Console Games with good/bad Storylines

[Stormthorn]

What games do you think have good stories?


What games do you think have bad stories?

Uncle ST is interested in what you (the people) think.

[warty goblin]

Why only console games?

[Stormthorn]

Because i dont play PC games (with a few exceptions). And, not only that, but if i allow PC games all those point and click story/puzzle games are going to swamp the thread.

[Quayleman]

Alright, i'll bite

BAD: Ninja Gaidan 2

Good: KOTOR 2

[Archangel Yuki]

Good: Bioshock.
Bad: Condemned 2.

[ZeroNumerous]

Bad: Bioshock. Saw it coming.
Good: Diablo. Just enough to get you to the next mindless slaughter. What more could you ask for?

[shadowxknight]

Good: Mass Effect
Bad: Soul Calibur 3

[AgentPaper]

Good: Halo series. No, it wouldn't win any pulitzer prices, but it got the job done, and hey, it kept me interested, which is more than I can say for a lot of other games. And the plot didn't take place entirely in cutscenes. Much of the story took place as you were playing the game, and shooting things. Not to mention there was good usage of voice acting, sound effects, and visuals to really sell the whole package.

Bad: Mass Effect. Nothing really happens for 90% of the game. There's essentially an intro sequence and an ending sequence, which are mildly interesting, if cliche, and then leagues and leagues of grind-fest in between.

[Erothayce]

Good: Any Final Fantasy (really you saw it coming)
Bad: Been a while since i console gamed so i can't really remember any bad.

[banjo1985]

Good: Most Final Fantasy's, Grandia'a 1 & 2, Bioshock, Legend of Dragoon, Digital Devil Saga 1 & 2, Hotel Dusk

Bad: Blue Dragon, Final Fantasy Tactics A2, Star Ocean III

[Astrella]

Kingdom Hearts, Final Fantasy.

[Lord of Rapture]

Bad: Bioshock. Saw it coming.
Good: Diablo. Just enough to get you to the next mindless slaughter. What more could you ask for?

Although I'll inevitably burn you at the stake for dissing Bioshock's story, I have to ask: Diablo's on a console?

[Ikialev]

Actually, first Diablo was released on PSX.

Anyway, Good: Metal Gear Solid 4?
Bad: Lost Odyssey. Borring.

[Stormthorn]

I find it amusing that one person posts Mass Effect as a good story and the next posts it as a bad story.

Of course, the negetive opinion used the word "grindfest" to describe a story game, so perhaps they just skipped all the dialogue.


And yes, Bioshock had a pretty bomb story.

[Setra]

Good: Final Fantasy Tactics

Bad: Final Fantasy Tactics: Advance

[SITB]

Good: Shin Megami Tensei games (I and II for the SNES and the rest for PS2 if I recall correctly (Or at least the SMT games worth mentioning))

Bad: Uhh, can't really remember anything specifically bad. Represed memories maybe?

[The Dark Fiddler]

I really enjoyed the story of all the Kingdom Hearts games so far.

But being totally honest here, although I love the series, Pokemon just lacks a good story.

[Captain Alien]

Good: Soul Reaver 2

Bad: Fallout 3

Soul Reaver 2 has some of the most cool time travels I have ever seen. And one of the most surprising and thrilling time paradox I have ever seen. Also, some of the most interesting dialogues between Raziel and Kain in the entire series.

Fallout 3 main quest was just stupid. I couldn't stand James, he was a jerk. Always doing what he wanted with everyone and everything, even his own son/daughter. I didn't even want to save the Wasteland. And the big bad was SPOILER: a robot. I knew it from the beggining. And I didn't even like him. And his evil plan was silly. END OF SPOILER

[Mystic Muse]

good: Fable the lost chapters.

want to scrape my eyes out bad: fable 2 but that's also partially due to gameplay.

[Athaniar]

Good: The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask. Definitely that one.
Bad: KotOR 2, if they haven't changed the story for the console version.

[Terraoblivion]

Good Stories: Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 3 and 4. Few games spend as much time on character development for its main characters or have said characters be as interesting as they are. I dare anybody to say that Junpei and Naoto aren't two of the most complex main characters in video game history.

Valkyria Chronicles. Far from the most original story ever, it is quite well-told and the characters are likeable. The dramatic curve also comes out very well.

Beyond Good and Evil. The first game to make me cry, again the core story is deceptively simple, but through excellent use of cinematic techniques the true impact is much stronger than you would think. Also who cannot love a game where one of the main characters is a talking pig who works as a mechanic?

