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oxinabox
2009-09-03, 08:15 AM
I'm looking for charisma based casters to play ans an earth mephing.
Any suggestions?
I want a caster so i can get around the small damage
and cos i haven't played a real caster in a while.
I don't like sorcerer, to me they feel like a wizard but with the best parts removed. (even if that totally not true)

Bards not too bad i guess
Favour soul has terrible Mad, and isn't what i'm going for.

I really like wu jen and duskblade, but both are intbased IIRC.
(i'm not asking for them to be redone it's for a one off game)

kamikasei
2009-09-03, 08:18 AM
Dread Necromancer?
Wilder (for certain values of "caster")?
Warlock?
Binder?

\/ Beguiler is int-based, though they certainly benefit from charisma it doesn't affect their casting.

Eloel
2009-09-03, 08:20 AM
Beguiler? Hexblade?

Sinfire Titan
2009-09-03, 08:36 AM
Beguiler? Hexblade?

As the above poster said, Beguiler is Int based.

Seul Arcanamach, Nar Demonbinder. Best I can think of. If you can get the Summon spells on the Seul's list, you can then multiclass into Nar Demonbinder and get 8th level spells.

oxinabox
2009-09-03, 08:45 AM
Warlock?
Playing one in a difgfernt game.
want somehting with more spells than lvls.

Not wilder, this is a backup plan for is psionics is banned (sortof)
How does binder worK?

BooNL
2009-09-03, 08:47 AM
Favoured Soul isn't that MAD, especially if you focus on blasting.
You can easily dump str, dex and int. Only need max out Wis to help DC values. Plus, they get more spells than sorcerers, or any other spontaneous caster.

Spirit Shaman is in the same boat as the Flavoured (tm) Soul. With the added bonus that he can pick his spells each morning (!). This is a good combination of prepared and spontaneous casting. Only I don't really like the flavor of the class.

kamikasei
2009-09-03, 08:51 AM
How does binder worK?

*cracks knuckles*

They're in Tome of Magic. They're not exactly casters, but they get a bunch of supernatural abilities which run off Charisma. In short, there are these entities called vestiges, which don't exist in any normal way; they're things like the spirits of dead gods with no resting place, or memories of ancient heroes, and so on. Binders form a pact with one or more (as they level) vestiges each day, which gives them access to the vestiges' powers. They're solid but not overpowered, and highly versatile. At the start of each day you draw your seal and negotiate your pact with each vestige (you always succeed in binding the vestige, but there's a check to see whether it can influence your behaviour, and whether you can conceal the visible sign of possession). Once bound, each vestige gives some always-on bonuses, some at-will abilities, and maybe a couple of more powerful abilities with cooldowns (generally once every five rounds).

They're pretty neat.

Irreverent Fool
2009-09-03, 09:13 AM
*cracks knuckles*

They're in Tome of Magic. They're not exactly casters, but they get a bunch of supernatural abilities which run off Charisma. In short, there are these entities called vestiges, which don't exist in any normal way; they're things like the spirits of dead gods with no resting place, or memories of ancient heroes, and so on. Binders form a pact with one or more (as they level) vestiges each day, which gives them access to the vestiges' powers. They're solid but not overpowered, and highly versatile. At the start of each day you draw your seal and negotiate your pact with each vestige (you always succeed in binding the vestige, but there's a check to see whether it can influence your behaviour, and whether you can conceal the visible sign of possession). Once bound, each vestige gives some always-on bonuses, some at-will abilities, and maybe a couple of more powerful abilities with cooldowns (generally once every five rounds).

They suffer somewhat at higher levels due to a lack of more powerful vestiges to choose from. This can be mitigated somewhat by the use of vestiges published in a Dragon magazines or simply working with your DM to discover/create new vestiges.

obnoxious
sig

kamikasei
2009-09-03, 09:17 AM
They suffer somewhat at higher levels due to a lack of vestiges to choose from. This can be mitigated somewhat by the use of vestiges published in a Dragon magazines or simply working with your DM to discover/create new vestiges.

There are a variety online, and some good homebrew. I had assembled a list for an epic Binder I'm applying in another game...

