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TheThan
2009-08-31, 01:19 PM
I’m working on a new D20 based fantasy roleplaying game. While I was working out which races I want to be represented in the “core” races I’ve decided to give each races a different attribute adjustment. So far I have:

Dwarf: +2 constitution
Elf: +2 wisdom
Gnome: +2 intelligence
Halfing: +2 dex
Human: +2 to one ability score of your choice
Orc: +2 strength

Each race has additional other benefits that I have not listed. However looking at this, I have five of the six attributes plus humans, I need a race to represent charisma. I was thinking some sort of fey,or possibly the Tiefling. However I’m not so sure I like any of those choices. So I was wondering if anyone had any other ideas for a highly charismatic race. I would appreciate any input.

Eloel
2009-08-31, 01:24 PM
There's always Spellscale from Races of Dragon for bonus to Charisma.
You could also swap around a bit;
Gnome & Cha (Favored Class Bard should account for something here :))
Elf & Int (Stereotypical Elven Wizard...)
Lesser Aasimar & Wis (Some kind of a Lesser Centaur could also work here)

Jack Zander
2009-08-31, 01:28 PM
Kobolds for Int, Gnomes for Cha.

Amiria
2009-08-31, 01:28 PM
Tiefling (or other planetouched races) seems ok for charisma. My group has houseruled Tiefling ability modifiers to +2 Dex and +2 Cha (we also made Aasimar and Tieflings templates (mainly for humans only but there are rare exceptions)).

Some kind of "Feytouched" is also good, maybe a modified Killoren (RotW) ?

truemane
2009-08-31, 01:29 PM
I would either retool it so the Elf gets the Charisma bonus and have an Eladrin for the Wisdom (if maybe High Elf ort Grey elf or somesuch) to account for the lofty-wise-Elrond elves and the dancy-happy Hobbit elves.

Or go with Aasimar. If it's your own world, I wouldn't even call them Lesser Assimars. Just have them be beautiful and leadership-y types.

TheThan
2009-08-31, 03:32 PM
In the campaign world I’m creating to go along with the system, gnomes are highly talented with magic. So much so that are known as the premier magic users in the world. Kings spend a lot of money to employ a gnome over any other magic user.

In the distant past the gnomes built a mighty city just for them. It was supposed to be the crowning achievement of their race. Unfortunately during its construction they weave too much magic. The city collapsed in a great catastrophe. The gnomes “burnt out” the world’s supply of magic. This lead to a lengthy “Dark Age” where magic was no more.

That was a long time ago. Now, the magical nature of the world (not quite sure what to name it yet) has begun to re-energized and magic is once available. The Gnomes however learned their lesson about magic. They have vowed as a race to never draw too deeply on magic. Parents teach their children to treat it with as much respect and caution as possible.

Doc Roc
2009-08-31, 03:51 PM
I would either retool it so the Elf gets the Charisma bonus and have an Eladrin for the Wisdom (if maybe High Elf ort Grey elf or somesuch) to account for the lofty-wise-Elrond elves and the dancy-happy Hobbit elves.

Eladrin is a reserved word in d20 namespace.

Morty
2009-08-31, 03:54 PM
Half-elves, perhaps? They're a little more mundane than feytouched or tieflings.

Herbstfarben
2009-08-31, 03:54 PM
So gnomes get a int bonus but won't be wizards? That doesn't sound right.

What aboutt a race of evil clowns for the charisma bonus?

Myshlaevsky
2009-08-31, 04:03 PM
I'll second (third?) planetouched, but instead of making it Tiefling or Aasimar just make a general term. You could give the race a bit of customisable crunch so players can determine their own heritage.

DragoonWraith
2009-08-31, 04:43 PM
Kobolds could also take Cha, if you wanted. The whole sorcerous aspect of them makes that make sense.

TheThan
2009-08-31, 04:58 PM
So gnomes get a int bonus but won't be wizards? That doesn't sound right.

What aboutt a race of evil clowns for the charisma bonus?

Actually they are wizards, very powerful wizards. They just aren’t the zany explodey wow style gnomes.