Bad Stories: Metal Gear Solid 4. While the core story is, of course, monumentally silly, that is not what i dislike. What i dislike is the amount of incredibly dull, pointless sub-plots added and the way Kojima wanted to do the same cinematic thing that Beyond Good and Evil had, without anything resembling the same success, resulting in long, static cutscenes of people talking about things that just aren't interesting.

[shadzar]

GOOD: XenoSaga/Gears series

BAD: LifeLine Voice Action Adventure :smallyuk:
You are a guy trapped in a space station control room telling this waitress (literally, with a microphone) how to stay alive and come save you, by watching everything on the security monitors.

[nanobot_swarm]

Good: Killer 7. At first it is convoluted and confusing, but as it takes you through its world of twisted characters, backdoor politics, and spiritual conflict, you grow to enjoy it. Also it begins to make sense the second time you play it
Bad: Metal Gear Solid 2. It started off strong with the tanker chapter, sp you get excited about the Plant Chapter. Then you get the unlikeable duo of Raiden and Rose, who care more about their personal lives more than the fact that there are Terrorists who have taken hostages and might kill them. The conspiracies get really annoying, and all the reveals at the end get rediculos.

[Cubey]

Bad: nothing. I don't play games with bad plots if I can help it.

That out of the way:

Good:

Super Robot Wars (any title) - the creators take several giant robot shows, mash their storylines together and the end result is not only internally consistent, but awesome. Fans consider SRW titles as doing the included series' plots at least as good as the series themselves, and sometimes even better than the actual series. Gundam SEED Destiny, looking at you.

ICO, Shadow of the Colossus - the storyline is almost 100% showed, not told. And due to minimalistic approach, you have to figure most stuff out by your own rather than receiving answers in the game. But the world, design, and everything that happens is artistically BEAUTIFUL.

Okami - a course of Japanese mythology that's easy to approach by everyone, fun, quirky, amusing at times and moving in a powerful way at others.

Disgaea series - simply hilarious, but also touching emotionally when you least expect it.

[Vmag]

Good: Mercenaries: Playground of Destruction. This game does game stories right; it gives you some background history on what exactly is going on, and the story is played out via the game events and your interaction with the environment at large.

Bad: Tales of Legendia. Even worse for being attached to a series that's typically pretty sweet about this sort of thing.


BAD: LifeLine Voice Action Adventure :smallyuk:
You are a guy trapped in a space station control room telling this waitress (literally, with a microphone) how to stay alive and come save you, by watching everything on the security monitors.

That sounds pretty cool, actually. What was so wrong with it?

[Green-Shirt Q]

Good: I thought Destroy All Humans: Path Of The Furon had a pretty good storyline, as you may already know from another thread I just made. It took the boring-ish forumla of the past games and scrambled it in a way I loved and would have never predicted.

I also thought Phychonauts was a very good story. Very original and it fit together smoothly and pretty much seemlessly.

Bad: Ty the Tazmainian Tiger 3: Night of the Quinkan. It thows a happy cartoon animal into the apocalyptic future filled with an alien-demon-race thing destroying his land, and what does he do? Go on friendly go-kart races. Okay, maybe that only played a small part of it, but I still thought those were rather ham-fisted. Also, the opening of the game is laughably stupid and all the other characters...don't do anything. This game is pretty similar to the first two games I mentioned, but it doesn't pull it off in my opinion, you know?

[AgentPaper]

I find it amusing that one person posts Mass Effect as a good story and the next posts it as a bad story.

Of course, the negative opinion used the word "grindfest" to describe a story game, so perhaps they just skipped all the dialogue.


And yes, Bioshock had a pretty bomb story.

The story that was there was okay, if cliche. The reason I don't like it is that, aside from the very beginning and the very end, everything you do has nothing to do with the story, rather being: "Go to this planet and kill everything because they're bad."

And I will agree that Bioshock had a pretty good story, as they go. I can't say I cared for the game itself, but the story got me to finish the game, and that's about everything I want out of a good game story.

[Celesyne]

Good: Mercenaries: Playground of Destruction. This game does game stories right; it gives you some background history on what exactly is going on, and the story is played out via the game events and your interaction with the environment at large.

Bad: Tales of Legendia. Even worse for being attached to a series that's typically pretty sweet about this sort of thing.



That sounds pretty cool, actually. What was so wrong with it?



