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Paganboy28
2009-08-29, 05:45 PM
Ok... so I am going to have to be a blaster...

Can't be psionic so no Kineticists of such.

Sorcerers/Wizards are good I know but always them.

Can't be an Artificer due to lack of downtime.


I'm guessing the Warmage is the next best arcane blaster.....

At level 8, 4 feats:

Energy Substitution - bit more flexible
Split Ray - extra damage, and can combine with Reach Spell.
Reach Spell - obvious
Silent Spell - anti-zone of silence spells.


However, what to do against a Golem or anything immune to magic (apart from cry and hide).

Boci
2009-08-29, 05:48 PM
Ok... so I am going to have to be a blaster...

Can't be psionic so no Kineticists of such.

Sorcerers/Wizards are good I know but always them.

Can't be an Artificer due to lack of downtime.


I'm guessing the Warmage is the next best arcane blaster.....

At level 8, 4 feats:

Energy Substitution - bit more flexible
Split Ray - extra damage, and can combine with Reach Spell.
Reach Spell - obvious
Silent Spell - anti-zone of silence spells.


However, what to do against a Golem or anything immune to magic (apart from cry and hide).

Warmage is pretty weak, but if your really sick of serceror, then go for it. Take rapid metamagic to be able to apply mm without increasing casting time, however if your warmage you may not need energy substituion. As for golems, certain energy types can slow them.

kamikasei
2009-08-29, 05:49 PM
"Immune to magic" means "immune to spells that allow SR", so throw non-SR effects at them - the Orbs, if you've got Complete Arcane or the Spell Compendium. - Which I assume you have if you're talking about Warmage.

Mongoose87
2009-08-29, 05:49 PM
The best blaster I've ever seen was an Ultimate Magus. Using those spell slots to power your metamagic makes for some pretty big boom booms.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-08-29, 05:49 PM
Blast the floor, watch them fall? You might need something other than a strict "blast" to do that, though. Alternatively, just use Orb of Force and its kin. Those ignore magic immunity, since immunity is basically infinite spell resistance. Try collapsing the ceiling.

Fax Celestis
2009-08-29, 05:53 PM
Why arcane? Druids make great blasters.

Korivan
2009-08-29, 05:54 PM
You can always go warlock and pick up the feats to quicken, maximise, empower spell like abilities. With Hellfire PrC, a pair of bracers and you should be able to pump out some nice cover fire.

quick_comment
2009-08-29, 05:58 PM
I have it on good authority that golems, like everything else that cant cast, are weak against forcecage.

Boci
2009-08-29, 06:06 PM
You can always go warlock and pick up the feats to quicken, maximise, empower spell like abilities. With Hellfire PrC, a pair of bracers and you should be able to pump out some nice cover fire.

Good idea, but I've heard dragon fire adept is better than the warlock.

Korivan
2009-08-29, 06:10 PM
wheres this dragon fire adapt found?

Mando Knight
2009-08-29, 06:11 PM
Why arcane? Druids make great blasters.

:smallconfused: Explain, please? I've heard Druids being called many things, but blaster was never one of them.

Orb spells should still damage targets that have Spell Immunity, since that ability only protects against spells that allow SR, IIRC.

Fax Celestis
2009-08-29, 06:23 PM
:smallconfused: Explain, please? I've heard Druids being called many things, but blaster was never one of them.

Lessee...Wildshape into something small and mobile, like an eagle. 80' fly speed, awesome. Take Natural Spell. Proceed to cast things like (from core) call lightning, call lightning storm, control winds, earthquake, fire seeds, fire storm (a full level before clerics can), flame strike (same here), ice storm, produce flame, storm of vengeance, sunburst, sunbeam, wall of fire, or whirlwind.

Outside of core, you get things like sandblast, blinding spittle, saltray, splinterbolt, quillfire, spiritjaws, arc of lightning, sudden stalagmite, vortex of teeth, inferno, combust, cometfall, storm of elemental fury, bombardment, transmute rock to lava, and ice lance too.

Jack Zander
2009-08-29, 06:25 PM
And many of the druid's spells are reusable, like produce flame. Blasters usually run out of usefulness pretty early. Not the druid. Also, druid can always wade into melee if he runs out of spells. Arcane casters are pretty much done when their spells run dry.

Keld Denar
2009-08-29, 08:52 PM
If you want to be a single target blaster, some kind of Arcane Rogue build would be great. Unseen Seer is pretty much the best combination PrC you can get, and Arcane Trickster and even Spellwarped Sniper is ok to add to that. Unseen Seer gives you the spell Hunter's Eye (SpC, Rng2) which gives you even more SA that you can stack on top of your favorite RTA attack. It wouldn't be uncommon for 10th level character to cast an Orb spell with 10d6 base + 7d6 SA, and if you use Spellthief (with the Master Spellthief feat) as your base, you can also yoink spells from enemy casters to fuel your fire!

