Castle Seige??

[Lyavel "Arashi"]

Okay, so I'm DMing this game and I want to think up cool stuff for my players, instead of sticking to the classic combat. One particular scenario I have in mind is a castle seige where the players must try to help an army breach the wall and get inside. The battlefield is clearly larger than we would be able to represent all at once, and there will be lots of enemies and allies. So my question is "How do I go about organizing this, so that it doesn't get too complicated for the players?" (and for me!:smalleek:)

[Jade_Tarem]

Two questions:

1) What level are the players?
2) How hard do you want to make this?

[Irreverent Fool]

Heroes of Battle may have the answers you are looking for. Most of it is really in the description with a couple of encounters with massed formations -- which the heroes can blow through because they are the Big Damn Heroes. (Or not. It's your world.) Don't get caught up in rolling for the battles going on in the background. If it doesn't directly involve the PCs, there's no interest on any side in rolling it all out. If you want them to feel that there is some randomness, roll dice behind the screen and call out the results. Narrate.

You seem to have what you want to happen down. It's just a matter of elaboration.

If you actually want siege combat, I recommend finding another ruleset and using it for the siege part. D&D doesn't handle it particularly well.

obnoxious
sig

[Lyavel "Arashi"]

Two questions:

1) What level are the players?
2) How hard do you want to make this?

The players are level 9 at the moment, but it won't be right away, so they may be level 10 or so by the time of the seige. I want it to be challanging, with the enemy in the castle using tactics, so the players have to be strategic too.

Of course, there will be ally soldiers, and MAYBE a few iron golems (long story) on thier side, so I wanna make sure it's not too easy, especially since some of my players really like challenges. (I sent them against a CR 14 when they were level 8, so they can handle a challenge alright) but I don't want it to be so hard that they get bogged down and wanna give up either.

[AslanCross]

Heroes of Battle may have the answers you are looking for. Most of it is really in the description with a couple of encounters with massed formations -- which the heroes can blow through because they are the Big Damn Heroes. (Or not. It's your world.) Don't get caught up in rolling for the battles going on in the background. If it doesn't directly involve the PCs, there's no interest on any side in rolling it all out. If you want them to feel that there is some randomness, roll dice behind the screen and call out the results. Narrate.

You seem to have what you want to happen down. It's just a matter of elaboration.

If you actually want siege combat, I recommend finding another ruleset and using it for the siege part. D&D doesn't handle it particularly well.

obnoxious
sig
This.

Heroes of Battle's basic premise is having the PCs take important missions (take out the trebuchet that's destroying the wall, kill the dragon that's scattering the troops, kill the goblin supply train) that award them with Victory Points, which determine the course of the overall battle.

Heroes of Battle has rules for arrow volleys and heavy siege engines (the Heavy Trebuchet is a monster), which allow groups of grunt warriors to actually be a threat to PCs and not be unnecessary burdens on Initiative lists hundreds of characters long.

The Red Hand of Doom adventure has a very good example of a "defend this city" battle that uses the Victory Point framework. The PCs don't need to bog themselves down with the minutiae of logistics and troop movements, but killing enemy commanders and defending critical points gives them victory points that swing the course of the battle. The city siege ends with an epic battle against the general who personally goes for the defenders' leaders in a decapitation strike.

For the most part the siege will last as long as you want it to. If it's really meant to starve out the defenders, then it will take a while. However, waiting around while horse corpses are being thrown over the wall is not exactly fun, so the siege will likely progress faster than real sieges---mostly only until the enemy wizards or artillery can breach the wall.


The players are level 9 at the moment, but it won't be right away, so they may be level 10 or so by the time of the seige. I want it to be challanging, with the enemy in the castle using tactics, so the players have to be strategic too.

Of course, there will be ally soldiers, and MAYBE a few iron golems (long story) on thier side, so I wanna make sure it's not too easy, especially since some of my players really like challenges. (I sent them against a CR 14 when they were level 8, so they can handle a challenge alright) but I don't want it to be so hard that they get bogged down and wanna give up either.

Not all encounters of the same level are created equal; a lone 10th-level fighter vs 4 Lv 5 PCs is much easier than a CR 10 Red Dragon. I've had my players (5 6th level characters) take down a lone Lv 11 Warblade in less than 3 rounds. Be careful with CR as it is hardly ever exact.

[Farlion]

I also used the castle siege scenario in my campaign (and I plan to use it again) and my players really liked it.

First off, it was much deadlier then I imagined...

Defending a castle is downright sadistic. Unless the enemy has siege weapons (i.e. catapults) or magic to tear down the walls, it's almost impossible to gain access to a castle with even a two to three times larger army.

Now if you want to plan the scenario, start off imagining, how you would defend the castle, if it was yours.

examples:

- pour burning pitch from the walls
- have arrow slits made in the right position
- drawbridge and portcullis
- once they get inside, have your men stay out of range on the walls, shooting into the castle yard
- maybe some ballistas on the main towers
- tons of archers on the walls (i.e. store enough arrows)
- try to have as much water/supplies INSIDE the castle to last for some time

and so forth.

Then, when all this is planned, hand it over to the players to decide what to do next.

I narrated most of the siege (i.e. battles between NPCs) and only rolled dice when PCs were doing something.

Try to have your PCs do something special. Just being part of the army will not be satisfying.

For example: My PCs task was to disable the portcullis so that the main force would be able to enter the castle. The other half of the PCs had the task to infiltrate the castle and slay the guards currently on duty and take their place in order to prevent or at least delay alarm.

Yeah, thats about it ;-D

Cheers,
Farlion

[Shademan]

what all of the above said.
SPECIAL MISSIONS.
sneaking trough the sewer system, get inside and open the gate is a favorite of mine...

[UnChosenOne]

I gona too say that PC's should have special missions like: "assasinating the important (high level wizard, lord of the keep, captain of the guard) target" or act as saboteurs.

[Johel]

Does the party rely heavily on magic ?
If yes, make sure the guarrison get a few spellcasters itself.

And yes, Special Ops is the way to go for the PCs.

[Sploosh]

Hey there,

I'm a player from the game being discussed and our group is composed of a level 9 generalist mage who insists upon using core only despite the game being balanced around all books and who inists on fireballing the monsters even if we're on top of them, a ranger/modified witchhunter who instead works against mages, a priest who only uses healing spells and refuses to look at other possible selecitons, a DMNPC ranger who focuses on demons and myself, a rogue2/swashbuckler3/nightsongenforcer1/swordsage1/assassin 2 sneak attacker.

So our only caster is a mage who won't sway from core and he isn't the most brilliant tactician.

[Triaxx]

Depends a lot on the party. Lots of stealth characters? Give them the opportunity to climb the walls, kill the sentries, and lower the gates themselves to let the army in.

Big strong fighter types? Cut a path to the door for the Wizards to blow it down and let in the army.

Wizards? Huff and puff, and blow the castle down around their ears.