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Don the Bastard
2009-08-31, 01:16 AM
I was playing around with DDI character builder and I came across an interesting combination for a ranger. If you take the twin strike at-will power (which ranger in their right mind doesn't) multiclass to cutthroat (out of dragon magazine 373) and take the cutthroat specialist feat at level 10 your twin-strikes now do 3[W] damage each,
at level 15 this increases to 4[W] each,
at level 21 this increases to 5[W] each
and at level 25 they cap out at 7[W] damage each, potentially dealing 14[W] damage to one target with a daily attack power.

Am I the only one that thinks this combo is a little broken, I haven't even looked into further optimising it.

Break
2009-08-31, 01:24 AM
I was playing around with DDI character builder and I came across an interesting combination for a ranger. If you take the twin strike at-will power (which ranger in their right mind doesn't) multiclass to cutthroat (out of dragon magazine 373) and take the cutthroat specialist feat at level 10 your twin-strikes now do 3[W] damage each,
at level 15 this increases to 4[W] each,
at level 21 this increases to 5[W] each
and at level 25 they cap out at 7[W] damage each, potentially dealing 14[W] damage to one target with a daily attack power.

Am I the only one that thinks this combo is a little broken, I haven't even looked into further optimising it.

It's good, but not broken. Most of the damage the better weapon strikers deal out don't even come from [W], but from multiplying static bonuses to damage through multiple attacks. It certainly sounds like a lot, but you can do much better with Blade Cascade with all the bonuses you can multiply, like, say, from Pit Fighters or the Resourceful Warlord's action point ability.

NPCMook
2009-08-31, 01:31 AM
I was playing around with DDI character builder and I came across an interesting combination for a ranger. If you take the twin strike at-will power (which ranger in their right mind doesn't) multiclass to cutthroat (out of dragon magazine 373) and take the cutthroat specialist feat at level 10 your twin-strikes now do 3[W] damage each,
at level 15 this increases to 4[W] each,
at level 21 this increases to 5[W] each
and at level 25 they cap out at 7[W] damage each, potentially dealing 14[W] damage to one target with a daily attack power.

Am I the only one that thinks this combo is a little broken, I haven't even looked into further optimising it.

Put it on a Tempest fighter, Dual Strike now has you strike two individual targets for 6[W] each

Don the Bastard
2009-08-31, 01:38 AM
I am looking into further "optimisation" (munchinery) of this power.

Break
2009-08-31, 01:44 AM
I am looking into further "optimisation" (munchinery) of this power.

Really, just use the usual options that you'd use for boosting multiattacks, or specifically boost at-wills. The Trace Chance power from the Rrathmal PP in Dragon 378 works if you're a gith ranger - autocritting with 14[W] is nothing to sneer at.

Still, you're blowing two feats just for the privilege to use this power, and what rangers get in the damage department are just fine to begin with.

Don the Bastard
2009-08-31, 02:23 AM
Still, you're blowing two feats just for the privilege to use this power, and what rangers get in the damage department are just fine to begin with.

Oh, this is not for a playable character, this (like pun-pun) is a mental excercise for maximising the potential damage output.

Grynning
2009-08-31, 09:30 AM
14[W] is just not going to do it for maximizing damage output on a dual wielder. If you're using a d10 weapon, that's a maximum of 140 damage at level 25. Yes, it's at-will, but even playing at paragon level you're rarely down to just at-wills by the end of a fight, and you can do a similar amount of damage with even level 11 encounter powers (like Shocking Twister from the Shock Trooper, tempest fighter PP).

Don the Bastard
2009-08-31, 10:21 AM
Ok, I put some extra work into this fella:

Note that this character is not intended to be practically applied in any game, it is merely a mental challenge to try and maximise the damage output for a character in a round.

This is the character build:
Gish max dam, level 30
Githzerai, Ranger, Rrathmal, Eternal Seeker
Build: Two-Blade Ranger
Seeking Destiny: Astral Critical
Fighting Style: Two-Blade Fighting Style
Background: Cult Escapee (Cult Escapee Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 22, Con 13, Dex 14, Int 12, Wis 28, Cha 10.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 14, Con 11, Dex 10, Int 10, Wis 18, Cha 8.

AC: 27 Fort: 32 Reflex: 28 Will: 34
HP: 185 Surges: 7 Surge Value: 46

TRAINED SKILLS
Nature +29, Athletics +28, Perception +29, Bluff +21, Acrobatics +24, Stealth +22

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +17, Diplomacy +15, Dungeoneering +24, Endurance +16, Heal +24, History +16, Insight +27, Intimidate +15, Religion +16, Streetwise +15, Thievery +17

FEATS
Level 1: Cutthroat
Level 2: Weapon Proficiency (Waraxe)
Level 4: Weapon Focus (Axe)
Level 6: Weapon Expertise (Axe)
Level 8: Predatory Action
Level 10: Cutthroat Specialist
Level 11: Lethal Hunter
Level 12: Devastating Critical
Level 14: Dakshai's Body-Mind Union
Level 16: Shared Danger Sense
Level 18: Power Attack
Level 20: Precision Ambush Style
Level 21: Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 22: Two-Weapon Opening
Level 24: Armor Proficiency (Chainmail)
Level 26: Miryath's First Strike
Level 28: Iron Hands
Level 30: Armor Proficiency (Scale)

