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oxinabox
2009-09-02, 11:03 PM
Is there any better armor, for a 4 dex character than a Mithral full plate?
+3 dex to AC. +8 Armour bonus.

where the cut off how much dex do you have before you need to use somthing lighter?

EnnPeeCee
2009-09-02, 11:12 PM
While it needs a feat to wear, Mithril Mountain Plate is technically better. +2 Max Dex, +10AC. Its also not exactly using your dex the most efficiently either.

BobVosh
2009-09-02, 11:14 PM
Also note that mithril mountain plate is still heavy armor.

tyckspoon
2009-09-02, 11:24 PM
If you're concerned about just your standard AC value, then you need a Dex mod of +10 or better before you even think about ditching your Mithral Fullplate- that's how much Dex you need for Bracers of Armor +1 to provide the same total AC bonus as the Fullplate's composite +11. Or Gnome Twistcloth (Races of Stone), which is basically slightly armored clothing; +1 AC bonus and no max Dex bonus. If your Dex is that high, however, you probably never considered wearing any kind of Fullplate, whether that's because you don't have Medium armor proficiency, you didn't want to deal with the Armor Check Penalty, or you were just willing to sacrifice a point of highest possible normal AC in order to have your Touch AC get the full benefit of your Dex.

olentu
2009-09-02, 11:26 PM
Hmm I wonder if one could make mithril mechanus gear.

Grumman
2009-09-03, 03:21 AM
Hmm I wonder if one could make mithril mechanus gear.
Heh. My Dwarven Pike Regiment build uses glasssteel Mechanus Gear. +13 AC for everybody!

olentu
2009-09-03, 05:07 AM
Heh. My Dwarven Pike Regiment build uses glasssteel Mechanus Gear. +13 AC for everybody!

I thought that glasssteel was updated to be basically the same thing as mithral.

Kaiyanwang
2009-09-03, 06:20 AM
I thought that glasssteel was updated to be basically the same thing as mithral.

IIRC, the latest version says that is esentially mithral with the hardness and hitpoints (and nothing else) of Adamantine.

I guess if could be good for a towershield.. after all, mithral towershields do exist in RoTW.

oxinabox
2009-09-03, 06:29 AM
anyone else notice that the weight of mithral full plate is exactly enough to put a character of -1 STR mod into the Med encombrance teratory - which has the same effect as wearing a mithral plate?

peacenlove
2009-09-03, 07:18 AM
Celestial armor (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicArmor.htm)
+8 max dexterity, +5 armor bonus, LIGHT ARMOR, and of common material (you can stack mithril on it if your dexterity allows it). Great for mounts especially of the paladin variety who can't normally fly.

oxinabox
2009-09-03, 07:29 AM
Celestial armor (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicArmor.htm)
+8 max dexterity, +5 armor bonus, LIGHT ARMOR, and of common material (you can stack mithril on it if your dexterity allows it). Great for mounts especially of the paladin variety who can't normally fly.
And 22,400 gp; vs mithral fulls ~10,200 gp
And
You might as well have siad +3 mithral chain: ~16,500gp

Fuzzy_Juan
2009-09-03, 07:30 AM
Ya know, that just makes me wonder if one can have a suit of that which is non-magical. would the base protections be +8 max dex and +5 armor bonus?

If so...that would be awesome.

peacenlove
2009-09-03, 07:33 AM
Ya know, that just makes me wonder if one can have a suit of that which is non-magical. would the base protections be +8 max dex and +5 armor bonus?

If so...that would be awesome.

You can. Just apply disjunction to it and re-enchant it at your leisure. Or you can talk to your DM and see if he allows "reconstructing" it (eg instead of a +3 bonus it could give +1, Spell resistance (13) )

shadzar
2009-09-03, 07:34 AM
Well there was something in olden days from Blackmoor in a list of alien devices. One was called a God Suit and conferred a +10 to AC, and weighed nothing. The name was given because they didn't know what aliens were that left these ancient things there and had no idea what else to cal it. Like a full body unitard and could be worn under anything IIRC.

You might want to check it out and see if you can find the details and convert it to your preferred edition.

oxinabox
2009-09-03, 07:55 AM
You can. Just apply disjunction to it and re-enchant it at your leisure.