Tome of Magic
Dragon Magic (Ashardalon)

SilverClawShift's homebrew (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3479380&postcount=392)
(Core, Selena, Tevler)

The Mind's Eye (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070119a)
(Arete, The Triad, Abysm)

Class Chronicles (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070718)
(Zceryll)

Cityscape web enhancement (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070307a)
(Astaroth, Desharis)

Design & Development (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20060407a)
(Vanus)

valadil
2009-09-03, 09:36 AM
Have you actually tried playing a sorcerer? On paper they look like slimmed down wizards, but they play out very differently. I like trying to find spells that work 95% of the time instead of spells that win encounters 5% of the time.

peacenlove
2009-09-03, 10:46 AM
The shadowcaster is an OK choice for a charisma caster (weaker than the sorcerer, around warlock power) if
a) you play above 7th level
b) you like stealth and careful foreplanning. Also you aren't fond of "ZOMGd6 damage" but like status effects, ability damage and decent battlefield control, not to mention undispellable potent buffs.
c) You like homebrew. Descent of Shadows (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74519) is the best shadowcaster add-on, and having playtested it for more than a year i heartily reccomend it. He also links most of the noteworthy material in one of his posts.
With little effort, my take on the shadowcaster (linked on my sig, also playtested to death for 1 year :smallbiggrin:) works in 3.5 edititon, however i recommend him only if you aren't satisfied with the power level of the original. However more fixes can be found out there.
d (optional)) you use the class fixes presented by ari marmell (http://www.enworld.org/forum/2957649-post.html) (the creator of the class) should you find no homebrew class of your liking. Again as he points out those fixes are as official as any homebrew out there.
And e) You remove some of the (unfair IMO) inflexibility presented with the class and treat him as a spontaneous caster (allowing you to use runestaves, Versatile spellcaster feat and many good Sorcerer options).

Advertisment end :smallbiggrin:

Doc Roc
2009-09-03, 11:02 AM
Here's my list:

Favored Soul
Sorcerer
Wilder
Nar Demonbinder
Suel Arararararacccamach
Sublime Chord
Bard
Binder
WarMage
Shugenja
Shadowcaster
warlock

I've left a few out, but whatever.

Emy
2009-09-03, 05:05 PM
also, any divine caster with the Dynamic Priest feat from Dragonlance: Legends of the Twins.

oxinabox
2009-09-03, 07:53 PM
i think i might just build a wu jen

TheThan
2009-09-03, 08:20 PM
Have you actually tried playing a sorcerer? On paper they look like slimmed down wizards, but they play out very differently. I like trying to find spells that work 95% of the time instead of spells that win encounters 5% of the time.

yeah, sorcerers as well as bards don't suck as much as the Optimizers tell you they do.

Eldariel
2009-09-03, 08:36 PM
yeah, sorcerers as well as bards don't suck as much as the Optimizers tell you they do.

Which optimizers tell you they suck? The only case of suckitude in Sorcerer's case is that it's a worse Wizard...which is not a bad place to be at given how awesome Wizards are. The only real problem with Sorcerers is that for some inexplicable reason, they get spell levels 1 level slower than the Wizard; otherwise the advantages somewhat cancel each other out (though Sorcerer is obviously more item reliant to keep his versatility).

And Bards are stated to suck in Core-only because they can't really do anything that well there; obviously they are awesome with even just Completes, let alone Eberron Campaign Settings.

wizuriel
2009-09-03, 09:20 PM
If you want a fun class I would also recommend the binder or shadowcaster from tome of magic.

Though the shadowcaster really needs the fixes posted earlier in the thread (never tried the homebrew stuff)

quick_comment
2009-09-03, 09:36 PM
yeah, sorcerers as well as bards don't suck as much as the Optimizers tell you they do.

I much prefer sorcerers to wizards. They are much easier to manage because you dont need to prepare a spell list every day, add spells to your spellbook, etc. You just wake up and go.


Really, the small number of spells is not a huge problem. Get a runestaff with your daily buffs on it.

oxinabox
2009-09-04, 12:22 AM
I like preparing my spells each day.
If i wanted to be optimum, i woulddo something stupid,
like whitedragonspawn loredrake sorcerer.

What's warmage like?

sofawall
2009-09-04, 12:27 AM
White Dragonspawn Loredrake Dragonwrought Greater Draconic Rite of Passage Sorcerer is not optimal, by the way.

Pun-Pun beats it by a fair margin.

Akal Saris
2009-09-04, 12:30 AM
Warmage is pretty lame - you basically have a ton of evocation spells that you can choose from at will, but you can't learn anything else, and your class features don't really help you do much more damage after 4th level or so.

I'd recommend dread necromancer from Heroes of Horror personally - it's like the warmage but as a necromancer (duh!), and the spells/abilities are much cooler and useful.

Doc Roc
2009-09-04, 01:21 AM
White Dragonspawn Loredrake Dragonwrought Greater Draconic Rite of Passage Sorcerer is not optimal, by the way.

Pun-Pun beats it by a fair margin.

:: cracks knuckles :: grins ::

Pun-Pun ain't the only thing.... :)