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Jastermereel
2009-08-26, 04:18 PM
I'm looking to build a trickster to drive my players mad.

In an upcoming campaign I'll be running, I'm hoping to incorporate a recurring character that'll drive them a little crazy. He isn't meant to be a BBEG, though he likely works for him.

Basically, the idea is to have him periodically drop in, make some trouble, and disappear. Early on he might Daze the person on watch for the night, throw a bucket of tallow at their supplies and disappear as a bear he'd angered charges in. If the players aim to sneak about at some point, he might drop in behind them with a tanglefoot bag and a horn.

I'm thinking somewhere between a looney-toon's zany hijinks, and the joker's laughing menace. So far I'm thinking of a mix of levels including Rogue, Factotum, Telflammar Shadowlord (Unapproachable East) and Jaunter (Expedition to the Demonweb Pits) for teleportation.

That said, I don't have much experience with this sort of thing and suspect many out there have run into or created a nuisance like this and might have good advice as to the build and the encounters.

Giants! I beseech you! Bestow your knowledge and experience upon me!

Cyrion
2009-08-26, 04:29 PM
I'd think you'd want at least a couple of levels of wizard or sorcerer in there somewhere. Prestidigitation, unseen servant, silent image, mage hand, rope trick, etc. are all excellent low level options for being a nuisance without being far beyond the party's level if you're starting out at low level. You could have a lot of fun with a magic mouth when the party's trying to be sneaky...

Jastermereel
2009-08-26, 04:34 PM
I'd think you'd want at least a couple of levels of wizard or sorcerer in there somewhere. Prestidigitation, unseen servant, silent image, mage hand, rope trick, etc. are all excellent low level options for being a nuisance without being far beyond the party's level if you're starting out at low level. You could have a lot of fun with a magic mouth when the party's trying to be sneaky...

Agreed, but I figured low level magic could be supplied by magical device. If he works for a BBEG, he should have access to that sort of tool cabinet. Tanglefoot bags and scrolls aren't that expensive and are just the sort of thing he'd likely indulge in.

If he wanted, he could very likely squash them, but he prefers being a nuisance to an executioner. Thus, I figure I can push his true CR beyond the player's general reach, but reward them with some interesting loot if they outwit him.

Crow
2009-08-26, 04:48 PM
If he wanted, he could very likely squash them, but he prefers being a nuisance to an executioner. Thus, I figure I can push his true CR beyond the player's general reach, but reward them with some interesting loot if they outwit him.

I'd be careful with this. Somehow your players are going to corner this guy and force a fight. If he can't be squashed then it really makes it look like you're throwing DMPC material at them.

Maybe make him a little less powerful than the individual players, but make up for it with the tricks and wit?

Jastermereel
2009-08-26, 04:52 PM
I'd be careful with this. Somehow your players are going to corner this guy and force a fight. If he can't be squashed then it really makes it look like you're throwing DMPC material at them.

Maybe make him a little less powerful than the individual players, but make up for it with the tricks and wit?

Fair point. While they haven't been particularly resourceful in the last campaign (different DM), I should expect the unexpected from them, especially once they really start to hate him.

Why have him be less powerful than individual players? Wouldn't it be enough to have him be around their challenge level (or above)?

Part of the leveling scheme was developed as an escape-route / means of long-distance scouting. Any suggestions as to how to replace those abilities at lower levels?

Zaq
2009-08-26, 05:31 PM
Swordsage. Definitely swordsage. Shadow Hand maneuvers can let him sneak up unseen or maddeningly pop away, and the Diamond Mind save-replacements will stop the party from one-shotting him with a Save or Die. 6+INT skill points per level will give you plenty to play around with, as well.

thegurullamen
2009-08-26, 05:32 PM
Find the Joker Bard guide on the forum and read it. It is exactly what you need.

Draz74
2009-08-26, 05:33 PM
Agreed, but I figured low level magic could be supplied by magical device.

Or again, by Factotum levels. Arcane Dilettante is there for a reason. :smallcool:

shadow_archmagi
2009-08-26, 05:47 PM
Defenstrating sphere!

It is a sphere.

It throws people out of windows.

What more do you want?

Thurbane
2009-08-26, 09:09 PM
Beguiler (PHB II) or Jester (DC) sound like just the ticket.

Steward
2009-08-26, 09:11 PM
If you want to make him like a Myxzptlk or a Coyote type trickster (more or less omnipotent, but only uses his powers for trifling purposes) you could give him some divine ranks. But it might not work for a servant of a bad guy. I really do recommend ratcheting up his bluff and sense motive skills to avoid him being found out too quickly.

Kallisti
2009-08-26, 09:27 PM
Find the Joker Bard guide on the forum and read it. It is exactly what you need.

Yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Yes.

Find Shneeky the lost's Joker Bard guide. The villain's already built (I think), but you can just take the same principles and ideas. The Joker Bard presented there is capable of being anything between a nuisance and a terrible menace from levels 1-20. He's specifically focused on being able to cause problems for the Batman Wizard, even with the former in full paranoia mode.