You apply disjustion to it and your back to an ordiany mithral chain shirt.
Mithral chain shirt 1,100 gp AC+4 MAx dex+6 .
wait no your not.
umm...
a normal chain shirt.
+4 Ac +4max dex... no not that either, i'm confused

Kris Strife
2009-09-03, 09:00 AM
whats the heaviest armor that can have its ASF chance lowered to 0, legally?
3.5e preferably?

woodenbandman
2009-09-03, 09:21 AM
Have you tried Great Armor from Oriental Adventures? Make that out of Darkwood or Mithral or whatever.

I think if you're willing to take a few levels of spellsword, you can get the ability to cast in Twilight Mithral fullplate. There may also be a mundane enhancement you can add to it somewhere for that sort of thing.

Kris Strife
2009-09-03, 09:38 AM
Have you tried Great Armor from Oriental Adventures? Make that out of Darkwood or Mithral or whatever.

I think if you're willing to take a few levels of spellsword, you can get the ability to cast in Twilight Mithral fullplate. There may also be a mundane enhancement you can add to it somewhere for that sort of thing.

Isn't Spellsword a trap though?

Also, great armor actually has a higher ASF % than Fullplate.

Doc Roc
2009-09-03, 11:03 AM
Isn't Spellsword a trap though?

Also, great armor actually has a higher ASF % than Fullplate.

A one dip is just fine.

Eldariel
2009-09-03, 11:08 AM
A one dip is just fine.

Not only that, but one-level dip is necessary for many Gish-builds to enter the true Gish PrCs (this means Abjurant Champion) without losing BAB or CL ASAP. An example would be the classic Sorcadin: Paladin 2/Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Sacred Exorcist 8. Note that Eldritch Knight would cause losing out on 9th level spells pre-epic hence why it's not an option.

lsfreak
2009-09-03, 11:09 AM
You apply disjustion to it and your back to an ordiany mithral chain shirt.
Mithral chain shirt 1,100 gp AC+4 MAx dex+6 .
wait no your not.
umm...
a normal chain shirt.
+4 Ac +4max dex... no not that either, i'm confused

That's what makes celestial armor so good, is that it doesn't follow the normal rules. It's got chainmail-level AC with maxdex/ACP better than a chain shirt. It's some of the extra 13.000gp tacked onto the armor above what the +3 warrants, since the flying 5/rnds a day doesn't quite cover the difference.

Cieyrin
2009-09-03, 11:42 AM
You apply disjustion to it and your back to an ordiany mithral chain shirt.
Mithral chain shirt 1,100 gp AC+4 MAx dex+6 .
wait no your not.
umm...
a normal chain shirt.
+4 Ac +4max dex... no not that either, i'm confused

Disjuncting Celestial Armor gets you a regular suit of chainmail. +5 AC, Max Dex +2.

Anyway, if you want to upgrade from Mithral Fullplate, You should be getting some Mithral Battle Plate and throw Nimbleness (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/magweapdesc.pl?Nimbleness^marmortype)on it so that it naturally has a Max Dex of +5. To pimp it out further would require levels of Champion of Correlon, meaning Elf only, unless Ruathar acts like Stoneblessed and I failed to notice <_<;;

Also, take Heavy Armor Optimization (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Heavy_Armor_Optimization,RS) and Greater Heavy Armor Optimization (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Greater_Heavy_Armor_Optimization,RS), so, in total, a suit of +5 Nimbleness Mithral Battle Plate will have the stats of 9+5+2= +16 Armor bonus, Max Dex of 1+2+2= +5, ACP of 7-2-3-1= -1, ASF of 50-10= 40%.

Eldariel
2009-09-03, 02:24 PM
Disjuncting Celestial Armor gets you a regular suit of chainmail. +5 AC, Max Dex +2.

