Why didn't Vaarsuvius tell any of the Order about the planet?

[The Pale King]

Something's been kind of bothering me. Why didn't Vaarsuvius tell the rest of the order about what she saw. She/he doesn't seem to have any reason to keep it a secret. Why would she/he keep knowledge that could potentiallly be of great importance for their mission to her/himself

[Morty]

I think that V simply decided not to tell the rest about it before s/he knows more about the issue than what his familiar saw in the rift. They probably wouldn't belive it.

[Dark Faun]

Rule of Drama, I'd say.

[Silverraptor]

Rule of Drama, I'd say.

Off panel, I say.

[Thrax]

Imagine the reactions.
Roy: So what you were trying to say?
V: Look, my familiar...
Belkar: You have a familiar?
V: Yeah. Can't you see it on my shoulder?
Durkon: Nice crow.
V: It's a raven! And look, this raven...
Haley: Now you've got a familiar?
V: No, he's been there all the time but you just couldn't see it!
Roy: Aah, like an imaginary friend.
V: And look, this familiar was looking into the rift...
Elan: Your imaginary familiar, you mean?
V: It's not imaginary! It saw a planet in the rift!
Roy, to Haley, whispering: V's gone nuts. Call the ambulance.

[Silverraptor]

Imagine the reactions.
Roy: So what you were trying to say?
V: Look, my familiar...
Belkar: You have a familiar?
V: Yeah. Can't you see it on my shoulder?
Durkon: Nice crow.
V: It's a raven! And look, this raven...
Haley: Now you've got a familiar?
V: No, he's been there all the time but you just couldn't see it!
Roy: Aah, like an imaginary friend.
V: And look, this familiar was looking into the rift...
Elan: Your imaginary familiar, you mean?
V: It's not imaginary! It saw a planet in the rift!
Roy, to Haley, whispering: V's gone nuts. Call the ambulance.

Another good point.

[Elfin]

A good point indeed.

[Sholos]

Also, consider the fact that V is only just know coming to the realization that other people can play significant roles in saving the world (you know, besides meat shield and/or band-aid). He's not going to naturally think of consulting any of them, especially when it's highly unlikely that any of them have any ranks in Knowledge: The Planes.

[Blue Ghost]

Probably some leftover arrogance on V's part. Maybe she still doesn't like to admit that she doesn't know everything?
V hadn't mentioned it off-panel. If she had, the fiasco with her familiar would have happened earlier, and it is pretty obvious that this is the first time she has mentioned Blackwing.

[Malkar Grumbo]

Imagine the reactions.
Roy: So what you were trying to say?
V: Look, my familiar...
Belkar: You have a familiar?
V: Yeah. Can't you see it on my shoulder?
Durkon: Nice crow.
V: It's a raven! And look, this raven...
Haley: Now you've got a familiar?
V: No, he's been there all the time but you just couldn't see it!
Roy: Aah, like an imaginary friend.
V: And look, this familiar was looking into the rift...
Elan: Your imaginary familiar, you mean?
V: It's not imaginary! It saw a planet in the rift!
Roy, to Haley, whispering: V's gone nuts. Call the ambulance.

Totally agree, it seems that they have a little doubt about V's sanity right now, so if V was going to tell them s/he might very well not now.

[Pyron]

Totally agree, it seems that they have a little doubt about V's sanity right now, so if V was going to tell them s/he might very well not now.

But why didn't V reveal this information while they were on the boat?

The way I see it, there are three reasons why V would want to keep this to herself.

1) Vaarsuvius has no faith in her companions' abilities. The Order of the Stick has no worth and nothing to contribute in her eyes (this opinions was made clear in regards to Durkon). Deep down, she does not trust her party.

2) Vaarsuvius still desires ultimate arcane power. Keep in mind, her confession never acknowledged the fact that arcane magic isn't always the answer (just that she never used it effectively). Therefore, if the gates (and that world) holds some great arcane secret she'd want to find out.

