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View Full Version : [3.5] Dreadnought, a Recurring Villain for Use in your Campaign



NecroPaladin
2009-08-31, 03:22 AM
What follows are the stats and description of a joint-effort character thought up by me and local homebrew heavy Realms of Chaos (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/member.php?u=24299) while we were on a camping trip, our last meeting before he leaves for Japan. We each contributed aspects of the character as a concept and then I wrote up the stats and exact methodology. He is intended to be a recurring villain who returns time and time again in a dark or horror-themed campaign, and not a one-shot encounter, and is built as such; the combination of his class and species makes him, in fact, impossible to kill or even harm with conventional weapons. However, as he rarely uses lethal damage, he makes an ideal villain even when introduced early; if the PCs choose to stand and fight at any level, the chances of him actually killing them are very low (even if the chances of him defeating them are very high).

Here he is, for your review and use.


Dreadnought
Male Troll Crimson Scourge 10
NE Large Giant
Init +6
Languages Giant, Common
AC: 22 (-1 size, +5 natural, +3 dodge +5 armor)
HP 189 (67 Troll+122 Crimson Scourge)
Saves Fort +18 Ref +12 Will +6
Speed 30 ft (6 squares)
Space/Reach 10 feet/ 10 feet
Base Atk: +14 Grp: +28
Melee Large Impact Heavy Flail +26 (2d8+17, 17-20)
Melee Claw +24 (1d6+10)
Melee Bite +24 (1d6+10)
Ranged Net +26 (special effect)
Ranged Hammers +24 (1d6+10)
Typical Attacks: Full unarmed attack (2 claws and one bite; Dreadnought usually chooses not to bite for concealment of identity), Impact Heavy Flail Attack typically using Power Attack and/or Awesome Blow, net or hammers from range (he never uses the hammers in close quarters)
Abilities STR 30, DEX 16, CON 23, INT 12, WIS 12, CHA 7
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft, Low-light vision, Regeneration 5, Scent
Feats: Animal Affinity, Urban Tracking, Brutal Throw, Improved Disarm, Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Awesome Blow
Skills (factoring in ability modifiers): Balance +5, Bluff +1, Climb +12, Craft (trapmaking) +4, Diplomacy +4, Disable Device +4, Disguise +1, Gather Information +9, Handle Animal +8, Heal +2, Hide +2, Intimidate +10, Jump +11, Knowledge (local) +4, Listen +5, Move Silently +6, Ride +7, Search +6, Sense Motive +3, Spot +8, Survival +2, Swim +10, Use Rope +7
Possessions: +2 Studded Leather Armor, Shadow Veil, Large +2 Impact Heavy Flail, +3 Net, Troll Gut Rope, 5 large light hammers

