PDA

View Full Version : NPC Class + Bard?



Tyger
2009-09-01, 07:08 PM
Our DM has decided that we'll be starting as ECL 3 characters, one level in an NPC class, and two PC class levels. I have, thanks to Mr. Mark Hall and his sheer awesomeness, decided that I will be starting out as a bard.

Note, the NPC class will not count toward maximum class levels, effect XP earned, or in any way impact upon gaining levels or multi-classing. Its a pure freebie.

So... NPC classes...

Expert, cheesily picking skills could give me every single skill as a class skill, plus taking Able Learner as one of my two first level feats (human, don'tcha know) would mean unlimited skillfullness.

Adept would add a bit more flexibility to my casting, though only a single level 1 spell per day, and 3 cantrips...

Warrior for all martial weapon prof, a bonus of +2 to Fort, which could use it....

Aristocrat would give martial weapons and a few handy skills...

Commoner... let's just leave that one behind.

Normally, I would pick the one that makes the most sense from an RP perspective, but this character's background is eluding me for the moment. So I am thinking I'll work the NPC class out first, and then see where that takes my creative juices for the background.

Frosty
2009-09-01, 07:12 PM
Do you have any particular prestige class that requires a higher fort save in the future? IF you want to go Ur Priest in the future, bu all means take the Warrior as your NPC level.

quick_comment
2009-09-01, 07:14 PM
I would go with expert and able learner. Adept does nothing that bard casting wont do for you, and you dont really need the warriors extra few hp and weapon profs.

deuxhero
2009-09-01, 07:16 PM
How do skill points work? Is your first player class level *4 or is your first NPC class level?

avr
2009-09-01, 07:21 PM
If you're playing a bard, wisdom is your natural dump stat, so I'd count adept out (unless you're rolling stats and got nothing lower than a 12).

If your starting money is standard first level and the campaign doesn't look to be lasting long, aristocrat has its temptations. But really, expert is the best fit. Call him a sneak thief or gangster who always wanted to be a great bard (to excuse all the skills you want to pick up from the expert class) and you're done.

One other option if you want early magic and want to dump wisdom - if you have the Eberron Campaign Setting available, the Magewright is an NPC class in it somewhere. Their casting is intelligence based.

Tyger
2009-09-01, 07:30 PM
How do skill points work? Is your first player class level *4 or is your first NPC class level?

Now that is a damned fine question... I'll have to look into that.

Should also note that we are using a fair number of the UA variant rules, including the Spell Point system, the Action Point system and the Armor as DR system as well.

deuxhero
2009-09-01, 10:31 PM
I'm sure someone knows how to exploit adept for pre-requisites purposes.

ericgrau
2009-09-01, 10:52 PM
Adept also gives scroll and wand access even to the adept spells you can't cast at level 1. See rules for more info. The class also has a nice mix of divine and normally arcane spells. As does bard, but they count as arcane. Now you can access both divine and arcane wands/scrolls of many spells. And really you only need an 11 or so wis for this.

Warrior is also a free +1 BAB. Quite nice, though probably not so much for most bards.

Aristocrat also adds handle animal, forgery, intimidate, ride, spot and survival to your class skill list. Grab the track feat and BAM, your bard can now fill a ninth role in the party on top of the many other things he does.

deuxhero
2009-09-01, 11:08 PM
Warrior is also a free +1 BAB. Quite nice, though probably not so much for most bards.

And martial weapons.

Raging Gene Ray
2009-09-02, 12:29 AM
My DM did the exact same thing. I didn't know about Able Learner at the time, but I still picked Expert solely because I love my skill points.

Although I have frequently wished for more hit points and a higher Fort save...

About Martial Weapon Proficiencies...Bards already get the Longsword, Whip, Shortbow and a few other proficiencies. That's not too useful unless you need to qualify for some Prestige Class.

I'd stick with the plan of using Expert to be able to max whatever's not already a class skill for Bards (like Spot).

ericgrau
2009-09-02, 12:34 AM
Whoops, didn't notice that spot wasn't on the bard list. Well, it's on the aristocrat list too. As are the other skills mentioned, plus full weapon & armor proficiency. Aristocrat and warrior also both give 2 more HP than expert.

LibraryOgre
2009-09-02, 08:28 AM
Adept doesn't add much to you.

I'd say that Aristocrat would be good to add weapon and armor proficiencies while getting started on skills. Not really as great, given that the weapon and armor proficiencies aren't going to be terribly useful to you (the armor profs, especially).

I think your real choices are Warrior (+1 BAB, giving you earlier access to some feats) or Expert (letting you get all the class skills you may want).

Raging Gene Ray
2009-09-02, 01:51 PM
I guess what you should be asking is: is there a Rogue in the party? If not, definitely get expert so you can have Open Lock and Disable Device as class skills...oh wait, you'd still need to dip into either Rogue or Factotum to pick up Trapfinding.

Besides those two, everything not on the Bard list is included in the Aristocrat package...come to think of it, the higher hit die and armor proficiencies sweeten the deal. It looks like a nice trade off: sacrificing 2 skill points for 1 or 2 more HP and proficiencies with weapons and armor...

Now that I think about it, Aristocrat does seem like a great balance between Warrior and Expert.

Melamoto
2009-09-02, 02:10 PM
Commoner... let's just leave that one behind.

The good man Aquillion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80968) disagrees (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4348855&postcount=27).