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Myou
2009-08-25, 05:04 PM
Hey all!

I'm working on my epic rules (still) and I need more epic feats, so if you've any ideas for epic-level feats then please post them. :smallsmile:

I've thrown out epic spellcasting as it is, so no Epic Spellcasting feats. I'm also only using some of the listed epic feats, a lot I've tossed out.


So, what can you guys think of? ^^


(Spell levels progress without the need for a feat, at the same speed as they do normally. Yes, full casters get 10th level spells at level 19.)

(I'm not including any psionic feats because I don’t use psionics and don’t know them well enough.)

I'll put my list up soon, I've nearly finished compiling a list.


Edit: Ok! My list is up! Everyone P.E.A.C.H! :smallsmile:
Edit: The previous upload expired, so there's a new one now.

Current revision: Word .doc (http://www.sendspace.com/file/083oyr)

Milskidasith
2009-08-25, 05:14 PM
Epic Tripping:

Prereq: Int 13, Combat Reflexes, Improved Trip.

Every time you make a trip attack, it deals the same damage as a normal attack. You may make all of your full attack attempts a trip attempt. You still gain AoOs for tripping an opponent as normal. Any AoO on an opponent attempting to stand up automatically trips them if it hits.

I think it needs to be worded a bit better, and it may make tripping overpowered, but it seems like a cool feat. Then again, making every attack a touch attack may be a bit much, but it is an epic feat.

The Demented One
2009-08-25, 05:27 PM
I'm gonna go through and just convert a lot of Exalted charms into epic feat ideas....

There Is No Wind: Give ranged attacks unlimited range.

Arrow Storm Technique: Make a single ranged attack an area attack, to represent shooting off a giant cloud of arrows as one attack.

Knockout Blow: Upgrade stunning fist, automatically deal nonlethal damage to an enemy equal to its max hp for some cost.

Peony Blossom Attack: Negate iterative attack penalties.

Iron Whirlwind: Upgrade to Peony Blossom, gain additional iterative attacks.

Iron Raptor Technique: Male melee attacks at range.

Heavenly Guardian Defense: Expend an AoO to completely negate an attack.

Ready in Eight Directions Stance: Anyone who attacks you in melee provokes a counterattack–which doesn't require you to expend an AoO.

Joint-Wounding Attack: Attacks that deal a certain amount of damage impose penalties on enemies.

Observer-Deceiving Attack: Deny an enemy their Dex bonus to AC by paying some cost.

Tiger Warrior Training Technique: Upgrade Leadership, all followers gestalt their normal levels with Fighter levels.

Elusive Dream Defense: Negate a mind-affecting ability by paying some cost, become immune to anything that would repeat that influence for the scene.

Memory-Reweaving Discipline: Use bluff checks to mimic the modify memory spell.

Husband-Seducing Demon Dance: Use Performance checks to mimic charm spells.

Hypnotic Tongue Technique: Set a contingent trigger on a social roll, so that it only hits the target later.

Adamant Skin Technique: Gain damage reduction based on your Con score.

Craftsman Needs No Tools: Make Craft checks without the need for tools or workshops, and much faster.

Judge's Ear Technique: Always know when someone is lying to you, even by magic.

Harmonious Academic Methodology: Upgrade Leadership, all your followers gain gestalt levels in Magewright.

All-Encompassing Sorcerer's Sight: Gain permanent true seeing and greater arcane sight.

Graceful Crane Stance: Always succeed on Balance checks.

Mountain-Crossing Leap Technique: Use Jump checks to jump for miles, instead of feet.

Lightning Speed: Run at speeds of multiple miles per hour.

Spider-Foot Style: Permanent spider climb effect.

Unsurpassed Sense Discipline: Always succeed on Spot and Listen checks.

Surprise Awareness Method: Always keep Dex bonus to AC.

Seven Shadow Evasion: Attacks made with a BAB (including attack bonuses) lower than your Dex modifier automatically miss.

Flow Like Blood: Gain AC bonuses against iterative attacks made in a full attack.

Leaping Dodge Method: Spend an AoO to jump away when you get full attacked.

Flawlessly Impenetrable Disguise: Always succeed on Disguise checks.

Flawless Pickpocketing Technique: Always succeed on Sleight of Hand checks.

Lock-Opening Touch: Always succeed on Open Lock checks, no tools required.

Door-Evading Technique: Become ethereal.

Easily Overlooked Presence Method: Always succeed on Hide and Move Silently checks.

Vanishing from the Mind's Eye Method: Make retroactive Hide and Move Silently checks, to make people who've already noticed you forget you're there.

Flashing Thunderbolt Steed: Dramatically increase the speed of any mount the character rides.

Sometimes Horses Fly Approach: Any mount the character rides gains a fly speed.

PId6
2009-08-25, 05:49 PM
Is this allowing ToB? If so...

Epic Maneuver Recovery - At the start of your turn once per round, choose an expended maneuver and it's automatically recovered. Take this multiple times to recover more than one per round.

Epic Boost - You may use two boosts in one swift action three times per day. You may take this multiple times to use it 3 more times per day. (Swordsage ability adds to number of times per day.)

Epic Stance - You may gain the benefits of two stances at one time. This stacks with the warblade's Stance Mastery ability. You may take this multiple times. Each time adds an additional stance that you may use at one time. (Should probably restrict this to level 25+ and/or have some other epic feat restrictions.)

Intensify Maneuvers 1-5 - Double all beneficial numerical effects of maneuvers and stances of first, second, third, fourth, and fifth levels. If it deals damage, double the damage dealt. If it grants resistance, adds speed, heals HP, grants a penalty, or provides a bonus, double the effect. Only numbers beneficial to you are doubled; those that penalizes you are left as they are. You may take this multiple times; each time adds 100% of the original value to the numerical bonuses.

Intensify Maneuvers 6-9 - As Intensify Maneuvers 1-5, but applicable to all maneuvers of sixth, seventh, eighth, and ninth levels. Requires Intensify Maneuvers 1-5 as a prerequisite.

Searing Sands - While in a Desert Wind stance, you may ignore the fire resistance and fire immunity of enemies.

Guardian of Steel - While in a Devoted Spirit stance, you may double the size of your Steely Resolve delayed damage pool. In addition, whenever an ally within 30 ft of you take damage, you make take the damage instead into your delayed damage pool as long as you have room (or take as much damage as you have room for). Any negative effects of the attack besides damage still apply to the ally struck.

Impassive Mind - While in a Diamond Mind stance, you can always choose to take 20 on Concentration checks.

Iron Guard - While in an Iron Heart stance, you are never considered flat-footed and may use immediate actions even before your first turn.

Counter Strike - While in a Setting Sun stance, whenever you successfully use a Setting Sun counter against an enemy, you may immediately initiate a standard action Setting Sun strike against that enemy if they are within range of the strike,

Ephemeral Body - While in a Shadow Hand stance, you may become incorporeal or not as a free action.

Mountain Heights - While in a Stone Dragon stance, you no longer need to touch the earth to use Stone Dragon maneuvers.

Leaping Tiger - While in a Tiger Strike stance, on any turn in which you make a successful Jump check, all your attacks that turn automatically threaten critical hits.

Raven's Flight - While in a White Raven stance, every ally with a lower initiative count than you automatically have their initiative set to 1 below your own.

Milskidasith
2009-08-25, 05:55 PM
Rejuvanating Soul seems kind of weak... I'm not sure how much your charisma bonus would be, but even if you max it, fast healing (~15) isn't that great around epic levels.

zerombr
2009-08-25, 05:56 PM
I like those ToB epic feats! very nice, and not overpowered, well...compared to Epic Spellcasting not much is overpowered

Myou
2009-08-25, 06:06 PM
Tomorrow I will have to compile some sort of list of the feats I have so far, and these. :3

Keep them coming, they're much appreciated!

PId6
2009-08-25, 06:11 PM
Rejuvanating Soul seems kind of weak... I'm not sure how much your charisma bonus would be, but even if you max it, fast healing (~15) isn't that great around epic levels.
Yeah, some of the disciplines I had difficulty thinking up for (especially Devoted Spirit and Setting Sun). Maybe some kind of "take hits from your allies into your Steely Resolve" type of deal?

Elfin
2009-08-25, 06:15 PM
Those ToB feats look great.
But why would you ever get any other Intensify Maneuver besides 7-9?

PId6
2009-08-25, 06:19 PM
Those ToB feats look great.
But why would you ever get any other Intensify Maneuver besides 7-9?
Thanks!
I'm thinking that the later ones would require the previous ones as prereqs, but I'm not sure if that's gimping them a lot.

Milskidasith
2009-08-25, 06:33 PM
Well, I'm not a CharOP wizard or anything, but Automatic Quicken 7-9 spell seems worth it even though it requires you to take the other automatic quicken spells. (Then again, automatically quickening spells level 1-3 isn't half bad, honestly, and automatically quickening 4-6 and 7-9 is just broken, and I'm sure there are ways to get the same effect by level 17 by just having the right combination of feats that makes Quicken Spell be a +0 spell). So requiring the previous ones as Prereqs is fine, though I'd consider making it 1-5 and 6-9 instead of 1-3 4-6 and 7-9.

Elfin
2009-08-25, 06:34 PM
That sounds much better.

PId6
2009-08-25, 06:46 PM
Okay, I've edited Intensify Maneuvers to only 2 levels and changed the Devoted Spirit feat. I don't play crusaders much though, so it's hard to judge whether it's too powerful or too weak. Opinions?

Elfin
2009-08-25, 06:48 PM
I'm not sure, although it looks pretty good. Another good change might be Iron Guard, since Iron Heart's warblade-only and warblades already have Improved Uncanny Dodge.

PId6
2009-08-25, 06:52 PM
I'm not sure, although it looks pretty good. Another good change might be Iron Guard, since Iron Heart's warblade-only and warblades already have Improved Uncanny Dodge.
Actually, Iron Guard provides a Foresight-esque effect. Uncanny Dodge only lets you retain Dex to AC while flat-footed, but it doesn't eliminate the condition. So Iron Guard just lets you use immediate actions before your first turn.

I agree that some of these are definitely weaker than others, though, so the prerequisites should make up for that.

Cieyrin
2009-08-25, 09:03 PM
Iron Raptor Technique: Male melee attacks at range.

Gah, bad mental images! ~_~

Stycotl
2009-08-26, 12:35 PM
I'm gonna go through and just convert a lot of Exalted charms into epic feat ideas....


Is this allowing ToB? If so...

prereqs would be nice for all of these.

tonberrian
2009-08-26, 12:41 PM
I think that there should be some extra action feats in epic somewhere.

Myou
2009-08-26, 01:11 PM
Ugh, I did not realise how many feats I already had, going through them ad weeding out the bad ones (there are a lot of bad ones - I wrote them when I was still pretty new the 3.5 :smallyuk: ) is taking ages. Still, I'll post a list of them as soon as it's done! ^^

Thanks to everyone who posted so far!


Epic Tripping:

Prereq: Int 13, Combat Reflexes, Improved Trip.

Every time you make a trip attack, it deals the same damage as a normal attack. You may make all of your full attack attempts a trip attempt. You still gain AoOs for tripping an opponent as normal. Any AoO on an opponent attempting to stand up automatically trips them if it hits.

I think it needs to be worded a bit better, and it may make tripping overpowered, but it seems like a cool feat. Then again, making every attack a touch attack may be a bit much, but it is an epic feat.

Oh, I like it, it gives me ideas too. :3

I think I'd take out the bit about standing up letting you re-trip them though.


I'm gonna go through and just convert a lot of Exalted charms into epic feat ideas....

There Is No Wind: Give ranged attacks unlimited range.

Arrow Storm Technique: Make a single ranged attack an area attack, to represent shooting off a giant cloud of arrows as one attack.

Knockout Blow: Upgrade stunning fist, automatically deal nonlethal damage to an enemy equal to its max hp for some cost.

Peony Blossom Attack: Negate iterative attack penalties.

Iron Whirlwind: Upgrade to Peony Blossom, gain additional iterative attacks.

Iron Raptor Technique: Male melee attacks at range.

Heavenly Guardian Defense: Expend an AoO to completely negate an attack.

Ready in Eight Directions Stance: Anyone who attacks you in melee provokes a counterattack–which doesn't require you to expend an AoO.

Joint-Wounding Attack: Attacks that deal a certain amount of damage impose penalties on enemies.

Observer-Deceiving Attack: Deny an enemy their Dex bonus to AC by paying some cost.

Tiger Warrior Training Technique: Upgrade Leadership, all followers gestalt their normal levels with Fighter levels.

Elusive Dream Defense: Negate a mind-affecting ability by paying some cost, become immune to anything that would repeat that influence for the scene.

Memory-Reweaving Discipline: Use bluff checks to mimic the modify memory spell.

Husband-Seducing Demon Dance: Use Performance checks to mimic charm spells.

Hypnotic Tongue Technique: Set a contingent trigger on a social roll, so that it only hits the target later.

Adamant Skin Technique: Gain damage reduction based on your Con score.

Craftsman Needs No Tools: Make Craft checks without the need for tools or workshops, and much faster.

Judge's Ear Technique: Always know when someone is lying to you, even by magic.

Harmonious Academic Methodology: Upgrade Leadership, all your followers gain gestalt levels in Magewright.

All-Encompassing Sorcerer's Sight: Gain permanent true seeing and greater arcane sight.

Graceful Crane Stance: Always succeed on Balance checks.

Mountain-Crossing Leap Technique: Use Jump checks to jump for miles, instead of feet.

Lightning Speed: Run at speeds of multiple miles per hour.

Spider-Foot Style: Permanent spider climb effect.

Unsurpassed Sense Discipline: Always succeed on Spot and Listen checks.

Surprise Awareness Method: Always keep Dex bonus to AC.

Seven Shadow Evasion: Attacks made with a BAB (including attack bonuses) lower than your Dex modifier automatically miss.

Flow Like Blood: Gain AC bonuses against iterative attacks made in a full attack.

Leaping Dodge Method: Spend an AoO to jump away when you get full attacked.

Flawlessly Impenetrable Disguise: Always succeed on Disguise checks.

Flawless Pickpocketing Technique: Always succeed on Sleight of Hand checks.

Lock-Opening Touch: Always succeed on Open Lock checks, no tools required.

Door-Evading Technique: Become ethereal.

Easily Overlooked Presence Method: Always succeed on Hide and Move Silently checks.

Vanishing from the Mind's Eye Method: Make retroactive Hide and Move Silently checks, to make people who've already noticed you forget you're there.

Flashing Thunderbolt Steed: Dramatically increase the speed of any mount the character rides.

Sometimes Horses Fly Approach: Any mount the character rides gains a fly speed.

Wow, loads of great ideas, thanks! :smallsmile:



Is this allowing ToB? If so...

Epic Maneuver Recovery - At the start of your turn once per round, choose an expended maneuver and it's automatically recovered. Take this multiple times to recover more than one per round.

Epic Boost - You may use two boosts in one swift action three times per day. You may take this multiple times to use it 3 more times per day. (Swordsage ability adds to number of times per day.)

Epic Stance - You may gain the benefits of two stances at one time. This stacks with the warblade's Stance Mastery ability. You may take this multiple times. Each time adds an additional stance that you may use at one time. (Should probably restrict this to level 25+ and/or have some other epic feat restrictions.)

Intensify Maneuvers 1-5 - Double all beneficial numerical effects of maneuvers and stances of first, second, third, fourth, and fifth levels. If it deals damage, double the damage dealt. If it grants resistance, adds speed, heals HP, grants a penalty, or provides a bonus, double the effect. Only numbers beneficial to you are doubled; those that penalizes you are left as they are. You may take this multiple times; each time adds 100% of the original value to the numerical bonuses.

Intensify Maneuvers 6-9 - As Intensify Maneuvers 1-5, but applicable to all maneuvers of sixth, seventh, eighth, and ninth levels. Requires Intensify Maneuvers 1-5 as a prerequisite.

Searing Sands - While in a Desert Wind stance, you may ignore the fire resistance and fire immunity of enemies.

Guardian of Steel - While in a Devoted Spirit stance, you may double the size of your Steely Resolve delayed damage pool. In addition, whenever an ally within 30 ft of you take damage, you make take the damage instead into your delayed damage pool as long as you have room (or take as much damage as you have room for). Any negative effects of the attack besides damage still apply to the ally struck.

Impassive Mind - While in a Diamond Mind stance, you can always choose to take 20 on Concentration checks.

Iron Guard - While in an Iron Heart stance, you are never considered flat-footed and may use immediate actions even before your first turn.

Counter Strike - While in a Setting Sun stance, whenever you successfully use a Setting Sun counter against an enemy, you may immediately initiate a standard action Setting Sun strike against that enemy if they are within range of the strike,

Ephemeral Body - While in a Shadow Hand stance, you may become incorporeal or not as a free action.

Mountain Heights - While in a Stone Dragon stance, you no longer need to touch the earth to use Stone Dragon maneuvers.

Leaping Tiger - While in a Tiger Strike stance, on any turn in which you make a successful Jump check, all your attacks that turn automatically threaten critical hits.

Raven's Flight - While in a White Raven stance, every ally with a lower initiative count than you automatically have their initiative set to 1 below your own.

I'll have to look these over carefully, but they look really good!



Well, I'm not a CharOP wizard or anything, but Automatic Quicken 7-9 spell seems worth it even though it requires you to take the other automatic quicken spells. (Then again, automatically quickening spells level 1-3 isn't half bad, honestly, and automatically quickening 4-6 and 7-9 is just broken, and I'm sure there are ways to get the same effect by level 17 by just having the right combination of feats that makes Quicken Spell be a +0 spell). So requiring the previous ones as Prereqs is fine, though I'd consider making it 1-5 and 6-9 instead of 1-3 4-6 and 7-9.

Yeah, I threw the Epic Quicken feats out - no matter how many feats you spend, getting 9th level spells quickened for free is not right.


I think that there should be some extra action feats in epic somewhere.

You mean feats to let you take an extra swift action a turn? Something like that?

tonberrian
2009-08-26, 01:31 PM
Something like that, yeah. Wizards get an equivalent to extra swift actions in Multispell, but that limits you to only Quickened spells. A feat adding extra swift actions would be helpful to everyone else, if not nearly as much.
Also, adding extra Standard actions as well, but that's something that would need an absurdly high prereq in Dex, level, or both.

On an unrelated note, changes to Deflect Arrows so that a character with Infinite Deflection and Exceptional Deflection so that a character with those feats isn't absolutely immune to ranged attacks would not be amiss, but that's really outside the scope of this thread.

Cieyrin
2009-08-26, 01:38 PM
Well, I'm not a CharOP wizard or anything, but Automatic Quicken 7-9 spell seems worth it even though it requires you to take the other automatic quicken spells. (Then again, automatically quickening spells level 1-3 isn't half bad, honestly, and automatically quickening 4-6 and 7-9 is just broken, and I'm sure there are ways to get the same effect by level 17 by just having the right combination of feats that makes Quicken Spell be a +0 spell). So requiring the previous ones as Prereqs is fine, though I'd consider making it 1-5 and 6-9 instead of 1-3 4-6 and 7-9.

That got nerfed to 0 and 1st w/ the first feat and then an additional spell level for every feat after that, so 9 feats to auto-quicken up to 9th.

paddyfool
2009-08-26, 01:58 PM
That Epic Tripping feat would mesh strangely with the Knock-down (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#knockDown) feat... either it would make it pointless, or the combination would mean that for every trip attack that hits, you do another trip attack (can you trip someone who's already been tripped?).

Some more epic feat ideas:

Epic Disarm: You may make a disarm attempt as a free action against any opponent who fails to hit you in melee combat up to a number of times equal to your Dex modifier. Requirements: Improved Disarm, Dex 17+

Epic Dodge: You gain a dodge bonus to AC equal to 1/3 BAB (round down) while not flatfooted, encumbered or wearing heavy armour. Requirements: Dodge (or any feat that counts as Dodge towards feat requirements), Dex 17+.

Epic Grapple: Count as if one size larger for all grappling checks and damage while grappling. Requirements: Improved Grapple, Earth's Embrace

Quick Thinking: You may add your Intelligence modifier to your Initiative bonus, and are never flatfooted against an opponent with less than half your Intelligence. Requirements: Improved Initiative, Combat Expertise

The Tygre
2009-08-26, 03:55 PM
I'm gonna go through and just convert a lot of Exalted charms into epic feat ideas....

*Exalted Charms-to-Feats snip*

You make those. You f#cking make those right now. :smallfurious: I can't live my life unless you make these.

Milskidasith
2009-08-26, 04:08 PM
That Epic Tripping feat would mesh strangely with the Knock-down (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#knockDown) feat... either it would make it pointless, or the combination would mean that for every trip attack that hits, you do another trip attack (can you trip someone who's already been tripped?).


Knock down requires you to hit with a regular attack, and then requires you to make the touch attack to trip and make the check. Epic Trip allows you to make all your attacks (on a standing opponent) as touch attacks that trip and deal normal damage. So there's more benefit in epic tripping. Also, I don't see the "auto trip anybody standing up" thing being overpowered; you still have to hit with the (touch) attack, and you are more than likely able to near automatically make tripping checks if you specced for it.

To clarify a bit:

Knock Down = Make a standard attack for damage, then a touch attack, then a trip check.