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Dreadnought is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, light and medium armor and shields (but not tower shields) and nets
Kid Gloves: Dreadnought excels at manipulating the wounds he inflicts, causing more or less harm as the situation demands. He can deal nonlethal damage with weapons that normally do lethal damage or vice versa without penalty.
Special Dispensation: While operating in an area where bounty hunting, slave-catching, or a similar profession is legal, Dreadnought gains the benefit of the Special Dispensation feat.
Rend: If both claw attacks hit, Dreadnought latches onto the opponent’s body and deals an additional 2d6+9 points of damage. The DM can rule whether this counts toward nonlethal damage via his Kid Gloves ability.
Regeneration: Fire and Acid deal normal damage to a troll. All other damage is treated as nonlethal damage. The creature automatically heals nonlethal damage at 5/round; however, as a Crimson Scourge, Dreadnought is immune to nonlethal damage, thus making him immune to all non-fire-and-acid-damage. If a troll loses a limb or body part, the lost portion regrows in 3d6 minutes. The creature can reattach the severed member instantly by holding it to the stump.
Scent: Dreadnought can detect approaching enemies, sniff out hidden foes, and track by scent of smell. He can detect opponents within 30 feet by sense of smell. If the opponent is upwind, the range increases to 60 feet; if downwind, it drops to 15 feet. Strong scents such as smoke or rotting garbage can be detected at twice the range as noted above; overpowering scents such as skunk musk or troglodyte stench can be detected at triple the normal range. When Dreadnought detects a scent, the exact location of the source is not revealed – only its presence somewhere within the range. He can take a move action to note the direction of a scent. Whenever he comes within 5 feet of the source, he pinpoints the source’s location.
Dreadnought's scent ability assists his urban tracking ability, allowing him to use his sense of smell to locate and follow a track with a Wisdom check or a Gather Information check. The typical DC for a fresh trail is 10, which increases or decreases depending on how strong the quarry’s odor is, the number of creatures, and the age of the trail. For each hour that the trail is cold, the DC increases by 2. The ability otherwise functions as the Urban Tracking feat.
Swift Tracker: Dreadnought can make a Gather Information check when using Urban Tracking every half-hour without taking the usual penalty.
Painful Strike: Dreadnought deals an extra 3d6 points of nonlethal damage when making a melee attack that deals nonlethal damage against an unarmed opponent. This ability does not function if the opponent has a weapon of any sort in either hand, or if his attack deals lethal damage. This ability never applies to ranged attacks. If he scores a critical hit with a melee attack, the extra damage is not multiplied. Creatures not subject to nonlethal damage are immune to this ability.
Immovable Heart: Dreadnought's emotions are hard and cold. He gains a +2 competence bonus to resist enchantment spells and fear effects.
Threaten: Dreadnought can attempt to use an intimidate skill to demoralize an opponent as a move action, rather than a standard action. A successful attempt causes the target to be shaken for a number of rounds equal to his unmodified strength modifier (10). He gains an additional +2 bonus on all Intimidate checks to demoralize opponents.
Deadened Hide: Dreadnought is immune to nonlethal damage and to spells or effects that inflict or manipulate pain.
Smell of Blood: Dreadnought gains a +3 insight bonus on initiative checks.

"You cannot stop me. I am absolute, I am inevitable, and you are mine."

The man (if it is a man) that approaches is one of the most imposing figures that you have ever seen. Underneath a tight-fitting suit of black leather, his nine-foot frame is a veritable knot of muscle, bulging and flexing in excess of what should be natural as he moves. His head and shoulders are indistinct shapes that seem wreathed in shadow, never allowing a clear view of his features above the chest. With an immense, heavy flail dragging along the pavement on one side, however, and a thick net on the other, you can tell that he means business, and his business is decidedly unsavory.

Dreadnought is a great and terrible threat all his own who has made a career of playing the sidekick and right-hand man to many (often lesser) villains. He had the misfortune of being born a troll in civilized society, which meant that even from youth he knew prejudice, hate, and bigotry, and learned to find little value in the human race. It was only natural that he fall into the illicit business of revenge, hunting humans down and delivering them to the humans who wanted them--usually alive but not for much longer.

He had an especially great talent for finding and subduing the heroic adventuring types that plagued the land--whether it be personal anger at their monster (and troll)-slaying antics or simple greed at the high prices often associated with them is unknown--and this, by natural progression, lead him into fields of greater villainy. Over the course of his illustrious mercenary career he's personally arrested a league of heroic woodsmen for an evil baron's army, delivered a tribal warlord in chains to his ancestral enemy (and later delivered the warlord to the family of said enemy because they paid better), kidnapped a crown prince as part of a conspiracy perpetuated by doppelgangers, and dragged a famous paladin, kicking and screaming, to the doorstep of a powerful necromancer, the paladin's archenemy. The necromancer made a cloak out of that paladin's spirit and gave it to his favorite servant; though the necromancer has passed on, Dreadnought still wears the Shadow Veil to obscure his features and take his prey off-guard today. It was about this time, as well, that his skin finally hardened into a thick, armor-like husk, rendering him invincible to all but fire and acid. He has never felt the bite of a weapon since; arrows and swords merely bounce off his skin as if they were pebbles on rubber.

