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View Full Version : no LA doppleganger help



rokar4life
2009-08-28, 10:18 AM
can any of you think of a way to balance a doppleganger to be used as a character without a level adjustment while of course keeping the shapeshifting ability

paddyfool
2009-08-28, 10:19 AM
You could just use a changeling or a shifter from Eberron, depending on what exactly you meant to do with said ability.

kamikasei
2009-08-28, 10:21 AM
Changeling. 0 LA race with at-will shapeshifting as disguise self. No stat adjustments, some skill bonuses. There are racial feats and PrCs available (is it the Cabinet Trickster?) that let you improve the basic ability and gain others the doppleganger has that the race is missing, too. But if you just want to be able to look like other humanoids, changeling is your best bet. They're in Eberron and in the MM3.

Umael
2009-08-28, 10:32 AM
Races of Destiny has the doppelganger itself in it. You have to spend something like 8 levels as a monster before you can take your first class level though.

Kol Korran
2009-08-28, 10:35 AM
the only things you'll lose as a changling compared to a doppleganger is the mind reading ability, and the racial HD. a wortyh exchange in my opinion. and Kamikazee is right, you can play a cabinet trickster (Races of Eberron) for more abilities, or the even cooler (IMO) Recaster (same book) but for an entirely different flare.

the smae book has substitution levels of the changling rogue, that focuses on social interactions. it is quite awesome if you're into that sort of play.

rokar4life
2009-08-29, 08:58 PM
thanks for the help guys, what does the changeling naturally look like, and how often/long/accuratley can it transform

FMArthur
2009-08-29, 09:29 PM
It looks like a gray-skinned human, with a featureless face. Basically a doppelganger with hair. Changelings can Minor Change Shape (basically a small variation on the Disguise Self spell - the difference is only that it's not an illusion) as many times as you like for as long as you like. It is exactly what you are looking for from what I can tell (it is literally a half-doppelganger). You can find it in an Eberron book (ECS?) or Monster Manual III.

rokar4life
2009-08-29, 10:21 PM
woot, is it medium?

Rising Phoenix
2009-08-29, 10:27 PM
woot, is it medium?
Yup. They make great assassins...

Teron
2009-08-29, 10:28 PM
Yes. Incidentally, one of its limitations compared to a true doppelganger is that it can't take small forms, but the Cabinet Trickster PrC corrects that.

oxinabox
2009-08-29, 11:19 PM
I believe fluff wise: they are the decedents of doppleganger stock bread with humans


I've been told also get a racial +10 to disguise check (which stacks with there Spell like ability to cast disguise self). i'm not sure that's right though seems very OP, +20 to disguise (will save to negate 10)

Teron
2009-08-29, 11:24 PM
They don't get a racial bonus, just the +10 for a magical disguise. However, since it's not an illusion, there's no will save to disbelieve.

ShadowFighter15
2009-08-29, 11:26 PM
I believe fluff wise: they are the decedents of doppleganger stock bread with humans


I've been told also get a racial +10 to disguise check (which stacks with there Spell like ability to cast disguise self). i'm not sure that's right though seems very OP, +20 to disguise (will save to negate 10)

Their racial ability isn't an illusion, so the will save won't negate 10; they're physically changing their body. The comparison with Disguise Self was just so that players know how much a changeling can alter their form.

EDIT: Damn; ninja'd. Shouldn't have taken so long to check if I was right.

oxinabox
2009-08-29, 11:41 PM
My bad, i must have misunderstood.
Then Suggestion:
Get a Wand of Disguise self.