3) It could simply be a superiority complex. Vaarsuvius like to hold something that reminds her that she's better than everyone. After getting her butt whooped by Xykon / seeing the party solve their problems without her, Vaarsuvius can't use her arcane magic to stroke her ego. However, if she knows something that the rest of party does not, she can feel some sense of worth.

[shadowxknight]

Considering how they reacted to the appearance of the raven, I doubt they will take this new information very well.

[Kaytara]

Yes... Another possible factor is a simple researcher's thing - wanting to actually piece things together before taking them to someone else. Consider this:

V: My familiar saw a planet within the rift.
Roy: Huh.
V: Yes. Exactly.

While telling them would undoubtedly be better than not telling them, that type of information seems like it can be shared later as easily as now. V may be waiting for more pieces of the puzzle to reveal themselves.

[Katana_Geldar]

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

[Zeful]

Something's been kind of bothering me. Why didn't Vaarsuvius tell the rest of the order about what she saw. She/he doesn't seem to have any reason to keep it a secret. Why would she/he keep knowledge that could potentiallly be of great importance for their mission to her/himself

V didn't see anything in the Rift. His familiar did. The Order has already reacted badly to the Familiar, odds are good that they'll react badly to any intelligence said familiar could provide.

[Morquard]

V knows that now, but not between BW told him and the familiar conversation.

He should have told them, but I agree he was most likely thinking "What can I tell them, but that there's another planet inside. I know nothing more, and neither will it help us in any way till we have more information".

It's not that uncommon with scholars and such, to not share information that seems irrelevant at least for now. And V is still a wizard and still a scholar.


1) Vaarsuvius has no faith in her companions' abilities. The Order of the Stick has no worth and nothing to contribute in her eyes (this opinions was made clear in regards to Durkon). Deep down, she does not trust her party.

2) Vaarsuvius still desires ultimate arcane power. Keep in mind, her confession never acknowledged the fact that arcane magic isn't always the answer (just that she never used it effectively). Therefore, if the gates (and that world) holds some great arcane secret she'd want to find out.

3) It could simply be a superiority complex. Vaarsuvius like to hold something that reminds her that she's better than everyone. After getting her butt whooped by Xykon / seeing the party solve their problems without her, Vaarsuvius can't use her arcane magic to stroke her ego. However, if she knows something that the rest of party does not, she can feel some sense of worth.
1) That was before the fight with Xykon, before working together with O-chul and Blackwing, and before his talk with Durkon about how "trying but failing" is still better than "do nothing at all".

2) He might not have acknowledged it yet, but I think he's realised it.

3)That could be possible.

[Sholos]

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Did you have a point?

[Morquard]

I think she means "Absence of evidence that V didn't tell anyone, is no evidence of V not telling anyone".

But unless V formulated it like "I learned something new about the rift while fighting Xykon, namely there's a planet inside the demi plane", the talk about the familiar would indicate he didn't tell anyone

[HealthKit]

Just because we didn't see it happen doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Maybe V told the rest of the Order, maybe he/she did.

Either way, I'm willing to bet they'd have the same reaction.

"A planet within the planet. Huh, that's weird... Oh well."

You know what I mean?

[David Argall]

Just because we didn't see it happen doesn't mean it didn't happen.

This is often true, and I make that argument often enough. But here, as others point out, we have evidence that we don't see it because it didn't happen. The party's reaction to V's reference to B seems too clearly the first time they have had this discussion. And that in turn means V has not mentioned B's observation to them.

As to why, I go with her not thinking they can contribute anything.

[Zolkabro]

Imagine the reactions.
Roy: So what you were trying to say?
V: Look, my familiar...
Belkar: You have a familiar?
V: Yeah. Can't you see it on my shoulder?
Durkon: Nice crow.
V: It's a raven! And look, this raven...
Haley: Now you've got a familiar?
V: No, he's been there all the time but you just couldn't see it!
Roy: Aah, like an imaginary friend.
V: And look, this familiar was looking into the rift...
Elan: Your imaginary familiar, you mean?
V: It's not imaginary! It saw a planet in the rift!
Roy, to Haley, whispering: V's gone nuts. Call the ambulance.