Today Dreadnought is an urban legend, a modern bogeyman. Authorities officially deny his existence, while great evils, realizing the innate benefit in having an utterly invincible, unstoppable juggernaut on their payroll, continue to employ his services. The intrepid heroes of your campaign may defeat the villain; they may save the day...but as long as they remain a threat to someone very powerful and very evil, and as long as Dreadnought still draws breath, they can never truly be safe.

arguskos
2009-08-31, 03:32 AM
1. This is pretty awesome, and I'll be using it.

2. Where is Crimson Scourge from? I'm guessing it's either your or Realms' homebrew work, but I don't see a source given. Is there a full class I can take a peek at? I'd love to use it for other NPCs. :smallamused:

KillianHawkeye
2009-08-31, 03:46 AM
Google search shows that it is from Cityscape. Also, awesome villain! :smallbiggrin:

NecroPaladin
2009-08-31, 04:43 AM
Thank you!

And yes, it is a prestige class from Cityscape. I only took one liberty with his creation, which is the Handle Animal skill; it requires eight ranks, whereas an unaugmented troll could only feasibly take 5 ranks (7 with his feat), as it is a cross-class skill. However, I found that when I added additional giant hit dice or a ranger level he became unwieldy with superfluous or unnecessary extra tidbits, so I thought that it made more sense to bend the rules if it only meant granting him one extra skill point.

The books that he draws on are as follows:

Monster Manual: The troll entry and his Awesome Blow feat.
Cityscape: The Crimson Scourge prestige class, which is sort of like an evil urban variant of the Bloodhound prestige class from Complete Adventurer.
Arms and Equipment Guide or Magic Item Compendium: The Impact enchantment, which doubles the threat of his flail, and Troll Gut Rope, which is an extending rope made out of...well...
Libris Mortis: the Shadow Veil, which is a cloak that obscures the target and gives it 20% deflection.
Complete Adventurer: The Brutal Throw feat, which grants him his strength bonus instead of his dex bonus as the to-hit for his net and hammers. Also, consider giving him levels in Bloodhound if you want to advance him past a CR 15.

I'll put a little more thought into an entry on how he might be played once I get some sleep.

Starbuck_II
2009-08-31, 05:11 AM
There is a spell that stops Regeneation (Spell Compendruim I think). So if he fails a save: there is one way to defeat him.

But man, he is tough to kill otherwise.

Well, save or dies. Not bad though.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-08-31, 06:49 AM
If you need to have this in-rules, kill one of his feats for Skill Training (Handle Animal) from Unearthed Arcana. But 1 extra cross-class skill point is no great fudge - plenty of variant rules could give Handle Animal as a free class skill.

AslanCross
2009-08-31, 06:50 AM
Always liked the idea of a troll villain playing against type (which is usually a mindless engine of destruction).

An epic level version of him would probably use the War Troll as a base. DR/Adamantine, Regeneration bypassed ONLY by acid, decent intelligence, and the horribly painful Dazing Strike. Dazing Strike would work really well with your bounty hunter flavor too.

Roderick_BR
2009-08-31, 08:45 AM
"Nothing can stop the unstoppable Dreadnought"
Sorry, I had to.
Looks good. I may use him next time I need a recurring villain my players won't kill in two rounds (and that is not a wizard/cleric/druid)

@AslanCross: An epic level could use the Legendary Dreadnought epic PrC. That WAS designed to mimic X-Men's Juggernaut's abilities. Would make this guy even scarier.

mostlyharmful
2009-08-31, 09:51 AM
@AslanCross: An epic level could use the Legendary Dreadnought epic PrC. That WAS designed to mimic X-Men's Juggernaut's abilities. Would make this guy even scarier.

A task at which it epicly failed. the PrC is cronicly underpowered for a pre-epic class let alone one that's suppossed to keep it relivant at epic brokeness levels when wizards are creating their own slave races and clerics are starting a religion to themselves. I mean, a couple of times a day they get to add 20 to a few rolls and they get a few extra hp and a tiny DR/-...... and they can't get hold of these until at least level 24.... what?:smallconfused:

Doc Roc
2009-08-31, 10:15 AM
I'm not convinced my players wouldn't blast him down in a couple of rounds. Can he fly?