Epic Tripping = Make a Touch attack for damage, then make your trip check (not needed if you hit an opponent attempting to stand.)

paddyfool
2009-08-26, 04:19 PM
Knock down requires you to hit with a regular attack, and then requires you to make the touch attack to trip and make the check. Epic Trip allows you to make all your attacks (on a standing opponent) as touch attacks that trip and deal normal damage. So there's more benefit in epic tripping. Also, I don't see the "auto trip anybody standing up" thing being overpowered; you still have to hit with the (touch) attack, and you are more than likely able to near automatically make tripping checks if you specced for it.

To clarify a bit:

Knock Down = Make a standard attack for damage, then a touch attack, then a trip check.

Epic Tripping = Make a Touch attack for damage, then make your trip check (not needed if you hit an opponent attempting to stand.)

So, you're of the opinion that it would simply make Knock-Back pointless. OK.

Personally, I reckon the feat's far too good even as an epic feat. Making melee attacks touch attacks by itself would be a borderline-overpowered epic feat; all of the rest is just getting silly.

Milskidasith
2009-08-26, 04:30 PM
You only get one touch attack in your full attack if you want to full attack the same opponent (well, however many it takes to actually trip the enemy.)

Besides, melee characters need something. Remember, even basic spells are > melee classes. Just because this is a near OHKO for a very specific method doesn't mean it's overpowered.

The Demented One
2009-08-26, 04:54 PM
You make those. You f#cking make those right now. :smallfurious: I can't live my life unless you make these.
But...but...there's no existing balanced epic level framework to balance them against...I'd have to do it completely from the start...damn it all!

There Is No Wind
Your heart knows the arrow's path.
Prerequisites: Far Shot, BAB +20
Benefit: You never take penalties on ranged attack rolls for any reason. In addition, the range increment of any ranged weapon you attack with is unlimited.

Arrow Storm
The armies of the unrighteous fall before you and your bow.
Prerequisites: Improved Manyshot (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#improvedManyshot), BAB +20.
Benefit: Whenever you make a ranged attack, you may choose to apply the attack against all targets in a cone with a length of 5 ft. times half your character level, rounded up. You make only one attack roll, but apply its results to all characters within the area.

Knockout Blow
You topple even behemoths with a single punch.
Prerequisites: Improved Stunning Fist (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#improvedStunningFist), BAB +15.
Benefit: Whenever you make an unarmed attack, you may spend two uses of stunning fist. In addition to the normal effect, if the enemy fails his save, he takes nonlethal damage equal to his maximum hp.

Peony Blossom Attack
You move as swiftly as ice on hot metal, unleashing countless powerful blows
Prerequisites: BAB +20
Benefit: When making a full attack, you take no penalty on iterative attacks.

Iron Whirlwind
You burn with superhuman prowess in battle, moving like lightning.
Prerequisites: Peony Blossom Attack, character level 30th
Benefit: Whenever you make a full attack, you gain one additional iterative attack for every 10 character levels past 20th you have, rounded down.

Iron Raptor
You can strike with preternatural finesse, the winds themselves bearing your blows.
Prerequisites: Weapon Supremacy (http://www.realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Weapon_Supremacy,PH2), BAB +20
Benefit: While wielding a weapon that you have the Weapon Supremacy feat for, you may make melee attacks with it at a range, striking enemies up to 5 times half your character level feet away.

Heavenly Guardian Defense
Like a terrible war machine, you walk through the field of your enemies unmoved.
Prerequisites: Combat Expertise, Weapon Supremacy (http://www.realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Weapon_Supremacy,PH2), BAB +20.
Benefit: Whenever an enemy makes a melee or ranged weapon attack against you, you may take a swift action to perfectly block it–no matter how well that enemy rolls, their attack misses. You must be wielding a melee weapon that you have the Weapon Supremacy feat for in order to use this ability.

Ready in Eight Directions Stance
Those who attack you invite their own death.
Prerequisites: Combat Reflexes, Weapon Supremacy (http://www.realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Weapon_Supremacy,PH2), BAB +20.
Benefit: Whenever an enemy makes a melee attack against you, you make make a melee attack of your own against them as a counterattack. Your attack is resolved before theirs, but does not count as an attack of opportunity. You must be wielding a melee weapon that you have the Weapon Supremacy feat for in order to use this ability.

Joint-Wounding Attack
Even in a pitched battle, you strike with controlled precision, maiming your foes.
Prerequisites: Power Attack, BAB +20.
Benefit: Whenever you deal at least 50 damage to an enemy with a single attack, they take a -1 penalty on all attack rolls and to AC for the duration of the encounter. The penalty is cumulative.

Observer-Deceiving Attack
Your foes are blind to your vengeance, even as it comes upon them.
Prerequisite: Sneak Attack +10d6.
Benefit: As a full-round action, you may make a single melee or ranged attack. If you do, your enemy automatically loses their Dexterity bonus to AC against that attack.

Tiger Warrior Training
You lead a glorious army into battle.
Prerequisites: Leadership, BAB +20.
Benefit: All of your cohorts and followers gain a BAB equal to their character level, instead of what they would normally have. In addition, they gain one bonus feat, drawn from the list of Fighter bonus feats, for every two levels they have, rounded up.

Elusive Dream Defense
Like a dream slipping from a waking man's grasp, you evade attempts to chain your mind.
Prerequisites: Iron Will, base Will save +12.
Benefits: Whenever you are targeted by a mind-affecting ability that allows a save, you may take an amount of non-lethal damage equal to the DC of the save to automatically succeed on it. Nothing can prevent that damage. For the rest of the encounter, you automatically make your save against any subsequent mind-affecting ability that would impose the same influence.

Memory-Reweaving Discipline
You define others' reality.
Prerequisites: Skill Focus (Bluff), Bluff 25 ranks.
Benefit: Whenever your Bluff check to tell a lie exceeds a character's Sense Motive check by 10 or more, you may alter their memories, as the modify memory spell, to make your lie seem completely true to them. This is a supernatural ability.

Husband-Seducing Demon Dance
Your every word is perfection, your every movement grace. All must bow before you in love.
Prerequisites: Skill Focus (Perform), Perform 25 ranks.
Benefit: Whenever you make a Perform check, all characters who witness you must make a Will save, with a DC of half the result of the check. If they fail, they are charmed, as the spell, for 24 hours.

Adamant Skin
Driven by purpose and rage, you become invincible.
Prerequisites: Greater Rage class feature, BAB +20.
Benefit: Whenever you enter a rage, you may add your character level to your damage reduction/– for the duration of the rage.

Judge's Ear
You always know when you are being lied to.
Prerequisites: Skill Focus (Sense Motive), Sense Motive 25 ranks.
Benefit: You automatically succeed on all Sense Motive checks to determine if you are being lied to. If another character has an ability that allows them to automatically succeed on effects that oppose this one, then the character with the higher number of skill ranks prevails. If their is a tie, flip a coin to determine who takes precedence.

Legendary Scholar Curriculum
You are master to countless apprentices of magic.
Prerequisites: Leadership, Knowledge (Arcana) 25 ranks, Spellcraft 25 ranks, Caster level 25th
Benefit: All of your cohorts and followers gain the ability to cast arcane spells as a Wizard of half their character level.

All-Encompassing Sorcerer's Sight
Nothing is hidden from your sight.
Prerequisites: Greater Spell Focus (Divination), Knowledge (Arcana) 25 ranks, Spellcraft 25 ranks, Caster level 30th.
Benefit: You gain the benefit of a constant greater arcane sight and true seeing. This is a supernatural ability.

Graceful Crane Stance
You are as graceful as sunlight on water.
Prerequisites: Skill Focus (Balance), Balance 25 ranks.
Benefit: You gain the effect of a permanent spider climb spell–and this is not a supernatural ability.You automatically succeed on all Balance checks. If another character has an ability that allows them to automatically succeed on effects that oppose this one, then the character with the higher number of skill ranks prevails. If their is a tie, flip a coin to determine who takes precedence.

Mountain-Crossing Leap
Gravity? **** it.
Prerequisites: Skill Focus (Jump), Jump 25 ranks.
Benefit: Whenever you make a long jump, you may make a mountain-crossing leap. You still use the normal table of long jump DC's, but replace "feet" with "miles". You reach a maximum altitude of half the distance of the jump, and take no falling damage. You are still limited by your movement speed, by multiply the amount you may move each round by 50 while making a mountain-crossing leap. If you take any action other than the move action to continue jumping during the mountain-crossing leap, you lose control–you still travel the full difference, but take full falling damage upon impact, land prone, and are stunned for 1d20 rounds upon landing.

Unsurpassed Sense Discipline
Nothing escapes your notice.
Prerequisites: Awareness, Listen 25 ranks, Spot 25 ranks.
Benefit: You automatically succeed on all Listen and Spot checks. You may always make a Spot check in place of a Search check. If another character has an ability that allows them to automatically succeed on effects that oppose this one, then the character with the higher number of skill ranks prevails. If their is a tie, flip a coin to determine who takes precedence.

Seven Shadows Evasion
You are too quick for your enemies to land a blow.
Prerequisites: Combat Expertise, Mobility, Lightning Reflexes, base Reflex save +12.
Benefit: Whenever an enemy makes a melee or ranged weapon attack against you, that attack automatically misses unless the sum of their Base Attack Bonus, epic attack bonus, and Strength or Dexterity modifier, as appropriate, exceeds your Dexterity modifier +15.

Flow Like Blood
You move with impossibly fluid grace.
Prerequisites: Seven Shadows Evasion
Benefit: Whenever an enemy makes a full attack against you, each subsequent attack takes a -5 penalty, beyond normal iterative attack penalties. This also reduces the sum needed to exceed your Dexterity +15 to avoid missing due to Seven Shadows Evasion.

Flawlessly Impenetrable Disguise
None see through your masquerade.
Prerequisites: Skill Focus (Disguise), Disguise 25 ranks.
Benefit: You automatically succeed on all Disguise checks. If another character has an ability that allows them to automatically succeed on effects that oppose this one, then the character with the higher number of skill ranks prevails. If their is a tie, flip a coin to determine who takes precedence.

Flawless Pickpocketing
Yoink!
Prerequisites: Skill Focus (Sleight of Hand), Sleight of Hand 25 ranks.
Benefit: You automatically succeed on all Sleight of Hand checks. If another character has an ability that allows them to automatically succeed on effects that oppose this one, then the character with the higher number of skill ranks prevails. If their is a tie, flip a coin to determine who takes precedence.

Lock-Opening Touch
Unskilled thieves must struggle with lockpicks. Not you.
Prerequisites: Skill Focus (Open Lock), Open Lock 25 ranks.
Benefit: You automatically succeed on all Open Lock checks, regardless of whether or not you have appropriate tools or lockpicks. If another character has an ability that allows them to automatically succeed on effects that oppose this one, then the character with the higher number of skill ranks prevails. If their is a tie, flip a coin to determine who takes precedence.

Easily Overlooked Presence Method
This feat doesn't exist. You're not reading it. Carry on.
Prerequisites: Stealthy, Hide 25 ranks, Move Silently 25 ranks
Benefit: You automatically succeed on all Hide and Move Silently checks. If another character has an ability that allows them to automatically succeed on effects that oppose this one, then the character with the higher number of skill ranks prevails. If their is a tie, flip a coin to determine who takes precedence.

Flashing Thunderbolt Steed
Your mounts are imbued with infinite energy.
Prerequisites: Skill Focus (Ride), Ride 25 ranks
Benefits: Any mount you ride has its base land speed multiplied by 50 while running. This explicitly applies to ridiculous situations, such as riding your party mates.

Sometimes Horses Fly
You inspire your mounts to unusual feats.
Prerequisites: Flashing Thunderbolt Speed
Benefits: Any mount you ride gains a fly speed equal to its base land speed, with perfect maneuverability. This explicitly applies to ridiculous situations, such as riding your party mates.

Balance is completely eye-balled and grounded on the premise that anything these can do, wizards can do better. Logical extensions of some feats, especially the perfect skill check ones, should be obvious. BAB and base save prerequisites do not include epic attack and save bonuses–a feat with BAB +20 as a requirement can only be taken by a character with full BAB classes from 1st-20th levels, etc.

Milskidasith
2009-08-26, 04:55 PM
Oh my god... combine the last two feats you just listed with a druid wildshaping into a T-rex...

LIGHTNING SPEED FLYING DINOSAURS! :smallcool:

Anyway, all of the feats are pretty absurd, but magic still might have the edge as written. Of course, if the guy is nerfing magic, then we might have a problem.

The Demented One
2009-08-26, 04:57 PM
Oh my god... combine the last two feats you just listed with a druid wildshaping into a T-rex...

LIGHTNING SPEED FLYING DINOSAURS! :smallcool:
This is intentional.

Milskidasith
2009-08-26, 04:58 PM
This is intentional.

Yes, yes it is.

Combine it with the automatic hide and move silently abilities; the T-Rex can never be seen or heard! 0_o

It's awesome!

The Demented One
2009-08-26, 05:09 PM
And a feat inspired by the upcoming Glories of the Most High:

Iron Talon
Once you lay hands upon your enemy, your wrath becomes inescapable.
Prerequisites: Improved Grapple, Legendary Wrestler
Benefit: You automatically succeed on all grapple checks. If another character has an ability that allows them to automatically succeed on effects that oppose this one, then the character with the higher combined Strength and size modifiers prevails. If their is a tie, flip a coin to determine who takes precedence.

By the way, anyone who likes the feats should most definitely check out the game Exalted.

PId6
2009-08-26, 05:29 PM
Okay, I've given prereqs for all of these and fixed a few things (Diamond Mind and Iron Heart ones are a little better). Also added Epic Martial Study.

Epic Maneuver Recovery [Epic]
Prerequisites: Martial Lore 24 ranks, one 9th level maneuver.
Benefit: At the start of your turn once per round, choose an expended maneuver and it's automatically recovered.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times. Each additional time you take it allows you to automatically recover another maneuver at the beginning of each turn.

Epic Boost [Epic]
Prerequisites: Martial Lore 24 ranks, one 9th level maneuver.
Benefit: You may use two boosts in one swift action three times per day.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times. Each additional time you take it adds three more uses per day. The Dual Boost swordsage class feature adds an additional three uses per day if you have it.

Epic Stance [Epic]
Prerequisites: Martial Lore 27 ranks, one 9th level maneuver.
Benefit: You may gain the benefits of two stances at one time.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times. Each additional time you take it, you are able to gain the benefits of another stance at one time. The warblade's Stance Mastery ability stacks with this feat.

Intensify Maneuvers 1-5 [Epic]
Prerequisites: Martial Lore 24 ranks, one 9th level maneuver.
Benefit: Double all beneficial numerical effects of maneuvers and stances of first, second, third, fourth, and fifth levels. If it deals damage, double the damage dealt. If it grants resistance, adds speed, heals HP, grants a penalty, or provides a bonus, double the effect. Only numbers beneficial to you are doubled; those that penalizes you are left as they are.
Special: You may take this multiple times; each time adds 100% of the original value to the numerical bonuses.

Intensify Maneuvers 6-9 [Epic]
Prerequisites: Martial Lore 27 ranks, Intensify Maneuvers 1-5, one 9th level maneuver.
Benefit: As Intensify Maneuvers 1-5, but applicable to all maneuvers of sixth, seventh, eighth, and ninth levels.
Special: You may not take this feat more times than you've taken Intensify Maneuvers 1-5.

Searing Sands [Epic]
Prerequisites: Tumble 24 ranks, one 9th level Desert Wind maneuver.
Benefit: While in a Desert Wind stance, you may ignore the fire resistance and fire immunity of enemies.

Guardian of Steel [Epic]
Prerequisites: Intimidate 24 ranks, one 9th level Devoted Spirit maneuver, Steely Resolve class feature.
Benefit: While in a Devoted Spirit stance, you may double the size of your Steely Resolve delayed damage pool. In addition, whenever an ally within 30 ft of you take damage, you make take the damage instead into your delayed damage pool as long as you have room (or take as much damage as you have room for). Any negative effects of the attack besides damage still apply to the ally struck.

Impassive Mind [Epic]
Prerequisite: Concentration 24 ranks, one 9th level Diamond Mind maneuver.
Benefit: While in a Diamond Mind stance, you gain a +10 bonus to Concentration checks and you can always choose to take 20 on these checks.

Iron Guard [Epic]
Prerequisites: Balance 24 ranks, one 9th level Iron Heart maneuver.
Benefit: While in an Iron Heart stance, you are never considered flat-footed and may use immediate actions even before your first turn. In addition, you can never be flanked.

Counter Strike [Epic]
Prerequisites: Sense Motive 24 ranks, one 9th level Setting Sun maneuver.
Benefit: While in a Setting Sun stance, whenever you successfully use a Setting Sun counter against an enemy, you may immediately initiate a standard action Setting Sun strike against that enemy if they are within range of the strike.

Ephemeral Body [Epic]
Prerequisites: Hide 24 ranks, one 9th level Shadow Hand maneuver.
Benefit: While in a Shadow Hand stance, you may become incorporeal or not as a free action.

Mountain Heights [Epic]
Prerequisites: Balance 24 ranks, one 9th level Stone Dragon maneuver.
Benefit: While in a Stone Dragon stance, you no longer need to touch the earth to use Stone Dragon maneuvers.

Leaping Tiger [Epic]
Prerequisites: Jump 24 ranks, one 9th level Tiger Claw maneuver.
Benefit: While in a Tiger Strike stance, on any turn in which you make a successful Jump check, all your attacks that turn automatically threaten critical hits.

Raven's Flight [Epic]
Prerequisites: Diplomacy 24 ranks, one 9th level White Raven maneuver.
Benefit: While in a White Raven stance, every ally with a lower initiative count than you automatically have their initiative set to 1 below your own.

Epic Martial Study [Epic] [Fighter]
Prerequisites: Martial Study.
Benefit: Choose any discipline in which you already have a maneuver. You gain three maneuvers and one stance of your choice from that discipline, as long as you have the prerequisites for them.

Myou
2009-08-27, 02:45 PM
Ok, I've finally finished compiling a list of feats so far.

I'm very sorry to all of you for each feat I didn't include, the ones I've missed out are ones that I either couldn't figure out a way to make, or felt were too good.

Many, many thanks to you all, and please keep making suggestions! :smallsmile:

Here at last are all of the feats I have so far!

Word .doc: http://www.sendspace.com/file/t2ckoq

.txt document for anyone without Word: http://www.sendspace.com/file/7bixxa


Something like that, yeah. Wizards get an equivalent to extra swift actions in Multispell, but that limits you to only Quickened spells. A feat adding extra swift actions would be helpful to everyone else, if not nearly as much.
Also, adding extra Standard actions as well, but that's something that would need an absurdly high prereq in Dex, level, or both.

On an unrelated note, changes to Deflect Arrows so that a character with Infinite Deflection and Exceptional Deflection so that a character with those feats isn't absolutely immune to ranged attacks would not be amiss, but that's really outside the scope of this thread.

Hmm, I like the idea, although I made my version of Multispell cost a lot (+8 slot level for one extra spell).

Using stats as a limit isn't such a good idea though, because at epic levels you ca take templates and wird races to get huge bonuses to a stat, and pile on enhancements and the like, so anyone aiming for a feat with a high stat requirement can get there really early.

I think perhaps that it may be wise not to allow extra actions on the scale of bonus swift actions or standard actions - it's so easily abused.


And yes, my version allows only one deflection per source, otherwise archery would be completely nullified by that one feat. xD



You make those. You f#cking make those right now. :smallfurious: I can't live my life unless you make these.

Well I made a few, but some don't mesh so well with the D&D system.


PId6, thanks for excellent ideas, I love them! ^_^
Impassive Mind is meant to let you take 20, not 30, right?

PId6
2009-08-27, 03:20 PM
PId6, thanks for excellent ideas, I love them! ^_^
Impassive Mind is meant to let you take 20, not 30, right?
I meant take 30, since take 20 seems a bit weak for epic. IIRC there's a non-epic feat that lets you take 10 on Concentration checks, so this gives you a conditional +10 boost to a skill if it only lets you take 20. It can be better worded as take 20 and gain a +10 bonus so I'll do that. It's still a little weak for epic, but since it's untyped, it can be useful if you're stacking for Greater Insightful Strike or something.

Myou
2009-08-27, 03:32 PM
I meant take 30, since take 20 seems a bit weak for epic. IIRC there's a non-epic feat that lets you take 10 on Concentration checks, so this gives you a conditional +10 boost to a skill if it only lets you take 20. It can be better worded as take 20 and gain a +10 bonus so I'll do that. It's still a little weak for epic, but since it's untyped, it can be useful if you're stacking for Greater Insightful Strike or something.

Are you sure? That seems very powerful to me, since there are those manouvres that let you use Concentration instead of a save. o.o

PId6
2009-08-27, 03:40 PM
A +10 to any skill can be gotten as an item for 10,000 gp, which is pocket change for any epic character. A +20 item would only be 40,000 gp, which is still pretty cheap. Granted, these are typed bonuses, but epic feats should give generally you something you can't achieve using items, like Epic Boost, Epic Stance, and all the rest, or do it better than items. With the saving throw maneuvers, you'll have at least +24 Concentration anyway, so those don't really need much boosting. It's only with very specific builds relying upon Greater Insightful Strike that actually needs every bonus it can get.

Myou
2009-08-27, 03:48 PM
A +10 to any skill can be gotten as an item for 10,000 gp, which is pocket change for any epic character. A +20 item would only be 40,000 gp, which is still pretty cheap. Granted, these are typed bonuses, but epic feats should give generally you something you can't achieve using items, like Epic Boost, Epic Stance, and all the rest, or do it better than items. With the saving throw maneuvers, you'll have at least +24 Concentration anyway, so those don't really need much boosting. It's only with very specific builds relying upon Greater Insightful Strike that actually needs every bonus it can get.