Rich may well have done strip 674 as a lead up to this happening.

[Pyron]

1) That was before the fight with Xykon, before working together with O-chul and Blackwing, and before his talk with Durkon about how "trying but failing" is still better than "do nothing at all".

There was nothing from that heart to heart talk (or anything afterwards) that proved Vaarsuvius regards her teammate's worth or even trusts them for that.

The fact that she's not telling them about the Snarl planet is proof. The claim that she withhold the information until she can learn more about this theory (by herself) shows just how arrogant and self-centered she really is. If she feared that the order would react badly to the familiar's intelligence, then that shows how insecure she is (a pragmatic elf would not be concerned with petty insults when the world is at stake).

The Snarl Planet is not irreverent information, since the snarl is a key element in this whole save the world quest. The information at least tells us that the party doesn't know everything they believed about that Snarl. The Order of the Stick has a right to this information. That way, you can have six heads looking into the problem instead of one.

Given Vaarsuvius' track record, leaving the task on her shoulders alone is a recipe for disaster.

[FabuVinny]

And what would change if V did tell them at this moment? Given that they're only having the discussion about the familiar now, there is plenty of time to talk about the nature of the snarl before they reach the gate. In fact, the sudden disbelief over the familiar is probably just an excuse for the subject not to come up until the Giant wants it to.

Also...

:roy: Why didn't you bring this up before? And don't say we di-
:vaarsuvius: You didn't ask.
:roy: Yeah, that.

[Zeful]

The fact that she's not telling them about the Snarl planet is proof. The claim that she withhold the information until she can learn more about this theory (by herself) shows just how arrogant and self-centered she really is. If she feared that the order would react badly to the familiar's intelligence, then that shows how insecure she is (a pragmatic elf would not be concerned with petty insults when the world is at stake).

What does the knowledge of a planet inside the rift do for the Order? Seriously, what good can that knowledge do? The Order already think she's crazy for insisting she had a familiar, how would they react to knowledge the familiar obtained? The same way they did in this strip.

Telling the Order about the planet would only serve to undermine her own position within the Order and render the information meaningless unless they happen to end up on the planet so there can be an "I told you so" moment. That's it. Knowledge about the planet does not help them locate the next gate, or defend it. At this point in the story the knowledge has no purpose, so there's no point to bring it up.

[silvadel]

V doesnt even know WHICH SIDE IS RIGHT presently. Just that there is a lot of information V doesnt have that is very important. Like any researcher V is loathe to relay anything as any theory proffered now would be wild speculation at best.

[Taekwondodo]

Maybe she just didn't think to tell them. They've been apart for so long and she's been doing things for herself during that time. Or maybe she does not feel that it is anything worth telling the rest of the order:

"A planet within the planet? Weird but oh well."

Other things to do and all, namely defeat Xykon (still).

[Thanatosia]

One theory I've seen posted in another thread, that seems kinda out there and yet somewhat plausable, is maybe Blackwing didn't survive the explosive runes or proximity to the Rift, and V realy *has* been driven to madness.

The Death of ones Familiar does have some unfortunate backlash to the caster, and on top of all that V had just been through, I could see it snapping his mind a bit.

[Sylvius]

Because he doesn't yet understand what it is. Until he can actually tell them something useful, V probably doesn't see it as information.

[Pyron]

What does the knowledge of a planet inside the rift do for the Order? Seriously, what good can that knowledge do?

Let's consider the possibilities. Well, for one thing it taught Vaarsuvius something important

:vaarsuvius: “Perhaps we do not know everything we ought to regarding the task which we are undertaking.”

Right there. There is the knowledge that something is off about the Snarl.


The Order already think she's crazy for insisting she had a familiar, how would they react to knowledge the familiar obtained? The same way they did in this strip.