If you are starting at moderate levels, Shadowcraft Mage actually makes a very effective blaster. With nearly unlimited versatility for energy types and shapes and flavors, you can really go all out. Add in a little Residual Metamatic and you can set up some great 1-2 punches to get the most bang out of your lower level spell slots. DCs are often higher than standard blasters thanks to Earth Spell shananananananigans, and your CL is almost always capped out due again to Earth Spell shanananananananigans. SR is seldom a problem due to your hyperinflated CL as well, although Golems and other immunes might vex you a bit. Toward late game, you can actually cast nukes 1-2 spell levels early, and make spells that are MORE real than reality, which is fun to screw people with really high saves.

Fax Celestis
2009-08-30, 12:14 AM
If you want to be a single target blaster, some kind of Arcane Rogue build would be great. Unseen Seer is pretty much the best combination PrC you can get, and Arcane Trickster and even Spellwarped Sniper is ok to add to that. Unseen Seer gives you the spell Hunter's Eye (SpC, Rng2) which gives you even more SA that you can stack on top of your favorite RTA attack. It wouldn't be uncommon for 10th level character to cast an Orb spell with 10d6 base + 7d6 SA, and if you use Spellthief (with the Master Spellthief feat) as your base, you can also yoink spells from enemy casters to fuel your fire!

I'm a fan of reach wracking touch with this. Your touch attack deals 4d6 and automatically triggers sneak attack. Mmm.

Paganboy28
2009-08-30, 04:15 AM
Mutliclassing would lose casting levels though. I guess I could take the Practiced Spellcaster feat, but that doesn't replace spell slots or spells per day.

I have been a rogue/warlock combo before which was quite fun. Invisibility at will and sneak attack combo's, plus being able to fly as well as other invocations were quite useful.


Where's the rule about Golems being affected by orbs and such? Our DM just says they are "immune to ALL spells". This makes them hard to kill for a caster.....


Seeing as I am being pidgeon-holed into a blaster, I want to be the uber-blaster to destroy anything that is thrown at us. The reason for taking Energy Substitution is its a pre-requisite for Energy Admixture which effectively doubles the damage of energy spell (ok its four metamagic levels....) but in theory it should be good.



How about the Havoc Mage from the Miniature's Handbook? Battlecast allows you to take a full round action to cast a spell and attack. So I am assuming this means I could make a range spell attack and then fire my bow all in the same round.

Boci
2009-08-30, 04:30 AM
Where's the rule about Golems being affected by orbs and such? Our DM just says they are "immune to ALL spells". This makes them hard to kill for a caster.....

Golems discription of magic immunity. Your DM just bumped up their power level. Also, ask him how they are immune to the spell grease. I want to hear that explenation.


Seeing as I am being pidgeon-holed into a blaster, I want to be the uber-blaster to destroy anything that is thrown at us. The reason for taking Energy Substitution is its a pre-requisite for Energy Admixture which effectively doubles the damage of energy spell (ok its four metamagic levels....) but in theory it should be good.

I'd take twin spell over energy admixture. Remeber easy metamagic can lower the cost. Occular spell is also a decent choice, and it stacks well with split ray.

Paganboy28
2009-08-30, 04:48 AM
Frostmage from Frostburn has the Cold Piercing ability which automatically passes all resistances and immunities to cold from spells and spell-like effects.

This seems pretty good to me. Plus Frostmages get a Natural Armour bonus which is always good.

Not sure I would take it to 10th level though. Dip into for 4th level then something else.

Keld Denar
2009-08-30, 05:01 AM
Spell Immunity works exactly like it says in the DMG.



A creature with spell immunity avoids the effects of spells and spell-like abilities that directly affect it. This works exactly like spell resistance, except that it cannot be overcome. Sometimes spell immunity is conditional or applies to only spells of a certain kind or level. Spells that do not allow spell resistance are not affected by spell immunity.


Citation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#spellImmunity)

So...about 9/10 spells from the Conjouration school work on golems just fine. That includes golden oldies like Web, Grease, and Glitterdust, as well as the entire Orb line and other croud pleasers like Solid and Freezing Fogs.

And the Arcane Rogue hinted at only loses 1 CL which, on a wizard chasis, puts it on par with sorcerous progression and if you go with Focused Specialist, you'll have as many spells as the sorcerer to boot. Just nab Practiced Spellcaster to offset the CL loss from your Rogue or Spellthief dip along with the CL (but not spellcaster level) loss associated with Unseen Seer. Make sure you pick up Hunter's Eye from USS and probably Grave Strike so you can maximize your SA/hit and be able to SA undead with spells.

Emy
2009-08-30, 05:34 AM
Lessee...Wildshape into something small and mobile, like an eagle. 80' fly speed, awesome. Take Natural Spell. Proceed to cast things like (from core) call lightning, call lightning storm, control winds, earthquake, fire seeds, fire storm (a full level before clerics can), flame strike (same here), ice storm, produce flame, storm of vengeance, sunburst, sunbeam, wall of fire, or whirlwind.