Hmm, well I ban such items myself, so I didn't know that.

So, a +10 bonus, and the ability to take 20? :3

PId6
2009-08-27, 04:00 PM
Like I said, I prefer epic feats to do something special. A lot of the new ones I like, but some of them are still a bit useless. Whether it adds +1, +2, or +3, I'd still rather be dead than caught taking Armor Skin. That's just me though, *shrug*, change it if you prefer.

Myou
2009-08-27, 04:05 PM
Like I said, I prefer epic feats to do something special. A lot of the new ones I like, but some of them are still a bit useless. Whether it adds +1, +2, or +3, I'd still rather be dead than caught taking Armor Skin. That's just me though, *shrug*, change it if you prefer.

Yeah, I agree that they should be good, and thanks. ^^

How would you suggest making Armour Skin better? Maybe have it give partial fortification as well?

PId6
2009-08-27, 04:08 PM
Partial fortification is good. Maybe +25% every time you take it, stacks with the armor special ability. Gives a reason to take it, at any rate.

I'll make a list of a few other ones that could use some adjustments. One moment.

Myou
2009-08-27, 04:11 PM
Partial fortification is good. Maybe +25% every time you take it, stacks with the armor special ability. Gives a reason to take it, at any rate.

I'll make a list of a few other ones that could use some adjustments. One moment.

That sounds good, yeah. ^^

And thank you, I really appreciate your help!

PId6
2009-08-27, 05:01 PM
Sorry this is taking a while; it's long.

Aerial Ace: You should allow those with good maneuverability to take it, since there's not much difference between good and perfect here and good is more realistic for actual flight maneuvering. I feel like this should do something other than just +speed, but not sure what. Possibly raise maneuverability one step as well, but then you'd have to remove the maneuverability requirement entirely to make it useful.

Augmented Alchemy: I love the idea of this feat, but its effects are completely useless. Allowing you to make Alchemist's Fire for 2d6 damage instead of 1d6 isn't worth an epic slot. How about instead lowering the DC to +5 or +10, then letting you raise the DC as many times as you like, adding +100% to the effect each time you add +5 or +10? I'll let you work on the wording. :smalltongue:

Automatic Still/Silent Spell: These are just way too feat intensive to take, not when a normal Still/Silent is only +1 level adjustment and you can get metamagic rods of it. Either combine Still and Silent together or raise it to 1-5 and 6-9.

Bane of Enemies: It's alright, but doesn't seem worth it. Combining it with Death of Enemies shouldn't be too bad.

Chaotic Rage: As above. Maybe raise it to 4d6 instead or something, but it still isn't worth it.

Combat Archery: Because archers want some nice things. Maybe also let you threaten squares with your bow, up to a distance equal to range increment / 5. So a longbow lets you threaten squares up to 20 ft away.

Deafening Song: Deafen isn't normally much of a handicap at all, unless you're fighting enemy bards or something, in which case you'll want to do it to yourself. I do not see the point of this feat.

Dexterous Fortitude and family: Since it's already requiring a nearly useless epic feat, I'd get rid of the per day limit.

Energy Resistance: All of the epic feats that grant slightly higher statistics are extremely bad. At least make this Energy Immunity, with possibly a weaker bonus for sonic. I still wouldn't take it, but at least it's potentially useful.

Epic Dodge: Avoiding one attack from one opponent per round? Say hello to full attack! I guess it's potentially useful though, so maybe just add a side effect. Like make normal Dodge's bonus +4 rather than +1 or something as well at least.

Epic Endurance: I'm not exactly sure what this does. And I'm not sure if this is completely supplemented by Endure Elements.

Epic Fortitude/Reflexes/Will: Totally not worth it. Make these let you not fail on a natural 1 at least.

Epic Inspiration: The bonus to everything except Inspire Greatness is way too low, much like other class feature boosters like Epic Eldritch Blast and Epic Sneak Attack. I would make Inspire Greatness give +1 while other bardic music abilities give +2, and limit how often you can stack these.

Epic Prowess: Make it base attack bonus at least, so it can be used for more iteratives by rogues and swordsages. Also, maybe if you take it three times, you no longer fail attack rolls on natural 1s.

Epic Reputation: This should at least give a Leadership bonus, and even then, it's still worthless. With an idea like reputation, this needs some kind of less tangible benefit than direct stat boosts, but I'm not sure what.

Epic Skill Focus: Let you take 10 with the skill.

Epic Speed: With that proviso, this feat is worthless for anyone but monks. A Haste effect grants the exact same bonus, and more, for a much lower price. Getting rid of the weird stacking rule would be a start, and it might even need more. Maybe just merge this with the Haste one, so that taking that feat multiple times adds an additional +30 to speed, +1 to attack, AC, and Reflex each time you take it.

Epic Spell Focus: No use whatsoever. At least make it rise with character level, and maybe grant some other kind of bonus, like a CL boost for spells of that school.

Epic Spell Penetration: If this granted +10 to SR checks, I still wouldn't take it. Maybe in a core only game, but when you have things like True Casting and Assay Spell Resistance, this is not so great. And even if you don't, a caster is perfectly viable using just SR: No spells in such situations. Maybe make it +4 instead, and grant that bonus to CL checks to dispel.

Epic Toughness: If you're in a level 21-29 game, Improved Toughness grants nearly as much as this. If you're in a level 30+ game, Improved Toughness grants as much or more. Maybe combine this with DR, or make it so that you can no longer die from massive damage. Otherwise this is pretty pointless.

Epic Weapon Focus/Weapon Specialization: If you're a level 21+ fighter, you may as well take these I guess. Still bad, but oh well, you're a fighter, you're used to it.

Oh wow, I'm not even halfway through yet. Give me some time with this and I'll do some more later.

The Tygre
2009-08-27, 05:13 PM
W-wow. You actually made them. And they're -awesome-.

Umm...

Can I take the rope off from my neck now?

The Demented One
2009-08-27, 05:15 PM
W-wow. You actually made them. And they're -awesome-.

Umm...

Can I take the rope off from my neck now?
What immortal hand or eye dare frame thy fearful symmetry? MINE!

PId6
2009-08-27, 06:56 PM
Shattering Strike - There's no need to make this incur attacks of opportunity. Monks need something going for them.

Great Smite - How about letting you expend a single smite attempt as a free action to smite on every attack you make this round? Throw the paladin a bone at least.

Aligned Strike - Same with Chaotic Rage. The bonus is mediocre at best, though the coverage is a bit nicer.

Improved Aura of Courage - Seriously, just make it immunity to fear.

Improved Favored Enemy - Make it +4.

Improved Ki Strike - Just make it ignore all DR. It's the monk, for crying out loud.

Improved Dark/Low-Light Vision - Wouldn't hurt to merge these. Improved Low-Light Vision is almost completely useless on its own.

Improved Manyshot - Characters normally don't get Bab above 20th level, so this only benefits monsters with RHD. Not sure if this was what you intended.

Improved Precision - Raise this to 3d6. Seriously, it's way too weak.

Improved Spell Resistance - Add +5 or even +10.

Improved Ability - Even Ability Focus gives +2. Make this require Ability Focus and add +4 each time you take it, with a limit on how often you can take it.

Improved Whirlwind Attack - Add another feat that lets you take a full-round action to Whirlwind with full-attacks against all enemies within reach. That might actually make Whirlwind Attack worth taking.

Incite Rage - It's workable, but this should offer something more than the spell. How about just giving all of your benefits of raging to your allies, and have them keep raging as long as you rage, rather than give a set bonus?

Unlimited Deflection - Pretty useless now with the nerf. May as well merge this with Exceptional Deflection or something.

Intuitive Trapfinding - Wait, why do you have this and Trap Sense?

Keen Strike - Eh, it's monk. And the requirements are pretty hefty. May as well have 15-20.

Legendary Climber - Spider Climb really makes this obsolete, not to mention Fly. How about at least giving you a climb speed, and maybe some benefits to other things while climbing?

Legendary Leaper - You can get Leaping Dragon Stance at 5th level, which totally outshines this feat. Make it so that you're always considered running for jumps, and maybe even let you Jump freely as a swift action.

Legendary Rider - This seriously need some other benefits. Perhaps add your ranks in Ride to your mount's AC and saves, to make it harder to kill. Then all you have to do is avoid getting killed yourself.

Legendary Tracker - Negated by a 1st level spell, Pass Without Trace. How about letting you track those that don't leave tracks at a +10 DC penalty, like those with Trackless Step or Pass Without Trace?

Legendary Wrestler - Also allow you to grapple enemies that normally automatically succeed on grapple checks (Freedom of Movement) at a -10 penalty.

Master of Devices - Let you substitute your own stats to calculate CL and saves as well, or else most charged items are useless.

Multiweapon Rend - Why is this epic? Two-Weapon Rend isn't epic (and is pretty bad).

Overwhelming Critical - How about just raising the critical multiplier by 2? The extra damage is fairly negligible at epic levels.

Penetrate Damage Reduction - Toss archers and monks a bone and make it apply to everything, not just melee weapons.

Perfect Health - Eh, just make it apply to all poisons and diseases. That's hardly overpowered, especially when you have to spend on a bad prereq for it.

Polymath - Also treat yourself as having ranks in all untrained skills equal to half character level.

Energy Aura - Typo with ore. Also, turning/rebuking isn't that useful anyway (actual turning/rebuking; not just spending turn attempts on DMM), no need to nerf it that much with -10 effective level.

And, still not done.

The Tygre
2009-08-27, 09:44 PM
What immortal hand or eye dare frame thy fearful symmetry? MINE!

Yes, Dark Master...

I'm not being your Lunar, though. I'm just saying that right now. Gettin' out there on the board, man.

PId6
2009-08-28, 01:29 AM
Ranged Inspiration - I can see this as a regular feat, but this is epic. I mean, it's a widen ability, if that's going to be epic, you may as well have it grant x10 the normal size.

Rapid Inspiration - Wait, I thought most bardic music were already standard action? And Song of the White Raven already makes bardic music a swift action, this may as well make it a free action.

Self Concealment - There's a lot of other ways to get easy concealment, like Child of Shadow stance, Cloak of Displacement, or just casting Blur or Displacement, so 10% is a bit underwhelming. I would make this 25% miss chance per time you take it instead.

Spectral Strike - Um, Ghost Touch is a +1 enhancement, and there's a cheap magic item in the MIC that also grants this, and completely removes the miss chance entirely. Just removing the miss chance entirely is worth the price of a normal feat; this is not suitable for epic. This needs to just grant Ghost Touch, and also add some other ghostbusting effects to be worth it.

Spellcasting Harrier - This does pretty much the exact same thing as Mage Slayer but costs a whole lot more. This needs to do something that actually lets you harry spellcasters.

Spontaneous Domain Access - Domain Spontaneity does the exact same thing, isn't epic, and only requires you to spend a single Turn Undead attempt to use it. If this is going to be used at all, just make it apply to every domain you have. It's still pretty weak but it does something at least.

Spontaneous Spell - Making it apply to a single spell makes it pretty much useless. If you think that spell would be useful, you'd probably have prepared it by now. I could see this as useful non-epic, but epic-wise? Not at all. Maybe have it apply to all spells of certain spell levels instead, like 1-3, 4-6, 7-9. Having to spend three epic feats to turn yourself into a sorcerer isn't that broken.

Superior Initiative - Also let you take 10 on initiative checks.

Two Weapon Rend - This is not an epic feat. I fail to see the difference between this feat and the one in PHB2, besides the fact that the PHB2 one uses 1d6 while this uses the damage of the smaller weapon, which is likely worse. In fact, Two-Weapon Rend is fairly weak even for a regular feat.

Widen Aura - Again, widen abilities have no real use beyond a few specific situations, so if this is going to be an epic feat, you may as well make it x10.

Energy Strike - This is fairly useless. By your level, it's very very easy to get immunity to every element, and 2d6 damage isn't very impressive at all. Maybe have this grant some kind of side effect based on the element chosen.

Epic Blind-Fight - Grant Blindsight 30 ft to make this more worth it.

Epic Cleave - Don't make the player guess which one he'll kill. Just make him decide whether to use an Epic Cleave whenever he drops an enemy, and limit it to 1/round.

Epic Weapon Finesse - This totally should have been in Weapon Finesse itself. And Shadow Blade does the same thing. This has wider application, but still, it's really weak.

Flexible - 1/day 10 round swap two ability scores? I'm not sure how this is actually useful.

Near Miss - This is the equivalent of a conditional +2 to AC, but worse.

Perception - It's pretty bad. Just make it you cannot be flanked.

Zero-Range - Power Critical gives you an unconditional +4 to critical confirmations. This gives you a very very conditional +5 as an epic feat. Every attack made against adjacent enemies become critical hits would be better.

Man, I'm still not done. More tomorrow.

Myou
2009-08-28, 05:23 AM
Wow, you've been busy! :smalleek:

Thank you! Now to see what you actually had to say....

Replies bolded save endless quoting.


Sorry this is taking a while; it's long. Hey, no need to say sorry, you're doing me a big favour!

Aerial Ace: You should allow those with good maneuverability to take it, since there's not much difference between good and perfect here and good is more realistic for actual flight maneuvering. I feel like this should do something other than just +speed, but not sure what. Possibly raise maneuverability one step as well, but then you'd have to remove the maneuverability requirement entirely to make it useful.

I think you're right, maybe the extra speed and the ability to move without incurring any AoOs while airbourne? There's already a feat to improve manouvreability though, so I think we should avoid making that redundant.

Augmented Alchemy: I love the idea of this feat, but its effects are completely useless. Allowing you to make Alchemist's Fire for 2d6 damage instead of 1d6 isn't worth an epic slot. How about instead lowering the DC to +5 or +10, then letting you raise the DC as many times as you like, adding +100% to the effect each time you add +5 or +10? I'll let you work on the wording. :smalltongue:

Hmmm, that sounds good! Done. :smallsmile:

Automatic Still/Silent Spell: These are just way too feat intensive to take, not when a normal Still/Silent is only +1 level adjustment and you can get metamagic rods of it. Either combine Still and Silent together or raise it to 1-5 and 6-9.

Bane of Enemies: It's alright, but doesn't seem worth it. Combining it with Death of Enemies shouldn't be too bad.

Good idea! Done.

Chaotic Rage: As above. Maybe raise it to 4d6 instead or something, but it still isn't worth it.

What if I give it the Death of Enemies effect too?

Combat Archery: Because archers want some nice things. Maybe also let you threaten squares with your bow, up to a distance equal to range increment / 5. So a longbow lets you threaten squares up to 20 ft away.

Hmmm, well... archery is underpowered.... Are you sure that wouldn't be too powerful though?

Deafening Song: Deafen isn't normally much of a handicap at all, unless you're fighting enemy bards or something, in which case you'll want to do it to yourself. I do not see the point of this feat.

Nor do I, but hey, WotC thought it was worthwhile. But then that may not be a great endorsement.... :smalltongue:
Ok, it's gone.

Dexterous Fortitude and family: Since it's already requiring a nearly useless epic feat, I'd get rid of the per day limit.

But that would let characters pump up only one save and use that for everything. :smalleek:
Maybe just drop the requirement?

Energy Resistance: All of the epic feats that grant slightly higher statistics are extremely bad. At least make this Energy Immunity, with possibly a weaker bonus for sonic. I still wouldn't take it, but at least it's potentially useful.

Ok! I thought immunity would be a bit much, but you're right - there's a spell to give it anyway. Done.

Epic Dodge: Avoiding one attack from one opponent per round? Say hello to full attack! I guess it's potentially useful though, so maybe just add a side effect. Like make normal Dodge's bonus +4 rather than +1 or something as well at least.

Ahhh, I like it! Done!

Epic Endurance: I'm not exactly sure what this does. And I'm not sure if this is completely supplemented by Endure Elements.

Well, this is another WotC effort, as I understand it, it gives +20 to checks to do things like run all day, stuff like that. I don't think it has any overlap with Endure Elements, unless I missed something.

Epic Fortitude/Reflexes/Will: Totally not worth it. Make these let you not fail on a natural 1 at least.

Ohhh, great idea! Done.

Epic Inspiration: The bonus to everything except Inspire Greatness is way too low, much like other class feature boosters like Epic Eldritch Blast and Epic Sneak Attack. I would make Inspire Greatness give +1 while other bardic music abilities give +2, and limit how often you can stack these.

Limit perhaps to one taking of the feat per ten levels? Or limit another way?

Epic Prowess: Make it base attack bonus at least, so it can be used for more iteratives by rogues and swordsages. Also, maybe if you take it three times, you no longer fail attack rolls on natural 1s.

Actually, I'm not advancing iteratives beyond four attacks, and under the epic rules I'm making BAB keeps increasing naurally at +1/2 per level, so rougues still get to a full BAB eventually. But perhaps this should let you get there faster? What do you think?

Epic Reputation: This should at least give a Leadership bonus, and even then, it's still worthless. With an idea like reputation, this needs some kind of less tangible benefit than direct stat boosts, but I'm not sure what.

What if it lets you get 10% off all purchases if you make a cha check, or somethingl like that?

Epic Skill Focus: Let you take 10 with the skill.

Ahh, of course! Done. Also, it now lets you take 20 when you would otherwise be allowed to take 10.

Epic Speed: With that proviso, this feat is worthless for anyone but monks. A Haste effect grants the exact same bonus, and more, for a much lower price. Getting rid of the weird stacking rule would be a start, and it might even need more. Maybe just merge this with the Haste one, so that taking that feat multiple times adds an additional +30 to speed, +1 to attack, AC, and Reflex each time you take it.

What if I just dropped the proviso?

Epic Spell Focus: No use whatsoever. At least make it rise with character level, and maybe grant some other kind of bonus, like a CL boost for spells of that school.

I'm worried about making it rise with level though, that would be a pretty high bonus at really high levels. :smalleek:
What if I just let them take the feat multiple times, and it gave +1 caster level too?

Epic Spell Penetration: If this granted +10 to SR checks, I still wouldn't take it. Maybe in a core only game, but when you have things like True Casting and Assay Spell Resistance, this is not so great. And even if you don't, a caster is perfectly viable using just SR: No spells in such situations. Maybe make it +4 instead, and grant that bonus to CL checks to dispel.

How about +6? To make it a total of +10 with the other feats?

Epic Toughness: If you're in a level 21-29 game, Improved Toughness grants nearly as much as this. If you're in a level 30+ game, Improved Toughness grants as much or more. Maybe combine this with DR, or make it so that you can no longer die from massive damage. Otherwise this is pretty pointless.

Hmm, good idea, no massive damage, done!

Epic Weapon Focus/Weapon Specialization: If you're a level 21+ fighter, you may as well take these I guess. Still bad, but oh well, you're a fighter, you're used to it.

Well, I thought they were decent. ^^;

Oh wow, I'm not even halfway through yet. Give me some time with this and I'll do some more later.

Thank you! :smallsmile:


Shattering Strike - There's no need to make this incur attacks of opportunity. Monks need something going for them.

Ok! Done. ^^

Great Smite - How about letting you expend a single smite attempt as a free action to smite on every attack you make this round? Throw the paladin a bone at least.

That sounds good, but are you sure that's not too powerful? I just want to be sure.

Aligned Strike - Same with Chaotic Rage. The bonus is mediocre at best, though the coverage is a bit nicer.

Same fix as I sugested for chaotic rage perhaps?

Improved Aura of Courage - Seriously, just make it immunity to fear.

Done! Why didn't I think of that?

Improved Favored Enemy - Make it +4.

Done! But should I now limit it to once every ten levels to stop too much stacking?

Improved Ki Strike - Just make it ignore all DR. It's the monk, for crying out loud.

Good idea! Done!

Improved Dark/Low-Light Vision - Wouldn't hurt to merge these. Improved Low-Light Vision is almost completely useless on its own.

Done.

Improved Manyshot - Characters normally don't get Bab above 20th level, so this only benefits monsters with RHD. Not sure if this was what you intended.

Well, I think WotC intended for it to include the epic BAB bonuses, but in my setup those are actual BAB increases, so it should work, right?

Improved Precision - Raise this to 3d6. Seriously, it's way too weak.

Are you sure 2d6 isn't enough? If you're certain then I'll use 3d6. 1d6 really is too low though, you're right.

Improved Spell Resistance - Add +5 or even +10.

Ok, I added +5. I wasn't happy about it at first, but you are right, and it's not like it grants spell immunity. ^^

Improved Ability - Even Ability Focus gives +2. Make this require Ability Focus and add +4 each time you take it, with a limit on how often you can take it.

Done!

Improved Whirlwind Attack - Add another feat that lets you take a full-round action to Whirlwind with full-attacks against all enemies within reach. That might actually make Whirlwind Attack worth taking.

Done. Reaping Whirlwind. How is it?

Incite Rage - It's workable, but this should offer something more than the spell. How about just giving all of your benefits of raging to your allies, and have them keep raging as long as you rage, rather than give a set bonus?

Good idea! Done!

Unlimited Deflection - Pretty useless now with the nerf. May as well merge this with Exceptional Deflection or something.

Done! That was a great idea - I didn't like how weak it was, but it was broken as WotC wrote it.

Intuitive Trapfinding - Wait, why do you have this and Trap Sense?

Oops! Removed Trap Sense and made Intuitive Trapfinding 10ft.

Keen Strike - Eh, it's monk. And the requirements are pretty hefty. May as well have 15-20.