I'll second (third?) planetouched, but instead of making it Tiefling or Aasimar just make a general term. You could give the race a bit of customisable crunch to players can determine their own heritage.

This is a distinct possibility. Its one I'll have to give greater though to.

Bayar
2009-08-31, 05:01 PM
You cant go wrong with kobolds. And unless those are tinker gnomes...I hate them already :tongue: [/joke]

deuxhero
2009-08-31, 05:07 PM
g.kill your other 5 races and use something original.


Anyways, prehaps a race that looks ugly, but gets a charisma boost, to drive home the fact that it isn't based on good looks.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-08-31, 05:22 PM
Being original does not mean you are useful. (http://ninjamonkeys.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/unique.jpg)

So a kobold, then, for the ugly factor. Three small races (kobold, gnome, halfling), one semi-small race (dwarf), and three medium races (orc, human, elf). Neat little symmetry, although if you have too many small races running around I'd think about houseruling (in part or in whole) size modifiers to Hide checks.

erikun
2009-08-31, 05:23 PM
Anyways, prehaps a race that looks ugly, but gets a charisma boost, to drive home the fact that it isn't based on good looks.
Hobgoblins, then? :smalltongue:

A bit more seriously, lesser planetouched makes a lot of sense for the +2 Cha race. The desendants of outerworldly, spiritual creatures being naturally good at inate magic and divine pursuits? Makes sense.

Myshlaevsky
2009-08-31, 05:27 PM
Hobgoblins, then? :smalltongue:

A bit more seriously, lesser planetouched makes a lot of sense for the +2 Cha race. The desendants of outerworldly, spiritual creatures being naturally good at inate magic and divine pursuits? Makes sense.

Hobgoblins makes quite a lot of sense as well, mind.

Strong, natural leaders who are capable at magic as well as battlefield command.

Kobold-Bard
2009-08-31, 05:50 PM
Half-elves, perhaps? They're a little more mundane than feytouched or tieflings.

Seconded. After all they get those nice social skill bonuses normally.

TheThan
2009-08-31, 06:24 PM
While I appreciate the advice on the kobolds, I already have one “monster race” and I didn’t really want to include another one.

I actually really like the idea of the generic plane touched race I think I might go with that idea. +2 charisma plus some other otherworldly abilities.

The Dark Fiddler
2009-08-31, 06:47 PM
I'd second picking either Kobold or Planetouched.

As a side note, I'd also suggest making Half-Elf and Half-Orc templates if you're keeping them, instead of races. Makes much more sense that way.

Elfin
2009-08-31, 07:00 PM
I agree with Planetouched.

Drider
2009-08-31, 07:13 PM
Cat-people with a stupifying aura of cute they can't ever turn off.

Hat-Trick
2009-08-31, 07:33 PM
Cat-people with a stupifying aura of cute they can't ever turn off.

Susceptible to conversations about hard data. When any conversation in hearing has to deal heavily in anything requiring Profession: Any roles, the cat people take 30d6 per rank in Profession of the conversationalists.

Starbuck_II
2009-08-31, 07:34 PM
Dromite as a core race! They get Cha bonus.

Dixieboy
2009-08-31, 07:49 PM
Planetouched is also pretty easy to fluff in when you have a giant explosion of magic in your history somewhere.

Lord Loss
2009-08-31, 07:56 PM
Catfolk, toned down as to not have an LA

That's what I'd do...

Mushroom Ninja
2009-08-31, 07:57 PM
I like the idea of having plane-touched as a CHA race and letting the Pcs choose their planar heritage.


Susceptible to conversations about hard data. When any conversation in hearing has to deal heavily in anything requiring Profession: Any roles, the cat people take 30d6 per rank in Profession of the conversationalists.

A successful Knowledge (Physics) check deals 1.23*10^4 damage a nearby catfolk.

Gnorman
2009-08-31, 08:03 PM
Planetouched is also pretty easy to fluff in when you have a giant explosion of magic in your history somewhere.

