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CyberRebirth
2009-08-24, 11:46 PM
I just came up with an amazing idea for a campaign, a vision of one of my long time favorite PC's turned NPC Taerar (pronounced like Terror) is standing on a cliff, his face and hands lifted to a colossal mass of energy. Wind is blowing everywhere chaotically and a great machine is powering this ball of destruction.

The PC's arrive on scene to find the powerful Warlock, the hidden mastermind behind an end of the world cult. He taunts the PC's, there is no way to stop his plan now. An epic battle beneath the cacophonous sphere of power. As the PC's finally defeat him they turn their attention toward the great power that threatens to annihilate the entire prime material.

They learn that one of the only ways to stop this destruction is for one of them to sacrifice themselves to put an end to the mass of energy. The paladin (or other good character) decides that he must do this. He runs toward the matrix of the machine, and his body acts as a lightning rod. The entire structure begins to fall, and as they escape, the sphere fluctuates and disperses. But victory is hollow, as they realize their comrade is gone.

Huh... got a little carried away there...

I suppose what my point of typing all that was to ask you guys for some ideas and plot points I could use to make this awesome climax happen.

[Edited: Made it seem less required of the party to sacrifice a member]

erikun
2009-08-25, 12:14 AM
Interesting idea for a story, TERRIBLE idea for a campaign. (I hope I emphasized that enough.)

Anyways, remember that the DM does not tell the players what their characters do (http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=1168). It should be the character's decision to do something or not - railroading them into making a decision isn't fun for anyone. Telling them that their character now commits suicide for the greater good (despite their requests otherwise) is the worst kind of railroading you could do, and will probably end the campaign right there.

Now, the idea isn't without merit. The magical matrix MacGuffin could be present somewhere in the world, and the Paladin could voluntarily throw himself into is to stop whatever Big Bad Evil Guy is planning on taking over the world today. However, requiring a character to do so because the literally have no choice is not something you want to do.

CyberRebirth
2009-08-25, 12:17 AM
Perhaps that's a good point. I could probably of course have another way to stop it, but one good way to stop it would be to sacrifice one's self.

I'm sure at least one person in the group would think it was awesome to have a chance to be "The Hero" but if not, I could surely have a backup plan.

erikun
2009-08-25, 12:20 AM
Yeah, the problem isn't letting the hero make noble sacrifice. It's forcing someone to be the hero and make the noble sacrifice. :smalltongue: That said, having an "I win" button on the PCs side that requires one of them to give up everything would make for some interesting roleplay...

CyberRebirth
2009-08-25, 12:23 AM
My thoughts exactly.

Now all I need is a good story that comes before all this :smalleek:

I know that I want the party to face Taerar at least once before this, but I would have some sort of escape planned for him.

And I know that I want Taerar to be as his name implies, terrifying and ruthless.

He'll also need to unearth/build/find the machine.

Doc Roc
2009-08-25, 12:27 AM
Unfortunately, I have to add my voice to the cacophony of warnings that will coming. A friend of mine ran a thing that we've come to call the tomb of bull****, after the tomb of horrors. The tomb made the gygaxian style look positively sane and merciful, sucked every bit of joy out of the campaign, and ended in a forced character death.

No one has played with him seriously since.

CyberRebirth
2009-08-25, 12:29 AM
I of course, would never force a character death, t'was merely an idea of an "I win" button, as erikun suggested.

The Glyphstone
2009-08-25, 12:57 AM
The problem is that building a campaign backwards like this is very, very dangerously prone to railroading, because it's entirely built specifically to deliver the PCs to the 'awesome scene'. For example, Mr. Warlock will have to have invincible plot armor, because he can't die to a lucky x4 scythe crit before you get to the climax of the adventure. Nothing the PCs do can stop him from building this doom machine, because it would likewise prevent the climatic sacrifice scene from unfolding. And whatever you do, avoid 'chosen one' prophecies like the plague, because then it becomes increasingly harder to kill the PC's even.

Basically, the temptation for you to ignore what the PCs might attempt to do or succeed at doing to derail his plans might be too powerful, simply to facilitate laying out this incredible awesome ending scene - that your players, which we don't know anything about - might not find nearly as awesome as you do.

CyberRebirth
2009-08-25, 01:02 AM
I suppose all that is true, but I never really said that it would be impossible for them to beat him before all this starts, I hate plot railroading and would never certainly not get angry if the end up stopping them. What this is, is the best possible scenario, a balance of the bad guys getting what they want, and the good guys winning some battles.

A few red herrings, a few distractions, and some backup plans if the PC's decide to do something completely unexpected.

This scene I describe is one of the possibilities.

