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Gralamin
2009-08-27, 01:53 PM
Note: This variant causes players that start at level 2 or 3 to have less loot then normal.

Disclaimer: I like the simplicity of the 4e WBL system, since it allows quick character creation. However, at the same time a character who actually accumulates loot from adventurers will have a much greater amount of loot overall. This Variant therefore allows more in depth treasure spending.

The following table contains character level; WBL according to Item+1, Item, Item-1, Gold of Item-1; And how much loot a character will of accumulated by that level (Per character, based on 5 people).

{table=head]Level|GP Value by WBL|GP Value by Loot
1|100|100
2|1,920|852
3|2,560|1,924
4|3,200|3,443
5|4,480|5,539
6|6,400|8,339
7|9,600|12,099
8|12,800|17,459
9|16,000|25,059
10|22,400|35,539
11|32,000|49,539
12|48,000|68,339
13|64,000|95,139
14|80,000|133,139
15|112,000|185,539
16|160,000|255,539
17|240,000|349,539
18|320,000|483,539
19|400,000|673,539
20|560,000|935,539
21|800,000|1,285,539
22|1,200,000|1,755,539
23|1,600,000|2,425,539
24|2,000,000|3,375,539
25|2,800,000|4,685,539
26|4,000,000|6,435,539
27|6,000,000|8,785,539
28|8,000,000|11,635,539
29|10,000,000|14,885,539
30|11,500,000|18,435,539[/table]

There is a rather huge deficient in gear at higher levels, and this variant will attempt to fix this.

New WBL Chart
This Chart is based off of a composite of Yakk's math below, and the chart above.

{table=head]Level|GP of Loot
1|100
2|750
3|1,750
4|3,000
5|5,000
6|7,500
7|11,000
8|15,000
9|19,000
10|23,000
11|41,000
12|60,000
13|78,000
14|95,000
15|115,000
16|200,000
17|300,000
18|390,000
19|480,000
20|575,000
21|1,030,000
22|1,500,000
23|2,000,000
24|2,300,000
25|2,800,000
26|5,200,000
27|7,500,000
28|9,800,000
29|12,000,000
30|14,500,000
[/table]

When using this table, a player may not buy an Item of a level greater than their level +2. A Player should consider to at least get a Neck slot item, an Armor, and a Weapon.

Sub Variant: Maximum Amount of Items by Level
This Sub-Variant is best used if the group decides to figure out who has what together.
For a full 5 person group, The entire group may have no more of an item of a specific level then:

Number available for the group = -(Item Level - Character Level) + 4
or
Number available for the group = Character Level - Item Level + 4
So no-one may start with an item of your level +4, One person may start with an item of your level +3, Two may start with items of your level +2, three may start with items of your level +1, etc.

AgentPaper
2009-08-27, 02:45 PM
Number available for the group = -(Character Level - Item Level) + 4

Simplified, this becomes:

Number available for the group = - Character Level + Item Level + 4

Which does the opposite of what you want. (you can have lots of items above your level, but items below your level are severely restricted) Instead, it should be:

Number available for the group = Character Level - Item Level + 4

Though really, it might be easier to just say: you can have one item up to three levels above the party level, two items two levels above, three items one level above, and so on.

Gralamin
2009-08-27, 03:02 PM
Number available for the group = -(Character Level - Item Level) + 4

Simplified, this becomes:

Number available for the group = - Character Level + Item Level + 4

Which does the opposite of what you want. (you can have lots of items above your level, but items below your level are severely restricted) Instead, it should be:

Number available for the group = Character Level - Item Level + 4

Though really, it might be easier to just say: you can have one item up to three levels above the party level, two items two levels above, three items one level above, and so on.

I was about to fix that when my internet decided to die. Fixing now.

AgentPaper
2009-08-27, 03:23 PM
It's still overly complicated. Why have the parentheses? This:

Number available for the group = Character Level - Item Level + 4

does the same thing, without making the players remember order of operations and such.

Yakk
2009-08-27, 03:34 PM
Let's assume a party sells off every magic item they got 5 or more levels ago, or recrafts it into a new magic item.

Then a party of 5 characters will have to split among them:
L-3 * 1
L-2 * 2
L-1 *3
L+0 *4
L+1 *3
L+2 *2
L+3 *1

We'll assume that much of the other items ended up being obsolete and upgraded, thus going through a resale.

On top of this they have a source of cash.

They have cash equal to:
L-1 *2
L-2 *2
L-3 *2
etc.

As it happens, the value of magic items is about 5^(L/5) * 200, to a first approximation. (Yes, I know this underestimates it by up to 30%).

This works out to ... about the value of a magic item 1 level under the character's level per party member!

Now, what about the cash they got from sold magic items?