"Having to say "shoot leg" to have her fight back, or "dodge right" to get out of the way, and then fight with the voice recognition to get it to understand what your saying. Figuring out how to identify an item on a table for her to pick up, like theres a floppy disc under some papers next to a cd, if you say "check disk" she grabs the CD. Or an I tem you know 1 name for and its identified as something else, I spent hours yelling at a screen trying to get her to check a dresser, when it was identified as a bureau.

[Jahkaivah]

"Having to say "shoot leg" to have her fight back, or "dodge right" to get out of the way, and then fight with the voice recognition to get it to understand what your saying. Figuring out how to identify an item on a table for her to pick up, like theres a floppy disc under some papers next to a cd, if you say "check disk" she grabs the CD. Or an I tem you know 1 name for and its identified as something else, I spent hours yelling at a screen trying to get her to check a dresser, when it was identified as a bureau.

Sounds like a gameplay issue, not a story one.

[shadzar]

That sounds pretty cool, actually. What was so wrong with it?

10 hours of gameplay, 8 of them actually trying to get the voice-recog to work. Dragon Naturally Speaking, wasn't.

Don't believe me about the bad game and story then here!

http://g4tv.com/videos/10862/LifeLine-Voice-Action-Adventure-Review/


Sounds like a gameplay issue, not a story one.

No really, the good part of the game were the bad controls and telling the girl to change clothes AFTER beating it one and with a saved game. She dresses into a Daisy Duke outfit.

The story was really nothing but telling this waitress what to do, and like a women she just wouldn't listen to anything you would say to her. (I kid, I KID!)

There is so little story that you forget it between the opening sequence and the ending sequence because you are too busy trying not to purposefully strangle yourself with the headset, and they neglect to include it in the game at all. You just have the intro and ending for story. It is a big advertisement for what Dragon Naturally Speaking can do for gameplay. We see how far voice-recognition game controls went form there don't we?

If you can find a story in this more that a cover blurb about a Final Fantasy game....then I will play Lifeline again!

[Athaniar]

Also, another game that has a pretty good story is Perfect Dark. Unlike the game it was a spiritual sequel to (Goldeneye), it relied quite heavily on that aspect. Not that I think Goldeneye was bad, in fact, it's my #1 favorite game.

[chiasaur11]

Howzabout some ports from the PC?

Half-Life 2 and the episodes?

Portal?

Awesomeness.

And Marathon 2 Durandal is on X-Box live arcade. The Marathon series has some great plot fun.

[Green-Shirt Q]

Another good storyline was Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers Of Time/Darkness. Great plot, characterization, twists, and overall storytelling.

Especially compared to all the other Pokemon games, which are lacking in those departments.

[Dublock]

in my opinion one of the best story games is Tales of Symphonia for Game Cube. This game, while having great game play completely captivated me with its story from the start all the way to its end. The Characterization is unmatched, great plot twists, and for me it is one of the best games.

Bad hmm....Well one I was disappointed by is the Halo series. After playing the first one (witch was great in all ways) the second two disappointed me. The story could be so much better, the books are great but the story in the games don't show that. For example (not spoiling anything) you don't know what happens in between the 1st and 2nd if you only played the games. The only way you know is if you read First Strike.

[Setra]

Good: Dragon Quest VI, VII, and VII, Xenogears

Bad: I honestly really dislike calling any story bad.. even the FFTA mention I made earlier was a joke.. I can enjoy almost any story as long as the game isn't too difficult..

[Murdim]

in my opinion one of the best story games is Tales of Symphonia for Game Cube. This game, while having great game play completely captivated me with its story from the start all the way to its end. The Characterization is unmatched, great plot twists, and for me it is one of the best games.I would have some objections to this, even though I'm myself a ToS fan. While the first part of the game is a really brilliant deconstruction of the archetypical "Chosen One and friends sent by holy powers on a journey to save the world" plot, after the first visit in the Tower of Salvation, the scenario rapidly becomes a mostly played straight Kid Hero's odyssey to break Elemental Seals, revive the World Tree and get the (pair of) Sword(s) of Plot Advancement in order to destroy the Ancient Evil Conspiracy led by a Fallen Hero and Save Both Worlds... well-made, peppered with good ideas and numerous (though sometimes artificial) twists, but still rather trite in his backbone concept.

Related to this fact, Colette's characterization is unmatched, but not in a good way. At. All.

[hustlertwo]

Good: Final Fantasy Tactics

Bad: Final Fantasy Tactics: Advance

I was going to make this exact post.

Good: Most any Bioware, particularly KotOR and Mass Effect. Jade Empire was no slouch, either.

Bad: Metal Gear Solid 2

So Bad It's Good: Earth Defense Force 2017. They're a horde of people-eating monsters!

[BloodyAngel]

Good: Final Fantasy Tactics. Up until the end, where it loses a little steam to jump into the traditional "stop these token world-slaying horrors" idea... it's a brilliant story about the feuding of the peasant and the noble castes... along with a political war for power between assorted noble families and even the church. Ironically... the token final fantasy parts of it were the worst part, I thought. I also like that it was the only FF game I've ever seen without a needless romantic sub-plot shoehorned in. Maybe it's just nostalgia factor for me, but I loved that game.

Bad: I usually avoid playing games through if I loathe the story. It takes a HECK of a lot of gameplay to make up for bad story, to me. So for bad games... you're on your own. I've heard disappointing things about Fallout 3 though. The story and ending were apparently so bad that they're correcting it and bowing their heads in shame. That says something.

[Cespenar]

Hypothetically speaking, if I would say, for example, "Bad: Final Fantasy 8", I'd probably be regarded as a troll or provoker/firebrand etc. right?

[Celesyne]

For the record. at least on my part: The Fallout 3 ending wasn't bad, it was a good ending. The problem was, that it was... theres no real good way to put this..... REALLY anti-climatic. you spend the last 4 hours of the game building up to what should ffel like an ending of uber-epicawesomness... and instead get a good ending, if nowhere near as awesome as it should have been. That and the inability to continue playing after the ending was the deal-breaker.

[Cubey]

Hypothetically speaking, if I would say, for example, "Bad: Final Fantasy 8", I'd probably be regarded as a troll or provoker/firebrand etc. right?

Don't know about others, but I'd agree with you.

As for other posts, I liked Metal Gear Solid 2. Because the whole thing about Raiden angsting, the plot being incomprehensible etc meant that Hideo Kojima is actively trolling his playerbase - hate is his desired reaction. If I react positively to the storyline (and definitely to gameplay - I enjoyed MGS2), I can troll him back!

[Vmag]

I would have some objections to this, even though I'm myself a ToS fan. While the first part of the game is a really brilliant deconstruction of the archetypical "Chosen One and friends sent by holy powers on a journey to save the world" plot, after the first visit in the Tower of Salvation, the scenario rapidly becomes a mostly played straight Kid Hero's odyssey to break Elemental Seals, revive the World Tree and get the (pair of) Sword(s) of Plot Advancement in order to destroy the Ancient Evil Conspiracy led by a Fallen Hero and Save Both Worlds... well-made, peppered with good ideas and numerous (though sometimes artificial) twists, but still rather trite in his backbone concept.

Ok, TV Tropes buzzwords aside, anything wrong with the game's story (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TropesAreTools?from=Main.TropesAreNotBad)?

[Captain Alien]

Also, another game that has a pretty good story is Perfect Dark.

So true. That game is a masterpiece. Too bad they put a Rare-style final boss (Wich means inability to beat him).

The story was thrilling and interesting.

[Zevox]

Good: Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 3 and 4. There is just no way to accurately sum up in a brief statement how much those games revolve around their characters and plot, far more so than any other video games I've ever played, and how incredibly well it's all done. Easily two of the best games I've ever played, in large part because of their stories.

Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor. Not on the level of the Persona games, but a fascinating story with well-developed characters and multiple endings that you may actually find yourself having a difficult time choosing between.

Disgaea 1. Extremely amusing, with quirky characters that are great to watch and play as, yet also pretty interesting and even touching at times.

Dragon Quest 8. Somehow, it manages to be an extremely traditional JRPG with few unpredictable elements to its story, and yet also be very good, rather than boringly clichè.

Chrono Trigger. Logically, when I think about it, this game's story should strike me as weird and corny. But somehow, it doesn't. I quite enjoyed it. And that's not nostalgia goggles talking, because I first played it last year, when the DS remake came out (I never had an SNES).

Tales of Symphonia. Threw me for a number of loops in the second half there, and just very well done overall, a few characters aside. The only Gamecube game that can challenge Super Smash Brother Melee for the title of best game on that system in my mind.

Okay, I'm getting too long with the list and comments about them here, but other games I've seen others mention and agree with or thought were worth mentioning myself: Jade Empire, Psychonauts, Zelda: Twilight Princess, Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, Perfect Dark, Ogre Battle 64, and Skies of Arcadia.

