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Samuel Sturm
2009-08-25, 12:00 PM
My DM has given me permission to run a fully optimized bard as part of his upcoming campaign, as long as I focus on buffing, not fighting.

So, I need a Fully Optimized Bard who concentrates on buffing the party, and a bit of diplomacy skill if I can manage it.

My stats are currently:

10 Str
13 Dex
15 Con
17 Int
16 Wis
18 Chr

I can redistribute those if needed.

We're starting at lvl 3, with normal WBL

I know there's a skillmonkey rouge, an exalted monk(by far the scariest monk I've ever seen, does 3d6 dex damage every time he hits:smalleek:), a summoning focused sorcerer, a whip based fighter:smallconfused:, a barbarian, and a either cleric or druid.

I'd really like a build that lasts through lvl 20, as the DM has said the campaign will take us to about lvl 24.

Thanks!

Doc Roc
2009-08-25, 12:09 PM
13 Str
15 Dex
16 Con
17 Int
10 Wis
18 Chr
Wis is dump-tastic for you. Here is my optimized build with cites on sources.
Link (http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AYdLcxsM7Nx0ZGc2NzhibjNfNTdjZjVtODNmOA&hl=en)

Another example (http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AYdLcxsM7Nx0ZGc2NzhibjNfNTdjZjVtODNmOA&hl=en)

Ask your GM how the Harmonious Knight substitution levels from the Champions of Valor web enhancement stack with being a bard. Further, is tome of battle allowed? Finally, how do you feel about being a land-pirate later in life?

Frosty
2009-08-25, 12:13 PM
Wow...a LOT of melee fighters in your group. Are you going Dragonfire Inspiration? Your group will be scarier...much scarier.

Draz74
2009-08-25, 12:32 PM
Yeah, so ... overall, what do you want to focus on? We can make you an incredible Caster bard (Sublime Chord), who is amazing at buffing just because he turns into a pseudo-Sorcerer at high levels. Or you can optimize Bardic Music to just make your party incredible when you sing at them (Words of Creation, Dragonfire Inspiration). Or we can keep the "jack-of-all-trades" feel of the bard and make you pretty good at singing, pretty good at casting, not amazing at anything. Or, while all 3 of those options will have good Diplomacy skills, we could also tell you how to do nothing but trick out your Diplomacy skill and get it astronomically high.

Which kind of Bard do you want?


an exalted monk(by far the scariest monk I've ever seen, does 3d6 dex damage every time he hits:smalleek:),

Only against evil creatures, and only if they're not immune to poisons (undead!), and only if they fail a pretty easy Fortitude save. And the save DC doesn't scale as you go up in level.

Touch of Golden Ice is an overpowered feat, yeah. But not too overpowered, especially at higher levels. The Monk will still suck ... eventually.

RagnaroksChosen
2009-08-25, 12:36 PM
I would suegest just concentrating on music/ casting


Try to snage song of the heart from ebberon.. (not realy setting specific(fluff wise) its just in the book).
+1 to a bunch of your songs.

and snag that spell from the spell compendium that increases your inspire song...

+3 to hit and dmg at level 3 its nice.

LibraryOgre
2009-08-25, 12:40 PM
10 Str
13 Dex
15 Con
17 Int
16 Wis
18 Chr


Str 13
Dex 17
Con 16
Int 18
Wis 10
Chr 15

OMG, where did my Charisma go? Relax, you're a buffing bard, meaning you don't need a high save bonus. What you do want is good stats for keeping alive (i.e. Constitution for HP and your Weak Fort save, Dex for AC), and scads of skill points for various bard necessities (like getting training in tons of different things).

Now, other people can help you with the feats if you're going no-holds-bard1, optimization... there's some Dragonfire Inspiration stuff that's apparently pretty sweet. However, for a straight bard who concentrates on buffing, that's a good list.

Spells. Concentrate on buffing spells, or spells that do things even while debuffing. At 3rd level, your spells should probably look something like this:

0th: Mending, Summon Instrument, Prestidigitation, Mage Hand, Resistance, Read Magic. Mending is nice whenever someone breaks your stuff. Prestidigitation and Mage hand are simply extremely generally useful. Read Magic is great for when you need to use a scroll (because you're going to want decent ranks in UMD). Resistance is there because you're a buff-bard, and sometimes tossing a +1 to save when fighting a poisoning or fearing monster is what it takes.

1st: Remove Fear, Comprehend Languages, Cure Light Wounds. Remove Fear because a fearing monster can really screw up any battle plan y'all may have. Comprehend languages because there are things that need to be read or heard. Cure Light Wounds because your party is short on clerics, and while everyone will tell you "combat healing is for chumps", they stop arguing when you toss a 1st level spell that keeps them from bleeding out... at lower levels, combat healing is sometimes a necessity, and you don't always have the funds to use a wand or a potion.

1 Yes, this was intentional. Laugh it up, son.

Douglas
2009-08-25, 12:53 PM
For feats you want Song of the Heart (Eberron Campaign Setting), Words of Creation (Book of Exalted Deeds), and Dragonfire Inspiration (Dragon Magic?). Get Inspirational Boost (Spell Compendium) on your spells known list. Get a Badge of Valor (Magic Item Compendium) for an extra +1 Inspire Courage 3 times per day. It's cheap enough you can probably afford one already. Plan to eventually get a Vest of Legends (DMG2). Pick a masterwork instrument from Complete Adventurer.