Quick calculation suggests that the mundane part of Celestial Armor costs X where:
22400-X = (12550-X)2
X = 2700gp (this is assuming that the cost of acquiring the non-magical base item is included in the crafting costs and final costs and not doubled)

So it's not a mundane Chain Mail, which costs only few hundred GPs. Now, the principal issue is that the XP costs aren't concurrent with this. Indeed, according to XP costs, the whole shebang should cost 25100gp. So I'm not entirely sure what to make out of it. All I can say is, it should be at least a Mithril Chain Mail if Disjunctioned, but I've seen nothing that suggests against it maintaining all its properties.

Yukitsu
2009-09-03, 02:38 PM
I think the discrepancy is because celestial chain is made out of 40 pounds of gold or silver.

Cieyrin
2009-09-03, 07:30 PM
I think the discrepancy is because celestial chain is made out of 40 pounds of gold or silver.

20 pounds, actually, of celestial gold or silver.

As for the armor, the +3 bit is 9000 and the fly 1/day is 3 (spell level) x 5 (min caster level) x 1800 (cost of command word spell effect) x (1/5) (discount for using 1/day) = 5400. So the enchantments are 14400, leaving 8000 gp in costs for whatever the hell the base suit is. Whatever it's made of increases Max Dex by +6, reduced ACP by -3, reduced ASF by 15%, made it light armor and cut the weight in half. It's like super mithral or something. Why don't celestials make more armor out of this stuff?!?

Fuzzy_Juan
2009-09-03, 07:38 PM
20 pounds, actually, of celestial gold or silver.

As for the armor, the +3 bit is 9000 and the fly 1/day is 3 (spell level) x 5 (min caster level) x 1800 (cost of command word spell effect) x (1/5) (discount for using 1/day) = 5400. So the enchantments are 14400, leaving 8000 gp in costs for whatever the hell the base suit is. Whatever it's made of increases Max Dex by +6, reduced ACP by -3, reduced ASF by 15%, made it light armor and cut the weight in half. It's like super mithral or something. Why don't celestials make more armor out of this stuff?!?

Ya, now that is what I am talkin' bout...I want a suit of full plate made out of that :smallbiggrin:

Fizban
2009-09-03, 07:47 PM
On the glassteel: adamantine used to give the armor an enhancement bonus instead of damage reduction, and glassteel is the best of both mithral and adamantine, so in 3.0 there you go.

Also: am I the only one seeing +1 Mithral Mechanus Gear of Nimbleness right now? +10 armor +4 max dex, but you move at 15'. That is funky.

Cieyrin
2009-09-03, 08:29 PM
On the glassteel: adamantine used to give the armor an enhancement bonus instead of damage reduction, and glassteel is the best of both mithral and adamantine, so in 3.0 there you go.

Also: am I the only one seeing +1 Mithral Mechanus Gear of Nimbleness right now? +10 armor +4 max dex, but you move at 15'. That is funky.

Mechanus Gear and Mountain Plate are weird armors indeed. I'd lean toward using the Mountain Plate definition of slowage, as the Planar Handbook is very 3.0ish.

Curmudgeon
2009-09-03, 08:43 PM
It can get a lot better, if you've got the gp to spend. You can get (+14 + WIS bonus), and no armor -- so no DEX limit, ACP, or any other pesky impediment.

1) Start with the right clothing.
Scholar’s Outfit

Perfect for a scholar, this outfit includes a robe, a belt, a cap, soft shoes, and possibly a cloak.2) Next, enhance the robe with an armor bonus (up to +8), as per Magic Item Compendium page 234. This works exactly the same as Bracers of Armor; the "Adding/Improving Common Item Effects" table allows armor bonuses in both Arms (bracers) and Body (robe) slots.

3) Next, you can add an armor enhancement bonus on top of the armor bonus if you get a Cleric friend to cast Magic Vestment:
You imbue a suit of armor or a shield with an enhancement bonus of +1 per four caster levels (maximum +5 at 20th level).

An outfit of regular clothing counts as armor that grants no AC bonus for the purpose of this spell.4) Finally, realize that your armor boost (up to +13 already) isn't from actual armor at all, and thus you can still wear a Monk's Belt to get (1 + WIS bonus) more AC!

Starbuck_II
2009-09-03, 08:48 PM
It can get a lot better, if you've got the gp to spend. You can get (+14 + WIS bonus), and no armor -- so no DEX limit, ACP, or any other pesky impediment.