POWERS
Ranger at-will 1: Twin Strike
Ranger at-will 1: Nimble Strike
Seeker's Lore: Time Stop
Ranger encounter 1: Off-Hand Strike
Ranger daily 1: Split the Tree
Ranger utility 2: Hunter's Privilege
Ranger encounter 3: Shadow Wasp Strike
Ranger daily 5: Splintering Shot
Ranger utility 6: Weave Through the Fray
Ranger encounter 7: Hawk's Talon
Ranger daily 9: Jarring Salvo
Ranger utility 10: Prime Shift
Ranger encounter 13: Off-Hand Diversion (replaces Shadow Wasp Strike)
Ranger daily 15: Tracking Shot (retrained to Quick Kill at Cutthroat Specialist) (replaces Splintering Shot)
Ranger utility 16: Longstrider
Ranger encounter 17: Blow-Through Assault (replaces Hawk's Talon)
Ranger daily 19: Claim the Prize (replaces Jarring Salvo)
Ranger utility 22: Master of the Hunt
Ranger encounter 23: Nonchalant Collapse (replaces Blow-Through Assault)
Ranger daily 25: Waves of Languor (replaces Claim the Prize)
Ranger encounter 27: Wrath of the Arctic Wind (replaces Off-Hand Strike)
Ranger daily 29: Final Oath (replaces Waves of Languor)

ITEMS
Vorpal Waraxe +6 (2), Skull Bracers (epic tier), Storm Gauntlets (epic tier), Ring of Heroic Insight (epic tier), Dragonscale Elderscale Armor, Red +6
This is the 2 round damage maximising plan.
Round 1:
Minor - Hunter's Quarry.
Minor - Skull Bracers - The next sucessful attack you make before the end of your next turn deals an extra 3d10 damage.

Interupt when attacked - Iron Mind

Round 2:
Minor - Time Stop - You gain two extra standard actions, which you can't use to attack other creatures
Standard (Non-attack) -> Minor (Non-attack) - Master of the Hunt - You gain a bonus to damage rolls equal to your wisdom modifier (+9)
Standard (Non-attack) - Trace Chance - +2 attack roll of next at-will melee attack against the target before the end of your next turn, if that attack hits, it is automatically a critical hit.
Standard - Quick Kill - Use a melee or ranged at-will attack power on the target. If you hit, you deal 2 extra dice of damage, 15th level: the at-will power you use deals 3 extra dice of damage, 25th level: the at-will power you use deals 5 extra dice of damage. Use Twin-strike: Str (+32{+15 half-level, +6 Str., +2 prof., +6 enh. +3 misc, +2 Trace chance, -2 power attack}) vs. Ac for two attacks at 7[W]+34 (2[W] twin strike, 5[W] quick kill - +6 enh., +3 feat, +1 TWF., +9 MotH, +6 PA, +9 Iron hands) damage each. +3d8 Quarry damage (+5 ongoing from bleeding precision). AUTO CRITTED - Vorpal waraxe +6d12 damage, +1d10 devastating critical.
Move -> Minor - Nonchalant Collapse - Strength (+30{+15 half-level, +6 Str., +2 prof., +6 enh. +3 misc., -2 PA}) vs. Fortitude 2[W]+37 (+6 Str., +6 enh., +3 feat, +1 TWF., +9 MotH, +6 PA, +9 Iron hands)
Free action - Storm Gauntlets - +3d6 thunder damage to Quick Kill, +5 thunder damage to Nonchalant Collapse.
Free action - Vorpal waraxe - Use this power when you hit with the weapon. Deal +3d12 damage with the attack.
Free action - Two-weapon Opening - Str. (+30{+15 half-level, +6 Str., +2 prof., +6 enh. +3 misc., -2 PA}) vs AC. 2[W]+37 (+6 Str., +6 enh., +3 feat, +1 TWF., +9 MotH, +6 PA, +9 Iron hands) damage
Action Point: Final Oath - Wis (+33{+15 half-level, +9 Str., +2 prof., +6 enh. +3 misc., -2 PA}) vs. AC for 9[W]+44(+9 Wis., +6 enh., +3 feat, +1 TWF., +9 MotH, +6 PA, +9 Iron Hands).

Damage totals: Crit (14d12+68) + 3d8 Quarry + 6d12 + 1d10 + 2d12+28 + 3d6 +5 + 3d12 + 3d10 + 2d12+28 + 9d12+35= 373 min - 696 max.

Additional - Possibly Hunter's privelege to add 3 damage to hunters quarry.
Additional - If they haven't acted yet +12 phychic damage from miryath's first strike.

Tell me if there are any flaws in my tactics or mathematics, would have like to squeeze an extra 4 point of damage somewhere to get max over 700.

Does between 373 and 696 damage in one round.