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Mystic Muse
2009-08-29, 09:07 AM
can somebody explain level adjustment?

Adumbration
2009-08-29, 09:09 AM
Level Adjustment

This line is included in the entries of creatures suitable for use as player characters or as cohorts (usually creatures with Intelligence scores of at least 3 and possessing opposable thumbs). Add this number to the creature’s total Hit Dice, including class levels, to get the creature’s effective character level (ECL). A character’s ECL affects the experience the character earns, the amount of experience the character must have before gaining a new level, and the character’s starting equipment.

Any questions?

Malacode
2009-08-29, 09:12 AM
They're basically levels without levels. A level one character with +2 LA is counted as a level 3 character. A level 4 character with +7 LA is a level 11 character. Generally, you want to avoid it with spellcasters, but melee types can sometimes deal with it.

shadow_archmagi
2009-08-29, 09:16 AM
Basically

"This is so awesome that in order to compete with you, people would have to be two levels higher. Like, if you were a 2nd level fighter, you'd be killing things at the same rate as a FOURTH level fighter. Yeah. So your 2nd level minotaur is going in the 4th level party and facing CR four monsters. "

Grynning
2009-08-29, 09:30 AM
Basically

"This is so awesome that in order to compete with you, people would have to be two levels higher. Like, if you were a 2nd level fighter, you'd be killing things at the same rate as a FOURTH level fighter. Yeah. So your 2nd level minotaur is going in the 4th level party and facing CR four monsters. "

This is what it's supposed to mean. Very rarely is LA worth it....a few static abilities =/= class levels or even racial HD (3rd ed's other monster character mechanic).

Adumbration
2009-08-29, 09:33 AM
This is what it's supposed to mean. Very rarely is LA worth it....a few static abilities =/= class levels or even racial HD (3rd ed's other monster character mechanic).

Weeell, there are some exceptions. A feral lolth-touched mineral warrior half-ogre would like to have a word with you. :smallwink:

Grynning
2009-08-29, 09:39 AM
That's why I said very rarely, not never.
Also template stacking is pretty lame, IMO. Yes, you could explain each one of them away, but then it's supremely obvious that the character fluff was built around the mechanics; either that or you handwave the flavor of the templates away but then why use them?

Adumbration
2009-08-29, 09:57 AM
That's why I said very rarely, not never.
Also template stacking is pretty lame, IMO. Yes, you could explain each one of them away, but then it's supremely obvious that the character fluff was built around the mechanics; either that or you handwave the flavor of the templates away but then why use them?

Sometimes my group plays arena games, inbetween real campaigns. That particular combination hasn't actually happened, though: it was just feral half-ogre barbarian a friend of mine used.

Kylarra
2009-08-29, 10:02 AM
Well there's always
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingleveladjustments.htm
for those that take them in the long run, or have light LAs.

daggaz
2009-08-29, 10:17 AM
yeah, with LA buyback and a campaign that doesnt start at lvl 1, there is almost no mechanical reason at all not to take a LA+1 race, unless you just want the free skillpoints and feat from being human. What with all the books published, and the races freely posted by Wizards, and god forbid even all the homebrew people come up with, you can pretty much cherrypick something that will beat core hands down for your particular build, and you wont even have a penalty for doing it after level 5 or so..

Course, there are some unbalanced LA0 noncore races, as well..

DementedFellow
2009-08-29, 10:24 AM
Course, there are some unbalanced LA0 noncore races, as well..

Warforged springs to mind. It's not broken, but you get a lot of perks from a LA 0 race.

Kroy
2009-08-29, 10:28 AM
Warforged springs to mind. It's not broken, but you get a lot of perks from a LA 0 race.

What about the whisper gnome?

Samb
2009-08-29, 10:31 AM
Some LA races I think are worth the LA.

Half giant and golith boost on melée stats no penalty on WIS and powerful build.

Githyanki, nice stats and amazing PLAs which you get at the pace of a psion.

Elan are aberations, have great PLAs and .......... Oh wait a minute!

Mystic Muse
2009-08-29, 10:53 AM
do catfolk have LA? and what's the LA on a Jann or half-dragon??

DementedFellow
2009-08-29, 10:56 AM
do catfolk have LA? and what's the LA on a Jann or half-dragon??

Catfolk have LA+2
Jann have LA+5

At least that's what google tells me.

Fax Celestis
2009-08-29, 11:25 AM
Catfolk have LA+2
Jann have LA+5

At least that's what google tells me.

Catfolk are LA+1, not +2.

DementedFellow
2009-08-29, 11:31 AM
Catfolk are LA+1, not +2.

My bad. I did a quick search and found this link
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Catfolk_(DnD_Race)
It is a variant race.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-08-29, 11:36 AM
yeah, with LA buyback and a campaign that doesnt start at lvl 1, there is almost no mechanical reason at all not to take a LA+1 race, unless you just want the free skillpoints and feat from being human. What with all the books published, and the races freely posted by Wizards, and god forbid even all the homebrew people come up with, you can pretty much cherrypick something that will beat core hands down for your particular build, and you wont even have a penalty for doing it after level 5 or so..

Course, there are some unbalanced LA0 noncore races, as well.Yeah, because it's not like Core is unbalanced at all, what with Humans and Druids in the same book as Monks and Half-elves.

Sophismata
2009-08-29, 01:26 PM
Elan are aberations, have great PLAs and .......... Oh wait a minute!

I see what you did there.

Cieyrin
2009-08-29, 01:28 PM
Yeah, because it's not like Core is unbalanced at all, what with Humans and Druids in the same book as Monks and Half-elves.

Don't be forgetting the Dwarf, either!

The Glyphstone
2009-08-29, 01:51 PM
Elans: Because Psions just couldn't go nova fast enough already.

Bayar
2009-08-29, 01:58 PM
They're basically levels without levels. A level one character with +2 LA is counted as a level 3 character. A level 4 character with +7 LA is a level 11 character. Generally, you want to avoid it with spellcasters, but melee types can sometimes deal with it.

Well, you could always be a Lumi Cleric...


Lumi (MM3) - My favorite monstrous race. Ever! 2 Racial HD is not bad when they're amazing Outsider HD. Add in good stat bonuses, a bonus feat, and lots of immunities. LOTS OF IMMUNITIES! This race is so worth it.

Mando Knight
2009-08-29, 01:59 PM
do catfolk have LA? and what's the LA on a Jann or half-dragon??

Half Dragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/halfDragon.htm) is +3.

Myrmex
2009-08-29, 02:39 PM
Weeell, there are some exceptions. A feral lolth-touched mineral warrior half-ogre would like to have a word with you. :smallwink:

That's ECL 5 with 1 hitdie? That's awful. You are 4 HD behind everyone else, which means your saves and skill are low. Grease is going to ruinate you, colorspray is going to be deadly until you are ECL 9, Power Words will shut you down. Not worth it, even if you could start at ECL 20.

Any one or two of those on their own would be fine, but losing 4 HD just isn't worth it, especially considering that all of feral's cool features are HD dependent.


Some LA races I think are worth the LA.

Half giant and golith boost on melée stats no penalty on WIS and powerful build.

Githyanki, nice stats and amazing PLAs which you get at the pace of a psion.

Elan are aberations, have great PLAs and .......... Oh wait a minute!

Don't gith also come with racial hit die, though?

Mongoose87
2009-08-29, 02:49 PM
Don't gith also come with racial hit die, though?

Not according to what I've read.