What's a good Collectible Card Game? [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

Dublock

2009-08-30, 08:09 PM

Harry potter cards...But they are out of print :p. I managed to get my mom to play and she loves it...she only played Magic before (and hates all others) so that must say something.

Other then that...I don't know any. Well, Magi-nation was pretty good. but also out of print (They say they will return...).

jamroar

2009-08-30, 11:12 PM

I mostly just want to prove to my friend that Magic is not the only good CCG out there. So, what are some good CCGs?

(Not Pokemon, not Yu-gi-oh, and not Magic, please)

Vampire the Eternal Struggle a.k.a. Jyhad (around since '94, making it the second oldest surviving CCG, I think).

Ravens_cry

2009-08-30, 11:19 PM

I hear, though I don't play, the World of Warcraft CCG is good.
Though that may be too close to Magic for you, I have heard they are quite similar.

Athaniar

2009-08-31, 02:22 AM

Warcraft CCG is good if you like Warcraft. But really, Magic is the king of CCGs, and that's not just because it was first.
It's because it's awesome.

Astrella

2009-08-31, 02:28 AM

Warlords is a rather fun one which I used to play in the past for a while, mechanics are a tad different from most card games though, but very interesting.

Rules (http://www.warlordccg.de/blog/)

Demodeck (http://www.warlordccg.de/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/WLD-4E-demodecks.pdf)

It's been out of print, but restarted I believe.

shadzar

2009-08-31, 04:27 AM

Well, I hate to break your premise, but I will anyway.

There is no such thing as a good collectible card game, or trading card game. The reasons are numerous:

1-The constant need to buy cards to keep up to date with everyone else in a CCG/TCG environment means you never have a constant or steady game. It is always changing too much too quickly.

2- Since you have to keep buying cards to play, he with the most money wins. That means the game is not in playing with the cards, but in buying them.

3- The designs are always flawed. The amount of errata for cards is ridiculous. Each new card either must adhere to covenants set by the rules and cards before them, or completely violate the rules and change the game into a totally new game. Therefore the game again changing quickly means it really isn't one game, but a new game per set/block.

I could go on, but will suggest some games that existed in the past that were considered CCGs, but since the cards are no longer being printer, and are rather cheap you can get them semi-easily to be able to play with and have fun.

Illuminati, X-Files, Young Jedi; these three are pretty good games now that the constant need for purchasing new cards has been removed. Also if you can find it Heresy was a pretty cool game.

Athaniar

2009-08-31, 04:58 AM

Well, I hate to break your premise, but I will anyway.

There is no such thing as a good collectible card game, or trading card game. The reasons are numerous:
First of all, that is your opinion. Do not state your opinion as fact.

1-The constant need to buy cards to keep up to date with everyone else in a CCG/TCG environment means you never have a constant or steady game. It is always changing too much too quickly.
Why is it necessary to buy new cards all the time? If you have a good deck, why not use it, even if it's made up of old card?

2- Since you have to keep buying cards to play, he with the most money wins. That means the game is not in playing with the cards, but in buying them.
See above.

3- The designs are always flawed. The amount of errata for cards is ridiculous. Each new card either must adhere to covenants set by the rules and cards before them, or completely violate the rules and change the game into a totally new game. Therefore the game again changing quickly means it really isn't one game, but a new game per set/block.
Yes, the game constantly evolves. You call this a bad thing?

NeoVid

2009-08-31, 05:16 AM

My two all-time favorite CCGs are both dead: Illuminati New World Order, and Vs. System, the Marvel/DC/Dark Horse card game.

The last one I like a lot is UFS, the fighting game CCG, but there's no community for it around here, so I haven't played in a long time. I also have to say it's the worst playtested game I've ever liked.

jamroar

2009-08-31, 05:30 AM

My two all-time favorite CCGs are both dead: Illuminati New World Order, and Vs. System, the Marvel/DC/Dark Horse card game.

Isn't INWO around in non-collectible form these days? Yeah, that's another good one.

NeoVid

2009-08-31, 05:32 AM

Isn't INWO non-collectible these days? Yeah, that's another good one.

The first and third sets are available in factory sets... that's actually the only way the third set was released. The second set is still only in packs, far as I know.

