Question about Lirian and Dorukan <SOD Spoilers>

[blueblade]

Hi all,

I read SOD and Origins for the first time last night. Wow, great books (SOD better IMO). I get Xykon and Redcloak so much more now. little twinge as right-eye died ("goodbye redcloak")..

Sorry, on to the topic. The gem containing the souls of Lirian and Dorukan. Have we seen it anywhere in the main strip at all? What are the board theories about the significance of the gem and its continued existence?

It seems like a bit of a Chekhov's gun given how much screen time it had (although we know Rich loves leaving the odd red herring for us). For my two cents, I would love to see a member or two of the other OotS join the fray, at least for one gate/battle.

[jidasfire]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0532.html

You can see the gemstone in this strip. Otherwise, it hasn't come into play.

[The Recreator]

So far, each Gate has been defended by its designated Order of the Scribble member. In particular, Soon was able to defend his even after death (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0449.html). I think it's a safe bet that Girard and Serini will be found at their Gates, too.

As for Lirian and Dorukan, even if their black gem is shattered, they're still just souls (unlike Soon, who was a ghost-martyr or such). Their impact on any battle would be nil without a True Resurrection to bring them back to life, as Roy's post-mortem adventures proved that ghosts can't be seen by just anyone.

[Morquard]

I assume that the gemstone will be broken and the souls will be freed in the end, but not much before the end of the entire storyline, aka once Xykon is actually defeated.
However, yeah they'll be dead, all it does is allow them to pass on into the afterlife

[factotum]

So far, each Gate has been defended by its designated Order of the Scribble member. In particular, Soon was able to defend his even after death (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0449.html). I think it's a safe bet that Girard and Serini will be found at their Gates, too.


Not so sure, myself. Serini, in particular, was a halfling who believed in the power of physical might--I doubt she's going to be attempting to fight off anybody at whatever advanced age she currently is, assuming she didn't get killed somewhere else! Also, if Serini were still alive, how did Xykon get hold of her journal?

[Morquard]

SHe might have lost it, it could have been stolen, she sold it to a publisher to make money or he used a wish spell.

[Red XIV]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0532.html

You can see the gemstone in this strip. Otherwise, it hasn't come into play.
Yeah, but that's a flashback to before the start of the comic.

If Xykon was keeping the gem with him at all times, it should've been destroyed here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0115.html), along with his body. Given that the gemstone is in no way part of Xykon, it would be quite absurd for it to be regenerated by his phylactery, after all.

Of course, it's entirely possible that Xykon stored it in his hideout at some point, or even just handed it to Redcloak before the fight with the OotS.

[The Recreator]

Not so sure, myself. Serini, in particular, was a halfling who believed in the power of physical might--I doubt she's going to be attempting to fight off anybody at whatever advanced age she currently is, assuming she didn't get killed somewhere else! Also, if Serini were still alive, how did Xykon get hold of her journal?

Actually, she built her Gate's defense based on it's namesake, Kraggor's belief in the power of physical might. Serini herself was a halfling rogue. As for the journal, that could have been something she misplaced somewhere. People do that sort of thing all the time.

[Katana_Geldar]

Eugene could be able to see them, wouldn't he?

[Cracklord]

Not so sure, myself. Serini, in particular, was a halfling who believed in the power of physical might--I doubt she's going to be attempting to fight off anybody at whatever advanced age she currently is, assuming she didn't get killed somewhere else! Also, if Serini were still alive, how did Xykon get hold of her journal?

No, Kragor did, and she made the defences in memory of him.
And an epic ancient halfling rogue/grandma would be an awesome character.

[factotum]

If Xykon was keeping the gem with him at all times, it should've been destroyed here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0115.html), along with his body.

By the same token, Dorukan's headband should have been destroyed or left behind there as well, but clearly it wasn't because Xykon's used it!

[whitelaughter]

If Xykon was keeping the gem with him at all times, it should've been destroyed here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0115.html), along with his body.

No, as his body was only shattered, not destroyed. Consider here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0130.html) V chooses the ring pried from Xykon's finger.

Of course, it's possible that the Oots recovered the gem when they looted the tower. If so, it may have been lost here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0649.html) as it would have been the most valuable gem available, and so kept for resurrections.

[Morquard]

If so, it was most likely "lost" here: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0129.html

But I assume Rich simply didn't have the idea with the soultrapped souls till a bit later, so this might simply be an oversight.

[whitelaughter]

How would it be 'lost' there, Morquand? Are you assuming that they would have split the stone?
I'd assume that it is just part of the pile being divvied up, unless the order had already agreed to hold it back for rezzes.

[Morquard]

Well it would have been one of the gemstones everyone got, and probably spent on something.
If it wasn't spent it was most likely lost here then: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0245.html

But more likely is that Redcloak had it or it was in a safe place.

[Janmorel]

Maybe the MitD picked it up one day because it looked neat and is keeping it in his Darkness. Seems just as likely as anything else.

[BatRobin]

It's used again somewhere in the comic where Tsukiko looks on as Xykon Cloister's Azure City.

[Herald Alberich]

It's used again somewhere in the comic where Tsukiko looks on as Xykon Cloister's Azure City.

That's what I thought I remembered too, so I checked, but nope, he's just holding his crown in that panel so that he could put the headband on instead: 484 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0484.html).

[Draz74]

If it wasn't spent it was most likely lost here then: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0245.html

No, the treasure that blew up at the Inn was only the Dragon's hoard. All the treasure that they had before facing the Dragon was already in Haley's Bags of Holding by this point.

[Thanatosia]

I just got and Read SOD and Origins myself, and my big question is, what became of Righteye's Daughter? Any possible relation to Tharka?

[Optimystik]

I just got and Read SOD and Origins myself, and my big question is, what became of Righteye's Daughter? Any possible relation to Tharka?

