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shadow_archmagi
2009-08-25, 07:49 PM
Running Mindflayers.

Have decided to do it.

Tips?

Required Reading?

Party is currently level 6 and technically made up of some nine-ten people, but only 4-6 show up for any one game, due to timezones and such, so it's a normal sized party. Still, it means classes will vary so I can't plan an Eigan Plot.

Obviously, a direct confrontation is both completely un-mindflayerish and would probably slaughter them.

kjones
2009-08-25, 08:12 PM
First obvious question - are you using psionics in your campaign or not? I've done it without, and it works fine, but it's an important distinction.

shadow_archmagi
2009-08-25, 08:17 PM
First obvious question - are you using psionics in your campaign or not? I've done it without, and it works fine, but it's an important distinction.

I havn't actually used any psionics yet, as the players are new and heaping ANOTHER rules system on them seems like it might deter them a bit. I have nothing against psionics though, and have worked with it in the past.

Wings of Peace
2009-08-25, 08:19 PM
Lords of Madness is a big must I would say. It gives you alot of info on Illithids and a few other Aberrations. If you want to make a beast of a mind flayer I would also recommend the Illithid Savant prestige class from Savage Species.

Edit: Another big thing to remember. Illithid's grappling are -vicious-. Once you're grappled there's no save. If they get those tentacles on you it's goodbye brain. That is of course assuming they end up fighting in melee of course but as a gm it's a good cheap trick to remember they have.

Edit 2: How optimized will the party be? Illithid's have a number of different combat styles some cheaper and more ganktastic than others.

Alejandro
2009-08-25, 08:24 PM
Mind flayers are ruthlessly effective against characters with lower Will saves. My own character nearly died to one because it could keep stunning him, and then grappled him with its extremely good grapple. I only lived because it fumbled actually making the last grapple check to eat my brain (it rolled a 1) and someone else drove it away.

Be prepared for the players whose characters have lower Will saves basically getting stomped, unless they are really prepared or buffed.

kjones
2009-08-25, 08:26 PM
Ok, here's some things to keep in mind about Mind Flayers. (Ha!)
Any mind flayer worth its salt is going to open up with Mind Blast. DC 17 may not seem that high, but if you get hit with this, you're down for the count. You've got to be careful with it, since an AoE stun attack can quickly lead to a TPK.
Detect Thoughts makes them good ambushers, and Plane Shift is good for emergency getaways.
Obviously, they're very squishy, though Levitate does a good job of keeping them out of harm's way. For a party of 6th level characters, I'd recommend a single mind flayer with a couple of mind-controlled bodyguards.
For 6th level characters, be wary of sending them up against more than one mind flayer at a time. If you're looking for a more mind-flayer-y experience, have them fight mostly servants, with the mind flayers themselves serving as mini-bosses of a sort.


Overall, don't forget about their SLAs, and be careful. They're not CRed wrong, they can just be very dangerous when encountered on their terms... and they're good about being encountered on their terms.

FMArthur
2009-08-25, 08:28 PM
Even though it's CR 8, I wouldn't send it up against your players without meatshields backup. The numbers advantage is too large and you can only count on Wis-dumping fighter-types to consistantly fail the Mind Blast save. It has a chance of a TPK if too many are very unlucky in that save, though. Really, it's just another monster until you start having them pull devious tricks and mind game tactics. Illithids should be feared - they have a reputation to keep, so do them right.

Pie Guy
2009-08-25, 10:01 PM
If they all fail their saves- Illithids have servants, take them prisoner.

Zaq
2009-08-26, 02:37 AM
Remember that there is no such thing as a single Illithid. Illithids will always have the numbers on their side. They're frighteningly intelligent, so they're well aware of the fact that, powerful as they are, pain tends to hurt, so they're quite content to let thralls (and do they ever have thralls) do most of the dirty work while they stand in the back and add ranged support. At the very least, they travel in groups (arguably worse than single Illithid + thralls, really, just saying).

Basically what I'm saying is that a lone mind flayer is a stupid mind flayer, and with a printed INT of 19 and their fierce only-the-strong-survive mentality (checked by constant telepathic monitoring by the Elder Brain, I should add), there's really not too many stupid mind flayers out there. That's what makes Illithids on the under-CR'd side of the scale... the fact that you'll never find them alone. Ever.

shadow_archmagi
2009-08-26, 07:24 AM
So, Lords Of Madness states that restoration can heal the INT-WIS-CHA damage caused by having a flayer larva eating your brain, but won't actually repel the larva.

This gives me an idea.

Cadwy The Mad. A mage whose ambition overshadowed his facial protections, and now finds himself infested by a flayer larva. Somehow, he managed to get ahold of an *insert item* of restoration. He is kept in a constant state of agony as his brain is torn to shreds and then, just at the brink of death, healed again.

Cadwy's sanity doesn't last long, and he quickly arouses attention. He leaves destruction in his wake, and flees into the overly large fantasy sewer systems. (The sewer systems are, in fact, the ancient and abandoned lair of a powerful mindflayer cult. People just starting crapping into it because it seemed the appropriate gesture.)

The players are hired to hunt down this rogue mage and stop his madness. Via *insert sidequest* they can learn that the *insert item* is the secret to his survival. Whether they just stab him or destroy the item is irrelevant. They leave the twitching corpse thinking it's a job well done.

