where a certain skill is required, the best of the lot gets a shiny medal (and a ton of publicity) and adoration of the masses.

Don't forget that all of the contestants are in this voluntarily (well I'm assuming so), and this is what they want to do. Who are we to judge the validity of their choices - especially where they do not in anyway conflict with our lives?

Personally I find that it's entertainment, in a similar vein to any other reality TV show. People come on to win, in whatever manner is required by the show. In this case its by representing a pre(ish)defined idea of beauty and poise - whoever can pull it off the best wins.

Additionally, they do not objectify themselves. They put them selves in a position where others objectify them - but thats only because the competition does not allow the observer to see much beyond the skin of the contestants. If you ever met some of them they may turn out to be very nice people and a wonder to talk to - but this in not represented much int eh show.

[Pyrian]

Sorry, no two-dimensional characters allowed.That might rule out most of the current pageant. :smallamused:

[Yarram]

Well they're only shallow by other peoples standards.
Yes. That makes them shallow doesn't it? There are no other standards we can use.

Don't forget that all of the contestants are in this voluntarily (well I'm assuming so), and this is what they want to do. Who are we to judge the validity of their choices - especially where they do not in anyway conflict with our lives? Thing is, they put themselves on a podium because they want to be judged... Otherwise they wouldn't do it?


Additionally, they do not objectify themselves. They put them selves in a position where others objectify them - Isn't that what objectifying yourself is? Putting yourself in a position where others see you as an object rather than a human?

[Lord Seth]

I find the entire "Miss Universe" pageant to be a complete and utter farce, because for some reason only women from Earth are allowed to compete. What about life on other planets? I mean, it's "Miss Universe" so shouldn't they be in it? BLATANT DISCRIMINATION!

On a more serious note...

It's my response to the OP honestly.

The notion that the Olympics is a "fair contest" is quickly shattered when people hop themselves on steroids and when China just culturally mass produces underaged gymnasts and pushes them through on home turf.I don't have anything to say about the gymnasts, but don't they test for steroids and such?

[bosssmiley]

Eurovision > Miss World/Universe

But hey, if these girls want to parade around like competition animals at a farm/pet show that's their lookout. It doesn't cost me a penny and isn't part of my world.

(Miss Vega 4 is one fine looking paramecium though...)