Bad: Disgaea 2. Adell was an idiot, that frog-thing almost managed to be worse even than Adell, Rozalin lost any interesting traits she had when they had her follow the incredibly boring clichè of falling for and coming to agree with Adell, and the only remotely interesting part of the story, the final twist, was undone in the most clichè and corny manner possible. Yeah, I played this game for the gameplay, not the story.

Anything from Sonic, sans Sonic Chronicles only, and that mostly because the game didn't even take itself seriously - I loved Rouge pointing out the ridiculousness of the space pirate's accent, for instance. Really, even Sonic Adventure 2, the one great game he's had since the originals, was great in spite of the plot, not because of it. (Just to be sure I'm clear, I'm not counting the original games here either, since their plots were simplistic and existed only to justify having you run around the levels and fight Robotnik in the most bare-bones way possible.)

Final Fantasy Tactics Advance. Just... ow. I can't understand how that series is popular. It's bottom of the barrel in the tactical RPG genre, both in terms of story and gameplay. (That just being the Advance games - the original Final Fantasy Tactics was decent.)


Good Stories: Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 3 and 4. Few games spend as much time on character development for its main characters or have said characters be as interesting as they are. I dare anybody to say that Junpei and Naoto aren't two of the most complex main characters in video game history.
Naoto certainly, but I never really connected with Junpei myself. He was more annoying than anything else for most of the game. Though I must admit, he most certainly did have probably the most powerful scene of the game in spite of that. I'm sure you know the one I'm talking about. (And I'd add Akihiko and Kanji to that list myself, at the least.)

Zevox

[Lord of Rapture]

Bad: nothing. I don't play games with bad plots if I can help it.

That out of the way:

Good:

Super Robot Wars (any title) - the creators take several giant robot shows, mash their storylines together and the end result is not only internally consistent, but awesome. Fans consider SRW titles as doing the included series' plots at least as good as the series themselves, and sometimes even better than the actual series. Gundam SEED Destiny, looking at you.

Disgaea series - simply hilarious, but also touching emotionally when you least expect it.

Super Robot Wars...eh. I always liked the concept of mashing franchises together, and I'm happy that it exists and people like it... it's just that I never really liked any of the series it put in there, so it kinda falls flat for me. I think that if they did put in franchises I enjoyed into the game, I would agree with you.

Having never actually played Disgaea and simply having watched the clips of Youtube, I have to say... yes. Yes it is.

[Terraoblivion]

The reason i like Junpei so much is due to his growth from annoying class clown to the most mature, emotionally stable member of the cast. I just felt it was handled extremely well in addition to actually being an honest and dignified take on what drives people to humiliate themselves like the class clown archetype does. So while i can see him being annoying, that is really part of why i think he is a great character, the growth away from that is all the more impressive then.

And Naoto is just pure awesome. There is no way around her awesomeness.

I also agree with your nomination of Devil Survivor it has quite a good story. I am a bit bitter about the bait and switch nature of the Amane ending, though.

[Mando Knight]

Anything from Sonic, sans Sonic Chronicles only, and that mostly because the game didn't even take itself seriously

Sonic Chronicles' ending was awesome.

[Zevox]

The reason i like Junpei so much is due to his growth from annoying class clown to the most mature, emotionally stable member of the cast. I just felt it was handled extremely well in addition to actually being an honest and dignified take on what drives people to humiliate themselves like the class clown archetype does. So while i can see him being annoying, that is really part of why i think he is a great character, the growth away from that is all the more impressive then.
I see - I hadn't thought of him quite that way myself (though I may contest your application of the term "most" in that first sentence). I can understand that.


And Naoto is just pure awesome. There is no way around her awesomeness.
Yes, yes she is.


I also agree with your nomination of Devil Survivor it has quite a good story. I am a bit bitter about the bait and switch nature of the Amane ending, though.
Hm, okay. I haven't done the Amane ending myself yet. Actually, the only ending I've done was my first choice, Naoya's (I kind of stalled near the end of my second play through, during which I was doing the Gin/Haru ending), but the general gist of each was easy to catch from the events you have to go through to unlock them. Or perhaps not, if there was a twist to Amane's you couldn't have seen coming from the set-up to it.


Sonic Chronicles' ending was awesome.
Aye, there was that as well (assuming you mean the very ending, where the group returns to their world, not the conclusion of the main plot, which I actually felt was kinda dull). That is the thing that gives me hope that the series will continue.