No word on her yet. Therkla is a half-orc, not a goblin, so it wasn't she.

[Porthos]

By the same token, Dorukan's headband should have been destroyed or left behind there as well, but clearly it wasn't because Xykon's used it!

This.

Seriously, why is this even a debate? As this shows, Xykon has used at least one item that he "shouldn't" be able to use since he presumably lost everything when he was kerplooied. At the very least, he should have lost items that were stored in the Dungeon.

And yet he didn't.

Why?

Rule of Plot.

In the immortal words of Tony Kornheiser: That's It! That's The List! :smallcool:

Sure we can come up with plausible (and not so) reasons for why Xykon has things he shouldn't have. But the main reason he has them is that it's important to the plot. Much like Crystal leveling for no good reason, really. :smallwink:

And if it seemingly violates a minor bit of plot continuity along the way? Well that just allows some forum posters to post theories about why it either is or isn't possible/plasuible, while the rest of the readers ignore the minor inconstancy altogether.

It's a Win Win situation! :smalltongue:

PS: Besides, I view the Soul Gem in #532 as one of two things:

A) A Shout Out to people who have read SoD

and/or

B) Foreshadowing.

The later bit saying (more or less): If Xykon can still have Dorukan's Headband, then don't be surprised if he still has the Soul Gem as well.

And, as we all know, this comic has foreshadowed things on occasion. :smallwink:

[Nights1stStar]

Speaking of Chekhov's guns, there seemed to be quite a bit in SOD. Xykon charming the Monster to eat Redcloak if he ever betrays him, Right-Eye's zombified body, Redcloak's missing niece, what Xykon would do once he finds out the truth about the Gates...Lifian and Dorukan's gemstone isn't the only plot point missing, but all are very good stuff that I'm sure will come up in the future.

[factotum]

I just got and Read SOD and Origins myself, and my big question is, what became of Righteye's Daughter? Any possible relation to Tharka?

As I just said in another thread, why does everybody in the strip have to be related to someone we've already met? Anyway, quite apart from the fact Therkla is a half-orc, not a goblin, she's dead and has no inclination to accept a resurrection even if someone offered one, so I doubt she's going to play any part in the future plot.

[oball]

Their impact on any battle would be nil without a True Resurrection to bring them back to life, as Roy's post-mortem adventures proved that ghosts can't be seen by just anyone.

"I would just like to point out that my ghost will be both angry and vengeful, and will retain all of my spellcasting powers." (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0163.html)

[Forbiddenwar]

*SNIP*
unless the order had already agreed to hold it back for rezzes.

Huh?:smallconfused: why would the order save it for rezzes? It's worthless for rezzes. (being a sapphire and not a diamond)

Either: A) it will come up again in an important way, or B) it will come up again in an unimportant way, or C) it won't ever come up again. What's your vote?

Mine is for either B or C

[Optimystik]

"I would just like to point out that my ghost will be both angry and vengeful, and will retain all of my spellcasting powers." (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0163.html)

I see that quote cited a lot, and I wonder just how accurate V's assessment of his post-mortem magical ability truly is. Certainly I don't see in any sourcebook that elven wizards become revenant arcanists 100% of the time on death.


Huh?:smallconfused: why would the order save it for rezzes? It's worthless for rezzes. (being a sapphire and not a diamond)

Either: A) it will come up again in an important way, or B) it will come up again in an unimportant way, or C) it won't ever come up again. What's your vote?

Mine is for either B or C

I vote (A):
It would be quite fitting for the Scribble to be the ones to exact Vengeance on Xykon for what he did to them. The Order most likely won't achieve epic levels themselves in the story, but smashing the gem in such a way as to allow the do-gooders that already ARE epic another chance at Xykon's skeletal throat somehow would be 'karma-riffic.'

[Watcher]

I don't think the Order ever had the gem. Vaarsuvius found all the magical things in the loot, and a soul gem strikes me as fairly magical, especially since the soul can be dispelled from the gem. It was destroyed with Xykon, blasted with the rest of Dorukan's Dungeon when Elan destroyed it, or is with Team Evil now.

[FoE]

I always assumed the gemstone was destroyed along with Xykon's body. He did carry it with him, after all.

[BatRobin]

That's what I thought I remembered too, so I checked, but nope, he's just holding his crown in that panel so that he could put the headband on instead: 484 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0484.html).

*facepalm*


Look at the next panel, bud. He then Cloister's Azure City.


That's EXACTLY what I said.

[General Valter]

"I would just like to point out that my ghost will be both angry and vengeful, and will retain all of my spellcasting powers." (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0163.html)

I think that's actually a reference to an old comic series called Elfquest.

The protagonists had continuing trouble with a horrifically evil elf who could not be killed, for fear that her spirit would manifest and haunt them for the rest of time.

Plus it was said in the last panel of the strip, which indicates fairly strongly that it was a punchline :smallwink:

[Herald Alberich]

*facepalm*


Look at the next panel, bud. He then Cloister's Azure City.


That's EXACTLY what I said.

Um, ok. *looks* I still see no black gemstone used to bind souls, as see in Xykon's right hand here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0532.html). That is what we're talking about, you know. Not the headband.

[Optimystik]

Um, ok. *looks* I still see no black gemstone used to bind souls, as see in Xykon's right hand here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0532.html). That is what we're talking about, you know. Not the headband.

The point is that the headband survived the explosion and we didn't see anyone carrying that, so we can say the same of the gemstone.

[Porthos]

The point is that the headband survived the explosion and we didn't see anyone carrying that, so we can say the same of the gemstone.

One might even go as far as to say that the whole point of that panel was to allow for the possibility of the gem to appear in the strip at a later date.

I know that I have said so, on at least a couple of occasions. :smalltongue: