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mregecko
2009-09-02, 09:32 AM
So, I'm pretty new to the inner workings of gestalt builds, and am wondering if this is a valid build....

Beguiler20 // Marshal1 / Paladin 2 / Bard 7 / Sublime Chord 2 / Abjurant Champion 1 / Shadowcraft Mage 5 / Archmage 2

My HOPE is that Shadowcraft Mage on one side of the progression allows me to use the "Shadow Illusion (Su)" on the other [Beguiler] side.

My current feat progression is (w/2 flaws):
Combat Casting
Skill Focus (Spellcraft, Diplomacy*)
Spell Focus (Illusion, Conjuration [Maybe Enchantment])
Heighten Spell
Silent Spell*
Still Spell*
Arcane Thesis (Silent Image)
Residual Magic
Earth Sense
Earth Spell

* notates a bonus feat.

It would be awesome if I could use Beguiler 20 to cast Shadow-magic with no SR on flat-footed opponents.

I'm also considering NOT going for Archmage and/or Abjurant Champion, and instead loading up on 2-3 extra Metamagic Feats. That would actually make Arcane Thesis worth it.

Any other thoughts on what could make this build more awesomey?

Thanks,
-- Gecko

Myrmex
2009-09-02, 01:40 PM
Abjurant Champion has full casting and full BAB, so is a no-go.

mregecko
2009-09-02, 01:44 PM
Abjurant Champion has full casting and full BAB, so is a no-go.

I'm confused by this statement... Do you mean that I should NOT lose it b/c it's really good (even though it's only one level and I spend a feat to grab it)?

Or is there some Gestalt rule that doesn't allow full BAB & full casting?

-- G

Wings of Peace
2009-09-02, 01:46 PM
If you want to improve your gestalt to ungodly levels you need a level of Tainted Sorcerer or Tainted Scholar (I prefer Tainted Sorcerer) in there and a level of Subverted Psion.

Olo Demonsbane
2009-09-02, 01:46 PM
You can use Archmage to load up on bonus feats. Each level you can get one, if thats what you desire.

Wings of Peace
2009-09-02, 01:48 PM
You can use Archmage to load up on bonus feats. Each level you can get one, if thats what you desire.

Where's that from? Or have I just never read the old Archmage in depth enough?

Ernir
2009-09-02, 01:50 PM
Or is there some Gestalt rule that doesn't allow full BAB & full casting?

-- G

This is it.
Prestige classes that are essentially class combinations-such as the arcane trickster, mystic theurge, and eldritch knight-should be prohibited if you’re using gestalt classes

If you ask me, treating full BAB as a class feature on par with a second full casting progression is sillyness of the highest order, but it is there. :smallsigh:


May I suggest another level of Archmage instead?

Keld Denar
2009-09-02, 01:51 PM
There is a gestalt rule that prevents "combination" classes. No Mystic Theurge (Wiz/Cleric), Arcane Trickster (Wiz/Rog) or Eldritch Knight (Wiz/Fighter). I guess you could say that AbjChamp is close enough to EK to count as (Wiz/Fighter). That said, its not hard to qualify for AbjChamp without actually taking any levels in martial classes...so thats kinda dumb.

Yea, build looks solid. As far as using Silent Images on your Beg side to power ScM stuff on your other side, I don't see any reason why not. Lots of people in gestalt do Duskblade//Wizard and channel wizard spells through the Duskblade's Arcane Channeling. This isn't much different. Spellcasting is Spellcasting is Spellcasting, in this case.

mregecko
2009-09-02, 01:58 PM
This is it.

If you ask me, treating full BAB as a class feature on par with a second full casting progression is sillyness of the highest order, but it is there. :smallsigh:


May I suggest another level of Archmage instead?

Awesome, thanks to you and Keld Denar for pointing this out. I knew the rule, but only thought it applied to dual-casting PrC's like Mystic Theurge. I see now it's any double-threat, although that is loosely defined for the Abjurant Champion.

It honestly doesn't hurt me all that much, and frees up Combat Casting for more metamagic (yay!).

And yeah, I haven't seen any ruling anywhere that says Archmage can give you bonus feats?

In the end, I might scrap all of the archmage levels and just take Incantatrix for 3 levels... But that seems a little cheesy even to me. Oh well, we'll see what the DM has to say :-)

-- G