NecroPaladin
2009-08-31, 02:18 PM
I'm not convinced my players wouldn't blast him down in a couple of rounds. Can he fly?

I take it that your players are big fans of fire and acid spells.

Note that you shouldn't reveal the origin of his powers on his first encounter. He's meant to be 'the big guy with the head wreathed in shadow,' not 'the obvious troll with crimson scourge levels.' If your players wheedle his weakness out of you, of course they're going to metagame and make some acid-and-fire-focused spell choices and builds. That said, with 189 hit points he still has plenty of time to focus on and beat the daylights out of anyone who inadvertently discovers his weakness.

With his power attack, say, using 9 points, and assuming that he's smart enough (at 12 intelligence, this should be a given) to focus his attacks on enemies who threaten him, this means that your glass cannon caster, the most common build that actually threatens him, is likely taking 2d8+28 damage per round with a high threat range for crits, unless his AC towers well over 25, which is a bit unlikely for a sorcerer or wizard (and even then Dreadnought could simply sacrifice some damage to boost his to-hit via power attack again). Considering that the average caster hit die is 4, and generously assuming that this caster has a CON of 15 (uncommon for a caster), this means that the caster is regularly taking 37 points of damage, which is, in average cases, about half the health of said caster at level 15. Unless he's taking enough damage to lose 189 hit points in two rounds, that caster is out of there.

Doc Roc
2009-08-31, 02:20 PM
Trolls are subject to knowledge rolls, as are crimson scourge levels.

NecroPaladin
2009-08-31, 02:27 PM
It would be pretty easy to find out that he's a crimson scourge, but part of the point is that he hides his identity as a troll (although it would be easy to find out magically). Either way, I don't think that your players are going to be scrambling to find the origin of his powers unless he's beaten them once or twice before or unless they're metagaming before the first real encounter. His power shouldn't be presented as a bastardization of regeneration or stated as such.

Doc Roc
2009-08-31, 02:30 PM
Maybe he should have more than one rank in disguise or some way of pulling off alter self then? How about a nice little hat of disguise for our dear trollkin?

Foryn Gilnith
2009-08-31, 02:34 PM
His power shouldn't be presented as a bastardization of regeneration or stated as such.

Could have said that in the OP...

Also, his will save is only +8 or so. He also has no way to see invisibility or fly. Things that are effectively Save or Dies will be sufficient to get him into some sort of Adamantine Shackles or an analogue (or, alternatively, use him as a hammer against whomever); after which experimentation to find his weaknesses ensue. This will likely consist of removing his helmet, seeing his troll-face, and applying fire liberally.

PS: Also, Shadow Veil occupies a body slot - the same as armor. It is not actually a veil. The flavor text (emphasis added) says "This greenish, indistinct robe is designed to envelop the entire body." It isn't compatible with his studded leather.
EDIT: NVM, that's the MIC version. Reading LM and putting foot in mouth now...
PPS: The point stands - it precludes wearing armor. Also, from the illustration, it's basically a hooded robe. Maybe more for people without darkvision. You're going to need some ranks in Disguise to conceal trollishness.
PPPS: As was mentioned earlier, he can't fly; which is a significant detriment. The hero types he faces are likely to have Haste, Fly, Teleport, or similar effects to escape. He only has Spot +8, and only Low-Light Vision, which makes detecting stealthy folks difficult. Ego Whip could be a threat, but at that point I'm grasping at straws to find weaknesses in him. :P

only1doug
2009-08-31, 02:37 PM
I take it that your players are big fans of fire and acid spells.

My group tend to use sonic quite often but flame strike is a particular favorite of the party druid.