Zevox

[Setra]

Hypothetically speaking, if I would say, for example, "Bad: Final Fantasy 8", I'd probably be regarded as a troll or provoker/firebrand etc. right?
I've always considered it hit or miss, personally I liked it but I'm generally not a good judge.

I have the ability to like nearly any story so long as the plot holes aren't as gaping as the ones in Dissidia. Even then I can still enjoy it.

[Terraoblivion]

The twist to Amane's ending is that after being reasonable and goes on about how God cares about free will and the like, then in the ending cutscene it starts going on about how you make humanity live in fear of God and how any deviation from his rules is brutally punished. During the ending cutscene it gets this Messian, for those who have played older Megaten games, that it just didn't have until then.

As for Junpei being the most mature and emotionally stable, who would you consider more so? Aigis is the only candidate i can think of. Well and Minato, but he doesn't count since he is a player avatar without much in the way of personality.

[Lord of Rapture]

So would you consider the fact that Hong Kong never had a Persona game in stores (or at least the ones I saw) a sin?

[Terraoblivion]

Pretty much. Persona 3 and 4 are two of the three best PS2 games i have played, with the third being Okami. These are games you have to find a way to play, they are just that good.

[Zevox]

The twist to Amane's ending is that after being reasonable and goes on about how God cares about free will and the like, then in the ending cutscene it starts going on about how you make humanity live in fear of God and how any deviation from his rules is brutally punished. During the ending cutscene it gets this Messian, for those who have played older Megaten games, that it just didn't have until then.
Ah, I see. That would be a bit of a let-down. One of the stronger points of it, I felt, was that each ending was portrayed in a way that it a completely valid choice for a rational person to make (well, except Yuzu's, if what I read about that is accurate, but "run away" was a pretty dumb sounding idea for how to deal with the problem anyway). They didn't make Naoya's into an "I'm evil and I just want the power!" ending, nor make Amane's unambiguously the best choice to make, since angels and God are portrayed in a suspect manner throughout the game, and both Gin's and Atsuro's solutions could be seen to have their ups and downs given the situation. I could understand including something to make Amane's ending imperfect given that, but that twist would instead unambiguously make it out to be a mistake to side with her. Pity.


As for Junpei being the most mature and emotionally stable, who would you consider more so? Aigis is the only candidate i can think of. Well and Minato, but he doesn't count since he is a player avatar without much in the way of personality.
Well, by the end, since they've each confronted the main things that had left them emotionally unstable, each is pretty stable and mature in that regard, but I'd probably have put Akihiko or Mitsuru as "the most" myself, or at least tied with Junpei.

Zevox

[Stormthorn]

I noticed that KOTOR 2 also ende dup on both the exceptionaly good and exceptionaly bad lists.


So i guess when it comes to BioWare you either love them or hate them.

[Zevox]

I noticed that KOTOR 2 also ende dup on both the exceptionaly good and exceptionaly bad lists.


So i guess when it comes to BioWare you either love them or hate them.
I think that has more to do with the fact that 2 was rushed and, near the end of the game, it became apparent that it wasn't quite finished the way it should have been. I mean, I love Bioware's work myself, but even so, KotOR 2 ended up not being as good as the first, or as good as it could have been, because of that.

Zevox

[Catch]

Good: Odin Sphere. Five intersecting stories where each main character plays both protagonist in one and antagonist in another, and the story manged to be tight enough not to trip over itself. Not to mention a fully-voiced script.

Bad: Halo. It tried, so so hard to play with the big kid games that had character development and slightly (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starcraft) original (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warhammer_40k) concepts, but ended up being nothing more than a solid shooter with it's head up it's own ass. Then it joined a fraternity, developed an alcohol problem, and got a hot girlfriend. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360)

[hustlertwo]

The original FFT had one of the best stories I've seen in a game. Prone to the occasional narrative excess, and the story for the main character is a bit weak in how it wraps up (in fact, it feels somewhat the same as the ending of KotOR 2 in how little it bothers to actually tie things up), but the vast majority of it is an interesting and surprisingly tragic tale, especially the unexpected bit at the tail end. It made many of its villains humane and the heroes flawed, save for Ramza himself.

KotOR 2's main story had issues, specifically regarding the primary 'antagonists', all of whom are pretty lame and thus brought the overall story arc down considerably (making you realize how important a fellow like Darth Malak was for driving things forward). But a lot of the side stuff is most engaging. G0-T0 in particular is one of the most fascinating characters in the series, made more so by the fact that unless you dig deep to figure him/it out, he seems completely different on the surface. I'd have preferred to have a KotOR 3 done by the original devs, but if it had been done by Oblivion instead, with them having a proper development schedule, I'd still have been satisfied.

