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Samb
2009-08-29, 02:24 PM
The discription of psywar says there can manifest powers as long as they can afford it. EK states this:

"Add to your powers known one additional power of any level up to one level lower than the highest-level power you can manifest. You can choose any power, including powers from another discipline’s list or even from another class’s list."

So does this mean I CAN get level 7-8 powers? Does this mean I can get metamorphosis and schism as early as level 9 instead of 15? I'm confused since psywars don't gain powers at the same rate they can manifest them.

Eloel
2009-08-29, 02:28 PM
I don't see what's so confusing... You can't get the feat till 4th level.
At levels 4-5-6, you can take the feat, and gain a 1st level power from any list. At levels 7-8-9, you gain a 2nd level power from any list
@ 10-11-12, you gain 3rd
@ 13-14-15 you gain 4th
@ 16+, you gain 5th

Myrmex
2009-08-29, 02:31 PM
The discription of psywar says there can manifest powers as long as they can afford it. EK states this:

"Add to your powers known one additional power of any level up to one level lower than the highest-level power you can manifest. You can choose any power, including powers from another discipline’s list or even from another class’s list."

So does this mean I CAN get level 7-8 powers? Does this mean I can get metamorphosis and schism as early as level 9 instead of 15? I'm confused since psywars don't gain powers at the same rate they can manifest them.

Let's see, if you are a level 20 psiwarrior, the highest level power you can manifest is 6th, so with expanded knowledge, the highest level power you can learn is 5th.

Samb
2009-08-29, 02:33 PM
From SRD:
"A psychic warrior can manifest any power that has a power point cost equal to or lower than his manifester level."

So a level 5 psywar could manifest level 3 powers (like if it was implanted with psychic chiurgery) even though he can only select level 2 powers.

According to the bolded part of EK, he should be able to pick level 2 powers, not level 1 powers. See how this is confusing?

Samb
2009-08-29, 02:36 PM
Let's see, if you are a level 20 psiwarrior, the highest level power you can manifest is 6th, so with expanded knowledge, the highest level power you can learn is 5th.

No, it's not that easy. According to srd's description of what a psywar can manifest, a level 17 psy war could manifest level 9 powers. Which means at level 18 he could select level 8 powers, since EK is based on what you could manifest, not what you could select.

Myrmex
2009-08-29, 02:42 PM
It says the same thing in the EPH, too. Interesting.

Draz74
2009-08-29, 02:42 PM
I think "able to manifest" also includes having to know the power involved. A Level 15 Psion still can't learn a 7th-level power with EK unless he's learned an 8th-level Power Known.

Even if I'm proved to be incorrect about the RAW strictly supporting this, IMHO it's a blatant rules-lawyer distortion of the exact wording of the rules. On a level with enforcing the Monk not being proficient with unarmed strikes.

Samb
2009-08-29, 03:01 PM
Another issue is psychic chiurgy. By RAW you could implant a power of 9th lvl into the mind of a 17th level psywar and he could manifest it. Would this then mean "able to manifest"? And hence able to use EK to gain 6-8 level spells?

This is kind of a big deal since psywars have crappy 5-6th level powers and you can't get temporal acceleration with EK if you go by the RAI.

woodenbandman
2009-08-29, 03:14 PM
Well, you can use the option described in the psionics section to manifest powers from the powers known lists of other psionic classes. I dunno. I'd say it's DM call, and probably shouldn't be allowed because Psychic Warrior isn't supposed to have access to 9th level powers.

Samb
2009-08-29, 03:20 PM
No matter how you look at it, it appears that psywar can use 7-9th level powers if chiurgery is used, but if they are able to select 6-8th powers with EK or not (and if a chiurgery is needed) is up for debate.

Myrmex
2009-08-29, 03:31 PM
No matter how you look at it, it appears that psywar can use 7-9th level powers if chiurgery is used, but if they are able to select 6-8th powers with EK or not (and if a chiurgery is needed) is up for debate.

Well, with chiurgery, there is no doubt that EK can let you learn up to 8th level powers.

olentu
2009-08-29, 05:42 PM
Psychic chirurgery has a similar limitation in that it can only give one knowledge of a power of any level that one can manifest and so ends up in the same situation as adding a power one level lower than the highest-level power one can manifest. So I would think that psychic chirurgery would not clear anything up.

Samb
2009-08-29, 05:55 PM
"Can/able to manifest" is the crux of this debate then. If can means: has high enough ML to manifest it, then EK and chiergury can give you better powers. If it means: you must have a power of that level, then no you can't.