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PumpkinEater
2009-08-24, 10:04 PM
I. The Fighter (No change, with the exception that they receive Weapon Focus as a bonus feat at level 1, and slightly more skill points)
II. The Rogue (No change)
III. The Ranger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121039)
IV. The Hunter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6678753#post6678753)
V. The Magician (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6573800#post6573800)
VI. The Marksman (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120972)

Okay. I'm planning on running a quick test with my players with these classes, but unfortunately, as you can see, the list is extraordinarily thin. I can't think of too many roles I don't have covered. I'm just wondering if there's anything really missing? I looked through the PhB classes, and none of them (excluding the fighter and rogue; the ranger was redone) would fit in.

As a note, this is for a low-magic campaign. There is a God, but it does not grant spells.

Yukitsu
2009-08-24, 10:06 PM
Expand the heal skill, which should at least help keep the party moving. Nothing is more irritating than having to rely on natural healing to get back health, and while the realism is sometimes nice, it really bogs down action, makes the PCs tentative to act, and is just not fun in high adventure style games.

PumpkinEater
2009-08-24, 10:11 PM
Expand the heal skill, which should at least help keep the party moving. Nothing is more irritating than having to rely on natural healing to get back health, and while the realism is sometimes nice, it really bogs down action, makes the PCs tentative to act, and is just not fun in high adventure style games.

Ah, one thing I was wondering is whether or not having the characters constantly in an injured state (not at full hit points, at least) would work. The way you put it, it probably won't. Haha. Would a fatigue-point system work? Like, maybe, half their hit points are... hit points, and other half are fatigue points. First, fatigue points are damaged, and then we move on to hit points. Fatigue points regenerate at four times the rate of hit points.

Yukitsu
2009-08-24, 10:18 PM
Looks good on a glance, but the only real way to find out is a playtest of it. I think you'll want to keep levels low however. Probably works best 3-7 is my guess.

PumpkinEater
2009-08-24, 10:45 PM
Looks good on a glance, but the only real way to find out is a playtest of it. I think you'll want to keep levels low however. Probably works best 3-7 is my guess.

Yeah, I know what you mean, although I'm not sure if I can. The players are uhh... not content with the lower levels. Or something like that.

Anyway, about the classes: Do you see any class-role that's missing? Like, do I need to create another class?

Yukitsu
2009-08-24, 10:52 PM
Not really. Any party can get by with 2 adepts and 2 experts, so long as the party knows what they're doing, and I've seen full, functional parties that have less versatility and variety than what those classes represent. It really all depends on the preferences of your group. If they can make the characters they want with those classes, then they should be fine.

PId6
2009-08-24, 11:05 PM
You seem to have all of the roles down. The fighter's versatility lets him specialize into things like unarmed specialist or "knight", so that should work alright. If you have no divine magic, then that's pretty much all the roles you really need.

But honestly, the class list seems a bit, well, boring to me. The classes seem fairly balanced in that they're all pretty low-tier, but none of them besides the magician seem to have much options, which has always been the biggest issue with fighter types. Most of them will just end up full-attacking every round with little variety, which is the reason I much prefer ToB and casters to other classes. But if your group can have fun with that, then I don't see anything you're missing (though I'm a bit curious why there's a ranger, hunter, and marksman).

PumpkinEater
2009-08-25, 04:25 PM
You seem to have all of the roles down. The fighter's versatility lets him specialize into things like unarmed specialist or "knight", so that should work alright. If you have no divine magic, then that's pretty much all the roles you really need.

But honestly, the class list seems a bit, well, boring to me. The classes seem fairly balanced in that they're all pretty low-tier, but none of them besides the magician seem to have much options, which has always been the biggest issue with fighter types. Most of them will just end up full-attacking every round with little variety, which is the reason I much prefer ToB and casters to other classes. But if your group can have fun with that, then I don't see anything you're missing (though I'm a bit curious why there's a ranger, hunter, and marksman).

