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Paganboy28
2009-08-31, 05:39 AM
The Pixie seems to be a good caster race, albeit with a +4LA.

The stats are excellent, small size, flight, etc.


However, my DM does not like the Greater Invisibility at will, and wants to reduce this to Invisibility at will.


What LA would you suggest I bargin with him for the Pixie with this in mind.

+2???

Melamoto
2009-08-31, 05:42 AM
Greater Invisibility is not worth +2 LA. Especially if it's replaced by Invisibility. I'd say that reducing it like that isn't worth any LA reduction. Maybe one of the LA could be replaced by a RHD instead.

PinkysBrain
2009-08-31, 05:48 AM
Nothing with LA is a good caster race for players.

SoD
2009-08-31, 05:50 AM
Nothing with LA is a good caster race for players.

Unless, and this is me venturing out on a limb here, they maybe want it because they think it'll be a fun character to play, instead of a massively overpowered munchkiny character to play?

Pika...
2009-08-31, 05:51 AM
Nothing with LA is a good caster race for players.

Depends on if you are in it for optimization or roleplaying.

Paganboy28
2009-08-31, 06:01 AM
I think its just a bit of fun really.

A small weak and feeble pixie blasting the hell out of some big mob.

"ah its alright its a large fly... who is shooting fireballs at us!!!"


I know LA is generally bad for casters, but then i'm not really wanting to run the calculator and get the cheese-file out to work out how I can "optimise" my character.

LA can be bought off as well so in the long run its not so big a deal.

Plus i'd take fun and enjoyment over optimising any day.

Paganboy28
2009-08-31, 06:03 AM
Greater Invisibility is not worth +2 LA. Especially if it's replaced by Invisibility. I'd say that reducing it like that isn't worth any LA reduction. Maybe one of the LA could be replaced by a RHD instead.

Hmm. Greater Invisibility is so much better than Invisibility. Being able to attack AND remain invisible is marvellous.

I'd say its at least a -1LA to the normal Pixie, making it a +3LA.

Killer Angel
2009-08-31, 06:06 AM
I "ah its alright its a large fly... who is shooting fireballs at us!!!"


And this confirms that you're not looking for optimization! :smallbiggrin:
Have fun! :smallsmile:

PinkysBrain
2009-08-31, 06:07 AM
LA can be bought off as well so in the long run its not so big a deal.
In most campaigns only LA+ 1&2 can be realistically bought off at a reasonable rate ... at 9, 15, 18 LA+3 is already going to put buy off out of range for people not heading into an epic campaign.

Fizban
2009-08-31, 06:11 AM
Greater Invisibility (and it's continuous, not just at will!) is worth LA, but normal Invisibility at will (needs to be refreshed periodically) is not worth nearly as much LA. Fully functional out of the box wings are usually a minimum of +2, and I'd say the invisibility can't be more than +1 over that. Rings of Invisibility are spendy, but not enough to warrant a level adjustment.

In fact, you could try negotiating some Raptoran/Dragonborn like wings along with a scaling invisibility and bring it down to LA +1 easy.

NPCMook
2009-08-31, 06:13 AM
Pixie Lich, go.

PinkysBrain
2009-08-31, 06:17 AM
At high level a Sylph (MM2) is pretty playable. LA+5, but casts as a sorcerer of HD+4. Small outsider with humanoid shape, wings and improved invisibility.

daggaz
2009-08-31, 06:23 AM
Even if its only normal invisibility, its at will as a free action with a constant permanent effect (tho the pixie can drop it), if you are going from the original ability.

That is still very, very powerful, almost (but not just quite) as good as greater invisibilty as the normal spell. Sure, you expose yourself upon attacking, but just attack while flying and out of range, and next round hey presto you are invis again.

I wouldnt drop the LA at all for that.

Yuki Akuma
2009-08-31, 06:30 AM
If you change it to a normal spell-like ability, useable at-will, I could see dropping the LA by maybe 1.

Paganboy28
2009-08-31, 07:19 AM
At high level a Sylph (MM2) is pretty playable. LA+5, but casts as a sorcerer of HD+4. Small outsider with humanoid shape, wings and improved invisibility.


I quite like the Sylph. seeing as we are playing at 8th level at the moment it would fit right in. I'd be caster level 7, plus able to summon a Large Elemental is always fun.

Hmm... do sylphs HAVE to be female???

