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View Full Version : Would this be balanced?



Kris Strife
2009-09-01, 11:03 AM
So... Dragon disciple. Interesting idea, but the crunch doesn't work with the fluff, and it sucks like an industrial sized vacuum.

I've been toying with the idea of making it work better, at least for Dragon Flame Adepts. The Con and Cha boosts are great for that class, Int is always good for any class, and the Str boost can help you haul around that full plate once you've done your invocations. Natural armor doesn't hurt and having wings already would free up at least one invocation.

Aside from either allowing Invocations to allow entry or using caster level, which DFA's get, I'd allow the natural armor bonuses to stack properly (if they don't already. DFA says uses the better of the two, while half dragon template says it stacks with any existing), and have DD levels contribute to breath weapon damage. Rather than gaining single spells known, have that be add to either invocations or breath effects (either player choice or by balance).

Comments, questions, suggestions?

woodenbandman
2009-09-01, 11:12 AM
Give it a slightly delayed progression to make up for the D12 hit dice, or reduce said hit dice, as well as the BAB. Other than that, seems fair.

Kris Strife
2009-09-01, 11:19 AM
Keep the DFA's BAB or what ever comes between them, and drop it down to a d10 or d8 (which DFA already has) hit die?

Boci
2009-09-01, 11:26 AM
Keep the DFA's BAB or what ever comes between them, and drop it down to a d10 or d8 (which DFA already has) hit die?

d10. Would you allow them to take better (lesser and greater) invocations latter on?

Draz74
2009-09-01, 11:47 AM
If all we do is change each bonus spell into "counts as a DFA level for the purposes of Invocations and Breath effects," and change each breath weapon damage increase as a +1d6 to the DFA's existing breath weapon, then ... comparing a pure DFA to a DFA/DD ...

Pure DFA 20
- Caster Level 20; Invocations up to a 2nd Dark Invocation
- 6 Breath Effects
- Breath Weapon 9d6
- Natural Armor +5
- BAB +10
- 20 more skill points, arguably from a better skill list (e.g. UMD)

DFA 10 / DD 10
- Caster Level 17; Invocations up to one Dark Invocation
- 5 Breath Effects
- Breath Weapon 8d6
- Natural Armor +7
- BAB +12
- 20 more Hit Points
- better saves (in the same sense as any character who multiclasses or takes a PrC)
- Natural Weapons :smalltongue:
- STR +8, CON +2, INT +2, CHA +2
- Wings, one energy immunity, minor other benefits (Darkvision ...)


Overall, I'd say that makes the Dragon Disciple PrC far too attractive to a Dragonfire Adept.

On the other hand, if you make the "Bonus Spells" progress Invocations, but not Breath Effects, I could see that. Breath Effects are really the meat and potatoes of a Dragonfire Adept, and giving them up might really be worthy of gaining a big array of various abilities.

Boci
2009-09-01, 11:49 AM
If all we do is change each bonus spell into "counts as a DFA level for the purposes of Invocations and Breath effects," and change each breath weapon damage increase as a +1d6 to the DFA's existing breath weapon, then ... comparing a pure DFA to a DFA/DD ...

Pure DFA 20
- Caster Level 20; Invocations up to a 2nd Dark Invocation
- 6 Breath Effects
- Breath Weapon 9d6
- Natural Armor +5
- BAB +10
- 20 more skill points, arguably from a better skill list (e.g. UMD)

DFA 10 / DD 10
- Caster Level 17; Invocations up to one Dark Invocation
- 5 Breath Effects
- Breath Weapon 8d6
- Natural Armor +7
- BAB +12
- 20 more Hit Points
- better saves (in the same sense as any character who multiclasses or takes a PrC)
- Natural Weapons :smalltongue:
- STR +8, CON +2, INT +2, CHA +2
- Wings, one energy immunity, minor other benefits (Darkvision ...)


Overall, I'd say that makes the Dragon Disciple PrC far too attractive to a Dragonfire Adept.

On the other hand, if you make the "Bonus Spells" progress Invocations, but not Breath Effects, I could see that. Breath Effects are really the meat and potatoes of a Dragonfire Adept, and giving them up might really be worthy of gaining a big array of various abilities.

Or maybe remove the half-dragon template capstone?

Kris Strife
2009-09-01, 11:55 AM
Or maybe remove the half-dragon template capstone?

Theres really not a difference between the two at that point, other than still counting as a humanoid... <.<

At each spell known level, gain one invocation with DD levels adding 1/2 value for determining highest level know, gain a breath effect at the 0 levels, DD levels again adding 1/2 value?

Kris Strife
2009-09-03, 06:55 AM
Hello? any more comments?