V learned about the Snarl Planet in strip 672. Seriously, she had a whole boat ride to mention this. Plus, Roy and the party acknowledged that V made an attempt to destroy Xykon's phylactery using the rift. I think it's a safe bet that they'd listen to any intel V had on the rift. Then again, I also think using the joke from 674 as an excuse is a red herring.


Telling the Order about the planet would only serve to undermine her own position within the Order and render the information meaningless unless they happen to end up on the planet so there can be an "I told you so" moment. That's it. Knowledge about the planet does not help them locate the next gate, or defend it. At this point in the story the knowledge has no purpose, so there's no point to bring it up.

It's the mission of the entire Order of the Stick to save the world from Xykon and the Snarl. In order to do their job, the entire party should be informed of any and all information regarding their objectives. It doesn't matter how important the information is right now.

Vaarsuvius does not have any right to withhold this information. She doesn't make the decisions for the party (that's Roy and Haley's job). So why not tell them? That way the party can decide if it's worth pursuing! If the party ignores this information then it's on them.

[DBJack]

One theory I've seen posted in another thread, that seems kinda out there and yet somewhat plausable, is maybe Blackwing didn't survive the explosive runes or proximity to the Rift, and V realy *has* been driven to madness.

The Death of ones Familiar does have some unfortunate backlash to the caster, and on top of all that V had just been through, I could see it snapping his mind a bit.

Except Roy could see the familiar. He called it an illusion of a crow. And the wizard loses a point of constitution, so V would be weaker physically.

On V not mentioning it, he seemed quiet after talking with BW. Perhaps she was thinking about his actions during the boat ride, and snapped out of quiet thoughts as Roy was telling people where to go. Haven't you ever spent a long car ride just thinking, and been surprised reaching the destination 4 hours later?

[Kaytara]

Pyron makes good points. However... I feel people here are projecting their own interests and curiosity onto these characters far too much.

You're all "OMG, why didn't V tell the others about it, it's like soooo important!" (paraphrased :smallwink:)

But it's not.

Not to them. The Order has never shown an interest in the Snarl itself. It's as simple as that. They are only interested in stopping Xykon from taking over the Gates and annihilating the world, that's all they have ever been interested in doing, and they expressed interest in the Gates, their location and protections, but not the Snarl. They took it pretty much for granted based on what was said to them - it's a being of pure chaos and it will unmake them all if it gets free. Since actually getting to prove or disprove any of that would mean the worst-case scenario of their struggle, it makes sense that they focus on Xykon, instead.

We are obsessed about gathering every single bit of detail about this mysterious entity because we surmise that the Order will have to deal with it eventually, but they have no such notion. This little detail about the planet is the first and only thing that made them (or V, at any rate) even remotely aware of the idea of the Snarl as an entity and variable all in its own league, separate from the Gates, whereas earlier the word "Snarl" just stood for "Doomsday".

More to the point, V's arrogance has been a huge plot point just a short while ago. If we were supposed to get the message that V is still dangerously arrogant based on how he denies the others valuable information, I'd think the comic would have shown at least a hint of it. As it is now, it's being argued that V still has huge problems with arrogance, trusting others and considering them to be equal teammates based simply on the fact that, in the two comics that have followed since the revelation, we haven't seen V talk to anyone on-panel about it.

Seems kind of shaky to me. All it would take now to shatter these theories is an offhand mention of how, say, V repeatedly tried talking to Roy about it at various times and kept getting comically cut off, or how Roy told him something along the lines of "Hm, the Snarl?... We'll cross that bridge when we get there, now shush, I'm trying to figure out the optimal battle tactics against Xykon." The exchange about V's familiar does not preclude any of that having taken place, so I do not consider it to be sufficient proof that he didn't try. Or, considering that we can already see the presumed destination in the end of 672, maybe the boat trip took a few hours rather than a few weeks and there simply hasn't been time to mention it when V already had plenty to mull through, anyway.

[Berserk Monk]

Something's been kind of bothering me. Why didn't Vaarsuvius tell the rest of the order about what she saw. She/he doesn't seem to have any reason to keep it a secret. Why would she/he keep knowledge that could potentiallly be of great importance for their mission to her/himself

Reason's I can think of:

1. S/He did, but it was off panel and Rich didn't want to waste time showing it.

2. V didn't think it was that big of a deal.

3. S/He isn't going to tell anyone about it until s/he better understands what it really is.

[Nimrod's Son]

I expect V will tell the Order, but hasn't yet for pacing reasons. The last book ended with the big reveal about the nature of the Snarl; to open the next book with a lengthy discussion about said reveal would be very poor form. We'll get to it in due course.

[Ted The Bug]

I think that strip 674 bugged me in general.
Nobody talked to V at all (or even looked at hir while they were on the boat, since they would've seen the raven), and then suddenly they all jump to the conclusion that V is deranged just because s/he says that s/he has a familiar? A familiar that Haley not only named, but remembered 100 panels after the first appearance when V got cursed.
I hate to just whine (although unfortunately that seems to be what I'm doing), but that whole comic irritated me because it ignores the hours (literally!) of time the Order spent reunited in which someone probably would've asked either V or O-Chul what happened, and it ignores the time spent on a boat where Blackwing was completely visible.

At least that's my take.

[veti]

I like the "Blackwing actually died and now V is hallucinating" theory. Maybe she's so powerful that her hallucination actually becomes an externally visible illusion. It explains two other things: why Blackwing has had a personality change, and why he only "popped" in on the boat when no-one else was looking.

Another possibility is that Blackwing is no longer the same Blackwing. Maybe the Rift was like some kind of portal to an alternate universe, in which an alternate Blackwing was making the same flight at the same time, and they swapped places and haven't realised it yet. Maybe it's actually Xykon's familiar, or an agent of the IFCC. The possibilities are scary...

But that wouldn't explain why Haley and Durkon (and the rest of the Order, but those two particularly) have forgotten about Blackwing's very existence. The only thing I can see that would explain that, is if Blackwing himself (no ambiguity about his gender, strangely) has undergone some sort of Snarl-related reality shift.

[Dancing_Fox]

One theory I've seen posted in another thread, that seems kinda out there and yet somewhat plausable, is maybe Blackwing didn't survive the explosive runes or proximity to the Rift, and V realy *has* been driven to madness.

The Death of ones Familiar does have some unfortunate backlash to the caster, and on top of all that V had just been through, I could see it snapping his mind a bit.

Yes to what most of the other posters have put out there.

But on this point in particular, there is another concern - there was information generated. Even assuming for a moment that Blackwing died at the Snarl and that V. has gone mad - where did the INFORMATION come from to V. about the planet within the planet? It couldn't have come from Blackwing if he was dead. (No telepathic link, no scrying.) Unless V's mind is making an intuitive leap.

So I'd say that the onus would be really to prove that Blackwing was dead, rather than the other way around. The extra new information must be explained.

Whereas with Blackwing alive, there is no need to explain where this new information came from - it came from Blackwing who is reporting what he saw. Less complicated.

But as for the Snarl having some side-effect, such as making Blackwing harder to see (etc etc etc), well, that is all still on the table. How about we wait a few more strips?

[Pyron]

You're all "OMG, why didn't V tell the others about it, it's like soooo important!" (paraphrased :smallwink:)

But it's not.

Not to them. The Order has never shown an interest in the Snarl itself. It's as simple as that. They are only interested in stopping Xykon from taking over the Gates and annihilating the world, that's all they have ever been interested in doing, and they expressed interest in the Gates, their location and protections, but not the Snarl.

But isn't the Snarl the thing is being locked up inside the gates? Saying that the party is not interested in the Snarl but only the 'gates', or whatever is splitting hairs. Just because they're more concerned with gates and Xykon doesn't mean the Snarl is not important. It just means that the Order of the Stick have their priorities.