Heh, I gave it that, the chickened out. Ok, 15-20 it is. Done.

Legendary Climber - Spider Climb really makes this obsolete, not to mention Fly. How about at least giving you a climb speed, and maybe some benefits to other things while climbing?

Good idea! How about it gives you Spider Climb and a 60ft climb speed? Anything else that ight help? Some sort of CLimb-By Attack?

Legendary Leaper - You can get Leaping Dragon Stance at 5th level, which totally outshines this feat. Make it so that you're always considered running for jumps, and maybe even let you Jump freely as a swift action.

Ok, done.

Legendary Rider - This seriously need some other benefits. Perhaps add your ranks in Ride to your mount's AC and saves, to make it harder to kill. Then all you have to do is avoid getting killed yourself.

Oooh, excellent! But how about half rather than the whole lot? adding 30+ to saves and AC seems a little over the top.

Legendary Tracker - Negated by a 1st level spell, Pass Without Trace. How about letting you track those that don't leave tracks at a +10 DC penalty, like those with Trackless Step or Pass Without Trace?

Perfect! Done. But is +20 rather than +10 ok?

Legendary Wrestler - Also allow you to grapple enemies that normally automatically succeed on grapple checks (Freedom of Movement) at a -10 penalty.

There's already a feat for that, should they be merged?

Master of Devices - Let you substitute your own stats to calculate CL and saves as well, or else most charged items are useless.

Good idea! Done.

Multiweapon Rend - Why is this epic? Two-Weapon Rend isn't epic (and is pretty bad).

Well, it was a WotC one. Maybe make it deal more damage? Two-Weapon Rend is epic according to the SRD though.

Overwhelming Critical - How about just raising the critical multiplier by 2? The extra damage is fairly negligible at epic levels.

Would that stack with the other effects that raise the multiplier?

Penetrate Damage Reduction - Toss archers and monks a bone and make it apply to everything, not just melee weapons.

Ok! Monks were already covered, but you're right about archers. Done.

Perfect Health - Eh, just make it apply to all poisons and diseases. That's hardly overpowered, especially when you have to spend on a bad prereq for it.

I was worried that it might be unfair to anyone who actually uses poison, but you're right, and it is [Epic]. Done

Polymath - Also treat yourself as having ranks in all untrained skills equal to half character level.

Wow, isn't that a bit too good? :smalleek:

Energy Aura - Typo with ore. Also, turning/rebuking isn't that useful anyway (actual turning/rebuking; not just spending turn attempts on DMM), no need to nerf it that much with -10 effective level.

I had to use the search function to actally see the typo, thanks. xD
So, no -10 effective level? Done.

And, still not done.

Sadly I have to stop here for a few hours, but I'll be back as soon as I can to go through the rest of your comments and then post a revised list. And thank you again!

Myou
2009-08-28, 07:41 AM
Continuation of my replies.


Ranged Inspiration - I can see this as a regular feat, but this is epic. I mean, it's a widen ability, if that's going to be epic, you may as well have it grant x10 the normal size.

Done.

Rapid Inspiration - Wait, I thought most bardic music were already standard action? And Song of the White Raven already makes bardic music a swift action, this may as well make it a free action.

Well, WotC clearly disagreed. xD
But it doesn't seem overpowered, so I'll do that anyway. Done.

Self Concealment - There's a lot of other ways to get easy concealment, like Child of Shadow stance, Cloak of Displacement, or just casting Blur or Displacement, so 10% is a bit underwhelming. I would make this 25% miss chance per time you take it instead.

Done!

Spectral Strike - Um, Ghost Touch is a +1 enhancement, and there's a cheap magic item in the MIC that also grants this, and completely removes the miss chance entirely. Just removing the miss chance entirely is worth the price of a normal feat; this is not suitable for epic. This needs to just grant Ghost Touch, and also add some other ghostbusting effects to be worth it.

Hmmm, what would you suggest? Some sort of bonus damage against incorporial creatures?

Spellcasting Harrier - This does pretty much the exact same thing as Mage Slayer but costs a whole lot more. This needs to do something that actually lets you harry spellcasters.

Good old WotC, I hould have known not to trust their judgement. I'll just drop this in favour of Mage Slayer.

Spontaneous Domain Access - Domain Spontaneity does the exact same thing, isn't epic, and only requires you to spend a single Turn Undead attempt to use it. If this is going to be used at all, just make it apply to every domain you have. It's still pretty weak but it does something at least.

Done. Thanks again to WotC for their excellent work on their epic rules. :smallyuk:

Spontaneous Spell - Making it apply to a single spell makes it pretty much useless. If you think that spell would be useful, you'd probably have prepared it by now. I could see this as useful non-epic, but epic-wise? Not at all. Maybe have it apply to all spells of certain spell levels instead, like 1-3, 4-6, 7-9. Having to spend three epic feats to turn yourself into a sorcerer isn't that broken.

Hmmm, I'm not sure I want to let wizards do that, I think I'll just remove this feat, unless anyone has any other ideas about what to do with it.

Superior Initiative - Also let you take 10 on initiative checks.

Done.

Two Weapon Rend - This is not an epic feat. I fail to see the difference between this feat and the one in PHB2, besides the fact that the PHB2 one uses 1d6 while this uses the damage of the smaller weapon, which is likely worse. In fact, Two-Weapon Rend is fairly weak even for a regular feat.

Again, WotC thought it was epic. :smallsigh:
So, what do you think we should do with it to make it not worthless? :smallsmile:

Widen Aura - Again, widen abilities have no real use beyond a few specific situations, so if this is going to be an epic feat, you may as well make it x10.

Done.

Energy Strike - This is fairly useless. By your level, it's very very easy to get immunity to every element, and 2d6 damage isn't very impressive at all. Maybe have this grant some kind of side effect based on the element chosen.

Ok, I'll think about what effects. Any suggestions are more than welcome.

Epic Blind-Fight - Grant Blindsight 30 ft to make this more worth it.

Done.

Epic Cleave - Don't make the player guess which one he'll kill. Just make him decide whether to use an Epic Cleave whenever he drops an enemy, and limit it to 1/round.

Done! Good idea!

Epic Weapon Finesse - This totally should have been in Weapon Finesse itself. And Shadow Blade does the same thing. This has wider application, but still, it's really weak.

Maybe it lets you apply Weapon Finesse to all kinds of weapon too?

Flexible - 1/day 10 round swap two ability scores? I'm not sure how this is actually useful.

Well, the idea is that it lets you become great at somethig for a shot time - you could swap your insane Str for really high Wis to find a hidden foe, or swap your Cha for Str to make your Smite that much more powerful.

Near Miss - This is the equivalent of a conditional +2 to AC, but worse.

You're right, what was I thinking? :smallyuk:
What if I made it force the foe to reroll 20s instead?

Perception - It's pretty bad. Just make it you cannot be flanked.

Done.

Zero-Range - Power Critical gives you an unconditional +4 to critical confirmations. This gives you a very very conditional +5 as an epic feat. Every attack made against adjacent enemies become critical hits would be better.

What about if they automatically threaten, and give +4 to confirm, stacking with Power Critical?

Man, I'm still not done. More tomorrow.

Thanks!

Myou
2009-08-28, 08:09 AM
Ok, revised list so far! http://www.sendspace.com/file/wezpup

PId6
2009-08-28, 11:21 PM
Aerial Ace: I think you're right, maybe the extra speed and the ability to move without incurring any AoOs while airbourne? There's already a feat to improve manouvreability though, so I think we should avoid making that redundant.

Completely ignore AoOs while airborne is a little strong. Maybe just +10 to Tumble checks while flying each time you take it.

Automatic Still/Silent Spell: These are just way too feat intensive to take, not when a normal Still/Silent is only +1 level adjustment and you can get metamagic rods of it. Either combine Still and Silent together or raise it to 1-5 and 6-9.

I think you missed this one. :smallwink:

Chaotic Rage: What if I give it the Death of Enemies effect too?

That's a good idea.

Combat Archery: Hmmm, well... archery is underpowered.... Are you sure that wouldn't be too powerful though?

It won't be, at least, not really. Individual arrows don't really do all that much damage compared to melee, since you don't get much Str bonus on them. That means you need a lot of hits to do much damage at all. You also can't trip at range so pretty much the only thing you can do with those AoOs is deal weak damage. It makes archers better against casters, but that's hardly a problem. :smallbiggrin:

Dexterous Fortitude and family: But that would let characters pump up only one save and use that for everything.
Maybe just drop the requirement?

Thing you have to remember is that epic feats are the most precious resources you have. Yes, if you take these, you can ignore every save but one, but if you're spending your epic feats taking these, that's feats you're not spending on better metamagic or better class features and such. So if you do spend three epic feats for all of these, then you deserve to be able to dump every save but one, because you'll be much weaker in every other regard compared to your peers.

Epic Endurance: Well, this is another WotC effort, as I understand it, it gives +20 to checks to do things like run all day, stuff like that. I don't think it has any overlap with Endure Elements, unless I missed something.

How about you cannot be fatigued or exhausted?

Epic Inspiration: Limit perhaps to one taking of the feat per ten levels? Or limit another way?

Yeah, it's probably a good idea to do this with most stackable epic feats, or at least the good ones anyway. Part of the problem with the original system was that you have no real reason not to take the same good feats over and over and just ignore the other ones.

Epic Prowess: Actually, I'm not advancing iteratives beyond four attacks, and under the epic rules I'm making BAB keeps increasing naurally at +1/2 per level, so rougues still get to a full BAB eventually. But perhaps this should let you get there faster? What do you think?

Just make it you get +1 to attack and you no longer fail attack rolls on natural 1s then.

Epic Reputation: What if it lets you get 10% off all purchases if you make a cha check, or somethingl like that?

I guess that could work.

Epic Speed: What if I just dropped the proviso?

Then give some other minor benefit like Aerial Ace. Or make this apply to all speeds. So take Aerial Ace if you want to exclusively help your fly speed (and gain a minor benefit alongside that), or take Epic Speed if you want to raise all of your speeds (and gain no other benefit).

Epic Spell Focus: I'm worried about making it rise with level though, that would be a pretty high bonus at really high levels.
What if I just let them take the feat multiple times, and it gave +1 caster level too?

I think level 30 or possibly even 40 should be the highest you should care about. Any higher, and the idea of balance becomes so laughable as to have even less meaning than it does at "normal" epic. Spells that allow saving throws are generally fairly useless at epic levels anyway; you're better off just annihilating them with an epic-damage spell or send them a no-save-just-lose, since saves rise a lot faster than spell DCs can. A +2 or +3 to saves for one school isn't that powerful compared to what else casters can do, if you don't allow it to stack. Epic feats are just too valuable a resource to spend over and over on a static-value booster, when you can take things that have long term benefits no matter what level you are (like metamagic).

Epic Spell Penetration: How about +6? To make it a total of +10 with the other feats?

That works. I don't see this being taken much either way, but it'll be an option at least.

Epic Weapon Focus/Weapon Specialization: Well, I thought they were decent. ^^;

It's because they're static abilities, and scaling ones are always better. It's decent though, as static abilities go.

Great Smite - That sounds good, but are you sure that's not too powerful? I just want to be sure.

For a paladin? Nope, not at all. If you're getting only 5 smites a day, they may as well be useful and be used on more than jut one attack.

Aligned Strike - Same fix as I sugested for chaotic rage perhaps?

That works.

Improved Favored Enemy - Done! But should I now limit it to once every ten levels to stop too much stacking?

Yeah, that's a good idea with most of the class feature boosters.

Improved Manyshot - Well, I think WotC intended for it to include the epic BAB bonuses, but in my setup those are actual BAB increases, so it should work, right?

Ah, that should be fine then.

Improved Precision - Are you sure 2d6 isn't enough? If you're certain then I'll use 3d6. 1d6 really is too low though, you're right.

If you're only taking it once per 10 levels, it's not too strong at all. Monster HP scales really fast at epic, and rogues barely do enough damage as is, to say nothing of scout or ninja. It's only too strong if you can keep taking it, but since it's limited per 10 levels, it's fine.

Improved Whirlwind Attack - Done. Reaping Whirlwind. How is it?

There's no need for the movement clause. Normally, you wouldn't be able to move on such a turn anyway since it's a full-round action, and there's no reason to prevent you from doing it if you manage to find some way to move and full-round action.

Legendary Climber - Good idea! How about it gives you Spider Climb and a 60ft climb speed? Anything else that ight help? Some sort of CLimb-By Attack?

That's a good idea. Should work.

Legendary Rider - Oooh, excellent! But how about half rather than the whole lot? adding 30+ to saves and AC seems a little over the top.

Half is fine too. It's not too important though since the point is to make enemies target you instead of your mount. This just makes the mount harder to kill; you've no such protection, however, so they just have to knock you down to finish your mount.

Legendary Tracker - Perfect! Done. But is +20 rather than +10 ok?

That's fine.

Legendary Wrestler - There's already a feat for that, should they be merged?

Just remove this and keep Iron Talon. Then make Epic Grapple raise your effective size category by 2, and allow it to be taken once per 10 levels. That should fulfill any grapple modifier needs. Iron Talon has somewhat confusing wording though.

Overwhelming Critical - Would that stack with the other effects that raise the multiplier?

Yeah, allowing it to stack as high as you want shouldn't be too bad since Improved Critical no longer stacks with Keen. Just make this takeable once per 10 levels and remove Dolorous Stroke.

Perfect Health - I was worried that it might be unfair to anyone who actually uses poison, but you're right, and it is [Epic]. Done

Nobody really bothers with poisons and diseases anyway at this level since it's way too easy to get immunity to them, even without this.

Polymath - Wow, isn't that a bit too good?

Not really. Right now it's just Jack of All Trades mixed with a Tongues spell. This just makes you a slightly better Jack of All Trades. You can do anything competently but nothing well, since this doesn't apply if you put ranks into a skill. Anyone who bothers specializing in the skill will have twice the ranks that you have in it because of this. I don't really see how this can become too powerful. You should make it require Jack of All Trades as a prerequisite though.

Spectral Strike - Hmmm, what would you suggest? Some sort of bonus damage against incorporial creatures?

Make it so that your armor, natural armor, and shield ACs apply to attacks from incorporeal enemies as well. Might need to change the name though.

Spontaneous Spell - Hmmm, I'm not sure I want to let wizards do that, I think I'll just remove this feat, unless anyone has any other ideas about what to do with it.

Make it apply to every spell slot of a level equal to or below half your maximum spell level. So a wizard with 10th level spells can spontaneously cast from 5th level slots. That seems pretty balanced.

Two Weapon Rend - Again, WotC thought it was epic.
So, what do you think we should do with it to make it not worthless?

Since the ELH is 3.0 material, I think they just realized a lot of those weren't good epic so they made nonepic versions of them. Make it require the PHB2 Two-Weapon Rend, then let you perform a rend each time you hit with one weapon after another, without a 1/round limit.

Energy Strike - Ok, I'll think about what effects. Any suggestions are more than welcome.

The Orb spells have some effects, but save-or-daze might be too strong when you make multiple attacks per round. I'm not sure, actually. I suppose you can just raise them to 5d6.

Epic Weapon Finesse - Maybe it lets you apply Weapon Finesse to all kinds of weapon too?

Hmm, that's a good idea. Allow Weapon Finesse with all one-handed weapons.

Flexible - Well, the idea is that it lets you become great at somethig for a shot time - you could swap your insane Str for really high Wis to find a hidden foe, or swap your Cha for Str to make your Smite that much more powerful.

That seems like it might make a decent regular feat, but isn't really epic material, since it has such limited usage. Maybe just make it capped at rounds/day equal to character level to make it a little more useful.

Near Miss - You're right, what was I thinking?
What if I made it force the foe to reroll 20s instead?

Oh, good idea. Just make natural 20s not auto-hit for enemies and that should be enough.

Zero-Range - What about if they automatically threaten, and give +4 to confirm, stacking with Power Critical?

That works fine.
I'm a little stumped for time both today and tomorrow, so I'll get back to this when I can find a little more free time. Sorry about making you wait so much.

A few more things before I'm done for the night:

I'm wondering, since Increased Spell Capacity doesn't seem to exist, how do spellcasters get 10th level and higher spells?

Bonus Domain - A single extra domain is a little weak, since you can PrC dip for more domains and you're not getting all that much for this, compared to other options. Maybe give two domains or give another set of domain slots (but that might be a little strong).

Intensify Maneuvers - I would keep this at 1-5 and 6-9, since it's just too feat intensive to be worth it if you have to take three feats to intensify everything. Just make it so that you can only take each one once per 10 levels to prevent overstacking.

Myou
2009-08-29, 04:57 AM
Aerial Ace: Completely ignore AoOs while airborne is a little strong. Maybe just +10 to Tumble checks while flying each time you take it.

Hmmm, you're right, but isn't it pretty easy to hit the Tumble DC to avoid attacks even without any bonus? What if it gives you a big bonus against being tripped or grappledwhile airbourne instead?

Automatic Still/Silent Spell: These are just way too feat intensive to take, not when a normal Still/Silent is only +1 level adjustment and you can get metamagic rods of it. Either combine Still and Silent together or raise it to 1-5 and 6-9.

I think you missed this one. :smallwink:

Oops! :smallredface:

I think you're right, but give that it takes an epic feat a well as a non-epic one, I think I'll let them apply to all 0-9th level spells. Done. ^^

Chaotic Rage: That's a good idea.

Great! Done.

Combat Archery: It won't be, at least, not really. Individual arrows don't really do all that much damage compared to melee, since you don't get much Str bonus on them. That means you need a lot of hits to do much damage at all. You also can't trip at range so pretty much the only thing you can do with those AoOs is deal weak damage. It makes archers better against casters, but that's hardly a problem. :smallbiggrin:

Ok then! Done!

Dexterous Fortitude and family: Thing you have to remember is that epic feats are the most precious resources you have. Yes, if you take these, you can ignore every save but one, but if you're spending your epic feats taking these, that's feats you're not spending on better metamagic or better class features and such. So if you do spend three epic feats for all of these, then you deserve to be able to dump every save but one, because you'll be much weaker in every other regard compared to your peers.

Well, you know it's only 2 feats you have to take, right? It really does seem too good to me if you can do it all day, because, well, every fighter will take Fortified Will, stuff like that, so no-one would ever have a bad save.

Epic Endurance: How about you cannot be fatigued or exhausted?

Perfect. Done. ^^

Epic Inspiration: Yeah, it's probably a good idea to do this with most stackable epic feats, or at least the good ones anyway. Part of the problem with the original system was that you have no real reason not to take the same good feats over and over and just ignore the other ones.

Ok, done!

Epic Prowess: Just make it you get +1 to attack and you no longer fail attack rolls on natural 1s then.

Ok! Done.

Epic Reputation: I guess that could work.

Ok, I've done that, but if you have any better ideas let me know, because I'm not really happy with the feat. xD

Epic Speed: Then give some other minor benefit like Aerial Ace. Or make this apply to all speeds. So take Aerial Ace if you want to exclusively help your fly speed (and gain a minor benefit alongside that), or take Epic Speed if you want to raise all of your speeds (and gain no other benefit).

Done.

Epic Spell Focus: I think level 30 or possibly even 40 should be the highest you should care about. Any higher, and the idea of balance becomes so laughable as to have even less meaning than it does at "normal" epic. Spells that allow saving throws are generally fairly useless at epic levels anyway; you're better off just annihilating them with an epic-damage spell or send them a no-save-just-lose, since saves rise a lot faster than spell DCs can. A +2 or +3 to saves for one school isn't that powerful compared to what else casters can do, if you don't allow it to stack. Epic feats are just too valuable a resource to spend over and over on a static-value booster, when you can take things that have long term benefits no matter what level you are (like metamagic).

Hmmmm.... So, add +1 for every twenty levels? Every ten levels?

Epic Spell Penetration: That works. I don't see this being taken much either way, but it'll be an option at least.

Done. Taking it gives you a total of +10 to beat SR and dispel checks.

Epic Weapon Focus/Weapon Specialization: It's because they're static abilities, and scaling ones are always better. It's decent though, as static abilities go.

What if I make the bonuses the same, but per 20 character levels?

Great Smite: For a paladin? Nope, not at all. If you're getting only 5 smites a day, they may as well be useful and be used on more than jut one attack.

Heh, ok then! Done.

Aligned Strike: That works.

Super! Done.

Improved Favored Enemy: Yeah, that's a good idea with most of the class feature boosters.

Done.


Improved Manyshot: Ah, that should be fine then.

Awesome. :smallsmile:

Improved Precision: If you're only taking it once per 10 levels, it's not too strong at all. Monster HP scales really fast at epic, and rogues barely do enough damage as is, to say nothing of scout or ninja. It's only too strong if you can keep taking it, but since it's limited per 10 levels, it's fine.

Yeah, you're right, 3d6 it is! Done.

Reaping Whirlwind: There's no need for the movement clause. Normally, you wouldn't be able to move on such a turn anyway since it's a full-round action, and there's no reason to prevent you from doing it if you manage to find some way to move and full-round action.

Ok then. ^^
I was worried about how it would interact with Mobile Attack, but that specified full attack action, nut just full action, so that should be fine. Done.

Legendary Climber: That's a good idea. Should work.

Climb-By attack too, or just the other stuff, which is done now?

Legendary Rider: Half is fine too. It's not too important though since the point is to make enemies target you instead of your mount. This just makes the mount harder to kill; you've no such protection, however, so they just have to knock you down to finish your mount.