Outside of core, you get things like sandblast, blinding spittle, saltray, splinterbolt, quillfire, spiritjaws, arc of lightning, sudden stalagmite, vortex of teeth, inferno, combust, cometfall, storm of elemental fury, bombardment, transmute rock to lava, and ice lance too.

And, y'know... venomfire, venomfire, venomfire, venomfire, venomfire. It's not exactly a blast, but it sure deals a lot of damage.

Paganboy28
2009-08-30, 06:04 AM
http://privateerpress.com/warmachine/gallery/retribution-of-scyrah/warcasters/adeptis-rahn

Inspiration for arcane blaster...

How would you create a character like this?

Kzickas
2009-08-30, 06:17 AM
And, y'know... venomfire, venomfire, venomfire, venomfire, venomfire. It's not exactly a blast, but it sure deals a lot of damage.

I have heard from reliable sources that venomfire is in fact a blast :smalltongue:

Paganboy28
2009-08-30, 06:23 AM
I have heard from reliable sources that venomfire is in fact a blast :smalltongue:

It has a range of touch and needs the affected person/creature to produce natural poison.

So unless you buff it up with Reach Spell and somehow implant venom glands into a character.....

Keld Denar
2009-08-30, 06:24 AM
Hmmm, the graphic would suggest some kind of gish. Wear some decent armor and wield a big 2hander while buffing yourself and laying the royal smackdown with Power Attack.

Reading the discription, it actually sounds more like a Wizard/ArgentSavant/ForceMissileMage who spends a lot of his spell slots on [Force] descriptor spells. Wouldn't be a terribly bad build as long as you counted both of the PrCs as full casting like they should be....its retarded that they aren't.


It has a range of touch and needs the affected person/creature to produce natural poison.

So unless you buff it up with Reach Spell and somehow implant venom glands into a character.....

Except that...you know, its a DRUID SPELL. And you know...druids get ANIMAL COMPANIONS. And some of those even get poison attacks (the main culprit being Fleshraker dinosaurs, although its strong even with a venomous snake or similar).

Paganboy28
2009-08-30, 06:33 AM
Hmmm, the graphic would suggest some kind of gish. Wear some decent armor and wield a big 2hander while buffing yourself and laying the royal smackdown with Power Attack.

Reading the discription, it actually sounds more like a Wizard/ArgentSavant/ForceMissileMage who spends a lot of his spell slots on [Force] descriptor spells. Wouldn't be a terribly bad build as long as you counted both of the PrCs as full casting like they should be....its retarded that they aren't.

I was thinking along the same lines, though Force spells and such don't tend to be as blasty compared to some of the other conjuraton/evocation blasti-goodness.

Warmage with Battlecaster to get heavy armour?




Except that...you know, its a DRUID SPELL. And you know...druids get ANIMAL COMPANIONS. And some of those even get poison attacks (the main culprit being Fleshraker dinosaurs, although its strong even with a venomous snake or similar).

Yes thanks. I was thinking along the same lines as this actually, but as a pure blasty spell its not the "norm". Not in the same "point and boom" theme as blasters.

Bayar
2009-08-30, 06:37 AM
Wouldnt it be easier to be an artificier and burn through wands like they were nothing ? And blow a bigass crater with that multi metamagic infused wand of big kabooms that consumes all the charges for thousands of damage ?

Yeah, you would need to use those kinds of attacks against dragons to steal their horde so you would have cash for new wands, but I wanna know if there are any bigger one shot cannons out there...

Paganboy28
2009-08-30, 07:19 AM
Wouldnt it be easier to be an artificier and burn through wands like they were nothing ? And blow a bigass crater with that multi metamagic infused wand of big kabooms that consumes all the charges for thousands of damage ?

Yeah, you would need to use those kinds of attacks against dragons to steal their horde so you would have cash for new wands, but I wanna know if there are any bigger one shot cannons out there...


As stated previously, I WAS an Artificer but the DM was concerned about the downtime and so I had to make a new character. Artificer without sufficient downtime to create magic items is going to be underpowered. Especially as you put it "burning through wands".

Leon
2009-08-30, 07:36 AM
http://privateerpress.com/warmachine/gallery/retribution-of-scyrah/warcasters/adeptis-rahn

Inspiration for arcane blaster...

How would you create a character like this?

From what little Iv'e gathered on him, Lots of Force based spells and movement spells (Slide, Telekinesis etc) - i'd have to wait till i have the book to try and determine what class he actually would be based off.

Rhan is nice but i like
Original Mittens (http://privateerpress.com/warmachine/gallery/retribution-of-scyrah/solos/house-shyeel-magister) better

Paganboy28
2009-08-30, 09:50 AM
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19977429/196_Magic_Missiles_Per_Round?post_id=343705325#343 705325

This seems an interesting blaster build.

9mm
2009-08-30, 10:15 AM
If gleemax is up, go look for a build called "the mailman," then go have a ball.

Cieyrin
2009-08-30, 10:25 AM
From what little Iv'e gathered on him, Lots of Force based spells and movement spells (Slide, Telekinesis etc) - i'd have to wait till i have the book to try and determine what class he actually would be based off.