With his power attack, say, using 9 points, and assuming that he's smart enough (at 12 intelligence, this should be a given) to focus his attacks on enemies who threaten him, this means that your glass cannon caster, the most common build that actually threatens him, is likely taking 2d8+28 damage per round with a high threat range for crits, unless his AC towers well over 25, which is a bit unlikely for a sorcerer or wizard (and even then Dreadnought could simply sacrifice some damage to boost his to-hit via power attack again). Considering that the average caster hit die is 4, and generously assuming that this caster has a CON of 15 (uncommon for a caster), this means that the caster is regularly taking 37 points of damage, which is, in average cases, about half the health of said caster at level 15. Unless he's taking enough damage to lose 189 hit points in two rounds, that caster is out of there.

Druid: d8 hit die. (this druid has enough warshaper levels to be immune to crits).

an eagle repeatedly rains fire upon your Large hooded figure until it decides to go away.



Note that you shouldn't reveal the origin of his powers on his first encounter. He's meant to be 'the big guy with the head wreathed in shadow,' not 'the obvious troll with crimson scourge levels.' If your players wheedle his weakness out of you, of course they're going to metagame and make some acid-and-fire-focused spell choices and builds. That said, with 189 hit points he still has plenty of time to focus on and beat the daylights out of anyone who inadvertently discovers his weakness.



so you wouldn't reveal to your players that the enemy they are hitting for 40+ damage isn't actually bothered at all by it? do they get to know which attacks seem to bother it and which don't?

Grumman
2009-08-31, 02:50 PM
His power shouldn't be presented as a bastardization of regeneration or stated as such.
If you are denying your players what should be in-character knowledge to force them to make incorrect decisions, I'd consider this to be cheating.

NecroPaladin
2009-08-31, 04:29 PM
Also, his will save is only +8 or so. He also has no way to see invisibility or fly. Things that are effectively Save or Dies will be sufficient to get him into some sort of Adamantine Shackles or an analogue (or, alternatively, use him as a hammer against whomever); after which experimentation to find his weaknesses ensue. This will likely consist of removing his helmet, seeing his troll-face, and applying fire liberally.

That is a weakness. He's not supposed to be literally unstoppable; otherwise I would have presented him as a game-breaking exploit and not a free villain.



PPS: The point stands - it precludes wearing armor. Also, from the illustration, it's basically a hooded robe. Maybe more for people without darkvision. You're going to need some ranks in Disguise to conceal trollishness.


The veil is mostly for flavor, and the benefits of the veil are fairly unnecessary. It would be simple to work out a magic helmet that conceals his face instead.


If you are denying your players what should be in-character knowledge to force them to make incorrect decisions, I'd consider this to be cheating.

I never said that this couldn't be found out. However, a DM using him should state that 'your weapon bounces off his skin,' not that 'your weapon has no effect on him because of his regeneration coupled with his crimson scourge levels, and thus you can defeat him with fire, acid, or a neutralization of the regeneration effect.' They need to deduce that on their own--or, rather, their characters' own, which in my experience with D&D players is not a given.

Obviously once they'd put some research in they'd discover the origins of his powers, but players who immediately identify him as a troll crimson scourge, I would identify as metagamers.


so you wouldn't reveal to your players that the enemy they are hitting for 40+ damage isn't actually bothered at all by it? do they get to know which attacks seem to bother it and which don't?

Oh, of course I would. There's no sense in denying the players the joy of finding his weaknesses. In fact, if confronted with a situation like that druid, Dreadnought would flee; He could always hunt them down later when they're in a less advantageous scenario.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-08-31, 04:40 PM
However, a DM using him should state that 'your weapon bounces off his skin,' not that 'your weapon has no effect on him because of his regeneration coupled with his crimson scourge levels, and thus you can defeat him with fire, acid, or a neutralization of the regeneration effect.'

I suppose that's fine - regeneration when you're immune to nonlethal damage isn't covered by the rules, so GM can describe however is fitting. What's to stop the players from just knowing he's a troll, though? Shadow Veil is basically a glorified robe that offers Hide checks from those without darkvision. It won't do too much to help his Disguise modifier of +1 against comparably leveled PCs.