Kaihaku

2009-08-31, 05:33 AM

Other then that...I don't know any. Well, Magi-nation was pretty good. but also out of print (They say they will return...).

Ditto on magi-nation.

Ziren

2009-08-31, 05:39 AM

First of all, that is your opinion. Do not state your opinion as fact.

Hate to break it for you, but you did the same thing in your previous post.

Why is it necessary to buy new cards all the time? If you have a good deck, why not use it, even if it's made up of old card?

1. It get's boring.
2. If it's good enough to constantly win, your friends probably will stop having fun playing with you.
3. Even one good deck costs up to as much as three good boardgames combined (though that depends on the CCG you're playing)

I agree with you that CCGs are not necessarily bad, but I don't think there's a reason why you can't just buy complete edition cardsets for a reasonable price.

Anyway I've played a couple of different CCGs (Pokemon, Magic, Warhammer and BEHIND) and the only one of those I played for more than a month was the last one, which is sadly out of print now and has only been available in German and French.

NeoVid

2009-08-31, 05:45 AM

1. It get's boring.

Make decks that are more fun. I never got tired of playing my Arkham Inmates deck in Vs System even after playing every week for years.

Also, I almost never spent any money at all in any of the collectible games I've played. And I've played a ton.

Thane of Fife

2009-08-31, 05:46 AM

Personally, I enjoy the Star Wars PocketModel game. I suppose it counts as a CCG.

shadzar

2009-08-31, 09:02 AM

Personally, I enjoy the Star Wars PocketModel game. I suppose it counts as a CCG.

Sadly no. They have a whole other genre/category for pocket model games...oddly I can only think to call them pocket model games (CPMGs?). It also includes that Pirates game, where you pop the ships out of cards and build them in 3D as well. Transformers pocket model game flopped big time, and those are the only 3 of them I know of, and I think Pirates is the only one still making new expansions.

The Dark Fiddler

2009-08-31, 09:32 AM

3- The designs are always flawed. The amount of errata for cards is ridiculous. Each new card either must adhere to covenants set by the rules and cards before them, or completely violate the rules and change the game into a totally new game. Therefore the game again changing quickly means it really isn't one game, but a new game per set/block.

You must not like online gaming either, what with all the patches.

Athaniar

2009-08-31, 12:09 PM

Hate to break it for you, but you did the same thing in your previous post.
I should really stop doing that...

but I don't think there's a reason why you can't just buy complete edition cardsets for a reasonable price.
You know, that's not such a bad idea after all.

Astrella

2009-08-31, 12:17 PM

Because then it wouldn't be a collectible card game. Part of the excitement is buying new boosters, seeing if you get cards you didn't have before.

Besides, there are card games that don't use a booster buying system, rather just expansions sets in which you know what you get.

Joran

2009-08-31, 12:20 PM

It's not a collectible card game, but it has some similar mechanics: Race for the Galaxy. (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/28143)

The key differences are that every player draws from the same deck, instead of creating custom decks, and that there's no way to directly impact an opponent, like attacking. What it does provide is a heck of lot of interesting and fun decisions in 30 minutes or so. The huge plus is that I don't have to spend money outside of the $85 for the game + 2 expansions.

This has basically replaced CCGs among my friends. Before this, we did play Magic and Warcraft; I think I enjoyed Warcraft out of all of them the best.

Narudude360

2009-08-31, 02:16 PM

This one is NOT a good CCG. It was made to make money, and it will still be made to do so.

Naruto: The Collectible Card Game

Even I fell for it. (I was a hardcore fan of the series, now it's just bs.)
It was broken, the rules weren't clear as to how you play, and if you got a super rare in a pack, your opponent could say "I surrender." In a flash. They were THAT broken. What's worse is the next one I am about to talk about.

Dragon Ball: The Collectible Card Game

This is an EXACT COPY of the Naruto CCG. But with a Toei License rather than Viz. This company who makes the cards is unimaginative. I'm pissed.

To prove this, here is a Naruto CCG card: http://www.bandaicg.com/naruto/images/cards_s2/n064.jpg

And a DB CCG card:
http://www.bandaicg.com/dragonball/attachment.php?attachmentid=115&d=1215797068

I hate you, Bandai. But love you for your Gundam models! But HATE you for your Collectible Cards.