More important, I know this phenomena has been coined as the 'Snarl Planet' but that does not necessarily mean the planet actually is snarl or even snarl related. Assuming it's snarl related and therefore not important is an assumption.


They took it pretty much for granted based on what was said to them - it's a being of pure chaos and it will unmake them all if it gets free.

That's the heart of the problem. We have five people who are operating under an assumption. We have one person who realized that they don't have all the facts straight, and did not bother mentioning it.


Since actually getting to prove or disprove any of that would mean the worst-case scenario of their struggle, it makes sense that they focus on Xykon, instead.

Or they don't have be concerned with the information (right away) even if they were made aware. However, it would be the Order's decision (as a whole) to decide if the matter is more important than dealing with Xykon. That's what I'm trying to stress: instead of projecting our own interests, the Order of the Stick (the characters who are actually doing to work) should be allowed to determine their priorities. They can't do that properly when one of their teammates decides to withhold quest-related information.


More to the point, V's arrogance has been a huge plot point just a short while ago. If we were supposed to get the message that V is still dangerously arrogant based on how he denies the others valuable information, I'd think the comic would have shown at least a hint of it.

Maybe we are seeing hints. Hints aren't always spelled out. Also, character development is not a light switch. Vaarsuvius spent 100+ years with her arrogant mindset, she's not going revert to an non-arrogant person in a heart beat. It takes time to break bad habits.


As it is now, it's being argued that V still has huge problems with arrogance, trusting others and considering them to be equal teammates based simply on the fact that, in the two comics that have followed since the revelation, we haven't seen V talk to anyone on-panel about it.

Her opinion on Durkon is another case for arrogance. Remember, while he was doing his job by reviving Roy, V made the off-hand comment that his magic is not real. Certainly not a pragmatic or logical opinion since, well, divine magic has as much of real effect as arcane. We could argue that she was stressed, under the effect of the soul splice, etc. That would mean that she didn't mean to say those things. But that can't be the case, because she had the opportunity to apologize but did not take it. That's what a considerate person does, they apologize for things they didn't mean to say.

This might not seem important. But, I just want to see V making an effort. Something to she show that she trusts her teammates. That point might come later down the line, but it hasn't happened yet.


Seems kind of shaky to me. All it would take now to shatter these theories is an offhand mention of how, say, V repeatedly tried talking to Roy about it at various times and kept getting comically cut off, or how Roy told him something along the lines of "Hm, the Snarl?... We'll cross that bridge when we get there, now shush, I'm trying to figure out the optimal battle tactics against Xykon." The exchange about V's familiar does not preclude any of that having taken place, so I do not consider it to be sufficient proof that he didn't try.

On the other hand, there is absolutely no proof that Vaarsuvius did try. Without any evidence, the default assumption is she didn't tell anyone.


Or, considering that we can already see the presumed destination in the end of 672, maybe the boat trip took a few hours rather than a few weeks and there simply hasn't been time to mention it when V already had plenty to mull through, anyway.

We know several things: the distance from the new Azurite settlement and the Western Continent is a few dozen kilometers. Assuming the party used a sailboat (2mph in the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#sailingShip)), that trip might take 10 hours. This is to reach somewhere on the northern side of the western continent. According to the familicide spell map, the desert is considerably south. This is just a rough guess, but I'd say the boat took at least a few days. That's plenty of time to think about it.

I will admit to the possibility that V's could be mulling over everything and simply hasn't thought of it. However, the fact that she's mulling indicates that she has not reached the point where she's able to accept her teammates as equals.

[veti]

But on this point in particular, there is another concern - there was information generated. Even assuming for a moment that Blackwing died at the Snarl and that V. has gone mad - where did the INFORMATION come from to V. about the planet within the planet? It couldn't have come from Blackwing if he was dead. (No telepathic link, no scrying.) Unless V's mind is making an intuitive leap.

So I'd say that the onus would be really to prove that Blackwing was dead, rather than the other way around. The extra new information must be explained.