Agreed, and done. :)


Legendary Wrestler: Just remove this and keep Iron Talon. Then make Epic Grapple raise your effective size category by 2, and allow it to be taken once per 10 levels. That should fulfill any grapple modifier needs. Iron Talon has somewhat confusing wording though.

Ok, done. Is once every 20 levels of for Epic Grappler?
And how is that rewording?

Overwhelming Critical: Yeah, allowing it to stack as high as you want shouldn't be too bad since Improved Critical no longer stacks with Keen. Just make this takeable once per 10 levels and remove Dolorous Stroke.

How about I make that change to Overwhelming Critical, but diallow it's taking multiple times, and then let characters also take Dolorous Stroke, for a bigger multiplier, but again not allow it to be taken multiple times?

Nobody really bothers with poisons and diseases anyway at this level since it's way too easy to get immunity to them, even without this.

Very true. xD

Polymath: Not really. Right now it's just Jack of All Trades mixed with a Tongues spell. This just makes you a slightly better Jack of All Trades. You can do anything competently but nothing well, since this doesn't apply if you put ranks into a skill. Anyone who bothers specializing in the skill will have twice the ranks that you have in it because of this. I don't really see how this can become too powerful. You should make it require Jack of All Trades as a prerequisite though.

Spectral Strike: Make it so that your armor, natural armor, and shield ACs apply to attacks from incorporeal enemies as well. Might need to change the name though.

Done. Spectral Strike is now Ghost Buster. :smallbiggrin:

Spontaneous Spell: Make it apply to every spell slot of a level equal to or below half your maximum spell level. So a wizard with 10th level spells can spontaneously cast from 5th level slots. That seems pretty balanced.

Ok! Great idea! Done. Is the wording ok?

Two Weapon Rend: Since the ELH is 3.0 material, I think they just realized a lot of those weren't good epic so they made nonepic versions of them. Make it require the PHB2 Two-Weapon Rend, then let you perform a rend each time you hit with one weapon after another, without a 1/round limit.

Done. How is that wording?

Energy Strike: The Orb spells have some effects, but save-or-daze might be too strong when you make multiple attacks per round. I'm not sure, actually. I suppose you can just raise them to 5d6.

Hmmm, well unless anyone wants to suggest anything else I'll go ahead and make it 5d6 then. Done :3

Epic Weapon Finesse: Hmm, that's a good idea. Allow Weapon Finesse with all one-handed weapons.

Thanks! I was thinking two-handers too. Which I've done. That ok?

Flexible: That seems like it might make a decent regular feat, but isn't really epic material, since it has such limited usage. Maybe just make it capped at rounds/day equal to character level to make it a little more useful.

Great idea! Thanks!

Near Miss: Oh, good idea. Just make natural 20s not auto-hit for enemies and that should be enough.

Hmm, just not auto-hitting is a little weak though, are you sure it can't force a complete re-roll?

Zero-Range: That works fine.

Great, done!

I'm a little stumped for time both today and tomorrow, so I'll get back to this when I can find a little more free time. Sorry about making you wait so much.

No no, thank you for giving me so much help! :smallsmile:

A few more things before I'm done for the night:

I'm wondering, since Increased Spell Capacity doesn't seem to exist, how do spellcasters get 10th level and higher spells?

Spell levels progress at the same rate as before, with full casters getting 10th level slots at level 19, 11th level slors at level 21, and so on. I thought it was monumentally retarded to make anyone have to actually take a feat to allow their class features to progress. :smallyuk:

Bonus Domain - A single extra domain is a little weak, since you can PrC dip for more domains and you're not getting all that much for this, compared to other options. Maybe give two domains or give another set of domain slots (but that might be a little strong).

Two domains it is! Done. ^^

Intensify Maneuvers - I would keep this at 1-5 and 6-9, since it's just too feat intensive to be worth it if you have to take three feats to intensify everything. Just make it so that you can only take each one once per 10 levels to prevent overstacking.

Well, my fear is that it's easy to double the power of all your manuvers, but I'll trust your judgement. Done. Is once every 20 ok though? :3

Thanks once again!

Myou
2009-08-29, 05:00 AM
And here is the further revised list. http://www.sendspace.com/file/apueej

Anyone with thoughts, comments, or ideas for new feats, please post. :3

Zeta Kai
2009-08-29, 07:56 AM
Best. Feats. Evar.

I wish that you had written the Epic Level Handbook.

The Demented One
2009-08-29, 07:58 AM
I wish that you had written the Epic Level Handbook.
I just wish whoever had done it had actually tried to set a balance, instead of just throwing out numbers. "+1 to Charisma? Epic spells? Same thing."

Myou
2009-08-29, 08:58 AM
I just wish whoever had done it had actually tried to set a balance, instead of just throwing out numbers. "+1 to Charisma? Epic spells? Same thing."

Ugh, yeah, it's bizarre. I found the epic rules unusable.

Speaking of +1 to charisma, does everyone agree that +2 to a stat is a good epic feat? Or should it be more than +2?

Zeta Kai
2009-08-29, 09:33 AM
Ugh, yeah, it's bizarre. I found the epic rules unusable.

Speaking of +1 to charisma, does everyone agree that +2 to a stat is a good epic feat? Or should it be more than +2?


MOAR!!!

No serious, more. A lot more. Compare to eagle's splendor, et al.

Myou
2009-08-29, 10:10 AM
MOAR!!!

No serious, more. A lot more. Compare to eagle's splendor, et al.

:eek:


Perhaps +6? Is that fair? It seems like a lot, it is after all a base stat increase, not a buff.

Zeta Kai
2009-08-29, 10:41 AM
:eek:


Perhaps +6? Is that fair? It seems like a lot, it is after all a base stat increase, not a buff.

+6 is probably fine. That's a +3 modifier, which is really nice, but won't break anyone's game. I'd rather take one of Demented's feats, but if I had a feat to spare or felt that the boost would be useful in the immediate future to help my build, then I wouldn't sneeze at +6.

The important thing to remember is that in epic games, the number get pretty crazy, but they're mostly just noise. When there are so many ways to bypass those numbers with crazy abilities, they just don't matter as much.

Myou
2009-08-29, 11:05 AM
+6 is probably fine. That's a +3 modifier, which is really nice, but won't break anyone's game. I'd rather take one of Demented's feats, but if I had a feat to spare or felt that the boost would be useful in the immediate future to help my build, then I wouldn't sneeze at +6.

The important thing to remember is that in epic games, the number get pretty crazy, but they're mostly just noise. When there are so many ways to bypass those numbers with crazy abilities, they just don't matter as much.

Err, well I don't want to let numbers get too crazy. xD

I'll see what others think of +6 before I put it in the file, but it does sound good to me. I'm just a little concerned it might be too good.

Myou
2009-09-01, 05:21 AM
Raise Thread

PId6
2009-09-02, 02:10 AM
Sorry, with classes starting, I'm getting very little time to post much lately, so this'll come in erratic bursts.


Aerial Ace: Hmmm, you're right, but isn't it pretty easy to hit the Tumble DC to avoid attacks even without any bonus? What if it gives you a big bonus against being tripped or grappledwhile airbourne instead?

Sure, that could work.

Dexterous Fortitude and family: Well, you know it's only 2 feats you have to take, right? It really does seem too good to me if you can do it all day, because, well, every fighter will take Fortified Will, stuff like that, so no-one would ever have a bad save.

Yeah, that's kinda the point. There are plenty of ways to make perfect saves at epic level. Superior Resistance, Protection from Spells, any of the ToB saving throw maneuvers, numerous items, etc. Trust me, spending an epic feat to do it is not an optimal strategy.

Epic Spell Focus: Hmmmm.... So, add +1 for every twenty levels? Every ten levels?

I would really try to avoid every twenty level type deals. It's very very rare to have epic games going above 30-40, and by that time, it is (or should be) far more about freeform RP than mechanics, since otherwise the game just breaks down and cries. Every 20 levels for anything is almost as bad as just making it static, since in almost every epic game you should never expect to reach high enough for that to matter much.

Epic Weapon Focus/Weapon Specialization: What if I make the bonuses the same, but per 20 character levels?

Again, if you're going to have every 20 levels, you're almost better off just giving a static bonus, if just to alleviate the needless complexity. For Focus, I'd say something like +2 per 10 levels, and for damage, +4 per 10 levels. It's a decent enough bonus for a fighter, but that's about it.

Legendary Climber: Climb-By attack too, or just the other stuff, which is done now?

With Climb-By Attack. May as well stack it on, since it's a very very niche feat anyway.

Legendary Wrestler: Ok, done. Is once every 20 levels of for Epic Grappler?
And how is that rewording?

Again, anything taken only every 20 levels is a bad idea. As for the wording, I still need to reread it a lot to parse this line: "and if a creature you are grappling or attempting to grapple would otherwise escape your grip you make opposed strength checks, and if you win then you maintain/begin the grapple, even against effects such as Freedom of Movement." Why not just say you can grapple enemies under effects like Freedom of Movement, but at a penalty?

Overwhelming Critical: How about I make that change to Overwhelming Critical, but diallow it's taking multiple times, and then let characters also take Dolorous Stroke, for a bigger multiplier, but again not allow it to be taken multiple times?

That's fine.

Spontaneous Spell: Ok! Great idea! Done. Is the wording ok?

I would refer more to spell slots rather than spells themselves. Like "You may choose to expend a prepared spell slot of a level not greater than half your maximum spell level in order to cast a spell you know from that slot spontaneously. The level of the spontaneously casted spell must be less than or equal to the level of the slot expended, including all metamagic adjustments. A spontaneously casted spell with metamagic applied would take a full-round action to cast with as normal for spontaneous spellcasting (unless you have the Rapid Metamagic feat)." Taking about the spells themselves could leave it open for something like meta-adjusted fireball spontaneously off a 10th level slot because fireball is only a 3rd level spell.

Two Weapon Rend: Done. How is that wording?

Add a clause about ignoring the normal 1/round limit, then fix Multiweapon Rend as well. Also needs a different name, probably just Improved Two-Weapon Rend unless you want something more creative.

Epic Weapon Finesse: Thanks! I was thinking two-handers too. Which I've done. That ok?

Meh, no real crunch problems with it. Seems a bit weird to finesse two-handers, but oh well, it's epic.

Near Miss: Hmm, just not auto-hitting is a little weak though, are you sure it can't force a complete re-roll?

Not auto-hitting can be pretty useful against swarms of weak creatures, but I guess that's usually not enough. Sure, just make it a [Luck] feat, and maybe require another [Luck] feat as well.

Intensify Maneuvers - Well, my fear is that it's easy to double the power of all your manuvers, but I'll trust your judgement. Done. Is once every 20 ok though? :3

Again, once per 20 is barely better than no stacking at all. Just make it once per 10; it's not that strong to have x2 better maneuvers once per 10 levels when 10 levels represent a momentous leap in power.

Wow, it's 3 AM already and I've classes tomorrow. Grrr, still can't finish up now. Anyway, just going to throw my 2 cents in on the +stat feats. My opinion is that making such feats weaker than others isn't too important, since you're not suppose to take them unless you have some dire need. Otherwise there's a potential for abuse since stats can be used for a lot of things. I would put it at +4 maximum or +5 if you want a more pleasing number, but even +2 isn't so bad. I see it as a means to make prerequisites; not for taking normally.

Myou
2009-09-02, 05:32 AM
Sorry, with classes starting, I'm getting very little time to post much lately, so this'll come in erratic bursts.

that's ok, I appreciate the help!

Aerial Ace: Sure, that could work.

Done, I made it +10.

Dexterous Fortitude and family: Yeah, that's kinda the point. There are plenty of ways to make perfect saves at epic level. Superior Resistance, Protection from Spells, any of the ToB saving throw maneuvers, numerous items, etc. Trust me, spending an epic feat to do it is not an optimal strategy.

Hmmm, that is true, yeah. I still feel uncomfortable making it infinite, but what if I made it once per round all day? It's rare that you make more than one big save of any one type per round - normally foes change tack if they think your save of that type is high. If that really wouldn't be good enough then I'll do as you say though.

Epic Spell Focus: I would really try to avoid every twenty level type deals. It's very very rare to have epic games going above 30-40, and by that time, it is (or should be) far more about freeform RP than mechanics, since otherwise the game just breaks down and cries. Every 20 levels for anything is almost as bad as just making it static, since in almost every epic game you should never expect to reach high enough for that to matter much.

Mmm, that is true. Maybe +2 per ten levels? +4 right away if you take it at 21. Or, maybe just a static +4?

Epic Weapon Focus/Weapon Specialization: Again, if you're going to have every 20 levels, you're almost better off just giving a static bonus, if just to alleviate the needless complexity. For Focus, I'd say something like +2 per 10 levels, and for damage, +4 per 10 levels. It's a decent enough bonus for a fighter, but that's about it.

Ok! Done.

Legendary Climber: With Climb-By Attack. May as well stack it on, since it's a very very niche feat anyway.

Done! ^^

Epic Grappler/Iron Talon: Again, anything taken only every 20 levels is a bad idea. As for the wording, I still need to reread it a lot to parse this line: "and if a creature you are grappling or attempting to grapple would otherwise escape your grip you make opposed strength checks, and if you win then you maintain/begin the grapple, even against effects such as Freedom of Movement." Why not just say you can grapple enemies under effects like Freedom of Movement, but at a penalty?

Good point, every ten levels?

I reworded it again, I hope that's clearer. The idea is that anyone escaping your grapple has to win a str check, not just that FoM no longer aout-escapes. Does that make any sense? ^^;

Overwhelming Critical: That's fine.

Done. ^^

Spontaneous Spells: I would refer more to spell slots rather than spells themselves. Like "You may choose to expend a prepared spell slot of a level not greater than half your maximum spell level in order to cast a spell you know from that slot spontaneously. The level of the spontaneously casted spell must be less than or equal to the level of the slot expended, including all metamagic adjustments. A spontaneously casted spell with metamagic applied would take a full-round action to cast with as normal for spontaneous spellcasting (unless you have the Rapid Metamagic feat)." Taking about the spells themselves could leave it open for something like meta-adjusted fireball spontaneously off a 10th level slot because fireball is only a 3rd level spell.

Done! That's a lot better!

Greater Two Weapon Rend: Add a clause about ignoring the normal 1/round limit, then fix Multiweapon Rend as well. Also needs a different name, probably just Improved Two-Weapon Rend unless you want something more creative.

Done and done. ^^
I may rename a lot of these some time, should the mood take me.

Epic Weapon Finesse: Meh, no real crunch problems with it. Seems a bit weird to finesse two-handers, but oh well, it's epic.

Yeah, if you think about it, the idea is that you're able to dextrously manuver even normally cumbersome objects. And done.

Near Miss: Not auto-hitting can be pretty useful against swarms of weak creatures, but I guess that's usually not enough. Sure, just make it a [Luck] feat, and maybe require another [Luck] feat as well.

Wouldn't that mean you can only do it once a day? :smalleek:

Intensify Maneuvers: Again, once per 20 is barely better than no stacking at all. Just make it once per 10; it's not that strong to have x2 better maneuvers once per 10 levels when 10 levels represent a momentous leap in power.

Ok! Done! ^^

Wow, it's 3 AM already and I've classes tomorrow. Grrr, still can't finish up now.

Don't worry about it, I'm very grateful for your excellent advice. :smallsmile:

Anyway, just going to throw my 2 cents in on the +stat feats. My opinion is that making such feats weaker than others isn't too important, since you're not suppose to take them unless you have some dire need. Otherwise there's a potential for abuse since stats can be used for a lot of things. I would put it at +4 maximum or +5 if you want a more pleasing number, but even +2 isn't so bad. I see it as a means to make prerequisites; not for taking normally.

Yes, I agree with you. What I'd really like is for the +stat feats to only be practical if you take them for a really key stat. What prerequisites are there that wouldn't be met by a stat already at 25? But perhaps I should take out that requirement.

I think I'm going to go with your idea of +5, I really like that. :3
+6 is too high, and while +5 is a lot, it's only a +2 mod and you can't take it too often

Thanks for all the help! I look forward to your next post, I hope college/school goes well! ^^

Myou
2009-09-02, 05:35 AM
And here's the latest file with the updates. http://www.sendspace.com/file/y6qb7j

The Demented One
2009-09-02, 06:25 AM
Again, anything taken only every 20 levels is a bad idea. As for the wording, I still need to reread it a lot to parse this line: "and if a creature you are grappling or attempting to grapple would otherwise escape your grip you make opposed strength checks, and if you win then you maintain/begin the grapple, even against effects such as Freedom of Movement." Why not just say you can grapple enemies under effects like Freedom of Movement, but at a penalty?
It's not meant to grapple people under Freedom of Movement. It's meant to grapple everyone. Tarrasque? You just grappled it. There's no bonus you could give to a grapple-heavy character that lets them stay competitive at high levels, but this might work.

PId6
2009-09-02, 10:35 AM
Dexterous Fortitude and family: Hmmm, that is true, yeah. I still feel uncomfortable making it infinite, but what if I made it once per round all day? It's rare that you make more than one big save of any one type per round - normally foes change tack if they think your save of that type is high. If that really wouldn't be good enough then I'll do as you say though.

If you want to limit it like that, alright. It's not a big different either way. I don't think it's really necessary but there's not much difference.

Epic Spell Focus: Mmm, that is true. Maybe +2 per ten levels? +4 right away if you take it at 21. Or, maybe just a static +4?

+2 per 10 levels is fine.

Epic Grappler/Iron Talon: Good point, every ten levels?

I reworded it again, I hope that's clearer. The idea is that anyone escaping your grapple has to win a str check, not just that FoM no longer aout-escapes. Does that make any sense? ^^;

Every 10 levels is fine. Grapples normally require something similar to a Str check anyway, and casters with FoM probably has far less Str than a grappler, so FoM doesn't really help them and this just increases the dice you have to throw for the already annoyingly complex grapple. And preventing Escape Artist escapes entirely is a little strong since otherwise you're just requiring that everybody use magic to escape your grapples (which just hurts rogue-types, not wizards). I don't know of other non-magical ways to escape grapples. It seems simplest and most effective to just let FoM-type effects grant a -10 or -20 penalty and let it go at that.

Near Miss: Wouldn't that mean you can only do it once a day?

Whoops, I forgot that [Luck] feats had their own mechanic. Just thought that it would be flavorful to have the label, but I guess not. Never mind then.

Yes, I agree with you. What I'd really like is for the +stat feats to only be practical if you take them for a really key stat. What prerequisites are there that wouldn't be met by a stat already at 25? But perhaps I should take out that requirement.

It can be pretty hard to get stats at 25 for non-SAD classes (anyone but casters). And there are feats with more than one 20+ attribute requirements. Those are pretty hard to get normally, so the +stat feats may be necessary.

Thanks for all the help! I look forward to your next post, I hope college/school goes well! ^^

Heh, I'm in class right now!


It's not meant to grapple people under Freedom of Movement. It's meant to grapple everyone. Tarrasque? You just grappled it. There's no bonus you could give to a grapple-heavy character that lets them stay competitive at high levels, but this might work.
I'm not aware of anything that prevents you from grappling the Terrasque, besides size, and Epic Grappler makes up for that. Freedom of Movement (and similar effects like the psionic version) are the only things I know of that actually prevent grappling, besides size which is already accounted for.

Myou
2009-09-02, 11:00 AM
It's not meant to grapple people under Freedom of Movement. It's meant to grapple everyone. Tarrasque? You just grappled it. There's no bonus you could give to a grapple-heavy character that lets them stay competitive at high levels, but this might work.

Yeah, that's exactly what I meant. :smallsmile:
Of course, you have to win the Str check, but that you may well do, whereas you'd have to take Epic Grappler quite a few times to even be allowed to try to grapply the tarrasque.





Dexterous Fortitude and family: If you want to limit it like that, alright. It's not a big different either way. I don't think it's really necessary but there's not much difference.

Awesome. ^^
I'm glad we can find a compromise that seems workable. Done.

Epic Spell Focus: +2 per 10 levels is fine.

Done!

Epic Grappler/Iron Talon: Grapples normally require something similar to a Str check anyway, and casters with FoM probably has far less Str than a grappler, so FoM doesn't really help them and this just increases the dice you have to throw for the already annoyingly complex grapple. And preventing Escape Artist escapes entirely is a little strong since otherwise you're just requiring that everybody use magic to escape your grapples (which just hurts rogue-types, not wizards). I don't know of other non-magical ways to escape grapples. It seems simplest and most effective to just let FoM-type effects grant a -10 or -20 penalty and let it go at that.

Well, the idea is that it also stops creatures with big racial bonuses to grappling or just colossal+ size from getting away. What if I add a clause that the for may substitute an escape atrist check for their str check?

Near Miss: Whoops, I forgot that [Luck] feats had their own mechanic. Just thought that it would be flavorful to have the label, but I guess not. Never mind then.

Heh, I thought that to, but I had a look just to be certain. Well, non-luck, but otherwise done. ^^

It can be pretty hard to get stats at 25 for non-SAD classes (anyone but casters). And there are feats with more than one 20+ attribute requirements. Those are pretty hard to get normally, so the +stat feats may be necessary.

Yes, you're definitely right there - the 25 requirement to take the boosting stats is gone.


Heh, I'm in class right now!

I guess that means it's going well! xD

I'm not aware of anything that prevents you from grappling the Terrasque, besides size, and Epic Grappler makes up for that. Freedom of Movement (and similar effects like the psionic version) are the only things I know of that actually prevent grappling, besides size which is already accounted for.