Ziren

2009-08-31, 03:32 PM

Because then it wouldn't be a collectible card game. Part of the excitement is buying new boosters, seeing if you get cards you didn't have before.

There's no reason why the two systems couldn't exist along each other. Cards from the full set would just have to be marked in some way to make them different. I remember WotC releasing old champion decks when I was still playing that had all the cards in them, but marked so that they had no collector's value. Of course, they lose points for banning those cards from tournaments and not doing it with the latest editions...

Also, the reality is already that tournament players (and people who favour their money over the thrill of opening a booster) get their cards from EBay.

Besides, there are card games that don't use a booster buying system, rather just expansions sets in which you know what you get.

Which is, in my opinion, a much better system. It also keeps them from becoming a direct competition to Magic, which is desirable because marketingwise Magic is to CCGs what WoW is to MMORPGs.

Dragonmuncher

2009-09-02, 12:06 PM

Yeah, I don't really care about the "thrill" of buying booster packs, only to be disappointed when I get 5 duplicates of a crappy card I already have, and one-semi good card.

Race for the Galaxy and Illuminati both sound very interesting. What about Munchkin? I've heard good things about that, anyone play that?

Dublock

2009-09-02, 12:49 PM

Munchkin is a great game but I don't think of it as a CCG. I played it a few times, but I don't own it. I'll leave someone more knowledgeable to describe it.

Ziren

2009-09-02, 12:54 PM

Munchkin is a good party game, but victory or defeat are almost entirely up to luck.

BizzaroStormy

2009-09-02, 12:59 PM

2. If it's good enough to constantly win, your friends probably will stop having fun playing with you.

This is the part where your friends try to improve their decks or change their strategy with what they have.

3. Even one good deck costs up to as much as three good boardgames combined (though that depends on the CCG you're playing)
With games like Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon, yeah. However, Magic is one of the few where its all about the strategy you use with your deck. I was able to make a deck that went 4-1 or 5-0 in FNM tourneys consistently; all for about $30. Granted there are a fair amount of card that sucks complete ass no matter how you use them.

I agree with you that CCGs are not necessarily bad, but I don't think there's a reason why you can't just buy complete edition cardsets for a reasonable price.

There's no reason why you couldn't do this although your definition of "a reasonable price" and the definition of the person selling it could be very different numbers.

Winterwind

2009-09-02, 01:14 PM

Race for the Galaxy and Illuminati both sound very interesting. What about Munchkin? I've heard good things about that, anyone play that?Munchkin is the very definition of awesome. It's in no way a Collectible Card Game though.

Winthur

2009-09-02, 01:18 PM

Munchkin is the very definition of awesome. It's in no way a Collectible Card Game though.
Aw, crap. And I missed playing it on a convention. :smallfrown:

With games like Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon, yeah.

That's not THAT bad... On the other hand, as I saw from my research, you basically just buy 2-3 Dark Emperor Structure Decks and then a few singles. You're set. There are other cheap, effective options like Zombie World or Water, but they're rather set in stone and thus everyone plays Dimensionals/Zombies/other stuff-- at least that's how situation looks in my country's YGO fandom...

shadzar

2009-09-02, 01:30 PM

Munchkin is the very definition of awesome. It's in no way a Collectible Card Game though.

Well now that depends on if it is still out of print or they have more copies. I got stuck with Cthulu Munchkin when I wanted regular Munchkin.

All the expansions can also be played together as well the stand-alone by just shuffling the cards together...Strange things happen when the D&D-ish-verse meets Vampire (Munchkin Bites), and Cthulu.....

King in the door, kill something, and take its stuff. All there is to Munchkin...and don't forget to screw the other players along the way out of their stuff! :smallbiggrin:

Winterwind

2009-09-02, 01:35 PM

Aw, crap. And I missed playing it on a convention. :smallfrown:Essentially, combine one of the greatest RPG parodies imaginable with a big dose insanity, and have the players try to screw each other over as best as they can. :smallbiggrin:

Well now that depends on if it is still out of print or they have more copies. I got stuck with Cthulu Munchkin when I wanted regular Munchkin.I don't know if it's still in print; last time I checked (which, admittedly, was a couple of months ago), every RPG-related shop here had a huge selection of those right next to the counter though.