Rhan is nice but i like Original Mittens (http://privateerpress.com/warmachine/gallery/retribution-of-scyrah/solos/house-shyeel-magister) better

Master of the Unseen Hand is interesting if you can get around the lack of spell advancement, which is what Mittens sounds like to me.:smalltongue:

As for the Warcaster, they have the Warcaster armor statted out in the Iron Kingdoms Player Guide, which pretty much covers continuing going whatever flavor of blaster caster you were without having to do silly things like Battle Caster Warmage. Without the book, straight Warmage in Mithril Fullplate will work fine, though you could easily go Battle Sorcerer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#sorcererVariantBattleS orcerer) with Battle Caster for the same effect and a bit more versatility as well, as you're not as limited in your spell selection that way.

Them's my 2 coppers. Take as you will.

Paganboy28
2009-08-30, 10:44 AM
Hmm...

Hypothetical situation. But if a DM allowed a Sorcerer/Warlock or Warmage/Warlock to take Ultimate Magus as the PrC would that make a good blaster?


Or what about the Eldritch Theurge. Warlock EB for base at will blasting and then use the arcane side for the uber blasting.

Sliver
2009-08-30, 10:46 AM
As stated previously, I WAS an Artificer but the DM was concerned about the downtime and so I had to make a new character. Artificer without sufficient downtime to create magic items is going to be underpowered. Especially as you put it "burning through wands".

But there is that one Homunculus, Dedicated Wright, that crafts in your place, and you just need to make those UMD checks.. You can put it in a portable hole.. No need for down time then..

Mongoose87
2009-08-30, 10:53 AM
Hmm...

Hypothetical situation. But if a DM allowed a Sorcerer/Warlock or Warmage/Warlock to take Ultimate Magus as the PrC would that make a good blaster?

Not really. The big advantage of Ultimate Magus is that you can fuel metamagic with slots from your spontaneous casting class. There's none of that here.

Paganboy28
2009-08-30, 10:55 AM
But there is that one Homunculus, Dedicated Wright, that crafts in your place, and you just need to make those UMD checks.. You can put it in a portable hole.. No need for down time then..

Did that, but it would still take too may days to create/replace stuff that I was burning through.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-08-30, 11:16 AM
If gleemax is up, go look for a build called "the mailman," then go have a ball.

1) Mailman was mentioned before.
2) Mailman uses Dragon Magazine, which I have never seen allowed in a game I've played or considered playing. Various GMs would be flexible and allow it (sort of like homebrew material), but if I'm trying for a power build, pushing the limits of allowance is generally a poor idea.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-08-30, 11:18 AM
Well, this (http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/profiler/view_char.php?cid=22841) is non-Dragon, but it pushes the limit too...

Doc Roc
2009-08-30, 11:54 AM
How would you create a character like this?

Man, but I hate the elves in freaking Warmachine. :: sighs ::

Okay, so there's an excellent build called Jean Grey (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870578/Xmens_Jean_Grey_or_how_to_be_silly_with_MotUH).

Doc Roc
2009-08-30, 11:55 AM
1) Mailman was mentioned before.
2) Mailman uses Dragon Magazine, which I have never seen allowed in a game I've played or considered playing. Various GMs would be flexible and allow it (sort of like homebrew material), but if I'm trying for a power build, pushing the limits of allowance is generally a poor idea.

The core of the mailman does not use it. All it uses from dragon is the knowstones, and that's only because it predated runestaves and drake-helms.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-08-30, 11:58 AM
?
I could have sworn...
Must have started reading one line and finished reading another. That's what careless skimming and the new WotC forum setup does to a fellow.

Paul H
2009-08-30, 04:51 PM
Hi

I agree that Warmages seem to be the best Blasters - all those damaging spells, with added damage for high Int.

Warlocks also been mentioned - Vitriolic Blast doesn't allow SR, plus some good abilities.

Cheers
Paul H

Paul H
2009-08-30, 05:15 PM
Hi

In addition to my last post - Argent Savant. Warmages can make this at 12th lvl.

Pro: Force Specialisation - +1 dam per dice for Force spells. (In addition to Edge/Extra Edge.
Con: No CL gain at first level.

So Warmage 11/AS 1, Edge & Extra Edge, Int 22. Orb of Force Dam 10D6+19.

Cheers
Paul H

ShadowsGrnEyes
2009-08-30, 05:26 PM
Dragonfire Adept.

Dragon Magic, page 24.

breath weapon. . . every round. . . plus natural armor and DR/magic. . .access to invocations. . .

and the breath weapon. . . yeah not a spell or even a spell-like ability, a supernatural ability.

eat that spell resistance.

Keld Denar
2009-08-30, 05:29 PM
I'd like to respectfully disagree that warmages are the best blasters. Just because you blast in every flavor of the rainbow doesn't mean you are a good blaster. A sorcerer makes a better blaster since you only need 2-3 blasty spells and the rest can be utility/BC/etc. What does a Warmage do against invisible foes? Your only option is to gear for See Invis/TrueSight or carpet bomb with AoEs and hope to hit something? Nope, a Sorcerer with say...Scorching Ray for close single target, Fireball for long range, and maybe Orb of Force for Incorps/Immunes and then some metamagic feats and metamagic reducers is gonna get much more mileage out of those 3 spells than a standard warmage will any day of the week. Sacrificing ALL of your versitility so you can crap a rainbow of damage does not an effective blaster make.

woodenbandman
2009-08-30, 05:34 PM
I recommend Arcane Thesis. Blasters like damage and metamagic and Arcane Thesis does both well. Also there was a feat in some faerun book that took away level based caps on stuff like damage, look into that.

lsfreak
2009-08-30, 05:34 PM
Agree with Keld. Sorcerers and wizards make much better blasters than warmages. Warmages have the advantage of "near-zero bookkeeping," and if you're starting at high levels they have the advantage of being a Rainbow Servant. Other than that, sorcerers and wizards have similar spells per day, more versatility (even in the realm of blasting, mostly do to splats since warmage is limited to complete arcane and core spells), and things like Celerity, familiars and Arcane Fusion to break the action economy.

Doc Roc
2009-08-30, 07:53 PM
Gonna throw in. War Mages are wretchedly bad. I've made a number of suggestions across the threads, but:

I think you should consider Sorcerer -> War Mage (from Age of Mortals). It's like a Warmage except better in every way!

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-08-30, 09:38 PM
I'll toss in another vote for Warlock/Dragonfire Adept. At-Will blastomancy, in any flavor you care to have, with status effects going along for the ride in addition to the damage, is just plain fun. Doing it an unlimited number of times per day makes even more fun.

And, of course, particularly with Dragonfire Adept... Entangling Exhalation... now you are battlefield control AND blastomancy.

Paganboy28
2009-08-31, 05:37 AM
I have discussed Warlock's at-will blasts vs Sorcerer limited blasts with the DM before. He has come to the conclusion that he prefers fewer, bigger encounters than smaller, more frequent encounters.

As such the sorcerer/wizard would seem to fit more than the warlock. Being able to do 10d6 in one round is better than 1d6 over 10 rounds. However, I do like the warlock class as its always good to have at-will ranged touch attacks (without relying on ammo) as well as at-will 24/7 buffs and other nifty bits.

This is why I am considering the Eldritch Theurge PrC. It advances both warlock and the arcane side together like most theurge classes. So in theory I should be able to use the warlock side for every-day blasting and the arcane side for uber-blasting with mm feats and utility/battle control.

Since sorcerer's get no benefit other than spells increasing as they level, I see no reason why not to take a PrC. The familiar is not so important and I'd probably take the Battle Sorcerer variant in Unearthed Arcana (however I might negotiate with the DM to change the loss in spells for a reduction of HD to a d6 instead of d8).
This would save me a feat so that I can cast in armour (light armour... probably Mithril something), I can use a martial weapon so I am not entirely useless in combat (plus I like greatswords).


If I go wizard on the arcane side then I get les spells but more versitility. For some reason I have a strong dislike of having to prepare spells and so I tend to avoid prepared casters. Maybe its because I cannot foresee the future. I know there are feats that give me some spontenaity but they don't seem to alleviate my disdain. However, its a possiblity.

I don't think the Wu Jen would be allowed since we are not in an oriental adventure but they are similar to a wizard so the same issues arise.

Beguiler isn't really a blaster so I don't think they are in the running (though having the enemy fight for me is appealing, we seem to have a knack of fighting undead, golems, and other "immune" baddies).

Warmage would seem in principle to be a good fit. Additional damage, lots of blasty spells, can wear armour, etc. However, they don't have a lot of flexibility even with Advanced Learning.


So how about sorcerer 4/warlock 4/Eldritch Theurge 10/MT 2

The last 2 could be used for Hellfire Warlock to boost blasting or maybe Incantatrix for metamagic.


Warlock 4 gives me Decieve Item which is useful for magic items.

Burley
2009-08-31, 06:35 AM
I'm just gonna throw this out there. I know a lot of people hate on blasters, because, theoretically, they aren't as good as other genres of casters. But, in game, in a fight, I venture to say that most players are gonna be happy that you're rolling damage dice, instead of hoping something fails a save. So, I say, go for the Warmage.
I played a Warmage once. I overwhelmingly trounced everything that came at me, because Orb of Sound (and/or Acid) is amazing. If you want to be a blaster, this is the way to do it. You're a glass cannon, though. A warlock while not putting out quite as much damage per round, can survive and evade a lot more hits than you, and outlast you as a caster.
But, here's where it gets fun. Read up on the Rainbow Servant PrC. It takes a little while to get into (I think 9th level) but the class features add all cleric spells to your spell list. This means that, on top of your limited blaster-caster list, you have then ENTIRE cleric list at your disposal whenever you want. No preparing. Just say "This would be useful" and do it. Healing, hurting, sanctuary-ing, resurecting. Anything.

Paganboy28
2009-08-31, 07:46 AM
But, here's where it gets fun. Read up on the Rainbow Servant PrC. It takes a little while to get into (I think 9th level) but the class features add all cleric spells to your spell list. This means that, on top of your limited blaster-caster list, you have then ENTIRE cleric list at your disposal whenever you want. No preparing. Just say "This would be useful" and do it. Healing, hurting, sanctuary-ing, resurecting. Anything.

10th Level Rainbow Servent. That is a very good ability and also quite scary! Even though it would take a while to get to.

Jury is still out on warmage vs sorcerer.

Doc Roc
2009-08-31, 10:12 AM
Okay, here's the deal:
War-mage doesn't get a lot of spells that I consider to be essential to the life of a blaster. But the relevance of this varies based on what you do and don't have available as books. For example, the most recent version of the Orbs, found in SpC, does not put them on the War Mage list. This means that your GM may argue that they aren't on the war-mage lists. Without the orbs, the war-mage is little more than a cripple.

Rainbow Servant is wildly debated over whether or not text trumps table. If it does, there's not a compelling reason to not play a Rainbow Warmage. With early entry, you can drop into RBS very early, arounc ECL 2. Take a look over at gleemax for some details. As a result of this, you can become a fully operational two-list caster much earlier than you could or should be able to.


Sorcerers have a number of core advantages over War-Mages. They aren't unplayable out of the gate, for example, they don't need a runestaff and a drake-helm just to live, and they get almost as many spells per day. They benefit more from a wide-range of PrCs, offer more utility to the group, and can class into the wildly better War Mage PrC from Age of Mortals.

Amen, Hallelujah, Peanut butter.

Fax Celestis
2009-08-31, 11:51 AM
Sorcerers have a number of core advantages over War-Mages. They aren't unplayable out of the gate, for example, they don't need a runestaff and a drake-helm just to live, and they get almost as many spells per day. They benefit more from a wide-range of PrCs, offer more utility to the group, and can class into the wildly better War Mage PrC from Age of Mortals.

If you're talking runestaves, why not just play a beguiler with a runestaff of fire?

Bayar
2009-08-31, 12:48 PM
As stated previously, I WAS an Artificer but the DM was concerned about the downtime and so I had to make a new character. Artificer without sufficient downtime to create magic items is going to be underpowered. Especially as you put it "burning through wands".

Get a Dedicated Wright, order it to make a magic item, throw him into your portable hole, go to the tavern and celebrate.

Sliver
2009-08-31, 12:58 PM
Get a Dedicated Wright, order it to make a magic item, throw him into your portable hole, go to the tavern and celebrate.

Ehm.. tl;dr much?


But there is that one Homunculus, Dedicated Wright, that crafts in your place, and you just need to make those UMD checks.. You can put it in a portable hole.. No need for down time then..


Did that, but it would still take too may days to create/replace stuff that I was burning through.

Optimystik
2009-08-31, 01:28 PM
Why arcane? Druids make great blasters.

In addition, don't they have some spells specifically designed to hate on constructs? Or am I misremembering?

Fax Celestis
2009-08-31, 01:34 PM
In addition, don't they have some spells specifically designed to hate on constructs? Or am I misremembering?

They do. Lots of rust/wood warp stuff, though a lot of it is SpC.

Doc Roc
2009-08-31, 02:00 PM
I said sorcerers DON'T need drakehelms. They like them, but don't need them. Turns out that in the wider-world of actual game play with multiple allowed sourcebooks, Sorcerers are pretty rockin'

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-08-31, 05:10 PM
I'm just gonna throw this out there. I know a lot of people hate on blasters, because, theoretically, they aren't as good as other genres of casters. But, in game, in a fight, I venture to say that most players are gonna be happy that you're rolling damage dice, instead of hoping something fails a save. So, I say, go for the Warmage.
I played a Warmage once. I overwhelmingly trounced everything that came at me, because Orb of Sound (and/or Acid) is amazing. If you want to be a blaster, this is the way to do it. You're a glass cannon, though. A warlock while not putting out quite as much damage per round, can survive and evade a lot more hits than you, and outlast you as a caster.Blasting is suboptimal because you're doing the same thing that any other class can do, which is damage. If you want to damage, play a Fighter. If you really want to blast, though, play a Sorcerer. A blaster generally needs 3 spells(no-save no-sr single target, AoE damage, and Force damage). The best options for those spells(Wings of Flurry) aren't on the Warmage lists. Blasters also need defensive spells(invisibility, fly) and utility spells(Dispel) to allow them to live long enough to blast. The Warmage gets none of those. All the Warmage gets you is the ability to toss 4 colors of d6 instead of 1. Sorc is better.