Maybe it's not even Planetouched so much as Magictouched - somewhere along their ancestry, their predecessors were affected the mystical cataclysm so much that their very genetics/history/whatever was infused with the essence of pure magic - and that this ancestry lay dormant for a long time since magic was effectively "dead". Now that it's back, these magic-touched bloodlines are reappearing. You could have all of them give a flat +2 to CHA, but each character could be infused by a certain kind of magic giving a certain minor bonus a la planar ancestry. Maybe illusion-descended characters could get concealment in certain situations a time or two a day, or bonuses to Hide. Maybe a necromantic-touched character would gain bonuses to social skills when dealing with intelligent undead.

Jack Zander
2009-08-31, 08:40 PM
While I appreciate the advice on the kobolds, I already have one “monster race” and I didn’t really want to include another one.

They don't have to be "monsters" just because they have scaly skin.

Karma Guard
2009-08-31, 09:33 PM
Maybe it's not even Planetouched so much as Magictouched - somewhere along their ancestry, their predecessors were affected the mystical cataclysm so much that their very genetics/history/whatever was infused with the essence of pure magic - and that this ancestry lay dormant for a long time since magic was effectively "dead". Now that it's back, these magic-touched bloodlines are reappearing. You could have all of them give a flat +2 to CHA, but each character could be infused by a certain kind of magic giving a certain minor bonus a la planar ancestry. Maybe illusion-descended characters could get concealment in certain situations a time or two a day, or bonuses to Hide. Maybe a necromantic-touched character would gain bonuses to social skills when dealing with intelligent undead.

This is a clever idea.

ShadowsGrnEyes
2009-08-31, 09:48 PM
I'm voting somthing Scaley. You could go kobold or spellscale or dragonborn but I strongly vote for something along those lines. Dragons are your classic origin for sorcery based things and charisma is the sorcery stat.

TheThan
2009-08-31, 10:22 PM
By “monster race” I mean a race that is traditionally and typically used as monsters for pcs to fight. Like orcs, goblins kobolds etc. Actually I really like the magic-touched idea a lot more than the plane-touched race. Here’s what I have thus far:



Magic touched
Average height : 5’0-6’0
Average weight : 120-220 lbs.
Ability scores : +2 charisma
Size : medium
Speed : 6 squares
Vision : normal
Language : common plus infernal, celestial or draconic
Skill bonus : +2 magic
Racial weapon proficiency : ray spells and touch spells
Magic Resistant : magic touched gain a +2 bonus to all saving throws made to resist magic and spell like abilities.
Magic heritage : As part of their magical nature they gain one of the following abilities based upon which school of magic their heritage is based upon:
Abjuration:
Conjuration:
Divination:
Enchantment:
Evocation:
Illusion:
Necromancy:
Transmutation:

Notes:

Skills: I combined use magic device, concentration and spellcraft into one skill, magic. I also did the same thing with a lot of other skills and reworked the way skills are done. Now they scale with level instead of you throwing points into them. Think starwars saga and 4E.

Racial weapon proficiencies: Most races have racial weapon proficiencies. This ability, in addition to providing the training in wielding each weapon, also provides a +1 bonus to the weapons in the heading. This indicates a natural inclination and ability with said weapons.


Now that we’ve got the basics of the class worked out, we need to come up with cool, useful and interesting (but not too powerful) abilities for the magical heritage heading. For Illusion I’m thinking a 10% miss chance every time they are struck by a mundane attack, I’m also thinking of giving divination something similar to arcane sight, but I’m not terribly sure. What do you guys think? got any other ideas?

Moff Chumley
2009-08-31, 10:36 PM
+2 Skill bonuses spring to mind...

Kinda the easy way out, though.

Myshlaevsky
2009-08-31, 10:41 PM
Ability to cast X level spell of that school 1/day, with 1 starting at 1 and increasing every 3, 4, 5 or 6 levels?

Limited SR vs. that school and that school only?