A few days later, the transformation is complete.

kjones
2009-08-26, 07:35 AM
Ooh, that's good. Afterwards, does he crawl back out of the sewers to wreak havoc, or do they have to go in after him?

shadow_archmagi
2009-08-26, 07:52 AM
Ooh, that's good. Afterwards, does he crawl back out of the sewers to wreak havoc, or do they have to go in after him?

Cadwy's comrades will promise the PCs a custom magical item in return for ending the misery of their friend. They'll head into the sewers to pay their last respects and study their buddy's last works while they craft it.

This puts them into a terrific position to be slaughtered, and since they owe the PCs money, the PCs will be very interested in maintaining communications. That way, when they DO go missing, the PCs instantly care.

This then gives us a terrific chance to spread empty-headed corpses around the sewers, making the PCs wonder just what is going on (they are newbs and will not have encountered mind flayers. Most likely, they'll assume shambling, unintelligent zombies.)

I'm still wondering on how to tie this into my Arch Arc (I've decided in my campaign world, there are various Arches which act as permanent portals to other planes, providing infinite supplies of water, fire, etc. They used to be kept track of and well guarded, but then ???SPOOKY CATACLYSM??? left them buried and forgotten. The only remnant they ever existed is the title of the guardians, Arch-Mage. And the fact that they still exist. The most visible one is the Arch that connects to the Plane Of Light, which was fired into orbit.).

I'm thinking poor Cadwy gets his leech from a Brain Jar, since it makes sense for a Mind Flayer who couldn't reach the Elder Brain to store his young in a magic jar, and it makes sense for a curious mage to go prying open ancient pottery.

The Mind Flayer is definately a one-of-a-kind enemy, though, barring that the PCs by some stroke of luck actually kill him. He'll eventually be promoted to Lich. Then he'll compete with the necromancer artificer genocidal gnome the PCs have already run into, and we'll see which one gets to set up on ???SECRET VOLCANO FORTRESS???? Island and be the BBEG for the entire campaign.

Cyclocone
2009-08-26, 07:52 AM
The players are hired to hunt down this rogue mage and stop his madness. Via *insert sidequest* they can learn that the *insert item* is the secret to his survival. Whether they just stab him or destroy the item is irrelevant. They leave the twitching corpse thinking it's a job well done.

A few days later, the transformation is complete.

I dunno.:smallconfused: If he's a mage, and his biological functions are being constantly assaulted, wouldent he logically be thinking about lichdom?

+1 on LoM being a must-read for this thing. I'd also use the psionic illithid a look, the customizable powers-known gives some better options for versatility. You also don't really have to make the players familiar with psionics just to use it here -illithids are supposed to be alien and enigmatic after all.:smallwink:


My own character nearly died to one because it could keep stunning him, and then grappled him with its extremely good grapple. I only lived because it fumbled actually making the last grapple check to eat my brain (it rolled a 1) and someone else drove it away.

Yeah, that happened to me once too, except the fumble ment it decerebrated itself instead, go figure.:smallsigh:

shadow_archmagi
2009-08-26, 07:56 AM
logically

Logic is hard when your brain is being eaten constantly for weeks. Remember, the larva doesn't do anything to the rest of the body until after it's finished the mind. He'd just experience extreme head pain (actually it occurs to me the brain has no nerves. I guess the larva might increase pressure, or scrape the edges with it's teeth from time to time. So not such an EXTREME head pain) and gradually decay into gibbering idiot before springing back to his usual self, and then decaying again.

Plus, Lichdom requires CL 13, which means that a caster intended to fight a 6th level party is not going to anywhere near strong enough or clever enough to qualify, even at the best of times.

Darwin
2009-08-26, 08:08 AM
There is a template somewhere called Voidmind that, when put on a creature allows a mind flayer to channel his powers through it, in addtion to growing a neat tentaclefrom their backs. Slap it on a few grimlocks (I even think that's what they give as an example, fully statted out) and your Mind Flayer is ready to go to town :smallamused:

Cieyrin
2009-08-26, 10:26 AM
There is a template somewhere called Voidmind that, when put on a creature allows a mind flayer to channel his powers through it, in addtion to growing a neat tentaclefrom their backs. Slap it on a few grimlocks (I even think that's what they give as an example, fully statted out) and your Mind Flayer is ready to go to town :smallamused:

The only issue there with the current Mage-turning-Illithid is that Grimlocks are attached to the Illithid community at large, which the Mage is not connected to. By the sounds of it, any Illithid civilization that was around has packed its bag and left, leaving this remnant, so I doubt there being a Grimlock community about, as it's kinda too close to the surface for them.

@shadow_archmagi: As for the Lich bit, there's a Illithid-specific version of the Lich you may want to look into, provided the Illithid to be makes it that far, called the Alhoon. I think it's in MM3 or 4, so that's definitely something to look into to make him even more terrifying. Also reading some Savage Species would be in line for making the Illithid that much more terrifying, if not just for the Illithid Savant, then some of the items in there as well.

Them's my 2 coppers. Take as you will.

Cyclocone
2009-08-26, 10:53 AM
Plus, Lichdom requires CL 13

CL 11 actually. Still too much for lvl 6 though, i'll give you that.:smallamused:

Voidmind is here (http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Templates.pdf) i belive.

If you need ideas, maybe read Iolaums history as well? (He's in LEoF).

shadow_archmagi
2009-08-26, 03:55 PM
Ooooh, voidmind. I really like the idea of the mind flayer "infesting" random people and never really appearing in combat except via mind-controlled slaves.