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Eloel
2009-09-01, 04:57 AM
I'll be playing in a L9 Gestalt (arena) game, and I've been thinking of using the mailman (direct damage sorcerer) concept. What classes are there to gestalt with that would increase efficiency? Best I got so far is full-BAB, I can't think of a good way to boost the mailman in gestalt. (also, only 0LA races and 0LA templates)

Boci
2009-09-01, 05:11 AM
I'll be playing in a L9 Gestalt (arena) game, and I've been thinking of using the mailman (direct damage sorcerer) concept. What classes are there to gestalt with that would increase efficiency? Best I got so far is full-BAB, I can't think of a good way to boost the mailman in gestalt. (also, only 0LA races and 0LA templates)

You could go wizard so that you have utility and buff spells. To the best of my knowledge the mail man uses ray spells aso full BAB would help, maybe a duskblade, but I don't think you will have much touch spells. How about going rogue/spellwarp sniper? Ofcourse, the last one depends exactly how you use gestalt.

Eloel
2009-09-01, 05:20 AM
Rogue 9//Sorcerer 5/Spellwarp Sniper 4 WOULD work, but that'd make me try using sneak tactics, which gets hard after a while. I'm thinking on a monk//sorcerer, for extra goodies on delivering melee touch attacks & tumble.

Boci
2009-09-01, 05:28 AM
Rogue 9//Sorcerer 5/Spellwarp Sniper 4 WOULD work, but that'd make me try using sneak tactics, which gets hard after a while. I'm thinking on a monk//sorcerer, for extra goodies on delivering melee touch attacks & tumble.

I was thinking the other way around. Rogue 5 / Spellwarp sniper 4 // Soeceror 9. I recomend duskblade over monk however, but I thought the mail man used ray spells.

Eloel
2009-09-01, 05:33 AM
Mailman uses ray spells, but the idea of monk casting touch spells was too good to pass.

Also, since Spellwarp Sniper adds caster levels, why would you waste levels on Sorcerer?

Boci
2009-09-01, 05:38 AM
Mailman uses ray spells, but the idea of monk casting touch spells was too good to pass.

If you're dead set on monk over duskblade, you should aim for the enlightened fist PrC.


Also, since Spellwarp Sniper adds caster levels, why would you waste levels on Sorcerer?

As I said, it depends on the gestalt rules.

Eloel
2009-09-01, 05:53 AM
If you're dead set on monk over duskblade, you should aim for the enlightened fist PrC.
Duskblade casts on Int. Maybe you meant Hexblade? (I'm looking into Hexblade right now...)

Boci
2009-09-01, 05:56 AM
Duskblade casts on Int. Maybe you meant Hexblade? (I'm looking into Hexblade right now...)

No, hexblade is underpowered unless you use an online fix. You don't want duskblade for its own casting, you want it for full BAB and arcane chennel (remeber you can channel any spell, not just the duskblade ones). I base inteligence of 13 should be more than enough. You can boost it with items latter.

Eloel
2009-09-01, 07:22 AM
Anything that gives an active boost to metamagicking capabilities or the # of spell slots of sorcerer?

kestrel404
2009-09-01, 07:25 AM
If you are allowed more than 1 prestige class at a time (prestige classes on both sides of advancement), I would suggest:

Sorceror 6/Spellwarp Sniper 3//Rogue 5/Invisible Blade 4

Rogue an Spellwarp sniper advance sneak attack. Invisible Blade allows you to Feint as a free action as long as you're wielding a knife of some kind. You only need 1 hand free for casting, so you can feint with a dagger and then cast. Bonus, all of your rays will be against a flat-footed touch attack AC (meaning only deflection AC applies).

Feats needed: Point blank shot (for both spellwarp and invisible blade), Far shot, weapon focus.
Also needed: Various skills at 8, 3rd level spellcasting.