Ziren

2009-09-02, 01:42 PM

This is the part where your friends try to improve their decks or change their strategy with what they have.

I can hardly force them to play a game with which they have no fun.

With games like Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon, yeah. However, Magic is one of the few where its all about the strategy you use with your deck. I was able to make a deck that went 4-1 or 5-0 in FNM tourneys consistently; all for about $30. Granted there are a fair amount of card that sucks complete ass no matter how you use them.

I admit that I haven't been up-to-date with the prices for Magic cards and a quick look at the prices of displays on EBay indicates that they became almost reasonable copared to the time when I was playing (though a lot of single-card prices still seem far to high for what is essentially piece of paper with print on it).

There's no reason why you couldn't do this although your definition of "a reasonable price" and the definition of the person selling it could be very different numbers.

See my other post to understand where I was actually going with this. And a reasonable price for a full edition set of cards without collector's value shouldn't be more than 50€ (more around 40€, in my opinion).

BizzaroStormy

2009-09-02, 11:14 PM

See my other post to understand where I was actually going with this. And a reasonable price for a full edition set of cards without collector's value shouldn't be more than 50€ (more around 40€, in my opinion).

The issue there is the fact that as far as collector value goes, there isn't much there, but the players of the game are willing to pay a lot more (a playset of good cards can cost you anywhere from $10-$40).

This is where companies like WotC see the immense profit. If you can establish a good player base with a CCG, you spend $0.05 to make a pack of card you sell to a dealer for $2.50, then the dealer sells them for $4.00 a piece. Thats right, they'll sell for 8000% of what it costs to make them, excluding the company's/Dealer's other costs.

Shyftir

2009-11-29, 02:25 AM

I'm a really big fan of WoW:TCG.

Yes it is similar to MtG,but the differences are almost all things that fix problems with MtG.

1. Old cards never stop being tourney legal, yes more and newer cards have great abilities, but older cards are very viable this is on purpose. Polymorph for instance, It's a classic Warcraft spell and so always a possibility for a WoW:TCG mage.

2. No, getting "mana screwed" because all cards are resources if need be.

There are others, but these two are the big selling points for me.

Also cool, is the "Raid Deck" concept, which makes for a very cool party versus dungeon experience in a TCG.

I'm a former Magic player who quit for all the classic reasons. I picked up WoW:TCG as a small trial with a friend and I loved it. Truthfully if you like WoW or Warcraft in general, (as I do.) you will enjoy it more, but it's a solid game with good mechanics and nice fluff, IMHO.

Edit!
Oops, slight necro, hey at least this zombie still has some flesh on it....

Squark

2009-11-29, 01:45 PM

I enjoyed the Star Wars CCG (Not the wizards one, which wasn't that different than any other one. The Decipher one), but its got a learning curve that makes Magic look like Child's play.

@Shyftir- Part of the reason Magic has to rotate out cards is that when the game is as old as it is, there are so many combos out there that it necessitates different, more newbie friendly formats. I'm pretty sure that if Legacy were the only major format out there, Magic would not have nearly the playing community it does now. It's not that difficult to be able to recognize most of the good cards in Standard after a few weeks of FNM tournaments. Keeping only the 2 most recent blocks also helps encourage newbies to be creative, as they don't have to worry about dealing with combos like Vampire Hexmage-Dark Depths.

Although going against a Jund Deck fairly early on during your MTG experience is not pleasant. Urghh...

On the topic of cost, my FNM deck, not counting basic lands, costs about $35.50 according to CardShark, and it consistently (almost frustratingly so) yeilds a 50% win ratio. And about $25 of that was concentrated in 5 rare cards I traded for.

Decoy Lockbox

2009-11-29, 09:38 PM

suffolkmagic

2011-06-04, 11:34 PM

A free game that I came across is Hexery. It is very similar to Magic the gathering and can be played for free at http://www.hexery.com/

You start with 6 playable decks and as you complete achievements and duels you earn gold that is then used to buy booster packs to gain cards and build custom decks.