So ability wise they would have:

STR -2 / DEX +2 / CON -2 / INT +4 / WIS +6 / CHA +6


Since they cast spells as a sorcerer of the HD+4, how does that work if you enter a theurgic class, say Eldritch theurge?

As they advance the ET class, does their racial sorcerer level go up as well?

So you could have Sylph/Warlock 4/ET x and get Sylph+ET/Warlock+ET.

Radar
2009-08-31, 08:21 AM
If you concentrate on summons, buffs or illusions (avoid direct attacks), then the Invisibility will work just as well as it's greater version.

PinkysBrain
2009-08-31, 09:25 AM
Since they cast spells as a sorcerer of the HD+4, how does that work if you enter a theurgic class, say Eldritch theurge.
I'd say it only works for racial HD.

Jack Zander
2009-08-31, 09:28 AM
I'd drop the LA by 1 maybe. Though you can still just be a summoner/buffer and never become visible while still kicking butt.

Doc Roc
2009-08-31, 10:01 AM
Unless, and this is me venturing out on a limb here, they maybe want it because they think it'll be a fun character to play, instead of a massively overpowered munchkiny character to play?

Hah, unfortunately, you're wrong. The Pixie is a superb caster race, though not a main-line option, because you can buy off one point of LA before 20, allowing you 9th level spells. The racial hit-dice "dissolves" so you don't have to worry about that, just the LA. Pixies were popularized by the excellent Carnivore over at GitP. Would you like some build links?

Paganboy28
2009-08-31, 10:08 AM
Hah, unfortunately, you're wrong. The Pixie is a superb caster race, though not a main-line option, because you can buy off one point of LA before 20, allowing you 9th level spells. The racial hit-dice "dissolves" so you don't have to worry about that, just the LA. Pixies were popularized by the excellent Carnivore over at GitP. Would you like some build links?

Always helpful. Glad to see I am not the only mad person on here. Pixie's rule.

Paganboy28
2009-08-31, 10:59 AM
Ahha!

I am having images of a psychotic small-greatsword wielding pixie/or sylph popping in and out of invisibility to cast a boom-spell (or maybe summoning and remaining invisible for a while) shouting out warcry's and such.

Maybe they even take the feat that allows them to wield big weapons (normal sized) so they heft round a greatsword that is probably bigger than them!

Divebomb attacks!!!


Just have to avoid the fly-swatters....

Cieyrin
2009-08-31, 11:14 AM
When I think of fey casters, I think of these: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60286 (Please don't post to the provided thread, it's old, old, OLD!)

I'm also not really seeing a Pixie being very good as a standard gish, though a rogue/wizard/unseen seer or arcane trickster could definitely work. You also may want to check the Being Tiny thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=122929&page=3) for ideas.

Them's my 2 coppers. Take as you will.

Olo Demonsbane
2009-08-31, 12:21 PM
Theres the Pixie Handbook on gleemax, but I cant really acess my old links...could someone get it?

UserClone
2009-08-31, 12:47 PM
Am I correct in assuming that the Sylph's sorcerer casting only increases with racial hit dice, and not class hit dice? So for example, you couldn't take fighter levels and still keep getting spellcasting increases, right?

Paganboy28
2009-08-31, 01:07 PM
Am I correct in assuming that the Sylph's sorcerer casting only increases with racial hit dice, and not class hit dice? So for example, you couldn't take fighter levels and still keep getting spellcasting increases, right?

It just says in the entry CL equal to its HD+4.... DM fiat i guess.

UserClone
2009-08-31, 01:31 PM
Well it also doesn't list an LA, since it's a 3.0 source which required the update booklet...anyone else have a definitive answer?

Paganboy28
2009-08-31, 01:35 PM
Well it also doesn't list an LA, since it's a 3.0 source which required the update booklet...anyone else have a definitive answer?

LA+5 is what I thought it was.... though as you say, its not in the book.

UserClone
2009-08-31, 01:43 PM
Yeah, the LA and official stats are in the 3.5 update booklet, which updated the most popular 3.0 material to 3.5 officially.

Talya
2009-08-31, 02:57 PM
Theres the Pixie Handbook on gleemax, but I cant really acess my old links...could someone get it?

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871070/The_Pixie_Handbook

Looks like the formating is all messed up, but it's still there.

PinkysBrain
2009-08-31, 03:07 PM
Yeah, the LA and official stats are in the 3.5 update booklet, which updated the most popular 3.0 material to 3.5 officially.

For reference :
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20030718a