1) Start with the right clothing.2) Next, enhance the robe with an armor bonus (up to +8), as per Magic Item Compendium page 234. This works exactly the same as Bracers of Armor; the "Adding/Improving Common Item Effects" table allows armor bonuses in both Arms (bracers) and Body (robe) slots.

3) Next, you can add an armor enhancement bonus on top of the armor bonus if you get a Cleric friend to cast Magic Vestment:4) Finally, realize that your armor boost (up to +13 already) isn't from actual armor at all, and thus you can still wear a Monk's Belt to get (1 + WIS bonus) more AC!

You can't stack Bracers and Enhancement bonuses.
The armor is still 0, but has a force armor bonus of X.
Not X + Enhancement, but 0 and X at same time (overlapping rules).

Curmudgeon
2009-09-03, 08:59 PM
You can't stack Bracers and Enhancement bonuses.
It's not Bracers; it's a robe with an armor bonus.

The armor is still 0, but has a force armor bonus of X.
Not X + Enhancement, but 0 and X at same time (overlapping rules).
It's not armor at all. Please read the rules in Magic Item Compendium on pages 233-234. This is all correct by the RAW.

olentu
2009-09-03, 09:01 PM
It can get a lot better, if you've got the gp to spend. You can get (+14 + WIS bonus), and no armor -- so no DEX limit, ACP, or any other pesky impediment.

1) Start with the right clothing.2) Next, enhance the robe with an armor bonus (up to +8), as per Magic Item Compendium page 234. This works exactly the same as Bracers of Armor; the "Adding/Improving Common Item Effects" table allows armor bonuses in both Arms (bracers) and Body (robe) slots.

3) Next, you can add an armor enhancement bonus on top of the armor bonus if you get a Cleric friend to cast Magic Vestment:4) Finally, realize that your armor boost (up to +13 already) isn't from actual armor at all, and thus you can still wear a Monk's Belt to get (1 + WIS bonus) more AC!

The problem would of course be that magically enchanted clothing is not regular and thus not a valid target for the spell.

Curmudgeon
2009-09-03, 09:19 PM
The problem would of course be that magically enchanted clothing is not regular and thus not a valid target for the spell.
Magic Vestment works on magically enhanced armor and magically enhanced shields, and it also works on clothing. It's a big stretch to say that it doesn't work on magically enhanced clothing.

olentu
2009-09-03, 09:28 PM
Magic Vestment works on magically enhanced armor and magically enhanced shields, and it also works on clothing. It's a big stretch to say that it doesn't work on magically enhanced clothing.

Not really. The only reason that it works on any clothing at all is due to this sentence "An outfit of regular clothing counts as armor that grants no AC bonus for the purpose of this spell." Now since the enchanted clothing is not regular it does not count as armor for the purpose of the spell. So barring a rather higher percentage of enchanted clothing then what I have found most campaign worlds to contain the enchanted clothing is not a valid target for the spell since it is not regular and thus does not count as armor in this case.

Curmudgeon
2009-09-03, 09:33 PM
Now since the enchanted clothing is not regular it does not count as armor for the purpose of the spell.
OK, if you're saying that a robe (part of a standard PC's clothing) isn't regular clothing after it's undergone some expensive improvements, what is regular clothing? Is a noble's outfit (another standard PC clothing choice) "regular"?

Once you decide that something isn't "regular" clothing, you're required to find some place in the rules that defines what is "regular" clothing. So where is that?

quick_comment
2009-09-03, 09:38 PM
Magic Vestment works on magically enhanced armor and magically enhanced shields, and it also works on clothing. It's a big stretch to say that it doesn't work on magically enhanced clothing.

It doesnt make a huge difference anyway. You magically enchant your robe, and cast magic vestament on your hat.

olentu
2009-09-03, 09:46 PM
OK, if you're saying that a robe (part of a standard PC's clothing) isn't regular clothing after it's undergone some expensive improvements, what is regular clothing? Is a noble's outfit (another standard PC clothing choice) "regular"?

Once you decide that something isn't "regular" clothing, you're required to find some place in the rules that defines what is "regular" clothing. So where is that?