MGS 2 was just painful to behold. The first one had been over-the-top and long-winded but still boiled down to a fun bit of spy stuff/philosophical meandering. 2 cranked the philosophy and over-the-topness way, way up, and left out the fun, becoming a bloated mass of blah. And his supposed meta message about the nature of games was pretty lame. To see that sort of idea pulled off a lot better, I'd point out Bioshock.

[Dark_Prophet]

@ Catch: Halo only is bad because the crowd its popular around and its ex-stepfather Microsoft. I personally love the setting feel of it - hell, as much as the shooter bit is, it's almost a guilty pleasure for me compared to the story and the like. Although the game really should have been about Sergeant Johnson rather then the one dimensional boring cardboard Master Chief. Ugh. Anyway, Bungie is a great developer - the Myth series is a testament to that.

Good: Persona 2: Innocent Sin and Eternal Punishment are my vote. Beautiful, intricately woven stories, very lifelike characters, depth, amazing amounts of side, setting information that isn't generally required at all but creates a very believable world. Amazing things are done with the premise that rumors can become reality present in both (which you can utilize). Just like most Megaten games, if you can take the unforgiving difficulty, the story actually grips you.

Bad: Starcraft's is the only game's story that just turns me off. There was no suspension of disbelief, and while the setting was novel, it was archetypical and made of cliches, almost intentionally so. Campy, I guess.

In the original game, the Terran plotline is really the only one that's fun, novel, and interesting. The Protoss, are well...too alien, and the Zerg, well, enough said other then Kerrigan. The expansion - again, Kerrigan, and the UDF were a nice twist. But overall, it really just seemed like they were mostly excuses to give you the basic strategy objectives, almost like it didn't really take itself seriously. Every side and organization is vague and undeveloped, especially the Xel'Naga that just loved to wander around creating perfect races for no reason, probably that way it could be dramatically revealed in later installments. And then, to make matters worse, because this is Starcraft 64, the extra "exclusive content" generally had mind-boggling HORRID plots (Resurrection! Dear god, why?) that seemed to take the dubious canon, bend it over across its knee and have its disturbing way with it.

[chiasaur11]

Good: Odin Sphere. Five intersecting stories where each main character plays both protagonist in one and antagonist in another, and the story manged to be tight enough not to trip over itself. Not to mention a fully-voiced script.

Bad: Halo. It tried, so so hard to play with the big kid games that had character development and slightly (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starcraft) original (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warhammer_40k) concepts, but ended up being nothing more than a solid shooter with it's head up it's own ass. Then it joined a fraternity, developed an alcohol problem, and got a hot girlfriend. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360)

Halo's reasonably clever if you pay attention. Not Marathon clever, of course (which kicks Starcraft around the block plotwise) but there is real thought going into the plot.

[hustlertwo]

I haven't played through the third Halo, but clever isn't a word that would describe its plot. It was fun, though. Had a rollicking action film feel to it that many FPS games try for and most fail to achieve. Only the first one fits this description, however. By the second it got too serious to survive being dull, and that was all she wrote. I'd wager the third wasn't able to repair the damage, and probably didn't even bother to try.

[Crow]

Good:

-Final Fanatasy Tactics. Many others have already explained this one, and I tend to agree with them on most points.

-Too Human. A lot of people had some trouble following this story, because it fell too much on the player to search out bits of it themselves. Plus it could be difficult to follow as it had some little nuances that were never explicitly spelled out for the player, or were left open to interpritation. Still a very solid creative spin on the eddas. I liked it anyways.

Bad:

-Any Grand Theft Auto game. Horribly cliche, nothing surprising, and not even in a good way. Maybe that type of plot paired up with the unoriginal characters is part of the "charm" of the series? I guess not for me. Why even bother?

-Final Fantasy 8. I just couldn't get into it, and it seemed like a contrived attempt to live up to FF7, which failed.

-Final Fantasy X2. They just couldn't leave well enough alone.

[Setra]

-Final Fantasy 8. I just couldn't get into it, and it seemed like a contrived attempt to live up to FF7, which failed.
I am actually curious about this.. the stories are pretty different... I could see if you meant Squall being an attempt to be similar to Cloud... but...

[Crow]

I am actually curious about this.. the stories are pretty different... I could see if you meant Squall being an attempt to be similar to Cloud... but...