EDIT: Deleted a whole bunch of irrelevant stuff that needs to be revised.

NecroPaladin
2009-08-31, 05:41 PM
It was mostly for flair; he's not a smart enough NPC to know to use alter self charms and items, so I tried to think of a stylish way for him to conceal his identity. He should be pretty easy for an experienced NPC to identify, as you note; if you want to make him harder to combat, you could give him a more comprehensive disguise.

mostlyharmful
2009-08-31, 07:16 PM
I take it that your players are big fans of fire and acid spells.

Acid. Nobodies immune or resistant so if you've got the choice.

Fire. Every-damn-spell, fireball, firewall, firetrap, firestorm, fireseeds, fireshield, flamearrow, flamestrike, flaming sphere.....

why yes, yes they do seem to be so yes.

Unless of course they start using save or lose/die like finger of death, feeblemind, baleful polymorph, etc....

Starbuck_II
2009-08-31, 07:35 PM
Angels are immune or at least resistant to acid.

NecroPaladin
2009-08-31, 10:10 PM
Unless of course they start using save or lose/die like finger of death, feeblemind, baleful polymorph, etc....

Aside from Will, his saves are pretty hefty. Although that does make me think that he needs a magic item to help that will save if he's going to be a big bad, same with something to disguise his nature...

Thurbane
2009-08-31, 10:27 PM
I love this character concept, and will definitely be using it in a future game. :smallsmile:

Aside from Will, his saves are pretty hefty. Although that does make me think that he needs a magic item to help that will save if he's going to be a big bad, same with something to disguise his nature...
There's a few will boosters in the MiC - a Mask that gives +10, and an armor enhancement that gives +5 to Will 3/day.

Grumman
2009-09-01, 06:22 AM
However, a DM using him should state that 'your weapon bounces off his skin,'
No, he shouldn't, because neither Regeneration or Deaden Skin actually make you harder to cut. Regeneration lets you heal faster than your body can die, and Deaden Skin lets you no-sell minor injuries. They work by letting you bypass the normal physiological effects of damage to your body. They don't let you avoid the damage altogether, like Damage Reduction or Hardness do.

Cieyrin
2009-09-01, 11:07 AM
No, he shouldn't, because neither Regeneration or Deaden Skin actually make you harder to cut. Regeneration lets you heal faster than your body can die, and Deaden Skin lets you no-sell minor injuries. They work by letting you bypass the normal physiological effects of damage to your body. They don't let you avoid the damage altogether, like Damage Reduction or Hardness do.

You don't understand this whole colorful description thing, do you? Also, DR, depending on how you explain it and who has it, can be explained as ultra fast-regen against things that they aren't vulnerable to. Particularly on outsider folk that need properly aligned weaponry to harm, the vrock laughs as your unblessed steel cuts his flesh and it closes up afterwards.

And anyways, how else do you describe the effects of Regeneration and Deaden Skin when used together than to say bounces off. I suppose, if you want to accurately describe it, the effect of Deaden Skin descriptively would be that you cut him and he feels nothing and because he feels nothing, he suffers nothing. So I suppose, if you want to be really accurate about it, the DM would say your weapon doesn't make him flinch as it connects and he laughs at you and your paltry attempt to harm his perfect being.

Them's my 2 coppers. Take as you will.

Korivan
2009-09-01, 11:16 AM
Not sure if anyone thought of this yet, but if you put the energy immunity enhantment on his armour, then for 1 minute x/day you can make the Dreadnought immune to fire or acid.

Doc Roc
2009-09-01, 12:19 PM
You don't understand this whole colorful description thing, do you? Also, DR, depending on how you explain it and who has it, can be explained as ultra fast-regen against things that they aren't vulnerable to. Particularly on outsider folk that need properly aligned weaponry to harm, the vrock laughs as your unblessed steel cuts his flesh and it closes up afterwards.

The issue is that descriptions directly affect what a character knows. Using a description to hide something that's probably bloody obvious to anyone with a positive int mod just.... rubs me the wrong way. He's very vulnerable to a quick knowledge check. I mean, seriously, what's the DC on knowing what a bloody troll is?

Choco
2009-09-01, 12:21 PM
Also rings of acid/fire resistance. Immunity too if he's got the $$ for something like that. That would be one scary dude. Gotta do something bout that will save too, will-based Save or Die/Suck spells would tear him apart.

Doc Roc
2009-09-01, 12:23 PM
That combo is.... pretty well known in CO circles. It's annoying, but not indestructable. War Trolls are FAR more annoying, because you can't just limited wish into psychic reformation and pick up searing spell. Fortunately, very few things are immune to DEATH BY AWESOME.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-09-01, 12:29 PM
The issue is that descriptions directly affect what a character knows. Using a description to hide something that's probably bloody obvious to anyone with a positive int mod just.... rubs me the wrong way. He's very vulnerable to a quick knowledge check. I mean, seriously, what's the DC on knowing what a bloody troll is?

Spot check. That's the way you get past the description "hiding" something. DC 21, at most; DC 12.5 most of the time. Dreadnought only has Disguise +1.

It's going to be mighty difficult to whittle down his HP, though. I'd advise Feeblemind, plus either Diplomancy or Enchantments; then Coup de Grace in sleep. Or insanity/power word blind, if you have 7th-level spells (he's CR 15, but as a BBEG he'll be higher CR than the party's level). That's just in core, though, since that's all I can access now.

Doc Roc
2009-09-01, 01:31 PM
Searing Spell + Fireseeds.

Truwar
2009-09-01, 03:12 PM
Or Slow, reducing the Dreadnaught to 1 attack a round (or one move).
+ ray of exhaustion. If he saves he gets -2 to str & dex and cannot run or charge. If he fails he gets -6 to str & dex and his move is reduced to 15.
+ Another ray of exhaustion (if he makes his first save) this will reduce him to -6 str & dex and a move of 15 whether or not he saves.
+Ray on enfeeblement. At this point the Dreadnaught’s str will be reduced from 30 to 16, on average, he will have a move of 15’ and will only be able to make one attack (if he forgoes a move) per round at -1 to hit (slow spell).

If the level 8 mage in this example had another ray of enfeeblement handy (I would) he could drop the Dreadnaught’s strength down to 8 and have the fighter put him in a head lock until they figure out they can burn him to death with torches.

If it was a level 9 mage he could just cut to the chase and use feeblemind, followed up by bestow curse to drive the Dreadnaught’s intelligence and charisma to 0 until the Dreadnaught gets a heal and a remove curse cast on him.

The problem with the Dreadnaught, in my opinion, is that he is too immune to one type of attack and too vulnerable to another type of attack. If you make him more resistant to spells, you are going to have a creature so invulnerable to attack that that players will feel it is simply a poorly disguised dues ex machina conductor on the plot railroad. If you do not make him more resistant to spells, the mage will take him down right away.

Starbuck_II
2009-09-01, 03:20 PM
Waity, slowing/weakening him just makes him a invulnerable but weaker till duration wears off.

He still can be a threat (unless party flys).

Foryn Gilnith
2009-09-01, 03:22 PM
If it was a level 9 mage he could just cut to the chase and use feeblemind, followed up by bestow curse to drive the Dreadnaught’s intelligence and charisma to 0 until the Dreadnaught gets a heal and a remove curse cast on him.



-6 decrease to an ability score (minimum 1).

That doesn't work.



Dreadnought will likely get what he came for, the first time. He'd better hope what he came for was the mage, because otherwise, he's going to have a party gunning for his head with the mentioned tactics.
Actually, with an Intelligence 14, he should go for the mage first. It might not always work, but it will work enough to give him a reputation and a significant edge against most of the more foolish wizards.

Platinius
2009-09-01, 03:30 PM
How about a few Desintegrate spells?