One especially fiendish plot to get around foresight rocked my socks: Take some expensive MacGuffin the players (and therefore Batman) will need, and put it in the Outlands, somewhere where up to eighth-level spells are supressed. Before moving it there, make it the trigger object for a Trap the Soul. When Batman approaches, his Foresight is silent because it warns only of impending danger. When he tries to move to a new area, his Foresight goes, "Danger, Will Robinson! Danger! Danger!" But Batman sees no threats. After this goes on for a while, he leaves despite Foresight's warnings. Boom! No save, no SR, just Trap the Soul.

That's not the worst bit, though. After that, the Joker sends the rest of the PC's a message telling them he has the MacGuffin...and Batman's soul, and to meet him to negotiate. They show up for the negotiations, and the Joker says, "This? You want this? And the soul released? Here, have both." And he releases Batman's soul and puts down the MacGuffin. Because it says in the text of Trap the Soul that "If the trapped creature is a powerful creature from another plane it can be required to perform a service immediately upon being freed." Batman is a powerful creature, and these are the outlands, to which he is not native. The Joker gets to make one command, which Batman must follow. The possibilities are endless...

It was genius, and it would work on a 20-th level cheesed-out Batman wizard.

Use a Joker bard. Besides, your PC's will never believe that a bard has casued them this much trouble. Bards are underpwered, right? ...right?

Jastermereel
2009-08-26, 10:44 PM
All the suggestions are interesting, but perhaps too involved.

The guy is meant to be a minor nuisance, a recurring one that gets in their hair and drives them crazy, but not their focus. He works for the grand crafter of schemes, but he himself is just a malicious prankster. The Joker Bard would be phenominal as a foe in a higher level game, but these players aren't optimized and wouldn't think along lines that the Joker Bard could use.

And I mean it with them not being optimized. It's mostly a melee party (barb, fighter, rogue) with the primary caster, for the moment, being a bard (yeah, you heard me). The fighter is thinking of multi-classing to wizard after 3rd or so (yeah, you heard right).

So far, I'm really liking the Factotum suggestions for the versatility. Swordsage sounds fun (I liked dabbling in it in my last game) but might be too powerful compared to how the players are aiming and Jester (took some work to figure out where that came from) sounds interesting, but attracts too much attention. If he had support, it might be OK, but he should be working largely alone. Ideally, he'd stay out of combat as much as he can. Jump in, cause some trouble for the players, and, before he gets stuck, jump out cackling like a madman; That's his MO.

If confronted with a sleeping player he'd be more likely to spray him with Owlbear musk than to stick a dagger in him. He's not a loony-toon, but if you can't picture him holding a carrot asking "ain't I a stinker?", he's doing something wrong.

As we edge into higher levels, the player's may start getting in over their head. In the mean time, this guy could serve to toughen the players up and make the characters a little more street-wise. A playful, but not quite lethal foe might get the players to prepare for the next fight with him in mind, or to think a little more tactically. Otherwise, they won't stand a chance when the going gets tough.

Dragon Elite
2009-08-26, 10:53 PM
Put marbles in their beds and the room they sleep in. They will be fatigued and have to make balance check up the wazoo.

ericgrau
2009-08-27, 12:06 AM
Steal a possession or minor body part (hair, nails, etc.) from the PCs. Use those to scry (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/scrying.htm) and nightmare (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/nightmare.htm) them like crazy. Both are bard spells, btw, not just wizard. Bards also have the sneaky skills and sleight of hand. Nightmare is an easy way to shut down casters that don't prep for it.

Then send grappling monks at them, preferably large creatures or humanoids with potions of enlarge person. The party melee guys might still beat their grapple checks most of the time, but they'll be doing real damage while the PCs won't. And if they try to escape the grapple you can re-engage as an attack action and use the rest of your attacks for grapple damage. Or re-engage as an AoO if they try to move away. You can also try using a disarming fighter and have the monks pick up the PC weapons and run off with them. Now the PCs have a reason to chase the annoying buggers.

Then if the enemies get in trouble have them run away at their greater speed. Use haste for the bards if needed, or use a small race that the monks can pick up. Have still grease ready in case the PCs try to counter grapple and hold them. Harass your players to no end about how they're getting neutralized by bard(s) and monk(s) (and maybe fighter(s)).

Lyavel "Arashi"
2009-08-27, 02:26 AM
The guy is meant to be a minor nuisance, a recurring one that gets in their hair and drives them crazy, but not their focus.

Be careful with this. I too decided to create a trickster/jester-type enemy as more of a minor nuissance than anything, and after one encounter, they decided he was thier main target and began to hunt him down. The wizard in the party spends each night trying to scry on him. It's dificult to dictate how your players will react to such a character, so prepare for anything.
As for how you can do it. My suggestion, as what I did, is to go sorcerer. You get lots of spells per day, that you can use for teleportation and illusion spells mostly, to create tricks. Magic items are also great. look them up cause there are lots that would be perfect for a trickster.:smallbiggrin:

Good luck and have fun!

Kurald Galain
2009-08-27, 05:08 AM
I'm looking to build a trickster to drive my players mad.

I made one of those once, as an Arcane Trickster, who would teleport all over the place, sneak attack a few times, then disappear again. It was a lot of fun. I recommend a high stealth skill, some immediate action spells from PHB2 (and/or Abrupt Jaunt), and maybe a level in Warlock to grab the shatter-at-will invocation.

Beguiler also works well - they have both the skills and a good tricky spell list. Don't forget to cast Charm Person on your PCs!