Doc Roc
2009-08-31, 05:37 PM
Also, blasters don't get some of the absolute best spells in the game for damage:

Maw of Chaos
Streamers
Unicorn Arrow

AND! Depending on your GM's charity, they may no longer get the Orb spells. As though they needed a nerf. Never mind that they don't get celerity. Why is there always someone defending every single class? War Mages just aren't that great. I mean, you can have a lot of fun with their flavor, but functionally they have zero orthogonality with Sorcerers if you just buy a couple of energy substitution rods, and a couple of Empowered Spellshards from MIC.

herceg
2009-09-01, 01:16 AM
If you're talking runestaves, why not just play a beguiler with a runestaff of fire?

Aren't runestaves spell-trigger items? O.o

(or at least, I think they do work like spell-trigger items)

Zaq
2009-09-01, 02:04 AM
Also, blasters don't get some of the absolute best spells in the game for damage:

Maw of Chaos
Streamers
Unicorn Arrow


Maw and Unicorn Arrows I know, but what book is Streamers from?

Doc Roc
2009-09-01, 02:07 AM
Aren't runestaves spell-trigger items? O.o

(or at least, I think they do work like spell-trigger items)

Kinda. It's actually that they generally have to contain spells already on your spell list. There's some controversy as to how this interacts with UMD, but my general rule is that it doesn't. Runestaves, as a result, are almost useless for a war-mage unless your GM is being nice, which I went ahead and assumed he or she would be doing. Because really, you're playing a freaking war-mage.

I will give many free internets to anyone who can discern a solidly RAW way to trick around that constraint in a runestaff.

Cyclocone
2009-09-01, 02:17 AM
I second the notion that warmages are awfull.

I remeber there was a thread about it on gleemax once, just google "warmages blow goats for pocket change" and you should be able to find it.

Draz74
2009-09-01, 02:19 AM
I'd like to add another vote for Dragonfire Adept (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060912a&page=2). One of the two best-designed caster classes in the game. (The other is the Ardent.)

Oh yeah, and it's free online. Except for guessing a couple of details of the Invocations, everything you need is in that link.

Doc Roc
2009-09-01, 02:20 AM
I'll save you the time. (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19869150/Warmages_Blow_Goats_For_Pocket_Change_OR_Why_You_S hould_Play_A_Sorcerer_Instead?num=10&pg=1) Here is the thread. Please please please read it. I know it's written in a fairly adversarial tone, but it covers eloquently a lot of the core issues.


Alternatively, oh my lord do I LOVE Ardent.

Draz74
2009-09-01, 02:28 AM
Alternatively, oh my lord do I LOVE Ardent.

As you should. :smallwink: But it doesn't work for this guy ... he said Psionics are out. (How good is an Ardent blaster anyway? Hmmm, time to look through the Mantles I'm less familiar with ...)

Sophismata
2009-09-01, 02:30 AM
I will give many free internets to anyone who can discern a solidly RAW way to trick around that constraint in a runestaff.

A single level of Cleric with the Magic domain should allow you to use spell completion and spell trigger items from both Cleric and Wizard lists.

Doc Roc
2009-09-01, 02:37 AM
Is it clear that runestaves fall into either of those categories?

Doc Roc
2009-09-01, 02:38 AM
As you should. :smallwink: But it doesn't work for this guy ... he said Psionics are out. (How good is an Ardent blaster anyway? Hmmm, time to look through the Mantles I'm less familiar with ...)

EK:Biofeedback + Solicit Psicrystal = done.

Draz74
2009-09-01, 02:41 AM
EK:Biofeedback + Solicit Psicrystal = done.

I fail to understand this combo. What does either of these have to do with blasting?

Doc Roc
2009-09-01, 02:47 AM
Sorry, I believe I was thinking of Energy Current (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Energy_Current).

For some reason, I get the two mixed up. Probably due to the idea of circuitry cross-talk or something stupid like that. Um. Basically, it centers on snagging a psi-crystal, and transferring concentration to it via solicit psicrystal, then putting up your own. Properly laid out, this can make anything but a hellfire warlock look unreliable.

There's a full build somewhere on gleemux. You can also use feat leech + psychic reformation on your psicrystal to reduce the load in terms of feat costs.... suddenly, it's carrying a fat stack of Expanded Knowledges for you to leech... How odd.

mint
2009-09-01, 02:52 AM
Maw and Unicorn Arrows I know, but what book is Streamers from?

Shining South, its a forgotten realms book.

Draz74
2009-09-01, 02:58 AM
Sorry, I believe I was thinking of Energy Current (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Energy_Current).
... and immediately everything is clear. :smallsmile:


You can also use feat leech + psychic reformation on your psicrystal to reduce the load in terms of feat costs.... suddenly, it's carrying a fat stack of Expanded Knowledges for you to leech... How odd.

Yikes. Now that is scary munchkinism. But admirably so. :smallwink:

Doc Roc
2009-09-01, 03:33 AM
Psicrystals are sooooooo nice.

Wings of Peace
2009-09-01, 03:58 AM
I'll save you the time. (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19869150/Warmages_Blow_Goats_For_Pocket_Change_OR_Why_You_S hould_Play_A_Sorcerer_Instead?num=10&pg=1) Here is the thread. Please please please read it. I know it's written in a fairly adversarial tone, but it covers eloquently a lot of the core issues.