Well in that case the only answer is that the trick may or may not work since there is an undefined term and so there can not really be any more discussion about it as neither side is correct or incorrect except in specific cases of DM rulings unless a definition of regular clothing is found.

The best I can do is find something that heavily implies that would be normal clothing but since I can not find an exact match for the term regular clothing the best I can offer is that due to the undefined term I think it would be best if in the future it was noted that the trick depends on the DM interpretation of what regular clothing is.

Edit: Assuming one could the armor bonuses from the hat and robe would not stack as they would be two different armor bonuses.

Curmudgeon
2009-09-03, 09:49 PM
It doesnt make a huge difference anyway. You magically enchant your robe, and cast magic vestament on your hat.
... or your shirt, breeches, leggings, belt, or whatever. Yes, I realize this. I was just trying to point out the difficulties when you decide something isn't "normal" (like movement) or "regular" (like clothing); you're always consequently forced to define what is allowed. And that gets tricky.

People used to claim that you couldn't Tumble on a 5' adjustment or on a charge because it wasn't "normal" movement; it had to be a move action to qualify as "normal". Rules Compendium established that you could indeed Tumble on a charge; "normal" movement is any movement where you've got a listed speed.

By analogy with the D&D use of "normal", I expect anything that looks like "regular" clothing to count for Magic Vestment.

My Edit to respond to your Edit:

Edit: Assuming one could the armor bonuses from the hat and robe would not stack as they would be two different armor bonuses. They stack just fine. The robe provides an armor bonus. Magic Vestment provides an enhancement bonus. If you look at the D&D modifier types (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm#modifierTypes) list you'll see that these are different types.

olentu
2009-09-03, 10:04 PM
... or your shirt, breeches, leggings, belt, or whatever. Yes, I realize this. I was just trying to point out the difficulties when you decide something isn't "normal" (like movement) or "regular" (like clothing); you're always consequently forced to define what is allowed. And that gets tricky.

People used to claim that you couldn't Tumble on a 5' adjustment or on a charge because it wasn't "normal" movement; it had to be a move action to qualify as "normal". Rules Compendium established that you could indeed Tumble on a charge; "normal" movement is any movement where you've got a listed speed.

By analogy with the D&D use of "normal", I expect anything that looks like "regular" clothing to count for Magic Vestment.

My Edit to respond to your Edit:
They stack just fine. The robe provides an armor bonus. Magic Vestment provides an enhancement bonus. If you look at the D&D modifier types (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm#modifierTypes) list you'll see that these are different types.

As per the rules compendium an enhancement bonus represents an increase in an armor bonus, a natural armor bonus, or a shield bonus. It can also represent an increase in a weapons effectiveness or a general bonus to an ability score. So either the enhancement bonus is increasing the hat's or the character's armor bonus and then the newly increased armor bonus would not stack with the armor bonus provided by the robe.

Also I would not expect or not expect for any clothing or thing that looks like clothing to work with magic vestment unless a DM rules on the subject.

quick_comment
2009-09-03, 10:05 PM
Also I would not expect or not expect for any clothing or thing that looks like clothing to work with magic vestment unless a DM rules on the subject.

What is the difference between clothing and armor? Padded armor is basically a coat.

Grumman
2009-09-03, 10:07 PM
Also: am I the only one seeing +1 Mithral Mechanus Gear of Nimbleness right now? +10 armor +4 max dex, but you move at 15'. That is funky.
That's why you give it to a Dwarf or a Knight.

quick_comment
2009-09-03, 10:08 PM
That's why you give it to a Dwarf or a Knight.

Or a psion with inconstant location

olentu
2009-09-03, 10:10 PM
What is the difference between clothing and armor? Padded armor is basically a coat.

Clothing is not listed as armor and thus monks do not have to be naked.

Cieyrin
2009-09-03, 10:17 PM
Clothing is not listed as armor and thus monks do not have to be naked.

Your first set of clothing also weighs and costs nothing so characters in general don't have to be naked. <_<;;

Darrin
2009-09-03, 10:30 PM
whats the heaviest armor that can have its ASF chance lowered to 0, legally?
3.5e preferably?

Well, assuming you can stack Feycraft and Githcraft on the same armor...

Twilight -10%
Mithril -10%
Thistledown -5%
Feycraft -5%
Githcraft -5%
========
Total -35%

That would cover Full Plate, +8 Armor bonus.

If you add 3 levels of Spellsword (-15% ASF), you could go up to Heavy Plate (+9 Armor bonus, 45% ASF) or Mechanus Gear (+10 Armor bonus, 50% ASF). More levels of Spellsword could go even higher, up to 65%.

Curmudgeon
2009-09-04, 12:38 AM
As per the rules compendium an enhancement bonus represents an increase in an armor bonus, a natural armor bonus, or a shield bonus. It can also represent an increase in a weapons effectiveness or a general bonus to an ability score. So either the enhancement bonus is increasing the hat's or the character's armor bonus and then the newly increased armor bonus would not stack with the armor bonus provided by the robe.
Let's correct this misunderstand of the rules, shall we?
Enhancement Bonuses
An enhancement bonus makes an armor bonus, natural armor bonus, or a shield bonus better. The enhancement bonus stacks as if it were part of the bonus to which it applies—armor, natural armor, or shield—so it’s not included in the AC formula above. An enhancement bonus to armor stacks as if it were part of the creature's armor bonus. It's not merely an upgrade to any particular piece of armor, and needn't be on the same item that provides the armor bonus.

Now, it's true that the most common way to get an armor enhancement bonus is to make an upgrade to a particular piece of armor using the Craft Magic Arms And Armor feat, but that's definitely not the only way allowed by the rules.

olentu
2009-09-04, 12:47 AM
Let's correct this misunderstand of the rules, shall we? An enhancement bonus to armor stacks as if it were part of the creature's armor bonus. It's not merely an upgrade to any particular piece of armor, and needn't be on the same item that provides the armor bonus.

Now, it's true that the most common way to get an armor enhancement bonus is to make an upgrade to a particular piece of armor using the Craft Magic Arms And Armor feat, but that's definitely not the only way allowed by the rules.

It stacks as if it were part of the bonus to which it applies which would be part of the +0 armor bonus to AC given by the hat thus it would stack as if it were part of the hats armor bonus to AC and the hat's armor bonus to AC would not stack with other armor bonuses.

Edit: Please note that nowhere in the spell does it say that wearing a piece of equipment with an enhancement bonus added by the spell grants said bonus to the wearer.

Kris Strife
2009-09-04, 05:38 AM
Well, assuming you can stack Feycraft and Githcraft on the same armor...

Twilight -10%
Mithril -10%
Thistledown -5%
Feycraft -5%
Githcraft -5%
========
Total -35%

That would cover Full Plate, +8 Armor bonus.

If you add 3 levels of Spellsword (-15% ASF), you could go up to Heavy Plate (+9 Armor bonus, 45% ASF) or Mechanus Gear (+10 Armor bonus, 50% ASF). More levels of Spellsword could go even higher, up to 65%.

I think thistledown only applies to non metallic armors, does it not? And where are Feycraft and Githcraft from?

sofawall
2009-09-04, 05:44 AM
I think the padding in your armour can be thistledown, and fey/githcraft are from DMG 2.

Grumman
2009-09-04, 06:02 AM
IIRC, the latest version says that is esentially mithral with the hardness and hitpoints (and nothing else) of Adamantine.
Where is this latest version found? Is it more recent than the Player's Guide to Faerun?

Curmudgeon
2009-09-04, 07:25 AM
It stacks as if it were part of the bonus to which it applies which would be part of the +0 armor bonus to AC given by the hat thus it would stack as if it were part of the hats armor bonus to AC and the hat's armor bonus to AC would not stack with other armor bonuses.
I'm not sure I'm completely following this run-on sentence, but I'll try to respond anyway. "It stacks as if it were part of the bonus to which it applies" doesn't follow the D&D stacking rules. From the Player's Handbook Glossary:
In most cases, modifiers to a given check or roll stack (combine for a cumulative effect) if they come from different sources and have different descriptors (or no descriptors at all) An armor bonus (the robe) and an enhancement bonus to armor (the hat) are different descriptor types; these always stack. There is only one armor bonus involved here; the other is an enhancement bonus.

Edit: Please note that nowhere in the spell does it say that wearing a piece of equipment with an enhancement bonus added by the spell grants said bonus to the wearer.
It doesn't need to say that in the spell, because the rules already cover that in the section on Magic Items on the Body (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm#magicItemsOnTheBody):
Many magic items need to be donned by a character who wants to employ them or benefit from their abilities. It’s possible for a creature with a humanoid-shaped body to wear as many as twelve magic items at the same time. However, each of those items must be worn on (or over) a particular part of the body. If it's a wearable item that's been given a magical ability, you obtain the benefit of that magic by wearing the item on the appropriate part of the body.

Fizban
2009-09-04, 09:09 AM
Or a psion with inconstant location

+1 Mithral Mechanus Gear Barding of Nimbleness... on a Blink Dog. Dimension Door 1/round as a free action baby!

AmberVael
2009-09-04, 09:10 AM
I'm not sure I'm completely following this run-on sentence, but I'll try to respond anyway. "It stacks as if it were part of the bonus to which it applies" doesn't follow the D&D stacking rules..

No, it follows the rules of enhancement bonuses you quoted yourself, which are specific and thus trump the general rules of stacking.

As you quoted:


Enhancement Bonuses

An enhancement bonus makes an armor bonus, natural armor bonus, or a shield bonus better. The enhancement bonus stacks as if it were part of the bonus to which it applies—armor, natural armor, or shield—so it’s not included in the AC formula above.

Eldariel
2009-09-04, 09:36 AM
I think the padding in your armour can be thistledown, and fey/githcraft are from DMG 2.

And only one of the Feycraft/Githcraft Templates can be added. So you need a Spellsword level for Full-Plate.

sofawall
2009-09-04, 09:42 AM
And only one of the Feycraft/Githcraft Templates can be added. So you need a Spellsword level for Full-Plate.

Says who? I see no rule against it, and who says fey and gith can't stop hating each other and decide "Stop! Collaborate, and make it!"

Eldariel
2009-09-04, 09:49 AM
Says who? I see no rule against it, and who says fey and gith can't stop hating each other and decide "Stop! Collaborate, and make it!"

Hm, weird, I distinctly recall reading you can only apply one Template on any single piece of armor or weapon, but now I can't find the line. Bleh, add all of them then. Hell, make the armor simultaneously of Adamantine, Mithril, Glassteel, Oerthblood, Starmetal and Blue Ice while at it.

Curmudgeon
2009-09-04, 10:10 AM
No, it follows the rules of enhancement bonuses you quoted yourself, which are specific and thus trump the general rules of stacking.
Nothing at all is being trumped. That Rules Compendium quote is just a reiteration of the general stacking rule regarding enhancement bonuses as applied to armor.
Enhancement Bonus

An enhancement bonus represents an increase in the sturdiness and/or effectiveness of armor or natural armor, or the effectiveness of a weapon, or a general bonus to an ability score. Multiple enhancement bonuses on the same object (in the case of armor and weapons), creature (in the case of natural armor), or ability score do not stack. Only the highest enhancement bonus applies. There is no "specific" case here.

Starbuck_II
2009-09-04, 10:38 AM
An armor bonus (the robe) and an enhancement bonus to armor (the hat) are different descriptor types; these always stack. There is only one armor bonus involved here; the other is an enhancement bonus.


No, there aren't.
One is a Force armor bonus (the only armor bonus that exists when made by magic thus far). So that is 0 + X. The magic armor bonus improves the robe.

The other is an enhancement bonus to the Hat not to the Robe. Thus Hat is 0 + Y. The enhancement bonus improves the hat.

0+ X does not equal 0 + Y they are seperate.
Only the highest will apply at any given time.

Only real armor can be magically enhanced (exception clothes have AC 0 so if your armor has an AC then it isn't clothes). So you don't add: 0+ X + 0 +Y

You take highest: X or Y (since base AC is 0).

(Psionics has another armor type (Thicken Skin), but magic can't. But lets ignore that headache.)

ericgrau
2009-09-04, 12:35 PM
Celestial armor is the best option I can think of. Better than mithral full plate anyway.