The duels are actually playable games and not like some of the other links, where you pick a deck then just watch. I like this game because it is customizable and I can actually play the game. The game is currently in is in open beta and a single player game that you will like.

Other features from their website is the fact that you can view other people inventories and trade your cards with theirs. The online market lets you sell off junk cards and buy the cards you need.

The graphics are a bit dated, and from posts on the forums they are temporary. I really enjoy this game so far and from what I can tell it is still new and the game staff is asking for people to test and report.

http://www.Hexery.com is where you will find your next tcg or ccg which ever you prefer to call it.

Maeglin_Dubh

2011-06-04, 11:54 PM

Versus System is amazing, and being (within the past few years) out of print means that you don't have to worry about future expansions.

It's also been out long enough that if you know your playstyle, you can ask around and get advice on building a deck or finding a faction that fits your playstyle.

I've been really feeling the itch to play lately, what with all the superhero movies coming out. Problem is, all of my decks are based on teams that aren't as popular....

"Hey guys, want to play this card game? It's based on comic book characters!"
"Cool! I want to play the Spiderman deck!"
"I... don't have one."
"Thor?"
"Nope."
"Iron Man?"
"Sorry..."
"Batman?"
"I've got Rha's al Ghul in one of my decks... Is that good enough?"

My three main tournament decks are Darkseid's Elite (Darkseid's Elite/Kree if I'm going more control), Checkmate/Villains United/League of Assassins, and Outsiders/Teen Titans.

Mx.Silver

2011-06-05, 02:29 PM

Legend of the Five Rings is the only one I can think of, although I will confess I've never actually played it.

Triaxx

2011-06-05, 06:04 PM

Triple Triad. Best Ever.

dgnslyr

2011-06-05, 07:47 PM

Triple Triad. Best Ever.

Sadly, it was bundled with a game whose quality is... debatable.
In my opinion, the most interesting part is shredding your best cards and turning them into steroids junctions. It's almost certainly better than Tetramaster, but we all know Chocobo Hot and Cold is the real minigame to enjoy.

CarpeGuitarrem

2011-06-05, 10:14 PM

I played and thoroughly enjoyed the LOTR TCG by Decipher, though I most recommend the Fellowship block. It's the one which feels the most like an RPG, and less like a crazy combination of new abilities. There's a lot of escalation in the later sets. But Fellowship block is incredibly solid.

I've also played a little VS, and the system is incredibly tight...plus, it's a superhero system.

Arbane

2011-06-05, 11:18 PM

Isn't INWO around in non-collectible form these days? Yeah, that's another good one.

I like the non-collectible Illuminati game better, personally. 90% of the complexity in Illuminati is trying to psych-out the other players, the funky CCG special-powers just overcomplicate it too much for my tastes.

As for answering the OP's question, I'm rather fond of Shadowfist (http://shadowfist.com/) It's a CCG based (loosely) on Hong Kong action movies, with an excuse plot involving time travel, so you have kung-fu monks fighting hopping vampires, cyberpunk criminals fighting maverick cops, and flying cyborg monkeys fighting shadowy conspiracies. It deals with both duelling and multi-player very well, and I think player skill is actually about as important as "buying more cards".

Snowstorm

2011-06-06, 08:23 AM

In my opinion, Magi-Nation was one of the best games out there; I was so depressed when 2i went under, and kept my hopes up for a good long while that they'd come back as promised.

Galactic Empires had perhaps the worst physical cards in existence, and the deck-building rules were rather strict and odd, but I loved the way the ships were handled in that game.

Netrunner and Rage (before the reboot) were also great games to collect and play.

If we're talking about current games, then I'm not really sure; I'm not terribly happy about the way Cryptozoic is handling the WoW TCG, but during the UDE era, I liked the game enough to make it to the championships at GenCon a couple times.

Triaxx

2011-06-06, 10:53 AM

Winterwind

2011-06-06, 11:22 AM

You may want to check the date at which this thread was created, folks. Just saying. :smallwink:

Brother Oni

2011-06-06, 11:28 AM

Legend of the Five Rings is the only one I can think of, although I will confess I've never actually played it.