I would be fine with them derailing it somehow. All I really need is some ideas, and less criticism about "railroading"

Please.

Berserk Monk
2009-08-25, 01:04 AM
{Scrubbed}

The Glyphstone
2009-08-25, 01:15 AM
I suppose all that is true, but I never really said that it would be impossible for them to beat him before all this starts, I hate plot railroading and would never certainly not get angry if the end up stopping them. What this is, is the best possible scenario, a balance of the bad guys getting what they want, and the good guys winning some battles.

A few red herrings, a few distractions, and some backup plans if the PC's decide to do something completely unexpected.

This scene I describe is one of the possibilities.

I would be fine with them derailing it somehow. All I really need is some ideas, and less criticism about "railroading"

Please.

You may not have explicitly stated it wasn't impossible, but asking for


for some ideas and plot points I could use to make this awesome climax happen.

seems pretty focused on this particular outcome, not alternatives.

Just as long as you're not inextricably tied to the described scene - something you did not mention in the original post, bear in mind - then it's a great focus for a campaign. I'd say 'Race to the MacGuffins' is the best classic plot-outline to use: The bad guy needs, say, 7 pieces to finish the Doom Machine, and there's 12 possible pieces hidden all over the world (totally random number choices) - the campaign becomes about the PCs figuring out where the McFragments and either getting there before he does, or getting them away from whatever inept henchmen he sends to collect the pieces for him. Once the PCs have foiled enough of his collection attempts, he has no choice but to come after them to get the material he needs. And conversely, if they screw up enough and he gets his hands on the 7 bits to build the McMachine, they have to assault/infiltrate his stronghold and stop him before he finishes his McEvil Plot.

CyberRebirth
2009-08-25, 01:26 AM
Thank you Glyphstone, that is actually one of the ideas I was toying with. Having Taerar send out minions to collect artifacts that would be use to build this machine.

And yes, I really would not mind if they ultimately foiled his plan, I would just find a way to continue and make a new adventure.

Inarius
2009-08-25, 01:27 AM
Well, if youre really tied to the scene you could perhaps use it as the opening scene. They arrive there, get taunted by the warlock, the battle ensues but something goes wrong with the warlocks plans due to the distraction of the PCs and the world goes black/white/whatever color you choose. They wake up several weeks or months before the incident and play out from there trying to figure out how to throw a wrench in Taerar's plans. Bit cheesy, but might make for an interesting setting, knowing what will happen and trying to figure out how it can be prevented.

CyberRebirth
2009-08-25, 01:28 AM
Well, if youre really tied to the scene you could perhaps use it as the opening scene. They arrive there, get taunted by the warlock, the battle ensues but something goes wrong with the warlocks plans due to the distraction of the PCs and the world goes black/white/whatever color you choose. They wake up several weeks or months before the incident and play out from there trying to figure out how to throw a wrench in Taerar's plans. Bit cheesy, but might make for an interesting setting, knowing what will happen and trying to figure out how it can be prevented.

Oh, I think I like this idea, I'm definitely considering this one.

Kurald Galain
2009-08-25, 04:18 AM
Colossal mass of energy, standard action, encounter

Attack: +42 vs Will
Hit: The world is destroyed (save ends).

CyberRebirth
2009-08-25, 11:35 AM
Colossal mass of energy, standard action, encounter

Attack: +42 vs Will
Hit: The world is destroyed (save ends).

:smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

I was waiting for something like this

Sipex
2009-08-25, 12:44 PM
Very awesome joke there.

Some things you have to consider.

What is 'terror's objective? Why does he want to destroy the world? Does he know he's going to destroy the world?

Planning out cool scenes isn't a bad thing but just always make sure you're not expecting them to happen...and if they happen, plan for the event that they aren't as cool as you'd hoped.

(ie: Terrar is blown into the mass of energy by a PC attack first round. Technically this would stop the mass of energy and kill Terrar at the same time)

AgentPaper
2009-08-25, 01:04 PM
I like the time-cycle idea as well. It's been done to good effect a number of times in games, at least. The best way to go about it, that I could see:

Game starts, players are level 20 or so, something a tier before the level you want them to end up at, for example level 20 if you want the game to end at 25-30. They'll actually make their characters at level 1, but you take them and write up a level 20 or whatever version. (perhaps with a bit less powers/feats etc to worry about) They fight through some encounters that are rather easy, but at the end of it they find out that they're too late, the warlock has succeeded in taking control of the ultimate power, is invincible, etc. (make it obvious that the warlock is now just plain invincible due to the power he's gained)

Then, at the last second, the players find a way to make the machine malfunction (you might end up having to railroad them into this, but they should leap at the chance to do something, and I can't see any way to avoid the railroad. If the players really just refuse to do the obvious thing, have the machine malfunction on it's own, or have some NPC do it, or have it happen by accident when a player does something else, etc.)