Jack Zander
2009-08-31, 10:43 PM
My suggestions

Abjuration: +1 to all saves
Conjuration: +1 Armor bonus to AC (as mage armor)
Divination: +2 Spot and Listen
Enchantment: +2 Bluff and Diplomacy
Evocation: +1 Force Damage with Unarmed Strikes
Illusion: +2 Disguise and Hide
Necromancy: +1 HP healed when healed by spells
Transmutation: +3 HP

Moff Chumley
2009-08-31, 10:45 PM
That looks good except for evocation. Far too specific.

Jack Zander
2009-08-31, 10:45 PM
I wanted to give it a bonus to damage, but a general +1 to everything seemed too powerful.

TheThan
2009-08-31, 10:49 PM
It’s hardly game breaking, but I think I got it figured out.

We can give it a +1 bonus to all non-magic attacks, so spells don’t get the buff, since they get it from the racial weapon proficiency.

Gnomo
2009-08-31, 11:01 PM
I think you're missing a lot of good races that should go into your average fantasy setting:

Antropomorphic creature: Minotaurs, Centaurs, Werewolves, Harpies, Catfolks, Bear warriors, etc. All should have similar rules for easy playing and should be core, basic material. Half Dragons are also very popular, but you should think of having special rules for Dragonoids.

Kobold or Dragonkin/Dragonborn/Dragonfolk: Something to do with dragons is always cool, you can go ask the Sorcerers. Besides there's something about the scalies, they always get respect (except maybe some kobolds).

Fairy: Your regular fey should be core and a standard race, do not fear to make a tiny flying creature available to players, does not break the game at all (have tested it already), and it doesn't need a LA bigger than +2, maybe you can pull of a +1 LA tiny flying creature, as I said, is no biggie.

Giant: A big humanoid, that's it. This is kind of a lame concept because is so simple, but it's all over classic fantasy, there's practically no fantasy world without giants, go check Middle Earth, Narnia, Memory Sorrow and Thorn, Oscar Wilde's stuff, etc... even nowadays popular manga like One Piece has them.

Elemental Creature: You can create small creatures that are profoundly related to an element. You can do Gnomes to be related to earth, Sylphs to wind, Undines to water and Salamanders to fire. You can even play further with this idea and say that Undines and Salamanders (Water and Fire) hate each other and Gnomes and Sylphs (Earth and Wind) do not mesh well at all. Or you can go with the regular D&D MM1 elemental and create a human-like creature made out completely off the element. Element based stuff always works, go ask Paracelsus.

Living Construct: Being a cyborg is always appealing, is not much of a common place in regular fantasy but since Warforgeds came out is kinda nice to offer this to players, besides

Angels and Demons: This one is for the girls, they love to play beatiful winged blood tainted creatures. Besides this lets the player to create a very flashy and melodramatic background story about how they escaped from their celestial/infernal realm to the human's world because of love/revenge/guilt/insert-your-regular-angst/emo-feeling-here.

Gnorman
2009-09-01, 12:29 AM
I think you're missing a lot of good races that should go into your average fantasy setting:

Antropomorphic creature: Minotaurs, Centaurs, Werewolves, Harpies, Catfolks, Bear warriors, etc. All should have similar rules for easy playing and should be core, basic material. Half Dragons are also very popular, but you should think of having special rules for Dragonoids.

Kobold or Dragonkin/Dragonborn/Dragonfolk: Something to do with dragons is always cool, you can go ask the Sorcerers. Besides there's something about the scalies, they always get respect (except maybe some kobolds).

Fairy: Your regular fey should be core and a standard race, do not fear to make a tiny flying creature available to players, does not break the game at all (have tested it already), and it doesn't need a LA bigger than +2, maybe you can pull of a +1 LA tiny flying creature, as I said, is no biggie.

Giant: A big humanoid, that's it. This is kind of a lame concept because is so simple, but it's all over classic fantasy, there's practically no fantasy world without giants, go check Middle Earth, Narnia, Memory Sorrow and Thorn, Oscar Wilde's stuff, etc... even nowadays popular manga like One Piece has them.