Alternatively, oh my lord do I LOVE Ardent.

Everyone should refer to page 2 of that thread for Logic Ninja's epic reply to Khan.

Doc Roc
2009-09-01, 04:05 AM
I can go to bed now. Still laughing. Thanks for point that out, Wings. :)

Paganboy28
2009-09-01, 05:38 AM
Blasting is suboptimal because you're doing the same thing that any other class can do, which is damage. If you want to damage, play a Fighter. If you really want to blast, though, play a Sorcerer. A blaster generally needs 3 spells(no-save no-sr single target, AoE damage, and Force damage). The best options for those spells(Wings of Flurry) aren't on the Warmage lists. Blasters also need defensive spells(invisibility, fly) and utility spells(Dispel) to allow them to live long enough to blast. The Warmage gets none of those. All the Warmage gets you is the ability to toss 4 colors of d6 instead of 1. Sorc is better.

I don't like fighters... I hate melee, someone steals or breaks my weapons I cry, and big armour is like painting a big target on yourself and saying "hit me"....

I like ranged blasting combat, combined with a bit of utility and defence and battlefield control. Hence why I am currently a druid/warlock/arcane heirophant combo.

The warmage was just an idea and one that is losing its appeal. Warmage Edge isn't that great without having to dump stats into Charisma AND Intelligence.

And whats wrong with causing damage??? You say it like causing damage is a bad thing. It's all well and good being able to heal, control the battlefield, etc but at the end of the day a dead (not undead...) enemy is a lot less painful than a living enemy. The faster it can go down the better...

You know there different ways to play classes...

Omegonthesane
2009-09-01, 05:41 AM
I don't like fighters... I hate melee, someone steals or breaks my weapons I cry, and big armour is like painting a big target on yourself and saying "hit me"....

I like ranged blasting combat, combined with a bit of utility and defence and battlefield control. Hence why I am currently a druid/warlock/arcane heirophant combo.

The warmage was just an idea and one that is losing its appeal. Warmage Edge isn't that great without having to dump stats into Charisma AND Intelligence.

And whats wrong with causing damage??? You say it like causing damage is a bad thing. It's all well and good being able to heal, control the battlefield, etc but at the end of the day a dead (not undead...) enemy is a lot less painful than a living enemy. The faster it can go down the better...

You know there different ways to play classes...
Basically, if you're playing to full optimisation, doing damage is mop-up work, not how you win the fight. For instance, at lower levels, Magic Missile can maybe down one enemy; Color Spray lets you coup de grace several enemies with the same spell slot.

Though I would like to see all the direct damage specialists boosted for reasons like this... Frank & K did a good job buffing Fighter/Barbarian/Samurai but I'm not sold on their scaling feat system because it really isn't finished yet IIRC. I'd have settled for turning every +1 or +2 given by a feat into a +3, at least for crappy feats like Weapon Focus.

EDIT: *points to poster below* QFT.

Boci
2009-09-01, 05:42 AM
And whats wrong with causing damage??? You say it like causing damage is a bad thing. It's all well and good being able to heal, control the battlefield, etc but at the end of the day a dead (not undead...) enemy is a lot less painful than a living enemy. The faster it can go down the better...

You know there different ways to play classes...

The problem with damage is that even once a monsters lost 95% of its health, it is still as strong as it was with 100% health. Most classes cannot do anything about it: they can only deal damage, but caster don't have to. They can weaken their opponents in the first round, sometimes without a save, like enervate, or buff their allies. However, if you want to play a damage dealing caster, thewn go ahead.

Fizban
2009-09-01, 06:58 AM
War Mage PrC from Age of Mortals.

Amen, Hallelujah, Peanut butter.

You are aware that that class was errata'd, right? It only get's that ability a few times per day now.

Fax Celestis
2009-09-01, 09:58 AM
And whats wrong with causing damage???

Anyone can cause damage. Not anyone can do what 90% of spell effects do.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-09-01, 10:09 AM
Everyone should refer to page 2 of that thread for Logic Ninja's epic reply to Khan.

Who should I ask for permission to use that as an avatar?

Doc Roc
2009-09-01, 10:20 AM
You are aware that that class was errata'd, right? It only get's that ability a few times per day now.

3+Con mod. That's not a "few" times per day with the casters I build. Also, it runs off current Con mod, so polymorph away. If you can't get by with applying it less that 10 times a day, I'd begin to worry.

It still gets free metamagic feats, full casting, and +cha to ac for you and your allies as an unusual bonus type for AC. That alone would make it a class worth taking, given its loose prerequisites.

Optimystik
2009-09-01, 10:39 AM
Who should I ask for permission to use that as an avatar?

If you mean the animated rolleyes thing, you can't.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-09-01, 12:38 PM
Everyone should refer to page 2 of that thread for Logic Ninja's epic reply to Khan.

KHAAAAAAANNNNN!!!!