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Shpadoinkle
2009-08-29, 05:39 AM
Yes, I'm aware that this class is awful and sucks hard, especially compared to clerics, who can heal just as well and do a million other things to boot, but it's pretty close to a concept I have for an NPC. Basically he's a qigong student devoted to mastering the ability to heal himself and others.

I don't neccesarily want to make the healer as powerful as the cleric, but I would like for it to be viable as a support class. So far I've got:
-Dropping the unicorn companion and replacing it with the Touch of Healing reserve feat as a bonus feat (or just a normal bonus feat if the character has already taken ToH). This is mostly because I dislike the idea of having to keep track of another NPC creature.
-Raising BAB to 1/1 (as a fighter). This would allow them to do something DURING battle instead of before (buffing) and after (healing), even if it's only firing a crossbow.
-Edit the spell list a bit. Remove stuff like Speak with Animals (why do they even have that in the first place?) and add most of the abjurations from the wiz/sor list, like Mage Armor, Protection From Arrows, Resist Energy, (Greater) Dispel Magic, (Lesser) Globe of Invulnerabitliy, etc.

Tempest Fennac
2009-08-29, 06:29 AM
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97644 contains a lot of ideas which could help.

Aotrs Commander
2009-08-29, 06:37 AM
Strategically misspell your companion so that you get a Unicron companion. That's probably the easiest way to buff the healer...

Myou
2009-08-29, 06:51 AM
Strategically misspell your companion so that you get a Unicron companion. That's probably the easiest way to buff the healer...

Sir, you have won the thread. :smallamused:

Draz74
2009-08-29, 12:00 PM
-Dropping the unicorn companion and replacing it with the Touch of Healing reserve feat as a bonus feat (or just a normal bonus feat if the character has already taken ToH). This is mostly because I dislike the idea of having to keep track of another NPC creature.
Owch. I understand not wanting to keep track of two stat blocks; but the Unicorn was pretty much the best feature they got. Oh well, it's up to you.


-Raising BAB to 1/1 (as a fighter). This would allow them to do something DURING battle instead of before (buffing) and after (healing), even if it's only firing a crossbow.
I don't think it will help as much as you think it will.

Do you have Tome of Battle? I could see a limited White Raven Maneuver progression being a good way to give the Healer something to do during battle. Heh, a class with full casting and Maneuver progression, yet still not overpowered. :smallamused:


Remove stuff like Speak with Animals (why do they even have that in the first place?)
So they can go all Disney Princess on you.


and add most of the abjurations from the wiz/sor list, like Mage Armor, Protection From Arrows, Resist Energy, (Greater) Dispel Magic, (Lesser) Globe of Invulnerabitliy, etc.

That would be a good power boost, but IMHO it would still be very boring to play.

Fax Celestis
2009-08-29, 12:05 PM
The best way to make a healer better is to get more spells on their list. They get huge numbers of spells per day, and are a spontaneous caster. Get them more spells somehow (like say, Prestige Bard/Ranger/Paladin), and they start getting a lot better.

EDIT: RSoP cheese works great here too. :P

Faramir
2009-08-29, 12:10 PM
My 3.x knowledge is pretty non-existent but how about simply giving them the ability to cast touch healing spells at a range?

Solves the problem of what they're doing in combat.

Myshlaevsky
2009-08-29, 12:14 PM
My 3.x knowledge is pretty non-existent but how about simply giving them the ability to cast touch healing spells at a range?

Solves the problem of what they're doing in combat.

That's what the feat mentioned in the OP's post does, IIRC.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-08-29, 12:16 PM
My 3.x knowledge is pretty non-existent but how about simply giving them the ability to cast touch healing spells at a range?

Solves the problem of what they're doing in combat.Except that, other than Heal, Mass Heal, and CLW at 1st level, healing in combat is useless. At 10th level, CCW heals 28 points of damage. A Fireball deals 35 points of damage to the entire party. You just spent a higher-level slot to not even mitigate the effect on a single member of your party. Trading actions is normally viewed as not a good idea, and you're doing worse than that.

KillianHawkeye
2009-08-29, 01:27 PM
You could probably give them certain spells at a lower spell level than a cleric gets them (mass cure X wounds, for example), unless they are already set up like that. :smallconfused:

Draz74
2009-08-29, 01:40 PM
Trading actions is normally viewed as not a good idea, and you're doing worse than that.

Trading actions effectively is a fine tactic, anytime your party outnumbers the opposition (e.g. a Solo BBEG fight).

The rest of your point is very valid though. Cure spells are indeed a waste of standard actions (other than CLW at very low levels).

deuxhero
2009-08-29, 04:08 PM
Wait. I thought healer was meant to be an NPC class like Samurai was.

Starbuck_II
2009-08-29, 04:14 PM
Except that, other than Heal, Mass Heal, and CLW at 1st level, healing in combat is useless. At 10th level, CCW heals 28 points of damage. A Fireball deals 35 points of damage to the entire party. You just spent a higher-level slot to not even mitigate the effect on a single member of your party. Trading actions is normally viewed as not a good idea, and you're doing worse than that.

Let them quicken curing spells without slot adjustent 1/ 2 levels. Add to that the Range curing spell abiliy at will.

See now they can cure (at range for +0 slot adjustment) and cast something else.

Sure, you at 10th level a fireball everyone fails against deals 35, but at least 1/2 will make it. So casting 2 cure spells 5/day will cover that.

No one said anything about using a higher level slot: you get it for free he was saying.

sonofzeal
2009-08-29, 04:23 PM
Ahaha.... I played a Healer for quite a while, and ended up being possibly one of the most game-changing PCs. Here's what we did....

Houserules

- Base everything off of Charisma. Spellcasting, class features, whathaveyou.

- Expand the spell list based off later supplements. I can send the full list to anyone who asks for it.

- Reflavour the "Combat Focus" feats to be triggered by using any healing magic. (this one's unnecessary, but we had fun with it)

(edit)

- Spontanious casting out of the Healing domain.

------

Playstyle tips

- Diplomance. Healers are respected members of their community and fairly distinctive, so use that as leverage while pumping out ridiculous numbers. Being party Face will give you more opportunities to contribute.

- Vow of Peace. Not nearly as restrictive as you probably think it is, doesn't hurt a Healer much anyway, gives you a massive boost to defense, and Calm Emotions aura is massively gamechanging. Seriously, you can walk into the middle of most fights with no fear of injury, turn on your aura, and the fight is over. What you do then is up to you, and you shouldn't always do it, but at least it's an option.

- Cloudy Conjuration. If you can get it, do; it lets you play BC/debuff every time you cast a conjuration(healing) spell, which should be pretty frequent.

- Stack Healing Touch with the Augment Healing feat, and optimized Charisma, for the biggest per-spell healing in the game.

(edit)

- There's always a need for healing magic, and in a competitive marketplace Healers do have the edge. Any Healer should be able to find work providing spellcasting services (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#spellcastingAndServices) during downtime, as they can provide more per-spell than anyone else. The difference isn't significant on a battlefield, but in a marketplace where people can comparison-shop, Healers should make out like bandits.

Irreverent Fool
2009-08-29, 09:50 PM
Except that, other than Heal, Mass Heal, and CLW at 1st level, healing in combat is useless. At 10th level, CCW heals 28 points of damage. A Fireball deals 35 points of damage to the entire party. You just spent a higher-level slot to not even mitigate the effect on a single member of your party. Trading actions is normally viewed as not a good idea, and you're doing worse than that.



- Stack Healing Touch with the Augment Healing feat, and optimized Charisma, for the biggest per-spell healing in the game.


Healers can actually manage to make in-combat healing effective. The main reason the class sucks is that it's really not fun to have MORE HEALING as your only option in combat.

obnoxious
sig

Hal
2009-08-29, 10:01 PM
What if you made the character a Favored Soul and just gave them healing spells?

Croverus
2009-08-29, 10:12 PM
Healers only such if the party already has helaing. And since they add their character level and their charisma to all their healing spells, they make healing VERY effective

oxinabox
2009-08-29, 11:54 PM
mmh, i want allowing my PC's to hire a ship healer (using the healer class)
(they copuld have hired a cleric but that would have beeen very expensive and rp difficult: Cleric of Palor: "So are you sure those fat merchant ships are smuggling corpses?" PC: Yes". vs unaligned healer; PC: "Say can you keep this guard the king set on us, alive but on the wrong side on conscious?" healer: "Wheres my pay?:")

So that had the option of Hiring one up to lvl 5 for varios prices.
PC's:" why can't we hire a lvl 6?"
Me: "Cos after lvl 5 it starts getting weird: Unicorn companion, weird"
I may be misrecalling the lvl

Thurbane
2009-08-30, 12:28 AM
Making the casting spontaneous, and expanding their list with all healing type spells from the Spell Compendium is a good start.

What if you made the character a Favored Soul and just gave them healing spells?
...or this.

sonofzeal
2009-08-30, 05:01 AM
What if you made the character a Favored Soul and just gave them healing spells?
- It lacks the challenge and the uniqueness.
- You like having a badass Unicorn companion
- Skillpoints are more important to you than combat ability
- You're playing at level 1-3 and the Healing Hands thing makes a huge difference
- You're playing at level 20+ and a free True Resurrection is too good to pass up.
- You're playing in a social campaign where Healers have more prestige
- You're playing in a campaign with downtime to sell your spellcasting services and love raking in the dough.


......it's hardly the optimal choice under almost any definition, but there are reasons to play it.

Person_Man
2009-08-30, 03:26 PM
Several bits of advice:

1) The Unicorn Companion is actually the Healer's most powerful class feature. Magic Circle Against Evil (makes you immune to most Enchantment spells and summoned monsters), Wild Empathy with a +6 bonus (now any animal you meet is your friend/ally, including dinosaurs and dire animals), Neutralize Poison, Cure Wounds, Scent, immunity to poison, charm, and compulsion, darkvision, it's decent at melee, and it gets all of your Companion abilities; Evasion, Devotion, Multiattack, Improved Evasion, bonus hit die, Str/Dex, Natural Armor, the ability to swap out for even better companions, and Share Spells. This last ability is particularly important, since you can basically ride your Unicorn and heal it to max hit points every round of every combat, while it fights. Unless someone can kill it or you in 1 round of combat, you basically can't die.

2) There's a PrC in one of the Eberron books (Faiths of Eberron, IIRC) somewhere that gives any divine caster bonus Domains every level. More Domains = more spells on your spell list. This by itself makes the Healer a very powerful caster, even moreso then the Cleric in some ways, since it's spells per day progression is the best in the game. You're just not playable at low levels.

3) The easiest fix for a Healer is to just make them a spontaneous caster. You won't be CoDzilla, but you'll be an excellent support build and undead slayer.

Doc Roc
2009-08-30, 03:44 PM
Simply put, make them arcane and class into war weaver.

Keep the unicorn.

Add a drake helm with darkbolt from the teflammar list, improved invis, and a couple other solid war-weaver buffs, a runestaff for utility like solid fog and fly, and bam! Add Magic of the Land, mix, let set, and run before your GM tries to kill you for making an abject reminder of the fact that any full caster is horribly broken.

Hal
2009-08-30, 09:20 PM
- It lacks the challenge and the uniqueness.
- You like having a badass Unicorn companion
- Skillpoints are more important to you than combat ability
- You're playing at level 1-3 and the Healing Hands thing makes a huge difference
- You're playing at level 20+ and a free True Resurrection is too good to pass up.
- You're playing in a social campaign where Healers have more prestige
- You're playing in a campaign with downtime to sell your spellcasting services and love raking in the dough.


......it's hardly the optimal choice under almost any definition, but there are reasons to play it.

Well, the OP was unhappy with the Healer class, it was just an idea. One of the gripes people have in this thread about Healers are their lack of anything to do in combat besides healing; a Favored Soul doesn't necessarily have that problem.

One suggestion I'd made in the resurrected Healer thread (which I'd forgotten about until it just got locked) was to give Healers Turn Undead progression, if for no other reason than to fuel feats (Domain feats, DMM, etc.). If you don't want them to turn undead, call it something else but say that it can act in place of turn undead for the sake of feats.

Set
2009-08-30, 09:37 PM
Thoughts from the other thread;

Tweaking the spell list to have better buffs, folding in the abilities of the Combat Medic (kickers to healing spells), a dash of War Weaver (mass versions of some buffs for free) and throwing on some sort of ranged healing utility (Divine Reach) would probably make the class worth playing as a healer / buffer.

The 'mercies' of the Pathfinder Paladin (remove something from a list, such as fatigued or poisoned, for free, with a Lay on Hands) or the token-healing of the Gold Knight PrC (from Scarred Lands, gives allies golden tokens that allows him to channel his healing spells on them at Close range) could be fun variations on the ranged healing / spell kicker concepts.

Having the Healer auto-empower cure spells at a certain level, or get a free Sudden Empower / Sudden Maximize / Sudden Quicken that only applies to cure spells could be a neat option. Perhaps every five levels they get a different Sudden Metamagic feat, only usable on Cure spells. Sudden Empower at 5th, Sudden Quicken at 10th, Sudden Maximize 15, Sudden Chain at 20th. :)

Definitely make sure that newer shinier healing spells, like Close Wounds and Lesser Vigor / Vigor / Mass Vigor are added to their spell list.

oxinabox
2009-08-31, 01:32 AM
Maybe give it cure minor wounds, as a spell like ability, usable up t othere clas lvl number of times