Enhancement bonuses to armor apply to the armor's armor bonus, not directly to your AC. And different armor bonuses don't stack. So if you have +3 full plate and a +5 hat from magic vestment, then those are +11 and a +5 armor bonuses. The +11 is higher so that's all you get. It's not 11+5=16 nor 8 + 5 = 13 (since 5 > 3). The FAQ also confirms this, if that helps. You could however tag someone's armor and shield with magic vestment and get two separate bonuses: one a boosted armor bonus, the other a boosted shield bonus.

PlzBreakMyCmpAn
2009-09-04, 01:03 PM
Clothing is not listed as armor and thus monks do not have to be naked.Oh yes they do... or should be. And have VOP too. And flurry their d*ck to beat enemies into submission. Ah, good times.

Curmudgeon
2009-09-04, 01:12 PM
0+ X does not equal 0 + Y they are seperate.
Only the highest will apply at any given time.
OK, here's my last shot at explaining this, because it doesn't seem to be sinking in. Yes, they are separate bonuses. But they are bonuses of different types, which always stack. That's the way the D&D stacking rules work. Armor bonuses and enhancement bonuses to armor both improve AC, but they are not the same type of bonus, so they cannot conflict. You cannot compare them for the number by which they boost AC, because those numbers are in different categories and thus they add rather than overlap.

ericgrau
2009-09-04, 01:16 PM
As I tried to explain the armor enhancement bonus does not apply directly to your AC at all. It applies to another armor bonus, and that (boosted) armor bonus doesn't stack with your first armor bonus.

So if you have +3 tooth fillings of armor (an enhancement bonus to armor), not only does it not stack with your +1 chain shirt, it gives no added benefit at all since 0 + 3 < 4 + 1; you only get the +5 armor bonus.

Person_Man
2009-09-04, 01:22 PM
Inertial Armor (www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/inertialArmor.htm) + Monk's Belt (www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Monk's_Belt) (AC of 5th level Monk, Wis bonus +1 ) + Animated Shield

That gives you an AC of:

4 + (manifester level -1)/2) + Wisdom bonus (no upper limit) + 1 + 2 + shield enhancement bonus + Dexterity bonus (no upper limit)

Everything applies to Touch AC except for your shield.
Everything applies to your Flat Footed AC except for your Dexterity bonus.

And that's not even counting the other half a dozen other powers that offer various different AC bonuses, DR, temp hit points, hostile empathic transfer, etc.

ericgrau
2009-09-04, 01:36 PM
With an extremely AC focused build it is possible to get higher AC with a monk's belt, but it can't involve any shield. Not even an animated one:



A character with an animated shield still takes any penalties associated with shield use, such as armor check penalty, arcane spell failure chance, and nonproficiency.

Shield or armor negates a monk's belt, so an animated shield does as well.

olentu
2009-09-04, 02:37 PM
OK, here's my last shot at explaining this, because it doesn't seem to be sinking in. Yes, they are separate bonuses. But they are bonuses of different types, which always stack. That's the way the D&D stacking rules work. Armor bonuses and enhancement bonuses to armor both improve AC, but they are not the same type of bonus, so they cannot conflict. You cannot compare them for the number by which they boost AC, because those numbers are in different categories and thus they add rather than overlap.

The enhancement bonus is not being applied directly to the PC or to the PC's AC it is applied to the hat. Now since I am leaving aside the fact that magic vestment on regular clothing really should do nothing since regular clothing does not say that it applies any bonus to AC I am thus going to treat the regular clothing as armor since that is what the spell does. So under the heading armor and shield bonus armor provides a bonus to AC. Now then due to the section that it is filed under I would say that it must be an armor or a shield bonus to AC and will say armor as that is what makes sense. Now if it is to apply at all the enhancement bonus must stack as if it were part of the the bonus to which it applies which would be the armor bonus of the armor as the enhancement bonus is applied to the armor and not to the character. So thus as it stacks as if it were part of an armor bonus it would not stack with anything that does not stack with the armor bonus it is pretending to be a part of.

Edit: I believe that the latest version of glassteel is in champions of valor on page 65.