Cieyrin
2009-09-01, 03:37 PM
How about a few Desintegrate spells?

Disintegrate does normal damage, not acid or fire, which he's basically immune to. If you target his equipment with them, then that's devilish and underhanded and also asking for a war of attrition, as if the players do it, the DM is justified to return in kind.

Truwar
2009-09-01, 04:03 PM
Whoops, misread Bestow Curse. I guess you could just magic jar him instead and hold still while the party chains the Dreadnaught's body up, or figures out how to destroy it.

The cleric could planeshift him if he gets to the wizard. Although that is not "technically" killing him it does take him out of action and the elemental plane of fire would be my cleric's default location for most non-fiery types anyhow.

The level 9 bard could charm him as well.

NecroPaladin
2009-09-01, 05:02 PM
Whoops, misread Bestow Curse. I guess you could just magic jar him instead and hold still while the party chains the Dreadnaught's body up, or figures out how to destroy it.

Those'd have to be pretty tough chains, given his STR bonus once he's awake. But yeah, casters will eat him alive, so he needs to target them first.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-09-01, 05:48 PM
Dungeonscape - Adamantine Manacles, 2000 gp, weight 5 lb. Escape Artist DC 35 to escape, Strength DC 52 to break (yes, 52). Hardness 20, hit points 15.

NecroPaladin
2009-09-01, 05:52 PM
I like how we're now going out of our way to search for items that would be his quote-unquote "one weakness." Nevertheless, if the PCs got a pair of those, he would have problems.

Cieyrin
2009-09-01, 06:11 PM
Dungeonscape - Adamantine Manacles, 2000 gp, weight 5 lb. Escape Artist DC 35 to escape, Strength DC 52 to break (yes, 52). Hardness 20, hit points 15.

How many people off-hand carry adamantine manacles specifically for chaining up strong monsters, really?:smallconfused:

Doc Roc
2009-09-01, 06:19 PM
I like how we're now going out of our way to search for items that would be his quote-unquote "one weakness." Nevertheless, if the PCs got a pair of those, he would have problems.

Uhhhh...

Limited wish->Psychic Reformation->Searing Spell, pick up fire seeds or another favored MM starting point, swap your feat build into a MM blaster, and blow him away. Oh, and I normally carry about eight feet of very fine riverine chain, when I can afford it. Totally unbreakable, and trying probably just means you cut yourself.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-09-01, 06:21 PM
It isn't so much Dreadnought's "one weakness" as the "one weakness" of larger creatures in general. None of these tactics need to be addressed against him - they are designed to work against generic uber-tough monster with low will save. While it's true that very, very few people would carry around Adamantine Shackles, if anybody was trying to chain up Dreadnought or any other tough monster, they'd certainly buy these.

PS: What madness is riverine?

Doc Roc
2009-09-01, 06:28 PM
Stormwrack. It's made from shaped walls of force and deep-sea trench water.

Realms of Chaos
2009-09-13, 04:32 PM
Actually, Necropaladin, one thing that I was going to suggest when we were cooking this guy up is taking off the last 2 levels of crimson scourge (losing 1d6 painful strike damage and +3 initiative) and in turn give it a level or two of bloodhound (enough for it to get swift tracking in the wilderness as well as the city) as well as the shadow template (+1 CR, total concealment while not in daylight, speed x 1.5, and a +2 luck bonus to all saving throws along with evasion).

For a higher level build, increase the bloodhound level up to 6 (and the CR to 20 if I'm doing my math right).

Also worthy of note is the detatch feat from Savage Species. There is nothing creepier than having your pursuer rip off their arm and throw it at you. The best part is the the Troll gains immunity to the resulting nonlethal damage.

jiriku
2009-09-13, 04:48 PM
I like this guy. I think I shall put a hat of disguise on his head and use him. With a good in-depth description, it should be easy to lay hints as to what's going on while still leaving it a mystery in need of solving. Plus, I hardly ever use trolls, so a troll in a city will definitely catch my players off guard.

Thanks to both of you!