The thing is that if you are, say, medium, and you take Epic Grappler, hat only lets you grapple Huge creatures. You'd have to take it 3 times to grapple the tarrasque (or anything else colossal), and even more times if your DM uses the colossal+ sizes.

This is great, I feel like we're early there with these feats! :smallsmile:

Of course, I still want more suggestions from anyone who has them!



Here's the updated file; http://www.sendspace.com/file/e947xg

Random832
2009-09-04, 07:41 PM
Edit 1: Spell levels progress without the need for a feat, at the same speed as they do normally. Yes, full casters get 10th level spells at level 19.

Hi, saw your sig. Question: Do they max out at (e.g. for wizards) 4 spells per level? Will bards get a new spell list with 7-9 level spells? (mass CSW and CCW are obvious ones for 7 and 8)

Myou
2009-09-04, 07:52 PM
Hi, saw your sig. Question: Do they max out at (e.g. for wizards) 4 spells per level? Will bards get a new spell list with 7-9 level spells? (mass CSW and CCW are obvious ones for 7 and 8)

Oooh, cool, thanks for taking an interest!

Yeah, they max at 4 per level for wizards and druids and 4+1 for clerics. :3

Bards and other limited casters will be able to add new spells to their list, adding anything thay want that the DM feels appropriate. So I'd let a bard make stuff like mass CCW, but not Shapechange.

Myou
2009-09-07, 04:44 AM
Wow, no-one's interested? D:

PId6
2009-09-08, 06:25 AM
Energy Bolt - Give an option to change that into an AOE attack instead. So maybe also allow you to fire an energy blast that deals d4s rather than d6s and damage a 20 radius area for Reflex half rather than ranged touch.

Finishing Bolt - Get rid of the required release duration remaining factor. Make the knockback 5 ft per character level. Since you can only do this once per day, may as well raise it to 3d6 to be somewhat more effective. And you're spending an epic feat on it; exhaustion is a terrible deal. Also allow this for AOE with d4s and those that fail the save suffer the knockback (at half power).

Release - The all-day penalties really make this bad to take, especially since +4 to damage is more than negated by the -4 to Str and the 1/day effect isn't worth sucking more for the entire day beforehand. Get rid of the day-long bonuses/penalties (including fatigue) and the preparation time and just keep the release ability, making it last for an entire encounter and can be used once per day. Give temp HP equal to 4*HD rather than +Con since with +Con, the extra HP can make you die at the end. The speed should be +30 ft instead just to be more noticeable. Make it selectable once per 10 levels.

Extended Release - Replace with Additional Release, letting you use Release an additional time per day. Allowed to take once per 10 levels.

Blot out the Sun - This is just cool, but with arrows barely doing any damage individually, this isn't going to be very useful. The way that archers actually deal damage is by shooting a lot of them. Maybe rather than have each 100 arrows target individual squares, just have the total area go up for each 100 arrows fired and have them all damage the same area. And make the Reflex save for half instead of full.

Swarm of Arrows - There's a reason nobody ever takes Whirlwind Attack. May as well make this like Bloodstorm Blade's ability and let you make one attack against every enemy within range, not just within 30 ft. Also, there's no reason to require Weapon Focus on this feat.

Cut the Air - Better off just replacing this with an ability to add 5 ft reach in general, since melee really do need it. Make it stackable every 10 levels.

Counter Stance - This is actually slightly worse than Robilar's Gambit (PHB2). Maybe an improvement on that instead?

Crippling Blow - There's a feat in Drow of the Underdark called Staggering Critical which makes an opponent slowed for 1 round if you confirm a critical on them, which is actually quite a bit better than this. And is it just me or does this last permanently? :smalleek: Maybe make it so that they're slowed for the rest of the encounter instead if you confirm the crit, and if they fail the save as well, their speed automatically falls to 5 ft for one minute.

Master Craftsman - Typo with tolls. Also, am I reading this right or does this epic feat save you 105 gp? :smallconfused:

Adaptive Defense - Typo there with form. Make this require Dodge and make it a dodge bonus to AC. Skip the penalty and just make this apply to your Dodge target.

Hide from the Mind - The way this is worded, it's possible to just keep rerolling until they fail. You should also involve Bluff in this somehow. Make it so that if an enemy would detect you from a successful Spot or Listen check against your Hide or Move Silently, you may roll a Bluff check against their Spot/Listen result. If you succeed, you may reroll your Hide/Move Silently with a bonus equal to the amount by which your Bluff exceeded their Spot/Listen.

Epic Maneuver Recovery - Forgot about this, but needs some qualifier for crusaders, like that chosen maneuver is automatically a granted maneuver as well.

That's about all of them. Finally! :smallbiggrin:


The thing is that if you are, say, medium, and you take Epic Grappler, hat only lets you grapple Huge creatures. You'd have to take it 3 times to grapple the tarrasque (or anything else colossal), and even more times if your DM uses the colossal+ sizes.
But really, a colossal+ creature should be very very hard to grapple. You shouldn't be able to perfectly grapple everything with one feat. And besides, there are other ways to raise your size and Epic Grappler should stack with those. Enlarge Person for one size category, Expansion for two, Giant Size potentially three or four. It should take a few epic levels or some cleverness to grapple such gigantic creatures as the terrasque.

Myou
2009-09-08, 07:51 AM
Sorry I took a while to reply, hopefully you're still about.


Energy Bolt - Give an option to change that into an AOE attack instead. So maybe also allow you to fire an energy blast that deals d4s rather than d6s and damage a 20 radius area for Reflex half rather than ranged touch.

Done! How's that DC?

Finishing Bolt - Get rid of the required release duration remaining factor. Make the knockback 5 ft per character level. Since you can only do this once per day, may as well raise it to 3d6 to be somewhat more effective. And you're spending an epic feat on it; exhaustion is a terrible deal. Also allow this for AOE with d4s and those that fail the save suffer the knockback (at half power).

Done.

Release - The all-day penalties really make this bad to take, especially since +4 to damage is more than negated by the -4 to Str and the 1/day effect isn't worth sucking more for the entire day beforehand. Get rid of the day-long bonuses/penalties (including fatigue) and the preparation time and just keep the release ability, making it last for an entire encounter and can be used once per day. Give temp HP equal to 4*HD rather than +Con since with +Con, the extra HP can make you die at the end. The speed should be +30 ft instead just to be more noticeable. Make it selectable once per 10 levels.

Ok, penalities are gone, but I really don't want to make it last a whole encounter - that means the eergy bolts become free. Or should the energy bolts be free and just a little weaker? Also, how about +con and temp HP too?
Oh, and I'd actually prefer it not be something you can keep taking, becasue then after taking it a few times the energy bolt feat becomes worthless - the bonuses are too good.
But maybe the bolt should somehow scale too?

Extended Release - Replace with Additional Release, letting you use Release an additional time per day. Allowed to take once per 10 levels.

Well, I actually rather want it to be a once per day thing. are you shoure I should do that?

Blot out the Sun - This is just cool, but with arrows barely doing any damage individually, this isn't going to be very useful. The way that archers actually deal damage is by shooting a lot of them. Maybe rather than have each 100 arrows target individual squares, just have the total area go up for each 100 arrows fired and have them all damage the same area. And make the Reflex save for half instead of full.

Done! ^^

Swarm of Arrows - There's a reason nobody ever takes Whirlwind Attack. May as well make this like Bloodstorm Blade's ability and let you make one attack against every enemy within range, not just within 30 ft. Also, there's no reason to require Weapon Focus on this feat.

What about making it a standard action too? Done, if that's ok.

Cut the Air - Better off just replacing this with an ability to add 5 ft reach in general, since melee really do need it. Make it stackable every 10 levels.

Done! ^^

Counter Stance - This is actually slightly worse than Robilar's Gambit (PHB2). Maybe an improvement on that instead?

Done! How's that?

Crippling Blow - There's a feat in Drow of the Underdark called Staggering Critical which makes an opponent slowed for 1 round if you confirm a critical on them, which is actually quite a bit better than this. And is it just me or does this last permanently? :smalleek: Maybe make it so that they're slowed for the rest of the encounter instead if you confirm the crit, and if they fail the save as well, their speed automatically falls to 5 ft for one minute.

How's that? :smallsmile:

Master Craftsman - Typo with tolls. Also, am I reading this right or does this epic feat save you 105 gp? :smallconfused:

Is that better? xD

Adaptive Defense - Typo there with form. Make this require Dodge and make it a dodge bonus to AC. Skip the penalty and just make this apply to your Dodge target.

Thanks! Done! :smallsmile:

Hide from the Mind - The way this is worded, it's possible to just keep rerolling until they fail. You should also involve Bluff in this somehow. Make it so that if an enemy would detect you from a successful Spot or Listen check against your Hide or Move Silently, you may roll a Bluff check against their Spot/Listen result. If you succeed, you may reroll your Hide/Move Silently with a bonus equal to the amount by which your Bluff exceeded their Spot/Listen.

How's that?

Epic Maneuver Recovery - Forgot about this, but needs some qualifier for crusaders, like that chosen maneuver is automatically a granted maneuver as well.

Um, sorry, I don't qite understand what you mean there. D:

That's about all of them. Finally! :smallbiggrin:

Thank you very much for your help! I hope you'll keep replaying until we're both hapy with what I have. :smallsmile:

But really, a colossal+ creature should be very very hard to grapple. You shouldn't be able to perfectly grapple everything with one feat. And besides, there are other ways to raise your size and Epic Grappler should stack with those. Enlarge Person for one size category, Expansion for two, Giant Size potentially three or four. It should take a few epic levels or some cleverness to grapple such gigantic creatures as the terrasque.

Well, it still is - you have to overpower it. This just lets you try rather than auto-failing. :3
Do you really think it's overpowered?


Here's the new file. http://www.sendspace.com/file/nznjgk ^^

Myou
2009-09-09, 02:57 AM
A few new ones, how are these?

Is Unavoidable Shot too good? Or should it include 9th level spells too?



Unstoppable Shot [Epic]:

Prerequisites: Uncanny Accuracy

Benefit: When you attack with a ranged weapon and deal a creature enough damage to make it drop (typically by dropping it to below 0 hit points or killing it), your attack continues on in a line until stopped by a solid object (an object capable of providing hard cover and withstanding the attack), or until it strikes a creature that survives the blow. Creatures in it's path may make a reflex save to avoid the attack (DC 10 + 1/2 your character level + your Dexterity modifier).


Moment of Perfect Insight [Epic]:

Prerequisites: Uncanny Accuracy, Dolorous Stroke (Weapon used)

Benefit: Once each round you may make a single ranged attack with a +20 bonu to hit as a standard action. This attack automatically threatens and allows you to apply precision damage even if used on a creature normally immune to critical hits.


Unavoidable Shot [Epic]:

Prerequisites: Unstoppable Shot, Moment of Perfect Insight

Benefit: Your ranged attacks ignore all magical effects whose level is lower than 9th. For example, your attacks no longer suffer an increased miss chance when attacking a Hasted foe or miss thanks to a Wind Wall spell.

PId6
2009-09-09, 04:16 AM
Energy Bolt - Done! How's that DC?

That's fine. The effect seems a bit weak though. It just doesn't do enough damage compared to just going in and full attacking or casting a god spell. The huge range makes it occasionally useful, but on the whole it isn't really that good. Just raising damage might not be the best solution though. Maybe give it some other effects similar to warlock essences?

Release - Ok, penalities are gone, but I really don't want to make it last a whole encounter - that means the eergy bolts become free. Or should the energy bolts be free and just a little weaker? Also, how about +con and temp HP too?
Oh, and I'd actually prefer it not be something you can keep taking, becasue then after taking it a few times the energy bolt feat becomes worthless - the bonuses are too good.
But maybe the bolt should somehow scale too?

Make release a free action, to be more in line with normal Rage and that type of effects. Also, the DR is pretty negligible at this level. Make it equal to character level. DR in general usually isn't that great anyway. Normally, encounters last like 3-5 rounds max, especially in epic, so getting rid of duration reduces bookkeeping without making it that much stronger in any but the most extraordinary circumstances. And Energy Bolt isn't free because you're sacrificing an epic feat and the ability to deal much more damage with a full attack when you use it.

As for scaling, you can just get rid of the stack mechanism entirely if you want, and have the ability grant an additional +4 stats per 10 character levels above 20. Stacking can make it a bit strong in the +HP department anyhow. See above for suggested changes for Energy Bolt.

Extended Release - Well, I actually rather want it to be a once per day thing. are you shoure I should do that?

Okay, that's no problem then. Just 1/day does make a lot of sense.

Blot out the Sun - Done! ^^

Get rid of the "if they are aware of the attack". That's never used with any other reflex saves, so it's strange to use it here. If you can dodge a fireball without being aware that it's there, a hail of arrows shouldn't be too different.

Swarm of Arrows - What about making it a standard action too? Done, if that's ok.

No problem. Needs the boost anyway.

Cut the Air - Done! ^^

Nitpick: range increment doesn't apply to melee weapons, so that doesn't really make sense. Just say extend your reach with all melee attacks by 5 ft and it stacks with all other sources of reach.

Counter Stance - Done! How's that?

Much better!

Crippling Blow - How's that?

I'm a bit leery of just letting full healing negate the effects, since Fast Healing can ruin this completely. Maybe specify instead that you must use a Greater Restoration or Heal effect to restore it early?

Master Craftsman - Is that better? xD

Crafting is such a useless skill, may as well boost it in every way possibly. Keep the no tools and say that you're always treated as if using Masterwork Artisan's Tools when Crafting. Change the 100 gp thing to reduce the cost of all raw materials to 1/20 of the base price (as opposed to the normal 1/3), or free if the cost of the materials is less than 10 gp per character level. Finally, reduce the time required to Craft something by a factor of 20.

Hide from the Mind - How's that?

Great!

Epic Maneuver Recovery - Um, sorry, I don't qite understand what you mean there. D:

Since crusaders have their own recovery mechanism (granted maneuvers out of their normal readied maneuvers) they probably need some qualifier to say that the newly recovered maneuver is not only readied, but granted as well. Otherwise it's fairly useless for crusaders if your maneuver is recovered but you still don't have access to it because it's not granted.

Well, it still is - you have to overpower it. This just lets you try rather than auto-failing. :3
Do you really think it's overpowered?

It's not that it's overpowered, it's just that the mechanic of another Strength check is a bit confusing and unnecessary, and we all know that grapple rules don't need anymore complexity! :smalltongue: Why not just say you don't autofail against Freedom of Movement and creatures of exceptional size category?
Nothing to see here.

PId6
2009-09-09, 04:25 AM
Unstoppable Shot [Epic]:

Prerequisites: Uncanny Accuracy

Benefit: When you attack with a ranged weapon and deal a creature enough damage to make it drop (typically by dropping it to below 0 hit points or killing it), your attack continues on in a line until stopped by a solid object (an object capable of providing hard cover and withstanding the attack), or until it strikes a creature that survives the blow. Creatures in it's path may make a reflex save to avoid the attack (DC 10 + 1/2 your character level + your Dexterity modifier).
This is pretty much Cleave but with arrows. Cleave is normally quite bad due to how situational it is, and arrows lack the oomph that melee attacks have, meaning this is even weaker. And this is epic...


Moment of Perfect Insight [Epic]:

Prerequisites: Uncanny Accuracy, Dolorous Stroke (Weapon used)

Benefit: Once each round you may make a single ranged attack with a +20 bonu to hit as a standard action. This attack automatically threatens and allows you to apply precision damage even if used on a creature normally immune to critical hits.
Decent and sometimes useful. Pretty good. Don't restrict this to a single weapon though; make Dolorous Stroke requirement be any ranged weapon.


Unavoidable Shot [Epic]:

Prerequisites: Unstoppable Shot, Moment of Perfect Insight

Benefit: Your ranged attacks ignore all magical effects whose level is lower than 9th. For example, your attacks no longer suffer an increased miss chance when attacking a Hasted foe or miss thanks to a Wind Wall spell.
"Ignore all magical effects" is way too vague, on the level of Iron Heart Surge. You should name exactly what gets ignored, like AC/miss chance/DR gained from spells. And yeah, include 9th level spells as well; casters get 10th+ spells, use them.

Myou
2009-09-09, 04:36 AM
Gah, no time to reply! Curse you, bus timetable!

I'll have to answer this afternoon when I get home. ><

Myou
2009-09-09, 07:15 AM
I added those three into the revised feat list. :3



Energy Bolt: The effect seems a bit weak though. It just doesn't do enough damage compared to just going in and full attacking or casting a god spell. The huge range makes it occasionally useful, but on the whole it isn't really that good. Just raising damage might not be the best solution though. Maybe give it some other effects similar to warlock essences?

Hmmm... what sort of effect? I'm not up on Warlocks.

Release: Make release a free action, to be more in line with normal Rage and that type of effects. Also, the DR is pretty negligible at this level. Make it equal to character level. DR in general usually isn't that great anyway. Normally, encounters last like 3-5 rounds max, especially in epic, so getting rid of duration reduces bookkeeping without making it that much stronger in any but the most extraordinary circumstances. And Energy Bolt isn't free because you're sacrificing an epic feat and the ability to deal much more damage with a full attack when you use it.

Ahh, good point! Done!

As for scaling, you can just get rid of the stack mechanism entirely if you want, and have the ability grant an additional +4 stats per 10 character levels above 20. Stacking can make it a bit strong in the +HP department anyhow. See above for suggested changes for Energy Bolt.

Oh, good idea! Done!

Extended Release: Okay, that's no problem then. Just 1/day does make a lot of sense.

Awesome, I'll drop this feat then, it does nothing now.

How is Regenerating Release now? I changed it quite a bit.

Blot out the Sun: Get rid of the "if they are aware of the attack". That's never used with any other reflex saves, so it's strange to use it here. If you can dodge a fireball without being aware that it's there, a hail of arrows shouldn't be too different.

Ok!

Cut the Air: Nitpick: range increment doesn't apply to melee weapons, so that doesn't really make sense. Just say extend your reach with all melee attacks by 5 ft and it stacks with all other sources of reach.

Done. ^^


Crippling Blow: I'm a bit leery of just letting full healing negate the effects, since Fast Healing can ruin this completely. Maybe specify instead that you must use a Greater Restoration or Heal effect to restore it early?

Ok! ^^

Master Craftsman: Crafting is such a useless skill, may as well boost it in every way possibly. Keep the no tools and say that you're always treated as if using Masterwork Artisan's Tools when Crafting. Change the 100 gp thing to reduce the cost of all raw materials to 1/20 of the base price (as opposed to the normal 1/3), or free if the cost of the materials is less than 10 gp per character level. Finally, reduce the time required to Craft something by a factor of 20.

Is that ok? I made it simpler, dividing cost and time by 10.


Epic Maneuver Recovery: Since crusaders have their own recovery mechanism (granted maneuvers out of their normal readied maneuvers) they probably need some qualifier to say that the newly recovered maneuver is not only readied, but granted as well. Otherwise it's fairly useless for crusaders if your maneuver is recovered but you still don't have access to it because it's not granted.

Ahhh, yes, I see! Done! ^^

It's not that it's overpowered, it's just that the mechanic of another Strength check is a bit confusing and unnecessary, and we all know that grapple rules don't need anymore complexity! Why not just say you don't autofail against Freedom of Movement and creatures of exceptional size category?

Because I am a fool. xD
Done. Also made the bonus a round +10.

This is pretty much Cleave but with arrows. Cleave is normally quite bad due to how situational it is, and arrows lack the oomph that melee attacks have, meaning this is even weaker. And this is epic...

Mmm, very true.
How is it now?


Decent and sometimes useful. Pretty good. Don't restrict this to a single weapon though; make Dolorous Stroke requirement be any ranged weapon.

Done! Thanks!

"Ignore all magical effects" is way too vague, on the level of Iron Heart Surge. You should name exactly what gets ignored, like AC/miss chance/DR gained from spells. And yeah, include 9th level spells as well; casters get 10th+ spells, use them.

Ohh, yeah. Ok, how is that?


Updated file; http://www.sendspace.com/file/7yn7ax

PId6
2009-09-10, 11:15 PM
Energy Bolt: Hmmm... what sort of effect? I'm not up on Warlocks.

Just normal debuffs (confusion, slow, negative levels, fear, etc), energy damage, and such. I've no idea how to implement something like this though.

How is Regenerating Release now? I changed it quite a bit.

Looks fine. Might add in ability drain as well.

Master Craftsman: Is that ok? I made it simpler, dividing cost and time by 10.

That works.

Mmm, very true.
How is it now?

Line effects need to specify area. Make it 5 ft wide, 5 ft tall, and has length equal to one range increment of the attack.

Ohh, yeah. Ok, how is that?

Perfect!
Iron Talon - "You no longer fail checks..." means that you no longer fail grapple period against those creatures. I think you mean "You no longer automatically fail checks..." You should let Freedom of Movement give you a penalty to the check though, so it's not entirely useless in grapples. Also, the teleportation clause is no longer applicable, so remove that.

Myou
2009-09-10, 11:52 PM
Energy Bolt: Just normal debuffs (confusion, slow, negative levels, fear, etc), energy damage, and such. I've no idea how to implement something like this though.

How about it requires a fort save to avoid being stunned?

Regenerating Release: Looks fine. Might add in ability drain as well.

Done!

Master Craftsman: That works.

Great! ^^

Unstoppable Shot: Line effects need to specify area. Make it 5 ft wide, 5 ft tall, and has length equal to one range increment of the attack.

Ahhh, ok! Done!

Unavoidable Shot: Perfect!

Yay, thank you! :smallsmile:

Iron Talon - "You no longer fail checks..." means that you no longer fail grapple period against those creatures. I think you mean "You no longer automatically fail checks..." You should let Freedom of Movement give you a penalty to the check though, so it's not entirely useless in grapples. Also, the teleportation clause is no longer applicable, so remove that.

Oops! Done!


Thanks for your reply! I should have nightmares and wake up at 5am screaming more often. xD

http://www.sendspace.com/file/1uapa2

PId6
2009-09-11, 12:06 AM
Energy Bolt: How about it requires a fort save to avoid being stunned?

Make it daze for 1 round and that can work. That should be a Will save though. Finishing Bolt can guarantee daze for 1 round then, without save.

Unstoppable Shot: Ahhh, ok! Done!

You shouldn't both require an attack roll and allow a save. Usually, AOE effects just allow a reflex save for half in place of attack rolls.

Thanks for your reply! I should have nightmares and wake up at 5am screaming more often. xD

Was it nightmares about the horrendous quality of normal epic rules? :smallbiggrin:
Actually, there are few enough quotes that I can just quote each piece separately. Oh well, I'm lazy. :smalltongue:

Myou
2009-09-11, 01:55 AM
Energy Bolt: How about it requires a fort save to avoid being stunned?

Make it daze for 1 round and that can work. That should be a Will save though. Finishing Bolt can guarantee daze for 1 round then, without save.

Awesome! Ok! How's that DC?

Unstoppable Shot: You shouldn't both require an attack roll and allow a save. Usually, AOE effects just allow a reflex save for half in place of attack rolls.

Oh, that makes sense! Done! :smallsmile:

Thanks for your reply! I should have nightmares and wake up at 5am screaming more often. xD

Was it nightmares about the horrendous quality of normal epic rules? :smallbiggrin:

Oh gods, so many extra spells per round! Why are there solars everywhere?! Why is metamagic free?! Why is the monk immune to archers?!

Actually, there are few enough quotes that I can just quote each piece separately. Oh well, I'm lazy. :smalltongue:

I'm lazy too! :smallbiggrin:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/che3px

PId6
2009-09-11, 02:56 AM
Ugh, this is too much. Must. Force. Myself. To. Copy. Quote. Twice.


Energy Bolt: Awesome! Ok! How's that DC?
That's fine. Actually, I just realized that the AOE version is now strictly better than the targeted version. Maybe raise the AOE damage to be the same as regular damage, but only allow daze for the single shot one? Same for Finishing Bolt.


Oh gods, so many extra spells per round! Why are there solars everywhere?! Why is metamagic free?! Why is the monk immune to archers?!
A wizard did it. A wizard who lives by the shore.


I'm lazy too! :smallbiggrin:
I've overcome my laziness, now it's your turn! :smallwink:

Myou
2009-09-11, 03:29 AM
Ugh, this is too much. Must. Force. Myself. To. Copy. Quote. Twice.

That's fine. Actually, I just realized that the AOE version is now strictly better than the targeted version. Maybe raise the AOE damage to be the same as regular damage, but only allow daze for the single shot one? Same for Finishing Bolt.

Oh, great idea, yeah! Done!

A wizard did it. A wizard who lives by the shore.

That spooky bastard!

I've overcome my laziness, now it's your turn! :smallwink:


Speak for yourself. x3

Seriously though, thank you so much for all the help! Any more feats you come up with, post them! :smallsmile:

I'll do the same of course. xD

http://www.sendspace.com/file/cegau8

PId6
2009-09-11, 04:00 AM
Seriously though, thank you so much for all the help! Any more feats you come up with, post them! :smallsmile:
Of course! No problem! So when are you posting the complete epic rules? :smallbiggrin:

Myou
2009-09-11, 04:07 AM
Of course! No problem! So when are you posting the complete epic rules? :smallbiggrin:

Well, I suppose I could do that later today! I hope they don't suck. :smalleek:

I'd better give them one last look over before I do though.

Do you think I should expand this thread or make a new one?

PId6
2009-09-11, 06:33 PM
I'd say make a new one. This one is just about epic feat suggestions, which is somewhat different from the complete epic ruleset. You can still leave this thread open for new suggestions though.

Myou
2009-09-12, 04:12 AM
I'd say make a new one. This one is just about epic feat suggestions, which is somewhat different from the complete epic ruleset. You can still leave this thread open for new suggestions though.

Well, it's done! :smallsmile:

Navigator
2009-10-06, 06:40 PM
It's great to see someone that cares about the spirit of epic rules. I often play in epic games, and will be running one soon. That being said, I'm in the market for fixing anything I can in an elegant manner.

I'll warn you, I make no attempt to be nice in these critiques. Overall I think you are very good at making caster feats and would like to see more, but not so much with non-caster feats.

Armor Skin
As was stated in a previous post, I think this feat also giving a stacking 25% immunity to critical hit and sneak attacks is very good. With that, it drives a hard bargain for someone actually take.

Death of Enemies
It still seems a little unbalanced to me. A flat +2 to the critical multiplier isn't necessarily broken, but seems to be a little much. I'd like to see this replaced by something a little less powerful, but seen in play more often.

Blinding Speed
All day seems... a little much. Given something like a 10 minute non-consecutive duration might be better. When I first read this feat, I thought it was fine, but then I read Legendary Climber and thought, "Well, why don't we just give the character constant spider climb?"

Craft Epic Magic Items
This is full of win. Buying all of your crafting feats over again is super lame.

Damage Reduction
Can we but a stacking cap on this? I think 3 or 4 times would be fine. I just don't want a character running around with DR 40/- by level 30. Or maybe you can convince me that it's fine as is.

Dexterous Fortitude (and the like)
This idea is full of win, but I really don't see any reason to require a bunch of feats no one wants to take. I would suggest requiring a base save bonus of +13.

Efficient Item Creation
How would this stack? Do you craft an additional 10,000g/day or double your rate?

Energy Resistance
A good change, but I still don't think it's a viable choice for epic characters. Maybe make it 20 and only let it stack up to 4 times.

Amplify Spell
I'm not convinced that this metamagic is useful for anything other than limited wish. Can you give me 3 examples that would make me want to use my 10th-level+ spell slots on it?

Epic Summoning
To simplify things, can't we just have the feat grant the character summon monster X and above and write the spells?

Epic Animation
Same thing as Epic Summoning.

Spellstorm
Awesome. I'm going to be running an epic game soon and I'm definitely introducing this as written. However, I would like the wording to be more specific about overlapping area effects.

Combined Spell
I really like this as well.

Lasting Spell
I wouldn't take a meta-magic feat just so I don't have to cross off a spell for the day. Plus, if it gets dispelled, waiting 24 hours for the slot to come back is a huge drawback.

Universal Energy Substitution
Pretty cool, possibly even necessary for direct damage casters.

Overchannel
Horrible. No caster in their right mind would ever take or use this.

Spell Sculptor
The idea is really cool, but there are probably several instances where this meta-magic can break the game. I'm just not patient enough to find any.

Spellforge
Great idea, but requires too much DM fiat. You're better off just making new spells.

Raise Ward
This has great potential for creating challenges.

Epic Circle Magic
Requires a bunch of people you know to have Circle Magic. No one would ever take this, and if they did, I'm not totally convinced of it's usefulness. As I've said before, can you give me an example of how you see this feat being used in a practical way?

Epic (Save)
1. Does the +4 stack with the non-epic save feat?
2. I don't think anyone would actually take these feats.

Epic Leadership
Win.

Epic Reputation
No one would ever take this.

Epic Skill Focus
You may as well rename this "Epic Everyone Gets Use Magic Device".

Epic Speed
It doesn't really matter, but if you called the bonus an enhancement bonus, you would save on text space.

Epic Spell Focus
This should definitely be +2. I've played an epic caster that focused on having great DCs, and trust me, +2 still wouldn't be enough.

Epic Spell Penetration
Should be +4.

Epic Toughness
The problem here is, Improved Toughness will eventually be better, but making a feat give 2 hp per HD seems too much. So what's the result? We're victim of the system.

Epic Prowess, Epic Weapon Focus, Epic Weapon Specialization
All of these feats seem extraordinarily weak to me, even if you double the bonuses.

Fast Healing
See Damage Reduction comments.

Great Strength
I really like this, but I think you were too stringent with the stacking. Let characters stack it twice per 10 levels.

Improved Combat Casting
No. Casters should have a weakness.

Improved Combat Reflexes
I think this feat is a little too powerful when you introduce things like Robilar's Gambit and Karmic Strike into the game.

Improved Darkvision and Improved Low-Light Vision
Good idea, but unlimited worries me a little.

Improved Metamagic
I have huge problems with this feat. I did my own rewrite which I post below.

Improved Precision
The stacking restriction seems too stringent.

Superior Precision
Exactly one of the reasons why Improved Darkvision worries me. That and this is a bit extreme. Maybe make this an ability usable 3/day? 5/day?

Intuitive Trapfinding
Why was this decreased to 5 ft.?

Lingering Damage
I feel that the original text read the same way, but I'm happy to see you make it explicit.

Master of Devices
This is extremely hard to qualify for. I would knock down the Use Magic Device requirement to 12 ranks.

Free Spell
What was wrong with Multispell?

Overwhelming Critical
Too weak, even as an entry feat.

Penetrate Damage Reduction
Should be "all DR other than DR/- and DR/epic", otherwise it's too powerful.

Polymath
A really nice upgrade, but it needs a little more of a push to make it a desirable feat, like making all knowledge skills class skills.

Self-Concealment
Requiring Improved Evasion is a very hefty requirement. If it weren't for that, this would be a very selectable feat.

Superior Initiative
This needs to be +8 to make it selectable, especially with Improved Initiative as a requirement.

Dolorous Stroke
Too lop-sided. It'd be better to give the character a larger critical range.

Epic Blind-Fight and Energy Strike
Great write-ups. They're both going directly into my epic game.

Epic Cleave
Your heart is in the right place, but it's horrible. Having to announce your Epic Cleave attempt is exactly what kills it. It should be optionally triggered whenever you're able to cleave, and only once per round. Also, the second part of the text effectively allows you to get your attacks in a 30 ft. cone without cleaving at all, which is much more powerful than the original ability.

Epic Diehard
This is a good feat, but I feel like PCs are more than sufficiently equipped to deal with character death before epic levels. However, this would be an awesome feat for the DM to use. :smallcool:

Epic Finesse
Too weak to be an epic feat, too strong to be a non-epic feat. Suck. I mean, if you're an epic character, you will not need to take this feat if you've been successful for 20 levels previous.

Flexible
A logistical nightmare. The last thing on earth I want is another ability that takes 15 minutes for the PC to resolve.

Mobile Attack
Great idea, but I feel like the requirements need to be re-examined. Very few people take Mobility anymore, especially fighters.

Disguised Spell
Another awesome meta-magic feat. However, it has the side effect of completely bypassing costly material components, like for true seeing. Was this intentional?

Friendly Spell
I'm pretty sure there's a whole bunch of stuff that does this pre-epic if you wanted it that badly.

Immediate Spell
Great, but is +10 really necessary? Can we knock this down a little?

Layered Metamagic
Great. Instead of leaving it up to the players and DM, I would rather see a list of meta-magic feats that can be stacked with this feat.

Penetrating Spell
Especially in epic, this makes a ray spell weaker than it was. Very few monsters will fail a save in epic levels.

Reactive Spell
Awesome. I'm just afraid of the potentially broken uses.

Near Miss
This is awful. It introduces a metric tonne of meta-gaming for an ability that is exactly equivalent to a +2 bonus to AC.

Perception
Only someone that hates Rogues would write something like this. No offense if I'm wrong. :smallwink:

Zero-Range
Seems weak.

Epic Trip
Trip-locking someone is already ridiculously easy. Or maybe I'm wrong.

Agile Evasion
Avoiding one full attack every round is a little too powerful.

Masochistic Disarm
The stat requirements don't make a lot of sense. If you removed the stat requirements and imposed a -4 AC against attacks involving manufactured weapons until the ability is used, I'd like it.

Epic Grappler
There's already a feat that gives you +10. Unless I'm missing something, this feat only gives +4.

Release and your Archery feats
I personally wouldn't use these. The archery feats are a logistical nightmare, and Release isn't attractive to me at all because of the penalties.

The following feats should be, or are already non-epic feats.

Bonus Domain; this is, in fact, a non-epic feat
Combat Archery
Spectral Strike; in addition to being non-epic, it should mimic ghost touch
Spellcasting Harrier; there is already mageslayer, this just doesn't have the -4 to caster level
Spontaneous Domain Access; this is, in fact, a non-epic feat
Spontaneous Spell; I think the same ability is available though a Spell Mastery feat chain
Uncanny Accuracy; this is equivalent to the seeking ranged weapon quality
Quick Thinking; I think this is already a non-epic feat


Now that I critiqued your stuff, I'd appreciate your thoughts (and anyone else's) on these:

Great (Ability)

Benefit: The character’s (Ability) increases by 2 points. In addition, the character is considered to have a (Ability) score of 25 for the purposes of feat qualification.

Special: This feat can be taken twice after the character reaches 21st level, and twice for every ten further levels gained. Its effects stack.

Epic Resolve

Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +21, Str 25

Benefit: As a full-round action, the character may move at his/her full speed and completely ignore any mundane or magical effect that decreases his movement, including, but not limited to; black tentacles, ice storm, entangle, solid fog, difficult terrain, and any effect that creates difficult terrain. As part of this action, the character may attempt to burst through any wall effect, gaining a +10 bonus to the strength check, if it prevents or decreases movement, and leave a hole in his/her wake. However, this feat does not allow the character to break through force effects such as wall of force, forcecage, or resilient sphere.

Improved Meta-magic

Prerequisites: Any four meta-magic feats, ability to cast 10th-level spells

Benefit: Whenever a character prepares or spontaneously casts a spell affected by a meta-magic feat, he/she may decrease the total spell level adjustment by 1, to a minimum of a +1 adjustment per meta-magic feat application.

Myou
2009-10-07, 09:24 AM
thanks for your response! I'll use bold to save an endless string of quotes. :smallsmile:


It's great to see someone that cares about the spirit of epic rules. I often play in epic games, and will be running one soon. That being said, I'm in the market for fixing anything I can in an elegant manner.

I'll warn you, I make no attempt to be nice in these critiques. Overall I think you are very good at making caster feats and would like to see more, but not so much with non-caster feats.

Sadly, a lot of the caster feats are ones that I had help with, or that others came up with.

Armor Skin
As was stated in a previous post, I think this feat also giving a stacking 25% immunity to critical hit and sneak attacks is very good. With that, it drives a hard bargain for someone actually take.

So, it's fine as is?

Death of Enemies
It still seems a little unbalanced to me. A flat +2 to the critical multiplier isn't necessarily broken, but seems to be a little much. I'd like to see this replaced by something a little less powerful, but seen in play more often.

I'm a little confused, there is no Death of Enemies feat in the list. :smallconfused:
If you mean Overwhelming Critical, I can't say that it seems too powerful to me, but perhaps you mean another feat?

Blinding Speed
All day seems... a little much. Given something like a 10 minute non-consecutive duration might be better. When I first read this feat, I thought it was fine, but then I read Legendary Climber and thought, "Well, why don't we just give the character constant spider climb?"

Hmmm, well, I've added Epic Speed as a requirement, but limiting it like that is overkill. You can get the extra attack from Haste for a cheap enhancement, and this is an epic feat. What's the connection to Legendary Climber though?

Craft Epic Magic Items
This is full of win. Buying all of your crafting feats over again is super lame.

Thanks! One I made all by my self. x3

Damage Reduction
Can we but a stacking cap on this? I think 3 or 4 times would be fine. I just don't want a character running around with DR 40/- by level 30. Or maybe you can convince me that it's fine as is.

Well, if you spend all your non-class feats on DR then by level 30 you have DR 20/-. That's not even going to apply against magic, and you're spending all your feats on defence, so you don't get any of the epic offensive feats.

Dexterous Fortitude (and the like)
This idea is full of win, but I really don't see any reason to require a bunch of feats no one wants to take. I would suggest requiring a base save bonus of +13.

Well, it only require a single feat to take it. And with no prerequisite virtually everyone would take it.

Efficient Item Creation
How would this stack? Do you craft an additional 10,000g/day or double your rate?

Uh, neither, it's ten times faster. "Crafting a magic item requires one day per 10,000 gold of the item’s market price, with a minimum of one day."
Do you maybe have an older version of the feat list or something?

Energy Resistance
A good change, but I still don't think it's a viable choice for epic characters. Maybe make it 20 and only let it stack up to 4 times.

Ok, you mut have an older version, it's now Energy Immunity. ^^;

Amplify Spell
I'm not convinced that this metamagic is useful for anything other than limited wish. Can you give me 3 examples that would make me want to use my 10th-level+ spell slots on it?

Make spells limited by enemy HD less limited?
Make Wish copy 9th level spells?
Make a spell limited to a max CL do more damage?

Epic Summoning
To simplify things, can't we just have the feat grant the character summon monster X and above and write the spells?

But this works of thing other than summon monster too.

Epic Animation
Same thing as Epic Summoning.

Same answer? :smalltongue:

Spellstorm
Awesome. I'm going to be running an epic game soon and I'm definitely introducing this as written. However, I would like the wording to be more specific about overlapping area effects.

Oooh, thanks!
Not that I came up with it. ><
I'll say the areas can't overlap.

Combined Spell
I really like this as well.

Thanks, I think that might have been mine. ^^

Lasting Spell
I wouldn't take a meta-magic feat just so I don't have to cross off a spell for the day. Plus, if it gets dispelled, waiting 24 hours for the slot to come back is a huge drawback.

It's not one of mine, but I agree really, it's not good. Perhaps it should make the spell impossible to dispel?

Universal Energy Substitution
Pretty cool, possibly even necessary for direct damage casters.

Thanks. ^^

Overchannel
Horrible. No caster in their right mind would ever take or use this.

It's been removed since whatever version you have. ^^

Spell Sculptor
The idea is really cool, but there are probably several instances where this meta-magic can break the game. I'm just not patient enough to find any.

Well, if you figure any of them out let me know. :smallwink:

Spellforge
Great idea, but requires too much DM fiat. You're better off just making new spells.

Well, the only fiat is disallowing broken spells being combined, if that was removed, would it then be broken?

Raise Ward
This has great potential for creating challenges.

Sadly not one of mine. But most of the peic metamagic ones aren't.

Epic Circle Magic
Requires a bunch of people you know to have Circle Magic. No one would ever take this, and if they did, I'm not totally convinced of it's usefulness. As I've said before, can you give me an example of how you see this feat being used in a practical way?

Maybe it should just be removed?

Epic (Save)
1. Does the +4 stack with the non-epic save feat?
2. I don't think anyone would actually take these feats.

I think you have old versions of these. They make you not fail on nat. 1, pretty ueful I think, especially with feats to let you use that save in place of others.

Epic Leadership
Win.

Why thank you. ^^

Epic Reputation
No one would ever take this.

Maybe you have the old one? It gives you 10% off in shops that know you.

Epic Skill Focus
You may as well rename this "Epic Everyone Gets Use Magic Device".

Err, well, nothing wrong with that. XD

Epic Speed
It doesn't really matter, but if you called the bonus an enhancement bonus, you would save on text space.

Too lazy to rewrite it. XD

Epic Spell Focus
This should definitely be +2. I've played an epic caster that focused on having great DCs, and trust me, +2 still wouldn't be enough.

It's a scaling +2 in my version. ^^

Epic Spell Penetration
Should be +4.

In my version it's +6. xD

Epic Toughness
The problem here is, Improved Toughness will eventually be better, but making a feat give 2 hp per HD seems too much. So what's the result? We're victim of the system.

Well, 30hp isn't a lot really, it's just handy if you have a spare feat, and it gives immunity to massive damage.

Epic Prowess, Epic Weapon Focus, Epic Weapon Specialization
All of these feats seem extraordinarily weak to me, even if you double the bonuses.

They're all different now. ^^

Fast Healing
See Damage Reduction comments.

Actually, in most high level combats you can die in a single blow, or be other wise redered useless, so blowing all your feats to get +20 hp recovery a round, when you have about 400hp is not broken. xD

Great Strength
I really like this, but I think you were too stringent with the stacking. Let characters stack it twice per 10 levels.

Sadly whatever feat that was, it must have a new name now, I can't find it.

Improved Combat Casting
No. Casters should have a weakness.

That was not their weakness.

Improved Combat Reflexes
I think this feat is a little too powerful when you introduce things like Robilar's Gambit and Karmic Strike into the game.

It really really isn't - you'd have to fight a load of foes at once.

Improved Darkvision and Improved Low-Light Vision
Good idea, but unlimited worries me a little.

It's actually a weak feat even if it's unlimited, all it's allowing is normal vision when it's night.

Improved Metamagic
I have huge problems with this feat. I did my own rewrite which I post below.

I'll take a look when I get there. ^^

Improved Precision
The stacking restriction seems too stringent.

The current version is better. ^^

Superior Precision
Exactly one of the reasons why Improved Darkvision worries me. That and this is a bit extreme. Maybe make this an ability usable 3/day? 5/day?

You know that Dark/low light vision is still limited by how far you can actually see, right?

Intuitive Trapfinding
Why was this decreased to 5 ft.?

Currently 10ft. :3

Lingering Damage
I feel that the original text read the same way, but I'm happy to see you make it explicit.

Thakns. ^^

Master of Devices
This is extremely hard to qualify for. I would knock down the Use Magic Device requirement to 12 ranks.