At about level 10 with all of this, you'll be using Inspire Courage for +9 attack and damage, Dragonfire Inspiration for +9d6 damage, and Inspire Greatness on three targets for +3 attack, +2 fort, and +3 temp hit dice. Oh, and none of these require concentration to maintain, so you can have all three of them going after three rounds and all three will last as long as you continue to perform, plus 5 rounds. Keep going in Bard and Inspire Courage will keep on going up and eventually you'll add Inspire Heroics to the pile. Melodic Casting from Complete Mage will allow you to cast buff spells while maintaining your songs, too.

Draz74
2009-08-25, 01:00 PM
If you go the optimize-Singing route, and you want Dragonfire Inspiration, note that:

- it is indeed from Dragon Magic
- you will need to choose a race, template, or feat that makes you [Dragonblooded]. The easiest way is to play a Kobold or pick up the Dragonborn template, but other ways may allow you to give your team Acid damage instead of Fire damage, for example.


Oh, and none of these require concentration to maintain, so you can have all three of them going after three rounds and all three will last as long as you continue to perform, plus 5 rounds.

Most DMs rule that you can't be performing more than one Bard Song at the same time, even though the rules don't specifically prohibit it. (Heck, many DMs don't even think you can fight while maintaining a Bard Song, though I think they're very wrong.)

FinalJustice
2009-08-25, 01:00 PM
Then you can go Sublime Chord for sweet Sorcerer/Wizard spells. Lots of buffing on those.

Samuel Sturm
2009-08-25, 01:35 PM
Ok, so a kobold with dragonfire inspiration is sounding good.


Str 13
Dex 17
Con 16
Int 18
Wis 10
Chr 15

OMG, where did my Charisma go? Relax, you're a buffing bard, meaning you don't need a high save bonus. What you do want is good stats for keeping alive (i.e. Constitution for HP and your Weak Fort save, Dex for AC), and scads of skill points for various bard necessities (like getting training in tons of different things).

Now, other people can help you with the feats if you're going no-holds-bard, optimization... there's some Dragonfire Inspiration stuff that's apparently pretty sweet. However, for a straight bard who concentrates on buffing, that's a good list.

Spells. Concentrate on buffing spells, or spells that do things even while debuffing. At 3rd level, your spells should probably look something like this:

0th: Mending, Summon Instrument, Prestidigitation, Mage Hand, Resistance, Read Magic. Mending is nice whenever someone breaks your stuff. Prestidigitation and Mage hand are simply extremely generally useful. Read Magic is great for when you need to use a scroll (because you're going to want decent ranks in UMD). Resistance is there because you're a buff-bard, and sometimes tossing a +1 to save when fighting a poisoning or fearing monster is what it takes.

1st: Remove Fear, Comprehend Languages, Cure Light Wounds. Remove Fear because a fearing monster can really screw up any battle plan y'all may have. Comprehend languages because there are things that need to be read or heard. Cure Light Wounds because your party is short on clerics, and while everyone will tell you "combat healing is for chumps", they stop arguing when you toss a 1st level spell that keeps them from bleeding out... at lower levels, combat healing is sometimes a necessity, and you don't always have the funds to use a wand or a potion.


Thanks, man. That's exactly the kind of advice on spells I needed.



Yeah, so ... overall, what do you want to focus on? We can make you an incredible Caster bard (Sublime Chord), who is amazing at buffing just because he turns into a pseudo-Sorcerer at high levels. Or you can optimize Bardic Music to just make your party incredible when you sing at them (Words of Creation, Dragonfire Inspiration). Or we can keep the "jack-of-all-trades" feel of the bard and make you pretty good at singing, pretty good at casting, not amazing at anything. Or, while all 3 of those options will have good Diplomacy skills, we could also tell you how to do nothing but trick out your Diplomacy skill and get it astronomically high.

Which kind of Bard do you want?

{trim}

I want/need to focus on buffing with this guy. Dragonfire inspiration sounds good.

So let's see...

Right now it's looking like;

Kobold bard 3

Str 13
Dex 17
Con 16
Int 18
Wis 10
Chr 15

lvl 1 feat Dragonfire inspiration?

Draz74
2009-08-25, 02:12 PM
So let's see...

Right now it's looking like;

Kobold bard 3

Str 13
Dex 17
Con 16
Int 18
Wis 10
Chr 15

lvl 1 feat Dragonfire inspiration?

That all works, except that I'm not sure I agree with moving your 18 score away from Charisma. Bonus spells, and all that. Meh, it's up to you.

Don't forget Kobold racial ability adjustments. -2 CON is going to hurt.

Level 3 Feat: Song of the Heart (from Eberron Campaign Setting).
Level 6 Feat: Words of Creation. (I'm assuming Exalted feats are fine.)

Don't forget to make Inspirational Boost (from SpC) one of your Level 1 Spells Known, even this early in the game. It's a key part of your Inspire Courage combo. So is Badge of Valor (MIC), but that would be over half your WBL at L3. Pick it up at L4.

Feat options beyond L6:


Extra Music (CAdv) is always nice if you have a spare feat.
If you want to be able to fight a little yourself while you sing, you need Snowflake Wardance (Frostburn). With that and a Feycraft (DMG2, I think) Short Sword, you'll be plenty accurate even with terrible Strength, and with Dragonfire Inspiration you'll do decent damage.
Two feats and an item, or one feat and a one-level dip in Warblade or Crusader, can get you the Song of the White Raven feat (ToB). This lets you initiate a Song of Courage as a swift action instead of a standard action. This is less awesome than it sounds, because often you'll be needing to use your swift actions anyway on the Inspirational Boost spell or the Bade of Valor item. Still, the other benefits you get along the way from ToB-dipping are nice anyway (e.g. Leading the Charge stance).