It was more the attempt to live up to, or surpass the previous story in scope, scale, and impact. It just felt so forced. The main characters were horribly annoying too. Though I did chuckle at how much squall's "dress uniform" near the beginning of the game looked like a Michael Jackson special.

[Setra]

It was more the attempt to live up to, or surpass the previous story in scope, scale, and impact. It just felt so forced. The main characters were horribly annoying too. Though I did chuckle at how much squall's "dress uniform" near the beginning of the game looked like a Michael Jackson special.
Isn't that how every Final Fantasy up til.. 9 worked?

Two tried to live up to the first, three tried to live up to two, and so on..

Sure 8 may not have lived up to 7, but even though Crono Cross didn't live up to Crono Trigger doesn't mean it's horrible. It's actually amusing to see people who played 8 first play 7, I have a few friends in which this was the case.. they liked 8 better, so sometimes I wonder if it isn't just that people tend to like the first one they played better.. (It's true in my case as well, my favorite is 6)

Of course, if you dislike the characters then of course you'll hate the story. To me the characters are more important than the story anyways.

I actually liked them though.. so maybe I'm biased towards the story because of that? Who knows.

If I sound like I'm rambling or don't know what I'm talking about, or like I'm high... it's probably because I'm going to bed soon.

[Catch]

@ Catch: Halo only is bad because the crowd its popular around and its ex-stepfather Microsoft. I personally love the setting feel of it - hell, as much as the shooter bit is, it's almost a guilty pleasure for me compared to the story and the like. Although the game really should have been about Sergeant Johnson rather then the one dimensional boring cardboard Master Chief. Ugh. Anyway, Bungie is a great developer - the Myth series is a testament to that.

We've argued about this before, but Halo's flaws don't originate from the people who play it or the company that bankrolled the project--you can only blame them for the product's image, not its writing.



Bad: Starcraft's is the only game's story that just turns me off. There was no suspension of disbelief, and while the setting was novel, it was archetypical and made of cliches, almost intentionally so. Campy, I guess.

Halo: Compelling and rich in character. Starcraft: Trite and overdone.

From... a certain point of view, maybe.


In the original game, the Terran plotline is really the only one that's fun, novel, and interesting. The Protoss, are well...too alien, and the Zerg, well, enough said other then Kerrigan. The expansion - again, Kerrigan, and the UDF were a nice twist. But overall, it really just seemed like they were mostly excuses to give you the basic strategy objectives, almost like it didn't really take itself seriously.

Aliens are too alien? I dunno, the Protoss are pretty human-like, if you think about it. Self-centered, dogmatically pious, warlike, bogged down by internal politics, interfering with the natural order of things...


Every side and organization is vague and undeveloped, especially the Xel'Naga that just loved to wander around creating perfect races for no reason, probably that way it could be dramatically revealed in later installments.

There's more history and lore to the setting than could be reasonably packaged into the game's script (just like Halo) without plot-exposition-diarrhea, which the series skirted on more than one occasion. The explanations are there, if you're willing to look into it, but for the actual progression of the story, you get what you need.


And then, to make matters worse, because this is Starcraft 64, the extra "exclusive content" generally had mind-boggling HORRID plots (Resurrection! Dear god, why?) that seemed to take the dubious canon, bend it over across its knee and have its disturbing way with it.

Starcraft 64? Come on, that's like me bringing up Xbox Live or Halo Clix. Low blow, man. :smallannoyed:

[Terraoblivion]

That's funny, Zevox. I'd probably consider Mitsuru the least mature member of the cast. Her facade is strong and level-headed and in control, but as the game progresses you see that she ultimately doesn't understand how to deal with others on a personal level. She has never had the chance to truly grow up emotionally and it shows. Mitsuru collapses completely whenever the rules and systems she has set up for herself breaks down and immediately turns to others to tell her what to feel.

And Akihiko is just a dork without social skills and a huge competitive streakt which makes him awesome. He is genuinely fun for that reason.

[ZeroNumerous]

Although I'll inevitably burn you at the stake for dissing Bioshock's story, I have to ask: Diablo's on a console?

Yup. PS1 release of D1.

[warty goblin]

I confess to being a fan of Far Cry 2's story. Not really the characters, they are quite literally interchangable, but the narrative itself is fairly sophisticated if you pay attention to the way it sets you up as, then points out you are, a violent sociopath incapable of actually fixing anything since all you can do is shoot people*. The ending fits this to to a T.

*Or set them on fire. That works too.