Huh. I'm not actually totally sure what the ToB is.

I made the Ranger class a while ago, and I figured that I might as well toss it in. The Hunter wasn't made all that long ago, but I also figured that I might as well toss it in. I don't know why I made the Marksman. :smallbiggrin:

Sinfire Titan
2009-08-25, 04:31 PM
Huh. I'm not actually totally sure what the ToB is.

I made the Ranger class a while ago, and I figured that I might as well toss it in. The Hunter wasn't made all that long ago, but I also figured that I might as well toss it in. I don't know why I made the Marksman. :smallbiggrin:

Tome of Battle: The Book of Nine Swords. Splat book, and one of the best books WotC has ever printed.

PumpkinEater
2009-08-25, 04:33 PM
Tome of Battle: The Book of Nine Swords. Splat book, and one of the best books WotC has ever printed.

Ah. Why is it so good?

Umael
2009-08-25, 04:35 PM
If you can, check out Iron Heroes.

It is a low-magic world that features ten new classes, only one of which uses magic.

PId6
2009-08-25, 04:51 PM
Huh. I'm not actually totally sure what the ToB is.
Tome of Battle. It gives melee characters a lot of Nice Things, similar to what casters get though with a decidedly martial flavor. Basically, you get a list of "maneuvers' which you can use in place of just regular attacks. For example, one such maneuver lets you deal 2d6 extra damage and ignore an enemy's DR and hardness in one standard action, while another one lets you grab an enemy and throw them.

Once I played a Tome of Battle martial class, the normal martial classes like fighter and ranger just seemed utterly boring in comparison since they're limited to just attack attack, while ToB classes get to choose from a whole list of different options. There's a nice review here (http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/12/12406.phtml) that gives you an idea of how the system works if you like.

Yora
2009-08-25, 04:56 PM
I. The Fighter (No change, with the exception that they receive Weapon Focus as a bonus feat at level 1, and slightly more skill points)
II. The Rogue (No change)
III. The Ranger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121039)
IV. The Hunter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6678753#post6678753)
V. The Magician (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6573800#post6573800)
VI. The Marksman (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120972)

Okay. I'm planning on running a quick test with my players with these classes, but unfortunately, as you can see, the list is extraordinarily thin. I can't think of too many roles I don't have covered. I'm just wondering if there's anything really missing? I looked through the PhB classes, and none of them (excluding the fighter and rogue; the ranger was redone) would fit in.

As a note, this is for a low-magic campaign. There is a God, but it does not grant spells.
Maybe it's just me, but it seems at least half of the critical information is missing?
What are you attempting to do and why?

Sinfire Titan
2009-08-25, 05:00 PM
Ah. Why is it so good?

Because it's fun. It's very difficult to make an ineffective character using that book, whereas you can very easily render a character completely worthless in other splat books. Look at how difficult it is to make an Artificer or a Wizard. It requires a great deal of knowledge and system mastery to even make the basic build optimized, and even more effort in a tactical sense to play one effectively.

Comparatively, it's very difficult to make a Crusader suck without the DM going out of his way to make him suck. Your choices during character creation and in combat mean a lot less; so long as you are taking actions and using your class features at all you are able to do something meaningful in combat.

Think of it like this: You have a single class that has a means of contributing a major resource to any encounter (combat or otherwise), and someone who is playing a Rogue without Ranks in any skills. One can do something at any given time, and the other gets shut down by a single ability that is incredibly common in the premade modules.

A Crusader, Swordsage, or Warblade will be able to do something in any reasonable situation you put them in. The DM will have to go out of his way to prevent them from contributing.

PinkysBrain
2009-08-25, 05:45 PM
Lack of magical healing means lack of melee ... or if the non injured characters (especially the magician with his mirror images) push the game ahead it will always be the melee characters who end up dead to pay the price for their unwillingness to wait.

Unless you are intent on teaching the melee players to stop playing melee or carry a stack of sheets without investing too much emotionally in any one character I wouldn't make healing too difficult.