It's different from Magic in that there's multiplayer built into the game system but without the cut-throat nature of Jyhad (well at first anyway).

It had a proper evolving storyline unlike Magic for a number of reasons, from play from tournaments being integrated into the storyline, evolving Personalities and the designers listening to the fanbase.
Take the evolution of Toku for example, from cheap nameless expendable personality all the way up to Minor clan champion.

I used to play up to the Day of Thunder event, but late game multiplayer tended to stagnate into force gaining stalemates, plus I have nobody to play it with these days (my wife refuses to play as the pseudo-Japanese themes just annoys the hell out of her).

Unfortunately all the issues regarding Collectible Card Games like Magic also apply to Lot5R, especially with regard to card rarity/power/cost.

Seerow

2011-06-06, 11:51 AM

The biggest problems with FF8 were that it wasn't Final Fantasy 7 continued, (not actually a problem), and a story with a romance jammed into it. Junctioning was awesome.

I still don't understand Tetra Master.

What? Junctioning was the WORST system from any final fantasy game to date. This pretty much sums up my opinions on it: http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/spoonyone/final-fantasy-viii/1798-final-fantasy-8-part-2

Dragonmuncher

2011-06-06, 04:52 PM

Joran

2011-06-06, 05:14 PM

I've been playing Munchkin, and WOW do I like non-collectible games now!

No more of this "Come on guys, you should go make a deck"

::derpderpderp buys a starter deck with a booster::

"I win! Guess you should have bought a dozen boosters like I did. Oh, by the way, do you want these 130 junk cards I have lying around now?"

Munchkin, for me, went like this:

"Hey guys, I just got this cool game. Munchkin!"

"How do you play? I don't have a deck"

"Nah, we all use the same deck. See, now first you Kick In The Door..."

much, much more fun.

Huge thread necromancy, but yeah, I found enough board games that satisfy the CCG itch to never pick up a CCG again.

The aforementioned Race for the Galaxy (for a 2 player game) or Dominion (for a 3-4 player game). We've had some fun with 7 Wonders as well.

Triaxx

2011-06-06, 08:24 PM

Umm... I can't see the video because I'm on dial-up, but in short, Junctioning is awesome beyond all sane measure.

My weapon isn't that accurate, I junction Triple to it, and I've got a 255% chance to hit, which means I'll NEVER miss.

Monsters around here are weak to fire. Junction fire as my elemenatal damage, and I can smash monsters all day long. Everything using fire attacks? Fire to my defense, and they're only doing a couple damage points. Big scary physical attacker? Junction Blind as the status on my weapon, and they're hitting nothing but air.

Disc 1, I'm invincible because I have 3000+ hit points. Or I have enough strength to smash monsters in a single blow.

Nothing has been better than Junction since.

dgnslyr

2011-06-06, 09:01 PM

It's definitely a versatile system, but drawing all those spells takes time, and it takes pretty thorough knowledge of the game *cough*gamefaqs*cough* to break it to hell and back. To me, it seems pretty arcane for someone playing on their own, and too easily exploited for someone who abuses the living daylights out of Refine and whatnot. Magic also tended to be mostly useless outside of junctioning, except maybe for healing and Meltdown. Personally, I'd rather have a more orthodox character customization system.

But maybe we should take this sidetrack off to another thread, especially when this one is heavily necromancy'd. Like maybe here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202192).

Arbane

2011-06-07, 02:37 AM

Unfortunately all the issues regarding Collectible Card Games like Magic also apply to Lot5R, especially with regard to card rarity/power/cost.

*Gratuitous plug for Shadowfist below*

I like the way Shadowfist handles the rarity/power/cost thing: Cards have a resource requirement AND a power cost - power you can save up from turn to turn and which you spend on cards, and resources you get from cards you've played previously, even if they've since been destroyed, which act as a pre-requisite to playing some cards. So it's possible to have a zero-power-cost card that you can't play until fairly late in the game, since it needs 4 of one resource.

The game also encourages aggressive discarding (you refill your hand to full every round), so holding onto an ubercard for six rounds until you can play it is often a very bad strategy.

*End gratuitous plug*