Well, at a given level, selling every magic item you find ends up earning you:
(5^.2 + 5^.4 + 5^.6 + 5^.8)/5
times the value of an even-level magic item, or about twice the value of an even level magic item! Ie, nearly identical to your cash treasure.

As we kept all magic items we got, other than those 5 or more levels under the party, we end up with:
(5^-1.0 + 5^-1.2 + 5^-1.4 + 5^-1.6 + ...) * 2* value of even level magic item
as our 'sold item' total. This comes to:
.4 * even level magic item * (1/(1-5^-.2))
=~ 1.5 * even level magic item
Now divide by 5 for each party member's share, and it comes to .3 times the value of an even-level magic item.

Now let's look at the full value of the items we kept:
L-3 * 1
L-2 * 2
L-1 *3
L+0 *4
L+1 *3
L+2 *2
L+3 *1

As a multiplier on the value of an even-level magic item:
= 1 * 5^-.6 + 2 * 5^-.4 + 3 * 5^-.2 + 4 * 5^0 + 3 * 5^.2 + 2 * 5^.4 + 1 * 5^.6
=~ 18
Or 3.6 times the value of an even-level magic item per player.

The standard parcel, in comparison, is worth 3 times the value of an even-level magic item per player.

So without spending any money, or selling any magic item more than once, and keeping every magic item we got in the last 4 levels (and selling exactly once every item from before that), and not spending even a drop of cash on anything but magic items, we have a budget of 4.6 times the value of an even level magic item.

The WBL rules grant you 3.8 times the value of an even level magic item.

In short, I think the existing WBL values are closer to a realistic estimate than what you are describing, which is just a simple sum of the value of every item that drops. Under a 3e model where magic items can be sold for 100% value, your chart would be accurate.

Gralamin
2009-08-27, 05:09 PM
Let's assume a party sells off every magic item they got 5 or more levels ago, or recrafts it into a new magic item.

Then a party of 5 characters will have to split among them:
L-3 * 1
L-2 * 2
L-1 *3
L+0 *4
L+1 *3
L+2 *2
L+3 *1

We'll assume that much of the other items ended up being obsolete and upgraded, thus going through a resale.

On top of this they have a source of cash.

They have cash equal to:
L-1 *2
L-2 *2
L-3 *2
etc.

As it happens, the value of magic items is about 5^(L/5) * 200, to a first approximation. (Yes, I know this underestimates it by up to 30%).

This works out to ... about the value of a magic item 1 level under the character's level per party member!

Now, what about the cash they got from sold magic items?

Well, at a given level, selling every magic item you find ends up earning you:
(5^.2 + 5^.4 + 5^.6 + 5^.8)/5
times the value of an even-level magic item, or about twice the value of an even level magic item! Ie, nearly identical to your cash treasure.

As we kept all magic items we got, other than those 5 or more levels under the party, we end up with:
(5^-1.0 + 5^-1.2 + 5^-1.4 + 5^-1.6 + ...) * 2* value of even level magic item
as our 'sold item' total. This comes to:
.4 * even level magic item * (1/(1-5^-.2))
=~ 1.5 * even level magic item
Now divide by 5 for each party member's share, and it comes to .3 times the value of an even-level magic item.

Now let's look at the full value of the items we kept:
L-3 * 1
L-2 * 2
L-1 *3
L+0 *4
L+1 *3
L+2 *2
L+3 *1

As a multiplier on the value of an even-level magic item:
= 1 * 5^-.6 + 2 * 5^-.4 + 3 * 5^-.2 + 4 * 5^0 + 3 * 5^.2 + 2 * 5^.4 + 1 * 5^.6
=~ 18
Or 3.6 times the value of an even-level magic item per player.

The standard parcel, in comparison, is worth 3 times the value of an even-level magic item per player.

So without spending any money, or selling any magic item more than once, and keeping every magic item we got in the last 4 levels (and selling exactly once every item from before that), and not spending even a drop of cash on anything but magic items, we have a budget of 4.6 times the value of an even level magic item.

The WBL rules grant you 3.8 times the value of an even level magic item.

In short, I think the existing WBL values are closer to a realistic estimate than what you are describing, which is just a simple sum of the value of every item that drops. Under a 3e model where magic items can be sold for 100% value, your chart would be accurate.

I wasn't sure exactly how to model in the reselling, so I didn't. About how much would I have to take as "Expenses", Percent wise, to keep it about accurate?

Also, you only really need to sell enhancement bonus items every 5 levels - You could, in theory, keep a non-enhancement slot item for 10 levels before upgrading it to a newer version (if one exists).


Edit: Looks like we need an about 21% reduction from the original values I'll just cheat and use the 4.6*Item Level GP figure.