There's a flash of white light, the warlock screams in rage, and the players find themselves waking up in the same place that the previous events happened, but there's no trace of the warlock, his minions, the machine, or even of any kind of disruption at all. They've freaked out some wildlife, maybe a hunter that was nearby, but other than that it's peaceful. They remember everything that happened just fine, but -- GASP! -- they've lost all their power! They're level 1 again! (or whatever level you want them to start at)

Eventually the players learn that they have been shunted exactly 1 month (or whatever, that's probably a bit short) before the warlock's plans come to fruition. They also learn that whatever malfunction they did has caused them to be in a stable time loop. How this all functions would have to be figured out, (Do things they do stay done each loop? Can they team up with themselves?) but one thing that should definitely happen is that they don't lose their experience from being shunted back, so they can keep adventuring and gain experience until they're ready to go at the warlock again, this time for realsies. To prevent them from just trying to kill him a million times until they win by some crazy chance, you could make it so that they still age while going back and forth (which would eventually kill them) and possibly reveal that if they are close to the big boom doom machine when it goes off and they get shunted back, they'll get sent back to level 1 again, or something. (that's probably a bit drastic, but you get the idea)

KillianHawkeye
2009-08-25, 10:11 PM
I dunno about the whole time loop part from the above post, but as for this:


Then, at the last second, the players find a way to make the machine malfunction (you might end up having to railroad them into this, but they should leap at the chance to do something, and I can't see any way to avoid the railroad. If the players really just refuse to do the obvious thing, have the machine malfunction on it's own, or have some NPC do it, or have it happen by accident when a player does something else, etc.)

I say definitely have an NPC do it. Have him be a part of the PCs' group. The NPC sacrifices himself, and time regresses everything back to level 1. Later, they meet the NPC again for the "first" time, and they begin travelling together. Ideally, the NPC can have some relevant information or something that will eventually help lead the PCs toward the evil plot.

Now, at some point this NPC should get killed dramatically, at an earlier point in the story. This will strongly underline that the events of the climax can/will play out differently this time. Obviously, it helps if the PCs can't remember anything about their future adventures besides the climactic battle.

This could work with that time loop thing, but I'd personally avoid it in favor of a "gettting it right this time" kind of story.

CyberRebirth
2009-08-26, 01:33 AM
I love this. The time skip thing is getting more and more awesome as I think about it. But I would need a way to have them make awesome epic tier characters without them being annoyed or pissed that they lost everything upon the end of the final scene.

What if I had them control NPC's that have had to stop the machine before, as some sort of premonition?

CyberRebirth
2009-08-26, 11:36 AM
I just had the thought of a Warforged "Final Messanger" coming in at some point and showing a cryptic image that a dying warforged saw.

Should be interesting.

LibraryOgre
2009-08-26, 01:12 PM
We can't be running end of the world games. It's not time for a new edition, yet. :smallwink:

Rockphed
2009-08-26, 02:30 PM
I love this. The time skip thing is getting more and more awesome as I think about it. But I would need a way to have them make awesome epic tier characters without them being annoyed or pissed that they lost everything upon the end of the final scene.

I think the suggestion of YOU making (ever so slightly) SUB-OPTIMAL level 20 versions of their level 1 characters makes this significantly easier to take. Even if sub-optimal just means being limited to level appropriate magic weapons and other such gear instead of the nifty special ones, they still don't have that fun of gear, and they only had it for 1 fight.

The other option is to have them start at some level, say 5 or 10, and when the SPELL O' DOOM is stopped, it sends them back in time so that there are 2 of themselves running around.

CyberRebirth
2009-08-26, 08:56 PM
That's what I was thinking. Having them tell me what kind of character they wanted to play, making a sub optimal character made out of that, with only starting level items. And then having them fight a lesser version of the intended final fight.

The Glyphstone
2009-08-26, 09:41 PM
I like this idea, particularly with the NPC dying, because then they might decide that what they need to do is get the NPC they met raised from the dead specifically so that he's alive when the climactic moment arrives - giving you another plot thread for them to follow.

CyberRebirth
2009-08-26, 09:47 PM
I think I should take this chance to say that you guys here at GITP are seriously awesome. I would not have had such good ideas for this if not for you.

On another note. I agree with Glyph. The NPC could be a great plot point, and a very cool ally.

CyberRebirth
2009-08-27, 03:02 PM
So I just learned that my players would love this kind of game. I just need to figure out some good minions for my BBEG.