Boci
2009-09-01, 07:30 AM
Anything that gives an active boost to metamagicking capabilities or

Arcane thesis and trading your familiar for rapid metamagic. Occular spell and split ray are also great, but you will need reach spell if you want to use them with touch range spells.


the # of spell slots of sorcerer?

Just a high charisma. Although you could always buy scrolls or other magical items.

Eloel
2009-09-01, 07:31 AM
That's a great idea in there. I can't get both Spellwarp Sniper & Invisible Blade, but there are enough Orb spells to make it viable. A single level dip into Daggerspell Caster might be in effect too. Hmm...

Eloel
2009-09-01, 07:32 AM
Arcane thesis and trading your familiar for rapid metamagic.



Just a high charisma. Although you could always buy scrolls.

Obviously. I don't see how I get either of them from the 2nd side of gestalt though...

Boci
2009-09-01, 07:36 AM
Obviously. I don't see how I get either of them from the 2nd side of gestalt though...

You should have enough spells per day, unless your DM regularly has 5+ encounters.
Would you be allowed to use easy metamagic a lot?

Eloel
2009-09-01, 07:42 AM
I'll have 3 encounters/day. This is a PvP arena though...

Easy Metamagic? Isn't that a dragon magazine thingy?

AmberVael
2009-09-01, 08:05 AM
I'm not entirely sure this works, but I'll put it out here anyways.

Sorcerer//Half-Dragon Paragon

While Gestalt typically takes the better of any two progressions or abilities, Half-Dragon provides a singular ability which technically stands on its own- Sorcerous Blood.

I quote:


Sorcerous Blood (Ex)

A character's half-dragon paragon levels stack with sorcerer levels for purposes of determining the caster level of arcane spells granted through sorcerer levels. For example, a 2nd-level sorcerer/3rd-level half-dragon paragon's caster level is 5th for the spells she can cast as a sorcerer. This increased caster level affects only spells that the character can cast; it does not give her access to higher-level spells or more spells per day.

Now, this is a cheesy trick, so if you don't want to be cheesy and would try and stay away from such things, don't do it- but technically this would mean you could go Sorcerer // Half-Dragon Paragon and gain three caster levels above your level. Not more spells, but caster levels (which is really good for a blaster though).

Eloel
2009-09-01, 08:09 AM
What part was not clear on '0LA'? None? Thought so.

Would a Daggerspell Caster/Bloodstorm Blade cast touch-range spells at throw-range?

AmberVael
2009-09-01, 08:13 AM
Oops. Missed that part. My bad. :smallredface:

Also, I do believe Thunderous Throw would make that work, yes. Sounds like a rather complicated class mix though.

Boci
2009-09-01, 08:21 AM
I'll have 3 encounters/day. This is a PvP arena though...

Easy Metamagic? Isn't that a dragon magazine thingy?

I have no idea. I found it on crystalkeep.com. If you take split ray and reacjh spell along with arcane thesis and a couple of easy metamagic, you should be able to lauch a pretty good offensive. Occular spell is only useful if you can have prep time beofre the match.


What part was not clear on '0LA'? None? Thought so.

I thought the paragon progression replaced the half dragon's LA.


Would a Daggerspell Caster/Bloodstorm Blade cast touch-range spells at throw-range?

Yes. To meet the Blooodstorm Blade's requiresments you should probably go Diskblade 3 / Fighter 1 / Warblade 1.

Eloel
2009-09-01, 08:24 AM
Arcane Thesis & Practical Metamagic stack would make Empower a free metamagic, and Maximize at only +1 level. Anything else at around those levels that is worth (ab)using?

Edit:
Hmm;
Arcane Thesis, Empower Spell, Practical Empower, Twin Spell, Practical Twin, Spell Focus, Metamagic School Focus, Metamagic Rod of Maximize

Am I mistaken, or is that Wings of Flurry at 120+10d6? For only 1 level increase? 3/day too.

Boci
2009-09-01, 08:27 AM
Arcane Thesis & Practical Metamagic stack would make Empower a free metamagic, and Maximize at only +1 level. Anything else at around those levels that is worth (ab)using?