Elemental Creature: You can create small creatures that are profoundly related to an element. You can do Gnomes to be related to earth, Sylphs to wind, Undines to water and Salamanders to fire. You can even play further with this idea and say that Undines and Salamanders (Water and Fire) hate each other and Gnomes and Sylphs (Earth and Wind) do not mesh well at all. Or you can go with the regular D&D MM1 elemental and create a human-like creature made out completely off the element. Element based stuff always works, go ask Paracelsus.

Living Construct: Being a cyborg is always appealing, is not much of a common place in regular fantasy but since Warforgeds came out is kinda nice to offer this to players, besides

Angels and Demons: This one is for the girls, they love to play beatiful winged blood tainted creatures. Besides this lets the player to create a very flashy and melodramatic background story about how they escaped from their celestial/infernal realm to the human's world because of love/revenge/guilt/insert-your-regular-angst/emo-feeling-here.

He's not saying that they won't be in the setting, just that they're not going to be part of the core seven races. Much like they aren't in regular D&D.

TheThan
2009-09-01, 02:11 PM
I think you're missing a lot of good races that should go into your average fantasy setting:

Antropomorphic creature: Minotaurs, Centaurs, Werewolves, Harpies, Catfolks, Bear warriors, etc. All should have similar rules for easy playing and should be core, basic material. Half Dragons are also very popular, but you should think of having special rules for Dragonoids.

Kobold or Dragonkin/Dragonborn/Dragonfolk: Something to do with dragons is always cool, you can go ask the Sorcerers. Besides there's something about the scalies, they always get respect (except maybe some kobolds).

Fairy: Your regular fey should be core and a standard race, do not fear to make a tiny flying creature available to players, does not break the game at all (have tested it already), and it doesn't need a LA bigger than +2, maybe you can pull of a +1 LA tiny flying creature, as I said, is no biggie.

Giant: A big humanoid, that's it. This is kind of a lame concept because is so simple, but it's all over classic fantasy, there's practically no fantasy world without giants, go check Middle Earth, Narnia, Memory Sorrow and Thorn, Oscar Wilde's stuff, etc... even nowadays popular manga like One Piece has them.

Elemental Creature: You can create small creatures that are profoundly related to an element. You can do Gnomes to be related to earth, Sylphs to wind, Undines to water and Salamanders to fire. You can even play further with this idea and say that Undines and Salamanders (Water and Fire) hate each other and Gnomes and Sylphs (Earth and Wind) do not mesh well at all. Or you can go with the regular D&D MM1 elemental and create a human-like creature made out completely off the element. Element based stuff always works, go ask Paracelsus.

Living Construct: Being a cyborg is always appealing, is not much of a common place in regular fantasy but since Warforgeds came out is kinda nice to offer this to players, besides

Angels and Demons: This one is for the girls, they love to play beatiful winged blood tainted creatures. Besides this lets the player to create a very flashy and melodramatic background story about how they escaped from their celestial/infernal realm to the human's world because of love/revenge/guilt/insert-your-regular-angst/emo-feeling-here.


There’s a good chance I’ll bring a lot of those in as playable races. But for right now, I’m sticking with just 7 races and four classes. Once I have those ironed out I’ll start including other material.

Nero24200
2009-09-01, 02:39 PM
I'm always a big fan of weirder races (such as spellscales, killoren etc) rather than core, so any surgestions I might give might not necciserily fit for a core race.

Though what about somthing like a spirit/toned-down ghostly race?

Another_Poet
2009-09-01, 08:49 PM
Half-elves, perhaps?

I like this. It would be cool to portray half-elves as charismatic go-betweens who make good use of both their elven good looks and their human wiles. The perfect bard race, traveling from place to place with no real home of their own...

It'd be great to see a half-elf that really stood up as a good choice at char gen.

ap

Jack Zander
2009-09-01, 08:54 PM
I like this. It would be cool to portray half-elves as charismatic go-betweens who make good use of both their elven good looks and their human wiles. The perfect bard race, traveling from place to place with no real home of their own...

It'd be great to see a half-elf that really stood up as a good choice at char gen.

ap

But at the same time, it makes absolutely no sense. Half-Elves, created from the blood of a human and an elf (two species that have no bonuses to charisma) now has a bonus to charisma?