Take the Epic Skill Focus feat. :3

Free Spell
What was wrong with Multispell?

That you can cast two quickened spells a round, and extras every time you take it?

Overwhelming Critical
Too weak, even as an entry feat.

Well, I think the version you have is old, because earlier you said +2 to crit multiplier was too good. xD

Penetrate Damage Reduction
Should be "all DR other than DR/- and DR/epic", otherwise it's too powerful.

Why?

Polymath
A really nice upgrade, but it needs a little more of a push to make it a desirable feat, like making all knowledge skills class skills.

Sadly again you have the old version.

Self-Concealment
Requiring Improved Evasion is a very hefty requirement. If it weren't for that, this would be a very selectable feat.

So, pretty balanced?

Superior Initiative
This needs to be +8 to make it selectable, especially with Improved Initiative as a requirement.

Old version again.

Dolorous Stroke
Too lop-sided. It'd be better to give the character a larger critical range.

Old again.

Epic Blind-Fight and Energy Strike
Great write-ups. They're both going directly into my epic game.

Why thank you! I just hope that the versions you like are the same as the current versions. XD

Epic Cleave
Your heart is in the right place, but it's horrible. Having to announce your Epic Cleave attempt is exactly what kills it. It should be optionally triggered whenever you're able to cleave, and only once per round. Also, the second part of the text effectively allows you to get your attacks in a 30 ft. cone without cleaving at all, which is much more powerful than the original ability.

Old version.

Epic Diehard
This is a good feat, but I feel like PCs are more than sufficiently equipped to deal with character death before epic levels. However, this would be an awesome feat for the DM to use. :smallcool:

Cool. ^^

Epic Finesse
Too weak to be an epic feat, too strong to be a non-epic feat. Suck. I mean, if you're an epic character, you will not need to take this feat if you've been successful for 20 levels previous.

Why, what's wrong with a nice big damage boost when you're TWFing?

Flexible
A logistical nightmare. The last thing on earth I want is another ability that takes 15 minutes for the PC to resolve.

Well, perhaps you have an old verison. All it does is swap two ability scores for a bit.

Mobile Attack
Great idea, but I feel like the requirements need to be re-examined. Very few people take Mobility anymore, especially fighters.

Given that this feat is incredible, I think they can put up with one dead feat to get it. XD

Disguised Spell
Another awesome meta-magic feat. However, it has the side effect of completely bypassing costly material components, like for true seeing. Was this intentional?

Oops! Fixed now.

Friendly Spell
I'm pretty sure there's a whole bunch of stuff that does this pre-epic if you wanted it that badly.

Well, I can think of the archmage ability, anything else? Maybe make the SLA cheaper?

Immediate Spell
Great, but is +10 really necessary? Can we knock this down a little?

Hmm, maybe +8 on rethinking it. Don't forget how powerful it is to be able to cast when it' not your turn.

Layered Metamagic
Great. Instead of leaving it up to the players and DM, I would rather see a list of meta-magic feats that can be stacked with this feat.

But any feat can be. o.o

Penetrating Spell
Especially in epic, this makes a ray spell weaker than it was. Very few monsters will fail a save in epic levels.

The initial target gets no save. I just noticed that in fact this spell is broken. Changing it now. XD

Reactive Spell
Awesome. I'm just afraid of the potentially broken uses.

It's Craft Contingent Spell toned but limited to ten rounds and costing higher level slots. XD

Near Miss
This is awful. It introduces a metric tonne of meta-gaming for an ability that is exactly equivalent to a +2 bonus to AC.

Different now anyway. XD

Perception
Only someone that hates Rogues would write something like this. No offense if I'm wrong. :smallwink:

I certainly don't hate rogues. o.o
They can still use dozens of ways to get SA damage, can't they?

Zero-Range
Seems weak.

Different now I think.

Epic Trip
Trip-locking someone is already ridiculously easy. Or maybe I'm wrong.

Trip-locking? You can't trip someone who's getting up without this.

Agile Evasion
Avoiding one full attack every round is a little too powerful.

Only if you beat the atack roll, and only if they already spent their move acton on something else.

Masochistic Disarm
The stat requirements don't make a lot of sense. If you removed the stat requirements and imposed a -4 AC against attacks involving manufactured weapons until the ability is used, I'd like it.

Maybe you're looking at an old version.

Epic Grappler
There's already a feat that gives you +10. Unless I'm missing something, this feat only gives +4.

This lets you grapple bigger creatures.

Release and your Archery feats
I personally wouldn't use these. The archery feats are a logistical nightmare, and Release isn't attractive to me at all because of the penalties.

Both very different now. xD

The following feats should be, or are already non-epic feats.

Bonus Domain; this is, in fact, a non-epic feat old ver.
Combat Archery old ver. I think, unless there's some feat I missed
Spectral Strike; in addition to being non-epic, it should mimic ghost touch old
Spellcasting Harrier; there is already mageslayer, this just doesn't have the -4 to caster level old
Spontaneous Domain Access; this is, in fact, a non-epic feat Oh, it is? Where from?
Spontaneous Spell; I think the same ability is available though a Spell Mastery feat chain A what? ^^;
Uncanny Accuracy; this is equivalent to the seeking ranged weapon quality Old ver. perhaps
Quick Thinking; I think this is already a non-epic featOld version I think, unles you know a feat I don't.


Now that I critiqued your stuff, I'd appreciate your thoughts (and anyone else's) on these:

Great (Ability)

Benefit: The character’s (Ability) increases by 2 points. In addition, the character is considered to have a (Ability) score of 25 for the purposes of feat qualification.

Special: This feat can be taken twice after the character reaches 21st level, and twice for every ten further levels gained. Its effects stack.

Too weak really, have a look at my current list for my versions.

Epic Resolve

Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +21, Str 25

Benefit: As a full-round action, the character may move at his/her full speed and completely ignore any mundane or magical effect that decreases his movement, including, but not limited to; black tentacles, ice storm, entangle, solid fog, difficult terrain, and any effect that creates difficult terrain. As part of this action, the character may attempt to burst through any wall effect, gaining a +10 bonus to the strength check, if it prevents or decreases movement, and leave a hole in his/her wake. However, this feat does not allow the character to break through force effects such as wall of force, forcecage, or resilient sphere.

Am I right in thinking that this lets you ignore Prismatic Spheres? XD
A bit too good I think.

Improved Meta-magic

Prerequisites: Any four meta-magic feats, ability to cast 10th-level spells

Benefit: Whenever a character prepares or spontaneously casts a spell affected by a meta-magic feat, he/she may decrease the total spell level adjustment by 1, to a minimum of a +1 adjustment per meta-magic feat application.

Isn't that already a feat? o.o

Thanks for the input! It's a shame you somehow got the old version!

New one up here; http://www.sendspace.com/file/vjaej1

Navigator
2009-10-07, 10:45 AM
Since you edited the OP, I can't know for sure, but I probably misunderstood that there were two different versions. In any case, I was definitely looking at the wrong one and will be back with comments.

Navigator
2009-10-07, 02:11 PM
Other than the gripes below, I think most of the changes are good. I've talked to another friend regarding the balance of some of these feats, and it occurred to me that its very hard to agree on a sense of balance for epic play. For example, I feel that the +2 to critical multiplier trend is unbalanced and would be better if replaced by an improved critical range. From the discussion thus far, I feel that I have a stricter sense of balance than you, which is not necessarily good or bad, just different. My friend that I consulted has an even stricter sense than I, but at the same time I can't say he doesn't have points (by the way, he also really liked Spellstorm).

I wish there was a more concrete way to discuss epic balance than go back and forth with feat write-ups, but it seems this is the best way to do it. The problem is this method can only identifies that two people have different philosophies of balance, with no clear way to reach an agreement.

My biggest concerns with epic feats are selectability and establishing a fresh feel. By selectability, I mean the likelihood that a character would desires to have the feat enough to spend an epic feat slot on it, but also have alternative choices that are just as interesting an desirable. By "fresh feel" I mean feats that go a step beyond pre-epic feats. Feats that allow a character not to automatically fail on a 1, roll their good save in place of another, and give them permanent spell effects is approximately what I mean.

I'd like to carry on this discussion with that in mind. As a side note, I am deliberately avoiding all the Bard, Monk, Barbarian, Archery, and Tome of Battle feats in large part because I have not played any of these, nor have I seen them played for any meaningful amount of time in my gaming circles.

Epic Spell Penetration
Giving the bonus to dispel checks is way too powerful, and is out of place. Plus, casters already have a functionality in place to increase the dispel bonus cap through meta-magic. Honestly, I think this feat is selectable just giving the +6 bonus, especially if they already have the requirements.

Improved (Ability)
+5 seems like a bit much, especially when the original feat was +1. I'm willing to accept that +5 may be the best solution, but I would like to see a lower number play-tested first.

Improved Precision and Energy Strike
I think Energy Strike was fine at a stacking +2d6. If you think in averages, this nets you 7 extra damage on every melee attack, which is better than Epic Weapon Specialization. Unless, of course,

If anything, Improved Precision should grant more or equal bonus dice, not less. It's harder to get sneak dice than energy damage dice (unless it's something like fire).

Reaping Whirlwind
This might be a but much. This feat effectively replaces full attacks forever.

Free Spell
Just make Multi-spell unstackable. I think this solution is preferable to making spells a free action, because introduces fewer mechanics. However, there is nothing fundamentally wrong with this, as my solution vs. yours seems to be only a matter of taste.

Polymath
First, what is Jack of all Trades? Second, this would cause a skill to become worse by putting a rank in it.

Self-Concealment
Did you consider making this 20% and then 50%? It seems more consistent with existing trends that way.

Ghost Buster
This is more of what I wanted from my earlier comments. While I have no comments at this point to make this stronger, this epic feat is equivalent to having a ghost touch weapon or a truedeath crystal, which makes it's selectability on the low side.

Spontaneous Domain Access and Spontaneous Spells
I'll find the resources that have these. I'm pretty sure Complete Divine has a feat called "Domain Spontaneity".

Tenacious Magic
I'll have more comments about this, but I think this needs to be compared to and balanced against Permanent Emanation. Which, by the way, doesn't seem to be included in your list.

Epic Blind-Fight
I like the old version of this feat a million times better. I think the blindsight ability is better suited to a different feat chain, because very few characters would ever qualify for this feat with the blindsight requirement.

Epic Cleave
I don't read this any differently from the original version.

Near Miss
I still don't like it. I don't think it's overpowered per se, but it's not consistent with anything in the rules, and I can only imagine telling one of my players to reroll their 20.

Cut the Air
I think a standalone feat that increased reach by 5 ft. is fine.

Counter Stance
I read this as a soft immunity to melee attacks. To me it seems too powerful, and makes no sense to not take if you're a melee character.

Crippling Blow
The slow effect really should have a save. In epic, a battle between melee characters would boil to having this feat and going first.

Agile Evasion
My problem with this is that increasing a skill check is arbitrary. As a 21st-level character, you can have a tumble check of +50 without trying very hard at all, and there's a good chance you're taking 10 on it.

Hide from the Mind
I liked the old version better. This one has too much meta-gaming.

Epic Grappler
Given your explanation for the old version, I think this is a great replacement for the +10 verison.

Myou
2009-10-08, 08:48 AM
Epic Spell Penetration
Giving the bonus to dispel checks is way too powerful, and is out of place. Plus, casters already have a functionality in place to increase the dispel bonus cap through meta-magic. Honestly, I think this feat is selectable just giving the +6 bonus, especially if they already have the requirements.

Actually if all it gives is +6 it's pretty weak, there's a spell to give +10, no feat reqired. There's almost no way I'd take this as a caster even as it is, it's only useful for certain builds. If I can either get +5 to my casting stat, or +6 to my CL only when dispelling I know which I'd choose.

Improved (Ability)
+5 seems like a bit much, especially when the original feat was +1. I'm willing to accept that +5 may be the best solution, but I would like to see a lower number play-tested first.

Well, if you wat to playtest a lower number and report back I'd be grateful, but I personally wouldn't even consider anything below +4, and +5 is a better number to work with.

Improved Precision and Energy Strike
I think Energy Strike was fine at a stacking +2d6. If you think in averages, this nets you 7 extra damage on every melee attack, which is better than Epic Weapon Specialization. Unless, of course,

If anything, Improved Precision should grant more or equal bonus dice, not less. It's harder to get sneak dice than energy damage dice (unless it's something like fire).

+2d6 energy damage at a level when even the fighter can get energy immunity at the drop of a hat is never going to be worth a feat, and that damage doesn't even get multiplied on a crit. :smalltongue:
Precision damage is harder to negate, and most precision damage classes will be built to optimise their precision damage dealing.

Reaping Whirlwind
This might be a but much. This feat effectively replaces full attacks forever.

The idea is that you can full attack multiple foes, but only if they're all in melee range. And it's at the end of a 6-feat chain. I will clarify no moving though, otherwise that could be abused.

Free Spell
Just make Multi-spell unstackable. I think this solution is preferable to making spells a free action, because introduces fewer mechanics. However, there is nothing fundamentally wrong with this, as my solution vs. yours seems to be only a matter of taste.

Mine tastes like strawberries. :smallsmile:

Polymath
First, what is Jack of all Trades? Second, this would cause a skill to become worse by putting a rank in it.

It's a feat. (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Jack_of_All_Trades)
And good save! Fixed I hope!

Self-Concealment
Did you consider making this 20% and then 50%? It seems more consistent with existing trends that way.

Hmm, well ok then. :3

Ghost Buster
This is more of what I wanted from my earlier comments. While I have no comments at this point to make this stronger, this epic feat is equivalent to having a ghost touch weapon or a truedeath crystal, which makes it's selectability on the low side.

Fair enough. ^^

Spontaneous Domain Access and Spontaneous Spells
I'll find the resources that have these. I'm pretty sure Complete Divine has a feat called "Domain Spontaneity".

The non-epic spontanious spell is only something like once a day as I recall.
Spontanious domain I thought was an alternate class feature, as the feat is from WotC's own epic rules. The only feat I know of comes care of Eldariel, who wrote: "There's also a Divine Feat named Domain Spontaneity [Complete Divine], which allows burning Turn Undead-uses to spontaneously convert Domain-spells. You need to take it once per each Domain you want to use it for though."

Tenacious Magic
I'll have more comments about this, but I think this needs to be compared to and balanced against Permanent Emanation. Which, by the way, doesn't seem to be included in your list.

Because it's too good or too bad?
Emanation is gone because it seemed like one of those feats only worth takig to use in rules abuse.

Epic Blind-Fight
I like the old version of this feat a million times better. I think the blindsight ability is better suited to a different feat chain, because very few characters would ever qualify for this feat with the blindsight requirement.

So, what would you do with it?

Epic Cleave
I don't read this any differently from the original version.

Well, your issue was that it's use had to be declared in advance. That's not the case any more.

Near Miss
I still don't like it. I don't think it's overpowered per se, but it's not consistent with anything in the rules, and I can only imagine telling one of my players to reroll their 20.

How is it inconsistent? And there are plenty of abilities to force rerolls already.

Cut the Air
I think a standalone feat that increased reach by 5 ft. is fine.

As opposed to requiring cleave? I prefer the requirement, it rewards you for taking feat chains.

Counter Stance
I read this as a soft immunity to melee attacks. To me it seems too powerful, and makes no sense to not take if you're a melee character.

If you miss it fails. If you prefer, perhaps it should only make the attack fail if the enemy attack roll is lower than your own?

Crippling Blow
The slow effect really should have a save. In epic, a battle between melee characters would boil to having this feat and going first.

First they have to get a crit, and all it does is slow you. Slow is a third level spell, so an epic feat slowing with no save, but only on a crit to only one target, doesn't seem that powerful to me. o.o

Agile Evasion
My problem with this is that increasing a skill check is arbitrary. As a 21st-level character, you can have a tumble check of +50 without trying very hard at all, and there's a good chance you're taking 10 on it.

Not in my games. I ban all items that boost skill checks, and it's a move in encourage all DMs to try. Besides, attack rolls of +50 won't be impossible at that level either.

Hide from the Mind
I liked the old version better. This one has too much meta-gaming.

I'm sorry, I don't follow.

Epic Grappler
Given your explanation for the old version, I think this is a great replacement for the +10 verison.

Oh, thanks. ^^

Thanks for the input!

Updated; http://www.sendspace.com/file/p9fk0j

Navigator
2009-10-13, 11:52 PM
Epic Resolve

Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +21, Str 25

Benefit: As a full-round action, the character may move at his/her full speed and completely ignore any mundane or magical effect that decreases his movement, including, but not limited to; black tentacles, ice storm, entangle, solid fog, difficult terrain, and any effect that creates difficult terrain. As part of this action, the character may attempt to burst through any wall effect, gaining a +10 bonus to the strength check, if it prevents or decreases movement, and leave a hole in his/her wake. However, this feat does not allow the character to break through force effects such as wall of force, forcecage, or resilient sphere.


Am I right in thinking that this lets you ignore Prismatic Spheres? XD
A bit too good I think.

Epic Resolve

Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +21, Str 25

Benefit: As a full-round action, the character may move at his/her full speed and completely ignore any mundane or magical effect that decreases his movement, including, but not limited to; black tentacles, ice storm, entangle, solid fog, difficult terrain, and any effect that creates difficult terrain. As part of this action, the character may attempt to burst through any wall effect, gaining a +10 bonus to the strength check, if it prevents or decreases movement, and leave a hole in his/her wake. Any effects the character would encounter in his movement that do not affect the character's movement speed are resolved normally, such as a wall of dispelling, prismatic wall, or cloudkill. This feat does not allow the character to break through force effects such as wall of force, forcecage, or resilient sphere.

Basically, I add a clause that forces effects like prismatic wall to resolve normally as long as the effect doesn't affect movement speed. The description for this feat is getting really dense, so if anyone has suggestions to make it clearer and more brief, or have any other comments, please share.

Navigator
2009-10-14, 12:07 AM
Regarding Energy Strike and Improved Precision

+2d6 energy damage at a level when even the fighter can get energy immunity at the drop of a hat is never going to be worth a feat, and that damage doesn't even get multiplied on a crit.
Precision damage is harder to negate, and most precision damage classes will be built to optimise their precision damage dealing.
Immunity to critical hits and sneak attacks is easily attainable through the heavy fortification enhancement. Not to mention, there are many non-NPC creatures that have immunity to several energy types as well as critical hits/sneak attacks. Even outside of blanket immunities, precision damage can still only be delivered in certain situations, which is not true of energy damage.

Epic Blind-fight
I would leave this simply as ignoring concealment, with the only requirement being Blind-fight. This is a great feat for anyone that regularly makes attack rolls, and is something I would seriously consider for any melee character in epic.

As for the current version with the requirement of blind-sight, I am not even sure how I would qualify (pragmatically) any character short of having blind-sight from a racial ability. I'm not saying its too good, really bad, or otherwise, just that it has very low selectability because of its requirements.



There are still a few things I'd like to discuss about a few other feats, but not until I find the time to do some homework. :smallbiggrin:

Myou
2009-10-16, 03:29 PM
Regarding Energy Strike and Improved Precision

Immunity to critical hits and sneak attacks is easily attainable through the heavy fortification enhancement. Not to mention, there are many non-NPC creatures that have immunity to several energy types as well as critical hits/sneak attacks. Even outside of blanket immunities, precision damage can still only be delivered in certain situations, which is not true of energy damage.

Hmmm, I suppose making them both 3d6 could work.


Epic Blind-fight
I would leave this simply as ignoring concealment, with the only requirement being Blind-fight. This is a great feat for anyone that regularly makes attack rolls, and is something I would seriously consider for any melee character in epic.

As for the current version with the requirement of blind-sight, I am not even sure how I would qualify (pragmatically) any character short of having blind-sight from a racial ability. I'm not saying its too good, really bad, or otherwise, just that it has very low selectability because of its requirements.

There are still a few things I'd like to discuss about a few other feats, but not until I find the time to do some homework. :smallbiggrin:

About blind fight, http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Blindsight%2C_5-ft._Radius :3

I look forward to hearing from you. ^^


Epic Resolve

Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +21, Str 25

Benefit: As a full-round action, the character may move at his/her full speed and completely ignore any mundane or magical effect that decreases his movement, including, but not limited to; black tentacles, ice storm, entangle, solid fog, difficult terrain, and any effect that creates difficult terrain. As part of this action, the character may attempt to burst through any wall effect, gaining a +10 bonus to the strength check, if it prevents or decreases movement, and leave a hole in his/her wake. Any effects the character would encounter in his movement that do not affect the character's movement speed are resolved normally, such as a wall of dispelling, prismatic wall, or cloudkill. This feat does not allow the character to break through force effects such as wall of force, forcecage, or resilient sphere.

Basically, I add a clause that forces effects like prismatic wall to resolve normally as long as the effect doesn't affect movement speed. The description for this feat is getting really dense, so if anyone has suggestions to make it clearer and more brief, or have any other comments, please share.

Well, you might want to clarify the use of the word wall, it's contradictory, but the feat look good. ^^

Eldariel
2009-10-30, 07:10 AM
Hm, I made a bunch for non-casters here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92986). Some of them are completely insane (it's simply meant to be a counterbalance for Epic Spellcasting & al.), but others seem quite fitting here.

Myou
2009-11-03, 11:01 AM
Hm, I made a bunch for non-casters here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92986). Some of them are completely insane (it's simply meant to be a counterbalance for Epic Spellcasting & al.), but others seem quite fitting here.

Oh, wow, I missed your post somehow! I'll have a look at those, thank you!