Plit ray: +2 levels
Reach spell: +2 levels
Occular spell (If youi have time to prepare) +2 levels

But you need to choose your arcane thesis spell very carefully.

AmberVael
2009-09-01, 08:29 AM
Arcane Thesis & Practical Metamagic stack would make Empower a free metamagic, and Maximize at only +1 level. Anything else at around those levels that is worth (ab)using?

If you have any particular element you plan on using, there are likely an array of feats that would be useful for it.

If the arena has no LA, then I suspect no one will be counting as undead, unless they went necropolitan or something. As such, Enervate Spell from Libris Mortis might be good (it is essentially Empower against living creatures).

Eloel
2009-09-01, 08:38 AM
How would Enervate stack with Empower? I think we might have a gem here. (Heck, I could spend a feat on Energize Spell, it's negated completely by Arcane Thesis, for if anyone actually finds a way to undeadify themselves.)

AmberVael
2009-09-01, 08:41 AM
How would Enervate stack with Empower? I think we might have a gem here.

I've never been entirely sure. However, I always assumed it worked like Empower and Maximize, and that it affected the base spell damage separately from other metamagic effects (just because that seemed most fair- not necessarily because of RAW.)

Still, your mileage may vary. I'd say ask the DM or other appropriate person in charge.

Boci
2009-09-01, 08:51 AM
Arcane Thesis (enervate) with split ray and maximize would deal 8 negative energy level and cost 3 feats to cast it as a 7th level spell. I'm sure you could get it lower with feats. However, some DM's ban matamagic use of enervate because they feel its cheesy. An empowered enervate would deal 1d4+1d2 negative energy levels.

Eloel
2009-09-01, 08:53 AM
I'll assume an Enervate Empower spell would basically be double of the normal. After all, 1.5 x 1.5 = 2 under d&d rules. If I get Maximize on top of that (say, 3d6 Shivering Touch), that should be 18+3d6 Dex damage. Energy Substitution would take care of any subtype related immunities. That should be enough to munch through pretty much everything, for 6 feats. Heighten Spell to get around the occasional Lesser GoI, and it's golden. That requires me to be Human though, with 2 flaws, to get 7 feats at L9.

Books needed;
CArc, Frostburn, Races of Dragon, Libris Mortis, SC is good to have. Seems doable. Hexblade 3/Monk 6 nets me Evasion, Mettle, Cha to Saves, Cha to AC (with 1 feat...)

Thanks for the help guys :)


An empowered enervate would deal 1d4+1d2 negative energy levels.
1d4 + 1d4/2 actually. One averages to 4, the other averages to 3.75

AmberVael
2009-09-01, 08:56 AM
Oh, I do want to mention in case you haven't thought of it already- a good Sorcerer Blaster can really, really use Arcane Fusion and Greater Arcane Fusion (spells from Complete Mage).

Eloel
2009-09-01, 09:04 AM
How would a Fell Drain Magic Missile work out? 5 negative levels? 1 negative level?

Boci
2009-09-01, 09:34 AM
How would a Fell Drain Magic Missile work out? 5 negative levels? 1 negative level?

1 per damaged target. 5 against a single target is overpowered.


I'll assume an Enervate Empower spell would basically be double of the normal. After all, 1.5 x 1.5 = 2 under d&d rules. If I get Maximize on top of that (say, 3d6 Shivering Touch), that should be 18+3d6 Dex damage. Energy Substitution would take care of any subtype related immunities. That should be enough to munch through pretty much everything, for 6 feats. Heighten Spell to get around the occasional Lesser GoI, and it's golden. That requires me to be Human though, with 2 flaws, to get 7 feats at L9.


You know your DM better than me, but I wouldn't make a build bassed around a spell that many consider broken and either outright ban or nerf.


1d4 + 1d4/2 actually. One averages to 4, the other averages to 3.75

Oh yeah.