Now, surely you're not saying that V's mind is incapable of making stuff up on its own. No, you're not - you do mention the "intuitive leap" possibility.

During Blackwing's flight, V was quite literally doing nothing at all. It seems very likely that Blackwing was one of, if not the, greatest focus of her concentration. I'm sure she was concentrating on the "empathic link", and possibly even subconsciously scrying. So anything that Blackwing saw, V's mind would have responded to.

Now, we could posit that there's some part of V's mind that followed Blackwing and absorbed the information, even while the main focus of her concentration was panicking about what was going to happen next.

Alternatively, the whole "planet" story could be completely made up by V's own imagination. Consider: all her life, she's pursued Ultimate Arcane Power, assuming that it would allow her to do anything and everything she'd always wanted. But now she's discovered, the hard way, that UAP isn't nearly as powerful as it's cracked up to be. Her firmest and most deeply held belief has been shaken, if not shattered. Her subconscious may be responding by planting doubts in her about other things she thought she believed, including the driving force of her present mission.

Okay, so there's zero direct evidence for either of these theories. I'm sure you can come up with others that would explain the evidence just as well if not better. I'm just saying, we shouldn't dismiss possibilities out of hand - because there is evidence that the mainstream theory (that everything is just the way it seems) simply doesn't account for.

[Trobby]

One theory I've seen posted in another thread, that seems kinda out there and yet somewhat plausable, is maybe Blackwing didn't survive the explosive runes or proximity to the Rift, and V realy *has* been driven to madness.

The Death of ones Familiar does have some unfortunate backlash to the caster, and on top of all that V had just been through, I could see it snapping his mind a bit.

Hmm...I find this theory strangely compelling and I wish to follow it. Could you perhaps provide me with a link?

Anyway, I believe someone posed the possibility that this may, in fact, be an alternate Blackwing that came out of the rift, and that nobody has noticed the change yet, simply because they aren't paying attention?

Shinjo: "The gods had been clever and built their planet to exist in multiple coterminous dimensions, thus blocking the only vibrational frequencies the Snarl could have used to escape from its cell"

Which is interpreted to mean:

:vaarsuvius:: "He means that the world we live in is merely the padlock on the jailhouse door of reality."

But it could also mean that, in order to prevent the Snarl from escaping into other dimensions, they built the world around it so that it would stabilize all possible realities equally.

And if there are five rifts that we know of in this reality, then who's to say there aren't rifts in other realities? Perhaps one placed in just such a spot so that one Blackwing could fly through, and the other one could come and replace him.

Now, I have another theory that explains why the OotS is ignoring Blackwing's existence, but that delves into the very nature of the Snarl, so I'm going to post that info in a topic all its own. Link here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6886901#post6886901

The rift may very well be far more dangerous than we thought. And in fact, Vaarsuvius may already know this, and is simply not saying so yet, because she is so terrified of it that she cannot muster the courage to tell her comrades, or that she may not be afraid so much, but concerned that mentioning trans-dimensional rifts might halt them from their progress, and that it would no longer be able to stop Xykon from opening the two rifts that they know are already sealed properly.

Or, and this is the worst-case scenario, V might believe now that stopping the rifts from tearing apart reality is a fruitless endeavor; there are too many dimensions and too many rifts to stop from forming, and all they are doing by protecting the rifts or sealing off a few is delaying the inevitable, and the best thing she can do is allow her friends to keep on going under the belief that it CAN be stopped, because taking away their hope would be taking away the last solid thing that they can hold on to.

[Lkctgo]

Conclusions are usually drawn from two premises, in this case:

a) I believe there can be a world in a world.
b) I believe the raven.

Considering that V could not even convince them of the raven, I do not believe that V could have convinced them about the world within a world.

Now, only magic, to be specific divination, can actually tell the order what's going on. But considering that the only one with a good enough divination magic would be V, the Order must firstly believe V about the world to discern anything else, which they will not do.

Now V might have already told them. But if she didn't, then she would never tell them. Because "they'll never believe me even if I did tell them".